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Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early?

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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#81 » by dougthonus » Fri Jun 4, 2021 7:45 pm

TheJordanRule wrote:Those of you, like ArtMorte, who thought it would be best to keep him have been undeniably proven right by time. On the other hand, Cam Payne’s ascent may have been aided by things like mentorship from Chris Paul, a more clearly defined role with his new team, and playing time he wouldn’t have received with us. It’s fun to wonder what Cam Payne would have looked like on our roster, but I’m not grieving over his loss because he looked like such trash here most of the time.


It may also be aided by Cam Payne needing to grind due to disappointment and having his career in the NBA in jeopardy.

It's not like Cam Payne is a superstar now either, through whatever life lessons he's learned, he's developed into a solid backup PG who will probably stick in the league for awhile and has good value. Almost every team probably had 3-5 guys at any point in time that were on their roster as a 10-15 guy that they moved on from that elevated themselves into a 5-10 guy later with someone else because they worked hard / got a different opportunity.

You simply can't spend your life worrying about all the guys who eventually get better somewhere else. If you have a ton of young guys that's just going to happen.

Payne will be a FA this summer and sign a market value deal, at which point, will you still care about Cam Payne if he's making 4/60 or 4/40 or whatever market value is? Probably not.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#82 » by meekrab » Fri Jun 4, 2021 7:45 pm

PlayerUp wrote:Reality is Gar/Pax had 0 clue what they were doing at the PG position. They got lucky with Rose. Outside of Rose, they passed on so many talented PGs mainly for an abundance of low ceiling bigman.

They got stuck in a crappy situation when Rose got hurt; do you sign stop-gap guys and hope he comes back 100%, or do you sign a real player around the MLE and have questions in the locker room about who's the #1? And obviously they chose the Nate Robinsons and DJ Augustins of the world over having any question that Derrick is the guy.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#83 » by HomoSapien » Fri Jun 4, 2021 9:33 pm

Honestly, if we're talking about guys we maybe gave up on too soon why not mention Bobby Portis? He's having a better season than Payne and also doing it on a contender.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#84 » by mj234eva » Fri Jun 4, 2021 9:41 pm

I stopped watching Bulls games due to how bad his play was.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#85 » by Michael Jackson » Fri Jun 4, 2021 9:53 pm

HomoSapien wrote:Honestly, if we're talking about guys we maybe gave up on too soon why not mention Bobby Portis? He's having a better season than Payne and also doing it on a contender.



just like Paynbe though his best fit wasn't on the Bulls. He is absolutely perfect in his role for the Bucks. It can be argued that maybe we should have given up on Bobby sooner and kept Mirotic happy instead of making him run back to Europe with his tail tucked between his legs..
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#86 » by Kurt Heimlich » Fri Jun 4, 2021 10:01 pm

The bulls issue since april 28 2012 or maybe (more arguably) draft night 2017 is that we lack the game changing superstar at the top. Weve had plenty of nice young role players who could flourish on good teams who have established superstars cycle through here over these down years.

But cam Payne had some of the most hilariously pathetic highlights I've seen in my years as a bulls fan. Honestly good for him finding his niche, but I certainly dont long for missing out on prime cam payne.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#87 » by donaldtrump_00 » Fri Jun 4, 2021 10:07 pm

pipfan wrote:He was one of my least favorite Bulls of all time. So many things not to like.

I don't care if he becomes a stud-he was terrible when he was here, and he seemed like a punk too



Or maybe having our front office publicly stating "he's not a NBA player " has something to do with his stay in Chicago. I always liked him and thought he has a good offensive skill set. Another misused bulls player who found life after leaving our hell. Who's fought is it that we have idiots running or used to have them running our ball club. Spencer Dinwiddie was the biggest let down. I was obsessively happy when we had him. I knew he was a very good player. He chewed d.rose up that year. I've kept a close eye on him since. But we rather trade snell for Michael Carter Williams. Nothing surprises me. I wanna see if we have enough sense to get Dunn back while he's rotting in Atlanta. But something tells me where sold on temple.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#88 » by HomoSapien » Fri Jun 4, 2021 10:07 pm

Michael Jackson wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:Honestly, if we're talking about guys we maybe gave up on too soon why not mention Bobby Portis? He's having a better season than Payne and also doing it on a contender.



just like Paynbe though his best fit wasn't on the Bulls. He is absolutely perfect in his role for the Bucks. It can be argued that maybe we should have given up on Bobby sooner and kept Mirotic happy instead of making him run back to Europe with his tail tucked between his legs..


Certainly a fair point. I just meant, if we're talking about young former Bulls, Payne's not even the one that's playing the best. Heck, even McDermott played better than him and he was involved in that trade.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#89 » by Michael Jackson » Fri Jun 4, 2021 10:14 pm

HomoSapien wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:Honestly, if we're talking about guys we maybe gave up on too soon why not mention Bobby Portis? He's having a better season than Payne and also doing it on a contender.



just like Paynbe though his best fit wasn't on the Bulls. He is absolutely perfect in his role for the Bucks. It can be argued that maybe we should have given up on Bobby sooner and kept Mirotic happy instead of making him run back to Europe with his tail tucked between his legs..


Certainly a fair point. I just meant, if we're talking about young former Bulls, Payne's not even the one that's playing the best. Heck, even McDermott played better than him and he was involved in that trade.



Well we can list a good number of players too.. Butler, hell even Rose is better now than when he left, Dinwiddie, Gafford lol most every player that leaves looks better... Maybe there is something to that. Hoiberg I blame you!
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#90 » by HomoSapien » Fri Jun 4, 2021 10:17 pm

Michael Jackson wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
Michael Jackson wrote:

just like Paynbe though his best fit wasn't on the Bulls. He is absolutely perfect in his role for the Bucks. It can be argued that maybe we should have given up on Bobby sooner and kept Mirotic happy instead of making him run back to Europe with his tail tucked between his legs..


Certainly a fair point. I just meant, if we're talking about young former Bulls, Payne's not even the one that's playing the best. Heck, even McDermott played better than him and he was involved in that trade.



Well we can list a good number of players too.. Butler, hell even Rose is better now than when he left, Dinwiddie, Gafford lol most every player that leaves looks better... Maybe there is something to that. Hoiberg I blame you!


I've played this game before. If you decide to make a roster with ex-Bulls that are currently still in the NBA it can make your heart hurt.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#91 » by Axl Rose » Fri Jun 4, 2021 11:01 pm

No because there is no way he would have progressed like this under Jim Boylen.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#92 » by PlayerUp » Sat Jun 5, 2021 3:23 am

HomoSapien wrote:Honestly, if we're talking about guys we maybe gave up on too soon why not mention Bobby Portis? He's having a better season than Payne and also doing it on a contender.


It's the system for Portis. He's always been a low/medium ceiling player. Quality role player on offense who is below average at best defensively. Him shining in Milwaukee efficiently is primarily due to the players surrounding him. Bring him back to Chicago and those efficiency numbers more likely than not drop.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#93 » by Mbrahv0528 » Sat Jun 5, 2021 4:51 am

donaldtrump_00 wrote:
pipfan wrote:He was one of my least favorite Bulls of all time. So many things not to like.

I don't care if he becomes a stud-he was terrible when he was here, and he seemed like a punk too



Or maybe having our front office publicly stating "he's not a NBA player " has something to do with his stay in Chicago. I always liked him and thought he has a good offensive skill set. Another misused bulls player who found life after leaving our hell. Who's fought is it that we have idiots running or used to have them running our ball club. Spencer Dinwiddie was the biggest let down. I was obsessively happy when we had him. I knew he was a very good player. He chewed d.rose up that year. I've kept a close eye on him since. But we rather trade snell for Michael Carter Williams. Nothing surprises me. I wanna see if we have enough sense to get Dunn back while he's rotting in Atlanta. But something tells me where sold on temple.
Bring back Dunn for what exactly?

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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#94 » by Am2626 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 1:40 am

HomoSapien wrote:Honestly, if we're talking about guys we maybe gave up on too soon why not mention Bobby Portis? He's having a better season than Payne and also doing it on a contender.


Both teams are contenders. If anything Phoenix looks like they may advance further this year. Regarding Cam Payne no chance he gets to this level playing on this Bulls team. CP3 has played a major role in his development.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#95 » by GimmeDat » Sun Jun 6, 2021 8:29 am

Payne's been really good this season, not just the playoffs.

With that said,we gave him ample opportunity here and he did not look good at all.

I remember being pretty happy with the trade and talking up Payne's prospects when we first got him. Felt like a bit of egg on my face when he was as bad as he was. I felt after we moved on from him he was a good prospect that fell off due to the injuries he sustained his first few years.. he lost the quickness that really set him apart as a college player.

So with all that said, I'm not tooooo surprised he's doing well - I felt he was a good prospect once upon a time. But people bemoaned his presence (rightfully) on this team for ages.. hindsight is a b* but we did the right thing based on what we got out of him. And ultimately, I don't think the player we've missed out on is worth crying over.. he's a good player but not a building block or anything. As someone else said, Dinwiddie is the sort of level guy you kick yourself for more.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#96 » by Devinpo » Sun Jun 6, 2021 12:34 pm

HomoSapien wrote:If we're talking about point guards we let go too early, then DJ Augustin should be on this list. He actually won us games, was young at the time, and would still be an important veteran presence on our current squad.


Yea man he literally saved the season because marquis teague is deff the worst pg I have ever seen
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#97 » by sco » Sun Jun 6, 2021 12:47 pm

HomoSapien wrote:Honestly, if we're talking about guys we maybe gave up on too soon why not mention Bobby Portis? He's having a better season than Payne and also doing it on a contender.

Bobby is, and has always been a good back-up, offensive-minded backup PF/C. At the time, he saw himself as a starter and wanted starting dough too. That was never gonna work. I think he eventually embraced a bench role.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#98 » by HomoSapien » Sun Jun 6, 2021 10:11 pm

Am2626 wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:Honestly, if we're talking about guys we maybe gave up on too soon why not mention Bobby Portis? He's having a better season than Payne and also doing it on a contender.


Both teams are contenders. If anything Phoenix looks like they may advance further this year. Regarding Cam Payne no chance he gets to this level playing on this Bulls team. CP3 has played a major role in his development.


You're misreading my wording. I'm not saying that the Suns arent' a contender. To rephrase, I'm saying Portis is also having an incredible season on a contender yet not getting the same level of props that Payne has been getting over the course of the season.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#99 » by dougthonus » Sun Jun 6, 2021 11:23 pm

HomoSapien wrote:I've played this game before. If you decide to make a roster with ex-Bulls that are currently still in the NBA it can make your heart hurt.


Really?

PG: Rose, Payne, Dinwiddie, Rondo
SG: McDermott, Snell
SF: Butler
PF: Lauri (in a few months), Johnson
C: Gafford, Carter, Lopez, Taj

Am I missing someone meaningful? I feel like I must be, but it doesn't occur to me whom it would be off the top of my head.

I mean it really comes down to giving up Butler, whom we ended up receiving a younger, more explosive scoring, all-star back for. Even if you think Butler is better than LaVine over the next four years (which I'd be skeptical of, though he was certainly better over the previous three), you have to call it a win when you trade a non super star player and get a younger all-star back for him.

The rest of these guys are just spare parts that we swapped out for different spare parts.
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Re: Did we give up on Cameron Payne too early? 

Post#100 » by HomoSapien » Sun Jun 6, 2021 11:43 pm

dougthonus wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:I've played this game before. If you decide to make a roster with ex-Bulls that are currently still in the NBA it can make your heart hurt.


Really?

PG: Rose, Payne, Dinwiddie, Rondo
SG: McDermott, Snell
SF: Butler
PF: Lauri (in a few months), Johnson
C: Gafford, Carter, Lopez, Taj

Am I missing someone meaningful? I feel like I must be, but it doesn't occur to me whom it would be off the top of my head.

I mean it really comes down to giving up Butler, whom we ended up receiving a younger, more explosive scoring, all-star back for. Even if you think Butler is better than LaVine over the next four years (which I'd be skeptical of, though he was certainly better over the previous three), you have to call it a win when you trade a non super star player and get a younger all-star back for him.

The rest of these guys are just spare parts that we swapped out for different spare parts.


PG. Rose/Rondo/Augustin
SG.Dinwiddie/Holiday/Moore
SF.Butler/McDermott/Nwaba
PF.Mirotic/Portis
C. Lopez/Taj/Gafford

This opinion looks worse this year than it did a year ago since Rondo and Dinwiddie in general had non-impact years. I'm cheating by counting Mirotic, but I'll count him since he's not retired. Not a spectacular team, but one that I think would've probably been a very solid playoff team and based on where we've been that last few seasons I'd be pretty happy with that.
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