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Jamal Murray

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Jamal Murray 

Post#1 » by Ugly Duckling » Tue Sep 1, 2020 12:08 am

I remember when we drafted Coby, some of you were comparing him to Murray. I don't know how accurate of a comparison that is as Murray is a smooth player. But they are both scoring combo guards and the way Murray's playing rn is further evidence that maybe a traditional PG isn't needed. Maybe Coby could be our PG of the future and we could use this pick on a wing or frontcourt player
mudsak wrote:Watching Kawhi plow through the playoffs like the most stoic gangster to walk the earth has been one of the most epic things I've watched in a while.
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Re: Jamal Murray 

Post#2 » by Just_Bullz » Tue Sep 1, 2020 12:20 am

Coby can be the player Jamal is in my opinion. He's moving in the right direction.
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Re: Jamal Murray 

Post#3 » by Clint Eastwood » Tue Sep 1, 2020 12:22 am

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Re: Jamal Murray 

Post#4 » by thedarkstark » Tue Sep 1, 2020 12:25 am

I mean they're both pretty inconsistent, I don't really think it's a stretch to say that they're already pretty close. Coby had his 30+ point outbursts off the bench just as Murray is having 50 point outbursts as a starter, but on a given night he's more likely to hover near his regular season average 18ppg.

It's easy to look at what Murray is doing right now and forget about his larger body of work but next year he's going to go right back to being MIA some nights and explosive others.
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Re: Jamal Murray 

Post#5 » by JohnnyTapwater » Tue Sep 1, 2020 12:36 am

Coby is cold...

Jamal has a 3 year head start and I still see the comparison.

Can't wait.
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Re: Jamal Murray 

Post#6 » by dice » Tue Sep 1, 2020 12:49 am

thedarkstark wrote:I mean they're both pretty inconsistent, I don't really think it's a stretch to say that they're already pretty close. Coby had his 30+ point outbursts off the bench just as Murray is having 50 point outbursts as a starter, but on a given night he's more likely to hover near his regular season average 18ppg.

It's easy to look at what Murray is doing right now and forget about his larger body of work but next year he's going to go right back to being MIA some nights and explosive others.

murray just had the biggest 3 game playoff scoring outburst since MJ in '88...at age 22. could just be a freak occurrence, but i think it's his coming out party...like derrick rose's rookie playoff series against the celtics
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Re: Jamal Murray 

Post#7 » by thedarkstark » Tue Sep 1, 2020 12:54 am

dice wrote:
thedarkstark wrote:I mean they're both pretty inconsistent, I don't really think it's a stretch to say that they're already pretty close. Coby had his 30+ point outbursts off the bench just as Murray is having 50 point outbursts as a starter, but on a given night he's more likely to hover near his regular season average 18ppg.

It's easy to look at what Murray is doing right now and forget about his larger body of work but next year he's going to go right back to being MIA some nights and explosive others.

murray just had the biggest 3 game playoff scoring outburst since MJ in '88...at age 22. could just be a freak occurrence, but i think it's his coming out party...like derrick rose's rookie playoff series against the celtics

Could be and I'm not trying to discredit Murray because I actually like him as a player he's really good at picking his spots and taking what the defense gives him. Obviously playoffs is a different animal but didn't Coby set some kind of record with his back-to-back-to-back 30 point games?

My point is just that a small sample size is a small sample size, trying to extrapolate a 3 game stretch over 82 usually doesn't work out too well.
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Re: Jamal Murray 

Post#8 » by dice » Tue Sep 1, 2020 12:56 am

thedarkstark wrote:
dice wrote:
thedarkstark wrote:I mean they're both pretty inconsistent, I don't really think it's a stretch to say that they're already pretty close. Coby had his 30+ point outbursts off the bench just as Murray is having 50 point outbursts as a starter, but on a given night he's more likely to hover near his regular season average 18ppg.

It's easy to look at what Murray is doing right now and forget about his larger body of work but next year he's going to go right back to being MIA some nights and explosive others.

murray just had the biggest 3 game playoff scoring outburst since MJ in '88...at age 22. could just be a freak occurrence, but i think it's his coming out party...like derrick rose's rookie playoff series against the celtics

Could be and I'm not trying to discredit Murray because I actually like him as a player he's really good at picking his spots and taking what the defense gives him. Obviously playoffs is a different animal but didn't Coby set some kind of record with his back-to-back-to-back 30 point games?

My point is just that a small sample size is a small sample size, trying to extrapolate a 3 game stretch over 82 usually doesn't work out too well.

yeah, but the playoffs is a different animal. granted, it's in the orlano (no 'd') bubble, but still
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Re: Jamal Murray 

Post#9 » by ImSlower » Tue Sep 1, 2020 1:02 am

I mentioned it in another thread that I have a bit of optimism that Coby/Zach could work as a tandem if they really try to adapt to each other's strengths. I saw flashes of Coby as our future main ball handler, with Zach doing a lot of slashing and backdoor cuts.

Maybe our future head coach can play Coby/Zach/Otto/Lauri/Wendell and make it work. If each of those guys simply played at a level they realistically were expected to, it's a fine lineup. If they take steps forward together, it could be really entertaining.
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Re: Jamal Murray 

Post#10 » by Ugly Duckling » Tue Sep 1, 2020 5:13 pm

dice wrote:
thedarkstark wrote:I mean they're both pretty inconsistent, I don't really think it's a stretch to say that they're already pretty close. Coby had his 30+ point outbursts off the bench just as Murray is having 50 point outbursts as a starter, but on a given night he's more likely to hover near his regular season average 18ppg.

It's easy to look at what Murray is doing right now and forget about his larger body of work but next year he's going to go right back to being MIA some nights and explosive others.

murray just had the biggest 3 game playoff scoring outburst since MJ in '88...at age 22. could just be a freak occurrence, but i think it's his coming out party...like derrick rose's rookie playoff series against the celtics


Dang dice you're speaking positively about Rose? Never thought I'd see the day. Glad to see it :D
mudsak wrote:Watching Kawhi plow through the playoffs like the most stoic gangster to walk the earth has been one of the most epic things I've watched in a while.
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Re: Jamal Murray 

Post#11 » by Ugly Duckling » Tue Sep 1, 2020 5:16 pm

ImSlower wrote:I mentioned it in another thread that I have a bit of optimism that Coby/Zach could work as a tandem if they really try to adapt to each other's strengths. I saw flashes of Coby as our future main ball handler, with Zach doing a lot of slashing and backdoor cuts.

Maybe our future head coach can play Coby/Zach/Otto/Lauri/Wendell and make it work. If each of those guys simply played at a level they realistically were expected to, it's a fine lineup. If they take steps forward together, it could be really entertaining.


It's good to know that others are feeling the same way. I think Denver is successful because they have another distributer in Joker, which we'd need at another position to make the Coby lineup work. I've all but given up on Markkanen, but I'm still holding out a little hope that Arturas gets through to him
mudsak wrote:Watching Kawhi plow through the playoffs like the most stoic gangster to walk the earth has been one of the most epic things I've watched in a while.
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Re: Jamal Murray 

Post#12 » by MrSparkle » Tue Sep 1, 2020 5:26 pm

Said it the other thread, but check out their rookie year comparison:

https://stathead.com/tiny/y8k9b

There's less than a 1% difference in every single advanced stat. It's kind of creepy actually.
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Re: Jamal Murray 

Post#13 » by FriedRise » Tue Sep 1, 2020 5:28 pm

Well, Denver can afford having a non-traditional PG who averages less than 5 apg because they have Jokic who's usually their primary playmaker. We kinda(?) have a poor man's version of Jokic in Wendell, but we never really got to find out because Boyball banned Wendell from ever running plays and/or shooting. And we've seen flashes of Wendell's playmaking and passing ability before Boylen took over.

The scoring mentality is definitely there though. I don't see a reason why Coby can't match Murray's output. Their rookie year numbers look pretty similar (Murray wasn't that efficient either in Year 1), and I assume Coby will only get better after he goes through the rookie wall, sophomore slump, etc. and acclimates to the NBA.
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Re: Jamal Murray 

Post#14 » by Ugly Duckling » Tue Sep 1, 2020 6:10 pm

MrSparkle wrote:Said it the other thread, but check out their rookie year comparison:

https://stathead.com/tiny/y8k9b

There's less than a 1% difference in every single advanced stat. It's kind of creepy actually.


Wow that is pretty uncanny. The only significant difference was at the line. Murray was a bit better there and in terms of blocks, but Coby was ever so slightly better from beyond the arc and in assists, which is encouraging as Murray has improved his passing
mudsak wrote:Watching Kawhi plow through the playoffs like the most stoic gangster to walk the earth has been one of the most epic things I've watched in a while.
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Re: Jamal Murray 

Post#15 » by Dieselbound&Down » Tue Sep 1, 2020 6:29 pm

It's encouraging as a fan to see so many new scorers coming out. I haven't watched a huge amount of games over the past few years so maybe this is old news to some but the injection of new names, franchises with a fresh direction and legitimate difference makers in the playoffs and hopefully the league in coming years more fun to watch.
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Re: Jamal Murray 

Post#16 » by Dieselbound&Down » Tue Sep 1, 2020 6:33 pm

2020 breakout crew

Rookie - Coby White
Year 2 - Doncic
Year 3 - Jamal Murray
Year 4 - Brandon Ingram
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Re: Jamal Murray 

Post#17 » by dice » Tue Sep 1, 2020 6:56 pm

Ugly Duckling wrote:
dice wrote:
thedarkstark wrote:I mean they're both pretty inconsistent, I don't really think it's a stretch to say that they're already pretty close. Coby had his 30+ point outbursts off the bench just as Murray is having 50 point outbursts as a starter, but on a given night he's more likely to hover near his regular season average 18ppg.

It's easy to look at what Murray is doing right now and forget about his larger body of work but next year he's going to go right back to being MIA some nights and explosive others.

murray just had the biggest 3 game playoff scoring outburst since MJ in '88...at age 22. could just be a freak occurrence, but i think it's his coming out party...like derrick rose's rookie playoff series against the celtics


Dang dice you're speaking positively about Rose? Never thought I'd see the day. Glad to see it :D

i don't think i've ever been particularly negative about derrick other than regarding his dragged-out injury comeback
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Re: Jamal Murray 

Post#18 » by kodo » Tue Sep 1, 2020 7:33 pm

FriedRise wrote:Well, Denver can afford having a non-traditional PG who averages less than 5 apg because they have Jokic who's usually their primary playmaker....


It's not just DEN. None of Milwaukee, Lakers, Clippers, or Boston in addition to Denver have a PG who averages more than 5 APG. Those are top 3 seeds in both conferences with only TOR having PGs with 6+ APG. Which makes sense to run their offense this way given the strength of TOR's team is in their PGs.

Several of those teams have stars who have a hand in running the offense, and Chicago will need one as well. Getting a roleplayer PG who does all the passing isn't going to improve Chicago, our problem is not having a star.
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Re: Jamal Murray 

Post#19 » by coldfish » Tue Sep 1, 2020 7:45 pm

This is somewhat related.

The traditional PG is dead. Every person on the court should be able to handle the ball, shoot and be a willing passer. Maybe you can have a defensive only big but even that would be a concern. If you have a PG who can't score or shoot, he is a liability.

The idea of a PG who comes down the court and distributes the ball to people standing in their preferred spots is extraordinarily antiquated.
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Re: Jamal Murray 

Post#20 » by Dieselbound&Down » Tue Sep 1, 2020 8:10 pm

coldfish wrote:This is somewhat related.

The traditional PG is dead. Every person on the court should be able to handle the ball, shoot and be a willing passer. Maybe you can have a defensive only big but even that would be a concern. If you have a PG who can't score or shoot, he is a liability.

The idea of a PG who comes down the court and distributes the ball to people standing in their preferred spots is extraordinarily antiquated.


I listened to a recent podcast with Bill Simmons who talked about watching a game recently with Steve Nash, one of their big playoff losses, and his comment was "I really should have shot more." It was a given for so long that point guards needed to be Cousy and poor mans point guards needed to be John Paxson. The outliers, like World B Free, Machmoud Abdul Rauf and the like were seen as inferior players to build a team around than a Rod Strickland, let alone a Scott Skiles.

You are right that there are no longer such compartmentalized roles for each position. Everyone is expected to space, handle the ball, etc.

I was talking about this with my brother recently. In high school a long time ago my coach (awful) had incredibly specific roles for each position. Very set plays. Set defenses and, regardless of the players on the floor, the players had no flexibility both on offense and defense. When I grew a lot and, in order to get the best players on the floor, they moved me to center, I was stuck on the block for huge chunks of the game even though I did not really have a post game. I was a point guard 2 years before. Nowadays, if I had a big slow guy on me I would get the ball on the wing and given free run to drive. In hindsight, it seems absurd that my coach refused to acknowledge match ups or tilt the floor in favor of getting the best shots, no matter where they came from.

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