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who do you NOT want in this draft?

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Who do you NOT want in this draft?

Anthony Edwards
1
1%
James Wiseman
9
9%
Lamelo Ball
38
39%
Deni Adjiva
12
12%
Obi Toppin
19
19%
Killian Hayes
8
8%
Onyeka Okongwu
4
4%
Tyrese Haliburton
4
4%
Devin Vassel
0
No votes
Cole Anthony
3
3%
 
Total votes: 98

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Re: who do you NOT want in this draft? 

Post#21 » by Jvaughn » Tue Sep 1, 2020 3:40 pm

nitetrain8603 wrote:
Jvaughn wrote:I'm strongly against Toppin. Strongly dislike bigs who don't rebound and play defense. I see bust written all over him. And as I stated in the other thread, for those who bash Lauri, they're going to quickly find out Obi has the same issues, except he can dunk the ball well.

Not a huge fan of Cole Anthony either, but there's not really any chance we reach for him at 4, so I don't really have any string feelings towards him. Was a bit disappointed in UNC's play this year, but can't really blame that on Anthony. He may have looked better on a better team.


I see Derrick Williams all over again with Toppin. Or Aaron Gordon. I think if you plan on bringing him in as an energy bench player, he can do that, but not much else.

Cole Anthony in the late lottery could make sense. I'm not a fan of Deni at anything higher than 7.


Yeah I can definitely see the Derrick Williams comps. Honestly Aaron Gordon is still a better prospect because of his defensive effort. That's one of Toppin's biggest weaknesses. He's an awful defender on the perimeter and in the paint.

Cole Anthony may have been a decent get had we not jumped in the draft. My only concern would be his redundancy with Coby. We disagree on Deni. I'm a huge fan, and am really hoping for him at 4. I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I think he's going to end up being the best player in this draft.
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Re: who do you NOT want in this draft? 

Post#22 » by dougthonus » Tue Sep 1, 2020 3:52 pm

Jvaughn wrote:Lauri struggles on defense and rebounding. In addition to that he has a tendency to give poor effort and disappear for long lapses of time. Yes, he has Lauri on the athletic side by leaps and bounds, but that's only going to help him if we either a) sign some pass first PG who is going to be setting the table for his every shot or b) he becomes some great 1 on 1 dynamo who we can run the offense through. The chances are that Lauri would do just as well with option A or that with a better coach we instill a system that allows Lauri to improve with option B.


I don't think athleticism only helps you if you have a pass first PG. That seems really odd to me, I think athleticism limits the need to have an amazing PG to pass for him, because he can generate more room on his own. I also don't think you need to be a dynamo that you can runt he offense through, being athletic enough to generate more breaks, get back on defense, and occasionally kill your guy off the dribble still creates a lot of value.

Uber athletic Lauri sounds like a bad ass to me.

He may have some of the same results as Lauri in terms of defense/rebounding, but the reasons he has them are very different, the things he has to do to fix them are very different, and thus, I wouldn't predict much similarity in the risks/rewards etc..
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Re: who do you NOT want in this draft? 

Post#23 » by Vince Strong » Tue Sep 1, 2020 4:03 pm

A bust
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Re: who do you NOT want in this draft? 

Post#24 » by Jvaughn » Tue Sep 1, 2020 4:14 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Jvaughn wrote:Lauri struggles on defense and rebounding. In addition to that he has a tendency to give poor effort and disappear for long lapses of time. Yes, he has Lauri on the athletic side by leaps and bounds, but that's only going to help him if we either a) sign some pass first PG who is going to be setting the table for his every shot or b) he becomes some great 1 on 1 dynamo who we can run the offense through. The chances are that Lauri would do just as well with option A or that with a better coach we instill a system that allows Lauri to improve with option B.


I don't think athleticism only helps you if you have a pass first PG. That seems really odd to me, I think athleticism limits the need to have an amazing PG to pass for him, because he can generate more room on his own. I also don't think you need to be a dynamo that you can runt he offense through, being athletic enough to generate more breaks, get back on defense, and occasionally kill your guy off the dribble still creates a lot of value.

Uber athletic Lauri sounds like a bad ass to me.

He may have some of the same results as Lauri in terms of defense/rebounding, but the reasons he has them are very different, the things he has to do to fix them are very different, and thus, I wouldn't predict much similarity in the risks/rewards etc..


I'm saying I don't see any reason to believe Obi will have the ball skills to utilize said athleticism. I don't see him projecting to be someone that will be able to generate their own offense at the next level. There's raw athleticism and then there is functional athleticism. I believe Obi falls in the former category. The league is full of big athletic players who are completely dependent on others to get their offense going.

Normally these players can find their niche as long as they can also provide something on the defensive side. Toppin doesn't do this. This is because of a combination of bad fundamentals and lazy play. Now he could very well improve on both of these, but I don't see it.
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Re: who do you NOT want in this draft? 

Post#25 » by pipfan » Tue Sep 1, 2020 4:25 pm

It's only Ball for me-I have to like our players, and he just seems like a punk
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Re: who do you NOT want in this draft? 

Post#26 » by Little Nathan » Tue Sep 1, 2020 4:28 pm

Man, people really don't like LaMelo. Guess it won't matter because he will go top 3, but I would be ecstatic if we drafted him.

I don't want to see us picking one of the bigs, for reasons that have already been mentioned. Love OO, but not at 4. Hope the Wizards take him at 9, that would be a nice fit.
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Re: who do you NOT want in this draft? 

Post#27 » by waffle » Tue Sep 1, 2020 4:34 pm

Put me down for Toppin

The history of players LIKE him, the history of players coming into the league at 22, suggests DANGER

Howevah

Getting someone who might be productive day 1? Means you are getting their prime years before they hit that next contract rather than hoping they develop over, say the first 2 or 3.... is rather attractive
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Re: who do you NOT want in this draft? 

Post#28 » by Southpaw » Tue Sep 1, 2020 4:40 pm

Any of the bigs and maybe Ball, tho I can talk myself into liking Ball and Wiseman if we draft them because they have very high ceilings.
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Re: who do you NOT want in this draft? 

Post#29 » by BullsFTW » Tue Sep 1, 2020 5:02 pm

Do not want Toppin.
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Re: who do you NOT want in this draft? 

Post#30 » by dougthonus » Tue Sep 1, 2020 5:08 pm

Jvaughn wrote:I'm saying I don't see any reason to believe Obi will have the ball skills to utilize said athleticism. I don't see him projecting to be someone that will be able to generate their own offense at the next level. There's raw athleticism and then there is functional athleticism. I believe Obi falls in the former category. The league is full of big athletic players who are completely dependent on others to get their offense going.

Normally these players can find their niche as long as they can also provide something on the defensive side. Toppin doesn't do this. This is because of a combination of bad fundamentals and lazy play. Now he could very well improve on both of these, but I don't see it.


Probably like Lauri, but perhaps better, he is a guy who can shoot 3s, then kill you on a pump fake and drive. I think that's what you'd see from Toppin in the short term.

Agree there are concerns with Toppin, I'm not sold on him or anything, just don't think Lauri is a meaningful comparison.
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Re: who do you NOT want in this draft? 

Post#31 » by League Circles » Tue Sep 1, 2020 5:10 pm

The available players.
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Re: who do you NOT want in this draft? 

Post#32 » by dougthonus » Tue Sep 1, 2020 5:28 pm

The irony of this topic is that debating who sucks the most is probably more of a hot topic than who is actually the best, given that its hard to feel really strongly positive about any of these guys.
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Re: who do you NOT want in this draft? 

Post#33 » by Jvaughn » Tue Sep 1, 2020 5:46 pm

dougthonus wrote:The irony of this topic is that debating who sucks the most is probably more of a hot topic than who is actually the best, given that its hard to feel really strongly positive about any of these guys.


Very rough draft like 2013, but we got some all-stars and near all-stars out of that draft still. Definitely hoping AK can make a nice little splash with his first draft here.
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Re: who do you NOT want in this draft? 

Post#34 » by Rose2Boozer » Tue Sep 1, 2020 8:02 pm

Tyrese Haliburton. We can do better than a fourth guard with the fourth pick.
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Re: who do you NOT want in this draft? 

Post#35 » by TeamMan » Wed Sep 2, 2020 1:24 am

Jvaughn wrote:
dougthonus wrote:The irony of this topic is that debating who sucks the most is probably more of a hot topic than who is actually the best, given that its hard to feel really strongly positive about any of these guys.


Very rough draft like 2013, but we got some all-stars and near all-stars out of that draft still. Definitely hoping AK can make a nice little splash with his first draft here.

IMO part of the reason that he got the job was because he's demonstrated that he's an outstanding talent evaluator.

And he also understands the significance of chemistry.

With the #4 pick he'll be in a good position to work to improve both things for the Bulls in the same draft.

It will be a great 1st test to see how he's going to run the team.
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Re: who do you NOT want in this draft? 

Post#36 » by Charlesareed » Wed Sep 2, 2020 3:49 am

Mark K wrote:Wiseman and Toppin seem like such GarPax picks so definitely not them.




I’d honestly love to draft both these guys while trading away wcj lurie and Lavine keep Otto or try to sign Ingram from NO
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Re: who do you NOT want in this draft? 

Post#37 » by dougthonus » Wed Sep 2, 2020 10:35 am

Mark K wrote:Wiseman and Toppin seem like such GarPax picks so definitely not them.


Quite honestly not sure what feels remotely GarPax about either of these guys.

Toppin's big knock is he's lazy with his upside being his athleticism. That seems the antithesis of a GarPax pick. I can't see why Wiseman is related to anything they've done ever.

Not an endorsement of either guy though.
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Re: who do you NOT want in this draft? 

Post#38 » by Ugly Duckling » Wed Sep 2, 2020 2:34 pm

kodo wrote:Toppin's player type is tough for the modern NBA. A one position old school PF who doesn't defend well, can't play SF due to not being a perimeter player at all and can't play the 5 due to lack of rim protection and defense. Pros are that he's very athletic, good in the low post and P&R. Will enter the league at 22. This is David Lee almost exactly, with some set shot 3's added.

Now David Lee was a 2x all-star and 1x All-NBA player, so it's hardly a bad career. Probably better than most of this draft. But it's a tough fit where most of best teams use SFs at the 4 who can handle the ball, dribble into their own shot, slash from the 3 point line to the hoop, make plays. We lack all this at the 4 because of Lauri, and having both Obi & Lauri with the same deficiencies would be far from ideal in making a modern team.


This is the most valid argument against Toppin I've heard so far, although David Lee wasn't nearly as athletic. Ideally I'd want Edwards, but he's not falling to 4, so either we trade down or Toppin it is. Tell me one player who'll likely be available at 4 with a higher upside than Toppin. I'll wait
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Re: who do you NOT want in this draft? 

Post#39 » by cjbulls » Wed Sep 2, 2020 4:32 pm

Ugly Duckling wrote:
kodo wrote:Toppin's player type is tough for the modern NBA. A one position old school PF who doesn't defend well, can't play SF due to not being a perimeter player at all and can't play the 5 due to lack of rim protection and defense. Pros are that he's very athletic, good in the low post and P&R. Will enter the league at 22. This is David Lee almost exactly, with some set shot 3's added.

Now David Lee was a 2x all-star and 1x All-NBA player, so it's hardly a bad career. Probably better than most of this draft. But it's a tough fit where most of best teams use SFs at the 4 who can handle the ball, dribble into their own shot, slash from the 3 point line to the hoop, make plays. We lack all this at the 4 because of Lauri, and having both Obi & Lauri with the same deficiencies would be far from ideal in making a modern team.


This is the most valid argument against Toppin I've heard so far, although David Lee wasn't nearly as athletic. Ideally I'd want Edwards, but he's not falling to 4, so either we trade down or Toppin it is. Tell me one player who'll likely be available at 4 with a higher upside than Toppin. I'll wait


You are shorting David Lee‘s athleticism quite a bit. He won the McDonald’s dunk contest coming out of HS.

Draft Express still has their scouting report page up from his draft. The first sentence: “A terrific athlete.”

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/David-Lee-87/
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Re: who do you NOT want in this draft? 

Post#40 » by Ugly Duckling » Wed Sep 2, 2020 5:07 pm

cjbulls wrote:
Ugly Duckling wrote:
kodo wrote:Toppin's player type is tough for the modern NBA. A one position old school PF who doesn't defend well, can't play SF due to not being a perimeter player at all and can't play the 5 due to lack of rim protection and defense. Pros are that he's very athletic, good in the low post and P&R. Will enter the league at 22. This is David Lee almost exactly, with some set shot 3's added.

Now David Lee was a 2x all-star and 1x All-NBA player, so it's hardly a bad career. Probably better than most of this draft. But it's a tough fit where most of best teams use SFs at the 4 who can handle the ball, dribble into their own shot, slash from the 3 point line to the hoop, make plays. We lack all this at the 4 because of Lauri, and having both Obi & Lauri with the same deficiencies would be far from ideal in making a modern team.


This is the most valid argument against Toppin I've heard so far, although David Lee wasn't nearly as athletic. Ideally I'd want Edwards, but he's not falling to 4, so either we trade down or Toppin it is. Tell me one player who'll likely be available at 4 with a higher upside than Toppin. I'll wait


You are shorting David Lee‘s athleticism quite a bit. He won the McDonald’s dunk contest coming out of HS.

Draft Express still has their scouting report page up from his draft. The first sentence: “A terrific athlete.”

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/David-Lee-87/


I remember David Lee. He wasn't nearly as explosive
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