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OT: The Sox AND the Cubs are atop the standings (as of 8/31/2020)

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Re: OT: The Sox AND the Cubs are atop the standings (as of 8/31/2020) 

Post#121 » by CjayC » Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:24 am

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Re: OT: The Sox AND the Cubs are atop the standings (as of 8/31/2020) 

Post#122 » by dice » Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:16 am

gardenofsound wrote:Yeah, the worst parts of this are Hahn clearly not being on board with this, and that this kills a lot of cultural momentum for the team. How will this play out with TA and Giolito having vocal opinions on social justice and being clubhouse leaders? How does this play out with Eloy and his half unbuttoned jersey? How does it play with all of the jewelry the players like to wear?

Some of this seems so superficial, but it's also part of the identity of the team.

This is the baseball equivalent of the Bears, knocking on the door of real contention, hiring Mike Ditka in to replace Matt Nagy, or Notre Dame saying "**** it!" and bringing Lou Holtz out of retirement.

cultural momentum? clubhouse leadership? football?

i'm sorry, but larussa was an analytics forerunner and baseball is only nominally a team sport. baseball managers really don't matter much unless they go rogue. as such, while this may not be a good hire, i don't think it's particularly consequential
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Re: OT: The Sox AND the Cubs are atop the standings (as of 8/31/2020) 

Post#123 » by Jeffster81 » Sat Oct 31, 2020 4:41 am

dice wrote:
gardenofsound wrote:Yeah, the worst parts of this are Hahn clearly not being on board with this, and that this kills a lot of cultural momentum for the team. How will this play out with TA and Giolito having vocal opinions on social justice and being clubhouse leaders? How does this play out with Eloy and his half unbuttoned jersey? How does it play with all of the jewelry the players like to wear?

Some of this seems so superficial, but it's also part of the identity of the team.

This is the baseball equivalent of the Bears, knocking on the door of real contention, hiring Mike Ditka in to replace Matt Nagy, or Notre Dame saying "**** it!" and bringing Lou Holtz out of retirement.

cultural momentum? clubhouse leadership? football?

i'm sorry, but larussa was an analytics forerunner and baseball is only nominally a team sport. baseball managers really don't matter much unless they go rogue. as such, while this may not be a good hire, i don't think it's particularly consequential


I could be wrong but I never saw La Russa as an "analytical" guy as much as "gut feeling" manager.
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Re: OT: The Sox AND the Cubs are atop the standings (as of 8/31/2020) 

Post#124 » by dice » Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:16 am

Jeffster81 wrote:
dice wrote:
gardenofsound wrote:Yeah, the worst parts of this are Hahn clearly not being on board with this, and that this kills a lot of cultural momentum for the team. How will this play out with TA and Giolito having vocal opinions on social justice and being clubhouse leaders? How does this play out with Eloy and his half unbuttoned jersey? How does it play with all of the jewelry the players like to wear?

Some of this seems so superficial, but it's also part of the identity of the team.

This is the baseball equivalent of the Bears, knocking on the door of real contention, hiring Mike Ditka in to replace Matt Nagy, or Notre Dame saying "**** it!" and bringing Lou Holtz out of retirement.

cultural momentum? clubhouse leadership? football?

i'm sorry, but larussa was an analytics forerunner and baseball is only nominally a team sport. baseball managers really don't matter much unless they go rogue. as such, while this may not be a good hire, i don't think it's particularly consequential


I could be wrong but I never saw La Russa as an "analytical" guy as much as "gut feeling" manager.

he was using analytics and film study as early as the '80s and was a pioneer in using relievers heavily. that said...

“If you think your info is so strong that it can forecast once the game starts, on how it’s going to flow, how hitters and pitchers are going to react in game situations, then you’re foolish. It’s great stuff until the first pitch is thrown, and then what you have to do is invest in your managers and coaches”

i don't think you'd see him pulling a hot starter like the rays did in the other night
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Re: OT: The Sox AND the Cubs are atop the standings (as of 8/31/2020 

Post#125 » by gardenofsound » Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:39 pm

dice wrote:
Jeffster81 wrote:
dice wrote:cultural momentum? clubhouse leadership? football?

i'm sorry, but larussa was an analytics forerunner and baseball is only nominally a team sport. baseball managers really don't matter much unless they go rogue. as such, while this may not be a good hire, i don't think it's particularly consequential


I could be wrong but I never saw La Russa as an "analytical" guy as much as "gut feeling" manager.

he was using analytics and film study as early as the '80s and was a pioneer in using relievers heavily. that said...

“If you think your info is so strong that it can forecast once the game starts, on how it’s going to flow, how hitters and pitchers are going to react in game situations, then you’re foolish. It’s great stuff until the first pitch is thrown, and then what you have to do is invest in your managers and coaches”

i don't think you'd see him pulling a hot starter like the rays did in the other night


My least concern around La Russa is his baseball acumen and decision making.

My concern is bringing a 76 year old — who has previously denounced Colin Kaepernick kneeling for the anthem, and more recently a Fernando Tatis Jr. grand slam in a blowout—into a clubhouse with Tim Anderson as the leader in 2020. It seems like a recipe for combustion. Couple that with Rick Hahn, a top GM in this league, clearly not being on board with it.

You don’t have a slogan “Change the Game” with a team that walks the talk, only to bring in a 76 year old who represents everything good and bad about the 1980-2010 era of baseball, from PEDs to retaliatory hit batters for perceived slights like getting “shown up.”

Will free agents like Trevor Bauer and Marcus Stroman (both of whom are presumed targets to solidify their rotation) want to play for La Russa over, say, Maddon, Roberts, Francona, or even Baldelli?
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Re: OT: The Sox AND the Cubs are atop the standings (as of 8/31/2020) 

Post#126 » by transplant » Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:27 pm

johnnyvann840 wrote:I don't understand it from TLR's side of it either. The guy went out on top in storybook fashion in 2011 with a World Series win. His last 12 years managing in St. Louis were epic. He won 6 division titles, two World Series championships and 3 NL pennants in those 12 seasons. 9 of those seasons he won 85 games or more. That is pretty remarkable. Why would he want to come back now?

I'm not surprised TLR wants to come back. Being a baseball manager is who he is and he still believes he can be successful.
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Re: OT: The Sox AND the Cubs are atop the standings (as of 8/31/2020 

Post#127 » by dice » Sun Nov 1, 2020 12:43 am

gardenofsound wrote:
dice wrote:
Jeffster81 wrote:
I could be wrong but I never saw La Russa as an "analytical" guy as much as "gut feeling" manager.

he was using analytics and film study as early as the '80s and was a pioneer in using relievers heavily. that said...

“If you think your info is so strong that it can forecast once the game starts, on how it’s going to flow, how hitters and pitchers are going to react in game situations, then you’re foolish. It’s great stuff until the first pitch is thrown, and then what you have to do is invest in your managers and coaches”

i don't think you'd see him pulling a hot starter like the rays did in the other night


My least concern around La Russa is his baseball acumen and decision making.

My concern is bringing a 76 year old — who has previously denounced Colin Kaepernick kneeling for the anthem, and more recently a Fernando Tatis Jr. grand slam in a blowout—into a clubhouse with Tim Anderson as the leader in 2020. It seems like a recipe for combustion. Couple that with Rick Hahn, a top GM in this league, clearly not being on board with it.

You don’t have a slogan “Change the Game” with a team that walks the talk, only to bring in a 76 year old who represents everything good and bad about the 1980-2010 era of baseball, from PEDs to retaliatory hit batters for perceived slights like getting “shown up.”

Will free agents like Trevor Bauer and Marcus Stroman (both of whom are presumed targets to solidify their rotation) want to play for La Russa over, say, Maddon, Roberts, Francona, or even Baldelli?

do players actually care about who their manager is when they're deciding where to play?

again, i'm not claiming that larussa isn't a bad hire, but it strikes me as far-fetched to think that he or any other baseball manager is likely to have a markedly deleterious effect on a team
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Re: OT: The Sox AND the Cubs are atop the standings (as of 8/31/2020 

Post#128 » by gardenofsound » Sun Nov 1, 2020 3:17 am

dice wrote:
gardenofsound wrote:
dice wrote:he was using analytics and film study as early as the '80s and was a pioneer in using relievers heavily. that said...

“If you think your info is so strong that it can forecast once the game starts, on how it’s going to flow, how hitters and pitchers are going to react in game situations, then you’re foolish. It’s great stuff until the first pitch is thrown, and then what you have to do is invest in your managers and coaches”

i don't think you'd see him pulling a hot starter like the rays did in the other night


My least concern around La Russa is his baseball acumen and decision making.

My concern is bringing a 76 year old — who has previously denounced Colin Kaepernick kneeling for the anthem, and more recently a Fernando Tatis Jr. grand slam in a blowout—into a clubhouse with Tim Anderson as the leader in 2020. It seems like a recipe for combustion. Couple that with Rick Hahn, a top GM in this league, clearly not being on board with it.

You don’t have a slogan “Change the Game” with a team that walks the talk, only to bring in a 76 year old who represents everything good and bad about the 1980-2010 era of baseball, from PEDs to retaliatory hit batters for perceived slights like getting “shown up.”

Will free agents like Trevor Bauer and Marcus Stroman (both of whom are presumed targets to solidify their rotation) want to play for La Russa over, say, Maddon, Roberts, Francona, or even Baldelli?

do players actually care about who their manager is when they're deciding where to play?

again, i'm not claiming that larussa isn't a bad hire, but it strikes me as far-fetched to think that he or any other baseball manager is likely to have a markedly deleterious effect on a team


I'm quite sure the guy filling out lineup cards and making pitching decisions impacts FA decisions.

If TA kneels for the anthem on opening day, and TLR deems it to not be "sincere" enough, then will he pull TA and we see Howie Mendick as the starter for that game?

Like, to me, that's a real possibility.

In the case of Bauer, he and TA had shared a diametrically opposite view to La Russa on the Tatis blowout grand slam. I don't really have an opinion on who is "right" in that debate, but clearly these three people do, and Joe Maddon (Padres manager) clearly shares the same opinion as TA and Bauer. So it seems like Bauer would probably rather play for Joe Maddon if we're to take that in isolation.

Then there's Marcus Stroman...

Read on Twitter


There's one Like on that tweet. Guess who?

And that's not the only tweet he was interacting with. So the La Russa hiring seems to have already taken the Sox out of the running for the second best pitcher on the market this offseason, with Bauer also likely needing some extra convincing.
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Re: OT: The Sox AND the Cubs are atop the standings (as of 8/31/2020) 

Post#129 » by fleet » Sun Nov 1, 2020 3:48 am

Keuchel did mention the team had an attention or attitude issue this season. I’m not worried about preserving any of that. But yeah, Reinsdorf has been pissing in cheerios forever. Had thought his crusty oversight was finally overcome after the Tatis deal woke up the franchise. This guy won’t **** die off.
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Re: OT: The Sox AND the Cubs are atop the standings (as of 8/31/2020) 

Post#130 » by Jcool0 » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:09 am

Of course....

Read on Twitter
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Re: OT: The Sox AND the Cubs are atop the standings (as of 8/31/2020) 

Post#131 » by gardenofsound » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:17 am

Jcool0 wrote:Of course....

Read on Twitter


I can't even...

He was charged one day before his hire was announced, AND the Sox knew about it.

I don't understand. Someone help me understand.
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Re: OT: The Sox AND the Cubs are atop the standings (as of 8/31/2020) 

Post#132 » by Jcool0 » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:22 am

Read on Twitter
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Re: OT: The Sox AND the Cubs are atop the standings (as of 8/31/2020) 

Post#133 » by Susan » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:50 am

Jcool0 wrote:
Read on Twitter


Pretty cool, dude has some street cred with these young whipper snappers.

What a damn joke.
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Re: OT: The Sox AND the Cubs are atop the standings (as of 8/31/2020) 

Post#134 » by Kurt Heimlich » Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:47 am

Unreal. Jerry is a such a clown he can't resist tripping over his own clown shoes.
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Re: OT: The Sox AND the Cubs are atop the standings (as of 8/31/2020) 

Post#135 » by Michael Jackson » Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:12 am

Unbelievable.
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Re: OT: The Sox AND the Cubs are atop the standings (as of 8/31/2020) 

Post#136 » by ImSlower » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:04 pm

I'm not surprised it happened, TLR has always loved his wine. I can't imagine Hahns conversation with Jerry.

"Hinch is a cheat. Let's get Tony, he's #3 all time, and I promised him in the 80s that I would do him a solid."
"Sir, he is significantly older than any manager, can he handle multiple 162 game seasons and deep playoff runs?"
"Sonny don't you lecture me. He's a champ."
"What about his regressive attitude toward players supporting protest movements?"
"He'll keep the thugs in line."
"Sir, I'm not sure that's something that'll be responded to well in our clubhouse full of passionate young players, most of which are POC."
"POC? That another damn new stat you kids made up? Hey did you hear the one about the priest, the - "
"Sir. I have six more Zoom meetings this morning. Tim and the rest of the guys won't be happy if Mr La Russa leans on vets and puts the clamp on showing emotion on the field. We are one of the most fun young teams in baseball, Jerry."
"Tony's my guy. Anything else?
"Actually, yes. Youve known his lifelong drinking habits? Well he got a second DUI this year. Its going to go public. He may even have to spend a night or two in jail. We will take a heavy PR hit."
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Re: OT: The Sox AND the Cubs are atop the standings (as of 8/31/2020) 

Post#137 » by ATRAIN53 » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:53 pm

CjayC wrote:TLR



:lol:

How do I reeeeeeech these kids!!!

My wife is a teacher and we probably say this multiple times a week, just like Cartman James Olmos there.
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Re: OT: The Sox AND the Cubs are atop the standings (as of 8/31/2020) 

Post#138 » by TheFinishSniper » Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:03 pm

This news give me depression about Bulls. There wont be any good as long Jerry is alive. There isnt MJ walking through that door on court to keep this clown owner from being damn destroyer of franchises.
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Re: OT: The Sox AND the Cubs are atop the standings (as of 8/31/2020) 

Post#139 » by Jeffster81 » Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:15 pm

Marcus Stroman just said he would not be signing with the Sox as long as Tony La Russa is manager. I suspect the WS might get frozed out of the FA market, other than white guys this off-season.

WS was building momentum for 2021 but Jerry decided to kill said momentum with the hiring of La Russa. I am so sorry WS fans, you don't deserve this.
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Re: OT: The Sox AND the Cubs are atop the standings (as of 8/31/2020) 

Post#140 » by Dominater » Tue Nov 10, 2020 7:04 pm

TheFinishSniper wrote:This news give me depression about Bulls. There wont be any good as long Jerry is alive. There isnt MJ walking through that door on court to keep this clown owner from being damn destroyer of franchises.

Luckily for us, he stopped caring about the Bulls and handed the keys to Michael
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