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How Good is Jimmy Butler?

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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#661 » by dice » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:02 am

2018C3 wrote:What was the turning point that made Jimmy break out? Was it a talk with Mark Wahlberg? Lol, something happened along the way. What was it?.........Thibs? / Deng???? Somewhere along the line a switch just flipped.

his first year as a full time starter (his third overall) was really discombobulated. derrick got re-injured, taking the wind out of the season. then jimmy got injured, then deng got injured and was traded shortly thereafter. psychologically, it was probably a combination of a leadership opportunity heading into the next season along with his decision to turn down the bulls contract offer and bet on himself

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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#662 » by Truebiscuit » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:25 pm

HomoSapien wrote:
Truebiscuit wrote:
Mbrahv0528 wrote:He also, quite literally, just went toe to toe with LeBron and compared favorably in the goddamn NBA Finals... but he couldn't sniff LeBron's jock. Lol ok. This dudes hot takes are hilariously bad.

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Hold on... You put Jimmy Butler in the same stratosphere as LeBron James?

Really?


Nothing incorrect about saying he went toe to toe with LeBron in the finals.

Butler averaged 26 ppg, 9.8 apg, 8 rpg, and 2.2 spg in the finals. That's up there as one of the best individual performances I've seen in my 20+ years as a fan. Don't diminish that just because you're determined to stick to a conviction that you are unwilling to budge from.


I'm stunned that fans here think Jimmy Butler is in LeBron's stratosphere -- he's not -- and it clears the picture for me where this grandiose perception of him is formed. It's like someone who got dumped and is still in love with that ex-boyfriend/girlfriend and puts them on a pedestal.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#663 » by Leslie Forman » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:27 pm

RedBulls23 wrote:
transplant wrote:Who would you rather have, Jimmy Butler or Kawhi Leonard? This was a stupid question before this season. I don't think it is now. Butler wasn't considered an elite player before this season, but he should be now. Very few players are able to make this leap. Kudos to him.

Jimmy has always been this good though. He's just rarely been on teams that have as good as supporting cast as Kawhi. Philly was good, but he saw issues with them (which he was right about) and didn't why to stick around.

Will be interesting what Miami does going forward, because they could still add another star player to that roster. They have the assets and the flexibility to do it.

If he hadn't torn his MCL in Minnesota, they have a very different playoff run and people outside of Chicago would have known sooner what he could really do.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#664 » by HomoSapien » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:32 pm

Truebiscuit wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
Truebiscuit wrote:
Hold on... You put Jimmy Butler in the same stratosphere as LeBron James?

Really?


Nothing incorrect about saying he went toe to toe with LeBron in the finals.

Butler averaged 26 ppg, 9.8 apg, 8 rpg, and 2.2 spg in the finals. That's up there as one of the best individual performances I've seen in my 20+ years as a fan. Don't diminish that just because you're determined to stick to a conviction that you are unwilling to budge from.


I'm stunned that fans here think Jimmy Butler is in LeBron's stratosphere -- he's not -- and it clears the picture for me where this grandiose perception of him is formed. It's like someone who got dumped and is still in love with that ex-boyfriend/girlfriend and puts them on a pedestal.


You don't seem to understand that saying Butler held his own against Lebron James isn't the same as saying he's as good as him. At this point, it seems like you're being purposely obtuse simply so that you can "prove" you are right.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#665 » by TheStig » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:33 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:
RedBulls23 wrote:
transplant wrote:Who would you rather have, Jimmy Butler or Kawhi Leonard? This was a stupid question before this season. I don't think it is now. Butler wasn't considered an elite player before this season, but he should be now. Very few players are able to make this leap. Kudos to him.

Jimmy has always been this good though. He's just rarely been on teams that have as good as supporting cast as Kawhi. Philly was good, but he saw issues with them (which he was right about) and didn't why to stick around.

Will be interesting what Miami does going forward, because they could still add another star player to that roster. They have the assets and the flexibility to do it.

If he hadn't torn his MCL in Minnesota, they have a very different playoff run and people outside of Chicago would have known sooner what he could really do.

I think he'd had have been great and maybe eeeked out a first round win but Kat and Wiggins weren't very good in the playoffs.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#666 » by Truebiscuit » Tue Oct 20, 2020 1:00 am

HomoSapien wrote:
Truebiscuit wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
Nothing incorrect about saying he went toe to toe with LeBron in the finals.

Butler averaged 26 ppg, 9.8 apg, 8 rpg, and 2.2 spg in the finals. That's up there as one of the best individual performances I've seen in my 20+ years as a fan. Don't diminish that just because you're determined to stick to a conviction that you are unwilling to budge from.


I'm stunned that fans here think Jimmy Butler is in LeBron's stratosphere -- he's not -- and it clears the picture for me where this grandiose perception of him is formed. It's like someone who got dumped and is still in love with that ex-boyfriend/girlfriend and puts them on a pedestal.


You don't seem to understand that saying Butler held his own against Lebron James isn't the same as saying he's as good as him. At this point, it seems like you're being purposely obtuse simply so that you can "prove" you are right.


Again, there is no ego involved here. I have said this already. People can call it "toe to toe" or "he sniffed LeBron's jock" or whatever other verbiage they see fit: he isn't in LeBron's stratosphere.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#667 » by HomoSapien » Tue Oct 20, 2020 2:55 am

Truebiscuit wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
Truebiscuit wrote:
I'm stunned that fans here think Jimmy Butler is in LeBron's stratosphere -- he's not -- and it clears the picture for me where this grandiose perception of him is formed. It's like someone who got dumped and is still in love with that ex-boyfriend/girlfriend and puts them on a pedestal.


You don't seem to understand that saying Butler held his own against Lebron James isn't the same as saying he's as good as him. At this point, it seems like you're being purposely obtuse simply so that you can "prove" you are right.


Again, there is no ego involved here. I have said this already. People can call it "toe to toe" or "he sniffed LeBron's jock" or whatever other verbiage they see fit: he isn't in LeBron's stratosphere.


But who is saying he is?
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#668 » by chrispatrick » Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:04 am

HomoSapien wrote:
Truebiscuit wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
You don't seem to understand that saying Butler held his own against Lebron James isn't the same as saying he's as good as him. At this point, it seems like you're being purposely obtuse simply so that you can "prove" you are right.


Again, there is no ego involved here. I have said this already. People can call it "toe to toe" or "he sniffed LeBron's jock" or whatever other verbiage they see fit: he isn't in LeBron's stratosphere.


But who is saying he is?


Their body of work obviously isn't near equivalent but I will go ahead and say that Jimmy was absolutely in LeBron's stratosphere in the most recent NBA finals and there was not a significant difference between them in that series. If Jimmy was with the AD-Lakers and LeBron was with the injury ravaged Heat, my best guess is that the Lakers would still win 4-2.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#669 » by Ice Man » Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:49 pm

chrispatrick wrote:If Jimmy was with the AD-Lakers and LeBron was with the injury ravaged Heat, my best guess is that the Lakers would still win 4-2.


Given that Butler was 100% LeBron's equal in the series, and LeBron was 100% Butler's equal, that seems obvious. Not to say that some won't dissent with the obvious, but ...

Which gets back to my longstanding point about people making the outcome of playoff series about one player, not a team. Durant played great in both GSW-Cavs series, but that didn't make Durant "better" than LeBron. Or vice versa. They neutralized each other, so the outcome was about Steph, Klay, and Draymond being ... duh ... better than Cleveland's supporting cast.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#670 » by Truebiscuit » Fri Oct 23, 2020 12:02 am

chrispatrick wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
Truebiscuit wrote:
Again, there is no ego involved here. I have said this already. People can call it "toe to toe" or "he sniffed LeBron's jock" or whatever other verbiage they see fit: he isn't in LeBron's stratosphere.


But who is saying he is?


Their body of work obviously isn't near equivalent but I will go ahead and say that Jimmy was absolutely in LeBron's stratosphere in the most recent NBA finals and there was not a significant difference between them in that series. If Jimmy was with the AD-Lakers and LeBron was with the injury ravaged Heat, my best guess is that the Lakers would still win 4-2.


Unbelievable :nonono:
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#671 » by Wingy » Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:45 am

HomoSapien wrote:
Truebiscuit wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
You don't seem to understand that saying Butler held his own against Lebron James isn't the same as saying he's as good as him. At this point, it seems like you're being purposely obtuse simply so that you can "prove" you are right.


Again, there is no ego involved here. I have said this already. People can call it "toe to toe" or "he sniffed LeBron's jock" or whatever other verbiage they see fit: he isn't in LeBron's stratosphere.


But who is saying he is?


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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#672 » by dice » Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:01 pm

Truebiscuit wrote:
chrispatrick wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
But who is saying he is?


Their body of work obviously isn't near equivalent but I will go ahead and say that Jimmy was absolutely in LeBron's stratosphere in the most recent NBA finals and there was not a significant difference between them in that series. If Jimmy was with the AD-Lakers and LeBron was with the injury ravaged Heat, my best guess is that the Lakers would still win 4-2.


Unbelievable :nonono:

he's absolutely right and you're absolutely wrong. how anybody can watch that series and say that lebron outplayed jimmy is beyond me. jimmy was the heart and soul of a team that otherwise isn't very good AND was injury plagued. he carried that team to a 6th game against a team with two superstars

anybody who has ever downplayed the abilities of jimmy butler looks like an absolute fool right now. as for anybody who has ever said that jimmy butler would lead a team to a championship...oh wait, nobody has ever said that. i doubt anyone is even predicting it now. but don't be shocked if he proves us ALL wrong again. because if the bubble showed us anything it's that he's sure as **** capable of it
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#673 » by Truebiscuit » Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:43 pm

HomoSapien wrote:
Truebiscuit wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
You don't seem to understand that saying Butler held his own against Lebron James isn't the same as saying he's as good as him. At this point, it seems like you're being purposely obtuse simply so that you can "prove" you are right.


Again, there is no ego involved here. I have said this already. People can call it "toe to toe" or "he sniffed LeBron's jock" or whatever other verbiage they see fit: he isn't in LeBron's stratosphere.


But who is saying he is?


chrispatrick and dice, to name a few.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#674 » by Truebiscuit » Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:46 pm

dice wrote:
Truebiscuit wrote:
chrispatrick wrote:
Their body of work obviously isn't near equivalent but I will go ahead and say that Jimmy was absolutely in LeBron's stratosphere in the most recent NBA finals and there was not a significant difference between them in that series. If Jimmy was with the AD-Lakers and LeBron was with the injury ravaged Heat, my best guess is that the Lakers would still win 4-2.


Unbelievable :nonono:

he's absolutely right and you're absolutely wrong. how anybody can watch that series and say that lebron outplayed jimmy is beyond me. jimmy was the heart and soul of a team that otherwise isn't very good AND was injury plagued. he carried that team to a 6th game against a team with two superstars

anybody who has ever downplayed the abilities of jimmy butler looks like an absolute fool right now. as for anybody who has ever said that jimmy butler would lead a team to a championship...oh wait, nobody has ever said that. i doubt anyone is even predicting it now. but don't be shocked if he proves us ALL wrong again. because if the bubble showed us anything it's that he's sure as **** capable of it


:nonono:
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#675 » by dice » Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:17 am

Truebiscuit wrote:
dice wrote:
Truebiscuit wrote:
Unbelievable :nonono:

he's absolutely right and you're absolutely wrong. how anybody can watch that series and say that lebron outplayed jimmy is beyond me. jimmy was the heart and soul of a team that otherwise isn't very good AND was injury plagued. he carried that team to a 6th game against a team with two superstars

anybody who has ever downplayed the abilities of jimmy butler looks like an absolute fool right now. as for anybody who has ever said that jimmy butler would lead a team to a championship...oh wait, nobody has ever said that. i doubt anyone is even predicting it now. but don't be shocked if he proves us ALL wrong again. because if the bubble showed us anything it's that he's sure as **** capable of it


:nonono:

doubling down on looking foolish, eh emojiboy?

your opinion on jimmy butler has aged even worse than your username. and that's saying quite a lot
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#676 » by Truebiscuit » Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:41 pm

dice wrote:
Truebiscuit wrote:
dice wrote:he's absolutely right and you're absolutely wrong. how anybody can watch that series and say that lebron outplayed jimmy is beyond me. jimmy was the heart and soul of a team that otherwise isn't very good AND was injury plagued. he carried that team to a 6th game against a team with two superstars

anybody who has ever downplayed the abilities of jimmy butler looks like an absolute fool right now. as for anybody who has ever said that jimmy butler would lead a team to a championship...oh wait, nobody has ever said that. i doubt anyone is even predicting it now. but don't be shocked if he proves us ALL wrong again. because if the bubble showed us anything it's that he's sure as **** capable of it


:nonono:

doubling down on looking foolish, eh emojiboy?

your opinion on jimmy butler has aged even worse than your username. and that's saying quite a lot


I just don't agree with it, at all. Little to no, if any, basketball fans think Jimmy Butler is in LeBron freaking James' tier of greatness (stratosphere).

Not sure where your anger comes from; need to get rude/personal, guy.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#677 » by fleet » Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:57 pm

Hopefully everyone can just discuss this without being disagreeable, as we are getting reports now.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#678 » by fleet » Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:05 pm

dice wrote:
transplant wrote:Who would you rather have, Jimmy Butler or Kawhi Leonard? This was a stupid question before this season. I don't think it is now.

similarly, any prediction prior to this season (or prior to the heat taking down the bucks, really) that butler would never lead a team to a championship would have been completely and utterly boring. nobody could have reasonably disagreed with that. even now he's UNLIKELY to lead a team to a championship given his age and current supporting cast, so a prediction that he won't would hardly be bold, but now it's at least worthy of discussion

'will jimmy butler ever be the best player on a championship team?'

prior to the heat beating the bucks, the answer to such a poll question would have been very heavily tilted to 'no.' today it would still be 'no', just not so lopsided

once a great player hits peak personal career performance stats, they tend to slowly decline. Which Jimmy was seemingly trudging down the path, he had reached peak performance with the Bulls. But what you rarely see is a player crank it back up toward peak performance level in later years after the slow decline had begun. This year was remarkable. Smaller sample size than in a normal year. But if Jimmy plays like this next season, he is rare. Seeing what he did makes me wonder if he was underperforming for some reason the last couple years.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#679 » by dice » Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:20 pm

Truebiscuit wrote:
dice wrote:
Truebiscuit wrote:
:nonono:

doubling down on looking foolish, eh emojiboy?

your opinion on jimmy butler has aged even worse than your username. and that's saying quite a lot


I just don't agree with it, at all. Little to no, if any, basketball fans think Jimmy Butler is in LeBron freaking James' tier of greatness (stratosphere).

NOBODY. HAS. CLAIMED. THAT. what is being claimed is that jimmy was on lebron's level IN A SINGLE SERIES. get the difference?

why do you continually make strawman arguments?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Not sure where your anger comes from; need to get rude/personal, guy.

responding with juvenile emojis is about as rude as it gets
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#680 » by TheStig » Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:30 pm

Truebiscuit wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
Truebiscuit wrote:
I'm stunned that fans here think Jimmy Butler is in LeBron's stratosphere -- he's not -- and it clears the picture for me where this grandiose perception of him is formed. It's like someone who got dumped and is still in love with that ex-boyfriend/girlfriend and puts them on a pedestal.


You don't seem to understand that saying Butler held his own against Lebron James isn't the same as saying he's as good as him. At this point, it seems like you're being purposely obtuse simply so that you can "prove" you are right.


Again, there is no ego involved here. I have said this already. People can call it "toe to toe" or "he sniffed LeBron's jock" or whatever other verbiage they see fit: he isn't in LeBron's stratosphere.

He absolutely was in games 1-5 of the NBA finals. He was never before and likely never will be again. But head to head for those 5 games he absolutely was. And Jimmy deserves credit for willing his team and making it a real series for 5 games.

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