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How Good is Jimmy Butler?

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beeshma
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#161 » by beeshma » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:43 pm

DaMayor07 wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:
chefo wrote:
I think it came out that said players were the 'younglings'--because Val and Jerian came out and defended Bobby. Not coincidentally, these are the dudes that Jimmy and Wade had an issue with the year before. It later came out that the Bulls FO had told these guys what they understood as: "if you work really hard over the summer, the team is yours. We just got rid of Jimmy and Dwayne." Which is to say, that the trio had a very over-inflated view of their own importance to the Bulls at that exact time because they thought that the FO chose them over a legit NBA star and an NBA legend.

They all said the exact same things in different words--we busted our asses over the summer, and this guy, who didn't (Niko) came in and won the starting PF spot. We have every right to be mad because you went back on your word. The fact that Niko didn't sign until very late didn't register. Neither did the fact that Niko is just a much better player than Bobby who had legit range out to 30ft AND a much better defender.

It also came out that Hoiberg and this staff were encouraging very physical practices and asking players to be very aggressive on D and on the boards in order to toughen them up, and that Niko was one of the more aggressive players in pushing guys around. So, Niko was portrayed in the friendly media as a bully who got what he deserved... despite that same media saying in practices he was by far the best player on the team.

I stand by what I wrote back then. Bobby should have been suspended for half a season, or at least until Niko came back. Jerian and Val should have been shipped out immediately, as opposed to be given starting roles, both because they showed little remorse about Bobby's actions and viewed them as justified, but also because they sucked and deserved absolutely no leniency. These guys had end-of-the bench talent and their opinions should have mattered about as much as mine. And if they were poisoning the well, like it later came out--cut their asses or ship them out of town pronto--which ended up happening anyways, but years too late.


Totally agree. I’m still shocked we wasted 4 years on Valentine. Now that we have, I’m not opposed to setting thru if a new coach make something of his good 3P shooting and passing as a 15-min. microwave, but I really was never a fan of giving him, Jerian or Bobby any keys or say. Wade and Jimmy should’ve been allowed to put these guys in their place.


Never understood or saw the hype behind DV. He had multiple surgeries? and just couldn't play well enough to make me think "we have something promising here".
Bobby was horrible.
Niko was gold that we destroyed. I feel bad for the guy for his time here in Chicago.

Hopefully the new management gives us hope


Ever since that story came out about DV getting cooked in the Drew League, I have pretended that DV doesn't exist. A scrub who gets pushed around by scrubs not even in the NBA is not worth any attention.

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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#162 » by TheJordanRule » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:50 pm

beeshma wrote:
DaMayor07 wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:
Totally agree. I’m still shocked we wasted 4 years on Valentine. Now that we have, I’m not opposed to setting thru if a new coach make something of his good 3P shooting and passing as a 15-min. microwave, but I really was never a fan of giving him, Jerian or Bobby any keys or say. Wade and Jimmy should’ve been allowed to put these guys in their place.


Never understood or saw the hype behind DV. He had multiple surgeries? and just couldn't play well enough to make me think "we have something promising here".
Bobby was horrible.
Niko was gold that we destroyed. I feel bad for the guy for his time here in Chicago.

Hopefully the new management gives us hope


Ever since that story came out about DV getting cooked in the Drew League, I have pretended that DV doesn't exist. A scrub who gets pushed around by scrubs not even in the NBA is not worth any attention.


His ability to pass and hit the three are above average at the NBA level. The biggest problem is his lateral quickness. We've waited for four years for him to get faster or increase his awareness to the point where he doesn't hurt us as much defensively and, due to a combination of injuries and unfortunately his own genetics, it just hasn't happened.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#163 » by Mech Engineer » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:54 pm

TheJordanRule wrote:
beeshma wrote:
DaMayor07 wrote:
Never understood or saw the hype behind DV. He had multiple surgeries? and just couldn't play well enough to make me think "we have something promising here".
Bobby was horrible.
Niko was gold that we destroyed. I feel bad for the guy for his time here in Chicago.

Hopefully the new management gives us hope


Ever since that story came out about DV getting cooked in the Drew League, I have pretended that DV doesn't exist. A scrub who gets pushed around by scrubs not even in the NBA is not worth any attention.


His ability to pass and hit the three are above average at the NBA level. The biggest problem is his lateral quickness. We've waited for four years for him to get faster or increase his awareness to the point where he doesn't hurt us as much defensively and, due to a combination of injuries and unfortunately his own genetics, it just hasn't happened.


They should have known better to stay away from injury prone players by that time. They were also terrible in evaluating offensive minded players always picking the bust ones.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#164 » by MrSparkle » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:40 pm

Mech Engineer wrote:
TheJordanRule wrote:
beeshma wrote:
Ever since that story came out about DV getting cooked in the Drew League, I have pretended that DV doesn't exist. A scrub who gets pushed around by scrubs not even in the NBA is not worth any attention.


His ability to pass and hit the three are above average at the NBA level. The biggest problem is his lateral quickness. We've waited for four years for him to get faster or increase his awareness to the point where he doesn't hurt us as much defensively and, due to a combination of injuries and unfortunately his own genetics, it just hasn't happened.


They should have known better to stay away from injury prone players by that time. They were also terrible in evaluating offensive minded players always picking the bust ones.


I did find it tragically comical that after the 4-year Rose debacle, they decided to trade a healthy prime all-star for a guy with an ACL tear, drafted Zipser who had an ACL tear (or something season-ending in Germany), drafted Valentine who had bad ankles, signed Rondo who never really reached his pre-ACL level of play, signed a 35yo Wade who was clearly 50% of his young self in the finals.... and then even traded iron man Taj for Cam Payne, a guy who had been nursing a broken foot for a year.

You couldn't make it up. :lol: I guess Hinkie was regarded a master-mind at the time.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#165 » by Mech Engineer » Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:08 am

MrSparkle wrote:
Mech Engineer wrote:
TheJordanRule wrote:His ability to pass and hit the three are above average at the NBA level. The biggest problem is his lateral quickness. We've waited for four years for him to get faster or increase his awareness to the point where he doesn't hurt us as much defensively and, due to a combination of injuries and unfortunately his own genetics, it just hasn't happened.


They should have known better to stay away from injury prone players by that time. They were also terrible in evaluating offensive minded players always picking the bust ones.


I did find it tragically comical that after the 4-year Rose debacle, they decided to trade a healthy prime all-star for a guy with an ACL tear, drafted Zipser who had an ACL tear (or something season-ending in Germany), drafted Valentine who had bad ankles, signed Rondo who never really reached his pre-ACL level of play, signed a 35yo Wade who was clearly 50% of his young self in the finals.... and then even traded iron man Taj for Cam Payne, a guy who had been nursing a broken foot for a year.

You couldn't make it up. :lol: I guess Hinkie was regarded a master-mind at the time.


Not to forget they were ready to trade Jimmy just for Dunn the previous year thinking he is the bigger version of Rose.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#166 » by sco » Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:32 pm

IMO, Miami is great this year, not just because of JB, but having the trio of Butler, Iggy and Crowder gives you 3 guys who are great defenders with other skills who are switchable and can tag-team opponent's superstar.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#167 » by Ice Man » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:32 pm

sco wrote:IMO, Miami is great this year, not just because of JB, but having the trio of Butler, Iggy and Crowder gives you 3 guys who are great defenders with other skills who are switchable and can tag-team opponent's superstar.


Iggy helps but he's such a bad offensive player these days that it's tough to keep him on the court. Crowder has been the true find for MIami. He's outright better than the starter he replaced (Meyers Leonard), and Jae was merely the throw-in on the trade that brought Iggy to Miami.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#168 » by MrSparkle » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:00 am

Ice Man wrote:
sco wrote:IMO, Miami is great this year, not just because of JB, but having the trio of Butler, Iggy and Crowder gives you 3 guys who are great defenders with other skills who are switchable and can tag-team opponent's superstar.


Iggy helps but he's such a bad offensive player these days that it's tough to keep him on the court. Crowder has been the true find for MIami. He's outright better than the starter he replaced (Meyers Leonard), and Jae was merely the throw-in on the trade that brought Iggy to Miami.


I’m always surprised when pretty crucial deep playoff guys like that have a cheap price tag (Crowder).

They go from overrated straight to underrated with seemingly no in-between. Also looking at Matt Barnes, Posey, etc.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#169 » by MrSparkle » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:00 am

Ice Man wrote:
sco wrote:IMO, Miami is great this year, not just because of JB, but having the trio of Butler, Iggy and Crowder gives you 3 guys who are great defenders with other skills who are switchable and can tag-team opponent's superstar.


Iggy helps but he's such a bad offensive player these days that it's tough to keep him on the court. Crowder has been the true find for MIami. He's outright better than the starter he replaced (Meyers Leonard), and Jae was merely the throw-in on the trade that brought Iggy to Miami.


I’m always surprised when pretty crucial deep playoff guys like that have a cheap price tag (Crowder).

They go from overrated straight to underrated with seemingly no in-between. Also looking at Matt Barnes, Posey, Diaw, etc.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#170 » by Ice Man » Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:52 am

MrSparkle wrote:I’m always surprised when pretty crucial deep playoff guys like that have a cheap price tag (Crowder).


Lou Williams has been there for 3 years. Both Morris brothers. I think that if I were a real GM I could put together a playoff team made up of 33-year old castoffs who still had some game left in them, but were not wanted by teams that were looking to go young.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#171 » by DaMayor07 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:21 pm

beeshma wrote:
DaMayor07 wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:
Totally agree. I’m still shocked we wasted 4 years on Valentine. Now that we have, I’m not opposed to setting thru if a new coach make something of his good 3P shooting and passing as a 15-min. microwave, but I really was never a fan of giving him, Jerian or Bobby any keys or say. Wade and Jimmy should’ve been allowed to put these guys in their place.


Never understood or saw the hype behind DV. He had multiple surgeries? and just couldn't play well enough to make me think "we have something promising here".
Bobby was horrible.
Niko was gold that we destroyed. I feel bad for the guy for his time here in Chicago.

Hopefully the new management gives us hope


Ever since that story came out about DV getting cooked in the Drew League, I have pretended that DV doesn't exist. A scrub who gets pushed around by scrubs not even in the NBA is not worth any attention.




When I first saw and heard of this clip, I immediately gave up completely on DV lol.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#172 » by erlim » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:30 am

beeshma wrote:
DaMayor07 wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:
Totally agree. I’m still shocked we wasted 4 years on Valentine. Now that we have, I’m not opposed to setting thru if a new coach make something of his good 3P shooting and passing as a 15-min. microwave, but I really was never a fan of giving him, Jerian or Bobby any keys or say. Wade and Jimmy should’ve been allowed to put these guys in their place.


Never understood or saw the hype behind DV. He had multiple surgeries? and just couldn't play well enough to make me think "we have something promising here".
Bobby was horrible.
Niko was gold that we destroyed. I feel bad for the guy for his time here in Chicago.

Hopefully the new management gives us hope


Ever since that story came out about DV getting cooked in the Drew League, I have pretended that DV doesn't exist. A scrub who gets pushed around by scrubs not even in the NBA is not worth any attention.



To add to this, it’s absolutely insane to hear the way people casually talk about Fat Val like he’s a core piece or the answer at small forward. He’s not an NBA level player, period.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#173 » by dougthonus » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:57 pm

Ice Man wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:I’m always surprised when pretty crucial deep playoff guys like that have a cheap price tag (Crowder).


Lou Williams has been there for 3 years. Both Morris brothers. I think that if I were a real GM I could put together a playoff team made up of 33-year old castoffs who still had some game left in them, but were not wanted by teams that were looking to go young.


You can definitely find some value doing this, but that value will be short lived and often the 33 year old cast off guys have deals that aren't particularly cheap, so they're expensive relative to their value and also have short life expectancy. I think these guys make good supplements to a team that has something going already and isn't in the tax and can figure out a way to acquire them, but like all things in running a team, it becomes pretty situational.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#174 » by johnnyvann840 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:31 am

Uhmm...

Pretty freaking good
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#175 » by HomoSapien » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:33 am

Well, Buckets continues to prove that the talent evaluation on this board is broken.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#176 » by weneeda2guard » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:33 am

A piece of me dies at every win the heat get

We really gave up on this guy

Wow we are idiots smh
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#177 » by LateNight » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:34 am

johnnyvann840 wrote:Uhmm...

Pretty freaking good


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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#178 » by Grodoboldo » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:35 am

Pretty **** good, actually.
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1-Edwards; 2-Hayes; 3-Ball; 4-Avdija; 5-Haliburton; 6-Nesmith; 7-Vassel; 8-Okongwu; 9-Williams; 10-Pokusevski.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#179 » by HomoSapien » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:38 am

weneeda2guard wrote:A piece of me dies at every win the heat get

We really gave up on this guy

Wow we are idiots smh


Not only did we give up on him, we didn't even attempt to build around him.
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Re: How Good is Jimmy Butler? 

Post#180 » by shanedude » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:39 am

Not tryna troll, thank y'all for Jimmy. We ****ing love him. What a baller :o
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