RealGM

Leslie Forman wrote:

PhilLeotardo wrote:
If LaVine doesn’t blow up into at the very least a Lillard-level player, the trade will go down as the worst trade in the NBA over the past decade

Nah. This is impossible, because the Harden trade happened in the same decade.

It was a terrible trade, one of the worst, but that one will always take the cake.

Leslie Forman wrote:

PhilLeotardo wrote:
If LaVine doesn’t blow up into at the very least a Lillard-level player, the trade will go down as the worst trade in the NBA over the past decade

Nah. This is impossible, because the Harden trade happened in the same decade.

It was a terrible trade, one of the worst, but that one will always take the cake.

dice wrote:

Ugly Duckling wrote:

PhilLeotardo wrote:In response to the deleted thread: Serious question?

If LaVine doesn’t blow up into at the very least a Lillard-level player, the trade will go down as the worst trade in the NBA over the past decade, and undoubtedly the worst trade in Bulls history (which is really saying something). Dunn is nothing, and I don’t see Markkanen ever blossoming into a star winning player, too slow/lumbering & bad defense

It is going to take the Bulls a long, long time to eclipse that trade. There was simply no excuse for it. “We can’t do our jobs properly, and we’d rather be surrounded by our frat boy buddies/people we’re comfortable with than win. So we’re going to trade you”. That is the definition of toxic unprofessionalism, in any workplace

Fun fact I just returned home from Nairobi/surrounding suburbs in Kenya for my job, and saw many a #21 Bulls jersey. No heat jerseys

Wow, that really puts it into perspective

i can't even figure out what it means. first of all, there's absolutely no way that gar forman ever would have been accepted into a frat that john paxson would have been in. and the trade was made because the FO was unsatisfied with the perceived level of winning that jimmy would have led us to. that calculation was obviously off, but it certainly had nothing to do with not wanting to win

Am2626 wrote:

PhilLeotardo wrote:

Am2626 wrote:
The Bulls didn’t fire Paxson. He went to the Reinsdorf’s and told them he was no longer the best person for the job. He would still be the GM if he wanted to be.

And you know this how? No one knows what precisely went down besides the individuals that were present throughout the endless waking nightmare that was the past 4 years, and it’s inevitable conclusion. No one knows who said behind closed doors

Paxson got demoted. He’s friendly with ownership, so they allowed him to say he “stepped down” & bow out “gracefully”, but he didn’t step down. He essentially got fired from his previous position but gets to keep collecting a small paycheck, and his partner was fired altogether

You can bet there was a ton of infighting within the Bulls brass over the past 5 years, and probably several different warring collectives/camps (Michael vs Jerry/Jon, Gar vs Jon, etc who the hell knows), but ultimately, if we’re just going off of actual events that have taken place, it seems like Jerry gave PaxGar one final shot at building something worthwhile & proving themselves, and they blew it, which lead to Michael R going “see?? I told you, they have no idea what they’re doing, we need to burn it down & hire professionals, we are destroying this franchise & people aren’t coming to games anymore”

Michael seems to be running ownership duties completely now, and wasted no time in firing everyone & burning the entire thing to the ground. The FO wasn’t rebuilt from the ground up because “Pax decided to step down” lol. They were flirting with the point of no return

In Michael Reinsdorf’s press conference introducing AK he stated specifically that Paxson came to him and Jerry and told them that he believed he was no longer the best person to lead this group. Paxson couldn’t handle the negativity that he was facing from fans and the media.

dice wrote:

Truebiscuit wrote:

Susan wrote:
lol, and you've got a Mitchell Trubisky username. Maybe sit this one out.

You realize that every single team Jimmy Butler has been on, sans Miami, has either traded him away or let him walk, right?

the sixers offered him a max contract. he left them in the lurch. he demanded out of minny. and if you don't think the bulls made a mistake at this point...

i'd say your perspective is out of left field, but i suspect you're merely trolling

jimmy butler just came within striking distance of leading a team whose second best player was bam adebayo to an nba championship. and adebayo got hurt. let that sink in

HomoSapien wrote:

dice wrote:

Truebiscuit wrote:You realize that every single team Jimmy Butler has been on, sans Miami, has either traded him away or let him walk, right?

the sixers offered him a max contract. he left them in the lurch. he demanded out of minny. and if you don't think the bulls made a mistake at this point...

i'd say your perspective is out of left field, but i suspect you're merely trolling

jimmy butler just came within striking distance of leading a team whose second best player was bam adebayo to an nba championship. and adebayo got hurt. let that sink in

Also, every team he's left has gotten worse.

Truebiscuit wrote:

Susan wrote:

Truebiscuit wrote:I've said it a million times, so this will make one million and one: You will NEVER win an NBA title with Jimmy Butler as your best player.

Never.

lol, and you've got a Mitchell Trubisky username. Maybe sit this one out.

Golly, Susan, you've got me there! Maybe change your username to Karen next time

You realize that every single team Jimmy Butler has been on, sans Miami, has either traded him away or let him walk, right?

Are you in love with him or something? It's been 3 years, move on already.

Susan wrote:
Bulls were good when he was there, trash after he left

troza wrote:This is something that we seem to forget is how hopeless we were that it was hard to believe that we would be able to build a team around Butler in those years.

troza wrote:

Susan wrote:
Bulls were good when he was there, trash after he left

I agree with your point but just to clarify that we weren't good before he left. We were better but not good. Since Thibs left we have never been good.

This is something that we seem to forget is how hopeless we were that it was hard to believe that we would be able to build a team around Butler in those years.

I would say... change the management at that time after sending Rose and Noah away and failed to do anything out of it. We had a team of veterans that didn't complement Jimmy very well. I would say Wade was ok, Rondo was ok... both was not ok.

A (bad) coach hired because of modern basketball and a roster that didn't fit any of that and didn't had any vision for the future... at the end of that season it was the right time to change things here.

Susan wrote:

Truebiscuit wrote:

Susan wrote:
lol, and you've got a Mitchell Trubisky username. Maybe sit this one out.

Golly, Susan, you've got me there! Maybe change your username to Karen next time

You realize that every single team Jimmy Butler has been on, sans Miami, has either traded him away or let him walk, right?

Are you in love with him or something? It's been 3 years, move on already.

And every single team he's left has gotten WAY worse?

Bulls were good when he was there, trash after he left, Minny was trash before he got there, good when he was there, trash after he left. Philly was one crazy buzzer beater away from the ECF and potentially going to he finals with him, SWEPT without him.

Just because there's a lot of dumbass teams doesn't make your stance any smarter.

Miami's culture is better now that Jimmy's there leading them. Great orgs know how to have great players, losing orgs get rid of em.

Ice Man wrote:

troza wrote:This is something that we seem to forget is how hopeless we were that it was hard to believe that we would be able to build a team around Butler in those years.

I will never understand the idea that a mediocre team will get better by getting rid of its best player. I can't think of when that strategy ever worked.

Truebiscuit wrote:

Ice Man wrote:

troza wrote:This is something that we seem to forget is how hopeless we were that it was hard to believe that we would be able to build a team around Butler in those years.

I will never understand the idea that a mediocre team will get better by getting rid of its best player. I can't think of when that strategy ever worked.

HomoSapien wrote:

Truebiscuit wrote:

Ice Man wrote:
I will never understand the idea that a mediocre team will get better by getting rid of its best player. I can't think of when that strategy ever worked.

When you know that player isn't enough to win you a title as your best player. It's pretty simple/straight-forward.

I'm really in awe with some of this fan-base and their obsession with this player. He's been gone 3 years, let it go![/quote

If a guy is good enough to get you to the finals (or even the conference finals), then they're worth trying to build a team around. There's so much luck involved in this game with injuries and matchups that you just want to hang around and have a "shot" at winning (unless you're in a striking position of getting a franchise player through a trade like we did). At the end of the day, Butler almost singlehandedly won two games in the NBA finals against one of the all-time greats, with all-time great performances. He did that with a hobbled Bam, no Dragic, and a seriously diminished Kendrick Nunn who was not over his Covid symptoms (something that doesn't get discussed enough)

No one is winning a title with Jae Crowder, Olynyk, Robinson, a rookie Herro, and an old-man Igoudala as your main supporting cast.

Truebiscuit wrote:

HomoSapien wrote:

Truebiscuit wrote:

When you know that player isn't enough to win you a title as your best player. It's pretty simple/straight-forward.

I'm really in awe with some of this fan-base and their obsession with this player. He's been gone 3 years, let it go![/quote

If a guy is good enough to get you to the finals (or even the conference finals), then they're worth trying to build a team around. There's so much luck involved in this game with injuries and matchups that you just want to hang around and have a "shot" at winning (unless you're in a striking position of getting a franchise player through a trade like we did). At the end of the day, Butler almost singlehandedly won two games in the NBA finals against one of the all-time greats, with all-time great performances. He did that with a hobbled Bam, no Dragic, and a seriously diminished Kendrick Nunn who was not over his Covid symptoms (something that doesn't get discussed enough)

No one is winning a title with Jae Crowder, Olynyk, Robinson, a rookie Herro, and an old-man Igoudala as your main supporting cast.

Correct, and no one is winning a title with that roster + Jimmy Butler.

He "won us" 42 and 41 games as "the man" in Chicago his final two seasons here. He's not "good enough" to get you to the Finals by himself, clearly.

PhilLeotardo wrote:Yeah, i guess I must’ve missed the part where Harden lead a rag tag crew of mercenaries to the NBA Finals

I also must’ve missed the part where the Thunder fell off a cliff after Harden left

Truebiscuit wrote:

HomoSapien wrote:

dice wrote:the sixers offered him a max contract. he left them in the lurch. he demanded out of minny. and if you don't think the bulls made a mistake at this point...

i'd say your perspective is out of left field, but i suspect you're merely trolling

jimmy butler just came within striking distance of leading a team whose second best player was bam adebayo to an nba championship. and adebayo got hurt. let that sink in

Also, every team he's left has gotten worse.

This is valid, but it does not detract from my original statement: you will never win an NBA title with Jimmy Butler as your best player.

Truebiscuit wrote:

HomoSapien wrote:

dice wrote:the sixers offered him a max contract. he left them in the lurch. he demanded out of minny. and if you don't think the bulls made a mistake at this point...

i'd say your perspective is out of left field, but i suspect you're merely trolling

jimmy butler just came within striking distance of leading a team whose second best player was bam adebayo to an nba championship. and adebayo got hurt. let that sink in

Also, every team he's left has gotten worse.

This is valid, but it does not detract from my original statement: you will never win an NBA title with Jimmy Butler as your best player.

Truebiscuit wrote:When you know that player isn't enough to win you a title as your best player. It's pretty simple/straight-forward.