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How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed?

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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#21 » by 2018C3 » Mon Sep 7, 2020 2:54 am

I was one one of the biggest anti / Gordon guys on this board, back when I was posting under the name "C3".

He was a very limited role type player who was very effective offensive weapon when his offensive role was hot. He was never consistent enough to keep.

Rose was a much better player, and his emergence reduced Ben's primary role as a closer. Ben had a decent run, but was never a guy you could count on to close out a playoffs series. Once Rose was drafted he made Ben very expendable.

Once Ben was left free to leave, I never once questioned that decision.

Ben and Rose would have never worked as neither was a defensive player, and Ben did not have the size to play the two.

With 5 minutes left in a game, going forward I would have always preferred to see the ball in Rose's hands over Ben's.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#22 » by prolific passer » Mon Sep 7, 2020 3:39 am

2018C3 wrote:I was one one of the biggest anti / Gordon guys on this board, back when I was posting under the name "C3".

He was a very limited role type player who was very effective offensive weapon when his offensive role was hot. He was never consistent enough to keep.

Rose was a much better player, and his emergence reduced Ben's primary role as a closer. Ben had a decent run, but was never a guy you could count on to close out a playoffs series. Once Rose was drafted he made Ben very expendable.

Once Ben was left free to leave, I never once questioned that decision.

Ben and Rose would have never worked as neither was a defensive player, and Ben did not have the size to play the two.

With 5 minutes left in a game, going forward I would have always preferred to see the ball in Rose's hands over Ben's.

Having Rose and Gordon out there at the end games would be pretty dangerous for the opponent.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#23 » by 2018C3 » Mon Sep 7, 2020 4:59 am

prolific passer wrote:
2018C3 wrote:I was one one of the biggest anti / Gordon guys on this board, back when I was posting under the name "C3".

He was a very limited role type player who was very effective offensive weapon when his offensive role was hot. He was never consistent enough to keep.

Rose was a much better player, and his emergence reduced Ben's primary role as a closer. Ben had a decent run, but was never a guy you could count on to close out a playoffs series. Once Rose was drafted he made Ben very expendable.

Once Ben was left free to leave, I never once questioned that decision.

Ben and Rose would have never worked as neither was a defensive player, and Ben did not have the size to play the two.

With 5 minutes left in a game, going forward I would have always preferred to see the ball in Rose's hands over Ben's.

Having Rose and Gordon out there at the end games would be pretty dangerous for the opponent.


If that was true offensively, you would think Hamilton, Stuckey, and Ben could have achieved the same results you suggest. In Bens first Detroit season (2009/10), Rip put up exactly two less shots then Rose, and made about 1 less basket (or 2.5 Less Points).

Looking at numbers Ben and Rose combined numbers look good, but keep in mind these numbers came within a similar role. (Give me the ball, and get out of my way).

This was Ben's best role, and when he got plugged in with other more complete players, his overall game became less effective as he was not great at anything else than scoring.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#24 » by prolific passer » Mon Sep 7, 2020 5:18 am

2018C3 wrote:
prolific passer wrote:
2018C3 wrote:I was one one of the biggest anti / Gordon guys on this board, back when I was posting under the name "C3".

He was a very limited role type player who was very effective offensive weapon when his offensive role was hot. He was never consistent enough to keep.

Rose was a much better player, and his emergence reduced Ben's primary role as a closer. Ben had a decent run, but was never a guy you could count on to close out a playoffs series. Once Rose was drafted he made Ben very expendable.

Once Ben was left free to leave, I never once questioned that decision.

Ben and Rose would have never worked as neither was a defensive player, and Ben did not have the size to play the two.

With 5 minutes left in a game, going forward I would have always preferred to see the ball in Rose's hands over Ben's.

Having Rose and Gordon out there at the end games would be pretty dangerous for the opponent.


If that was true offensively, you would think Hamilton, Stuckey, and Ben could have achieved the same results you suggest. In Bens first Detroit season (2009/10), Rip put up exactly two less shots then Rose, and made about 1 less basket.

Looking at numbers Ben and Rose combined numbers look good, but keep in mind these numbers came within a similar role. (Give me the ball, and get out of my way).

This was Ben's best role, and when he got plugged in with other more complete players, his overall game became less effective as he was not great at anything else than scoring.

Don't know what happen to Ben after he left. At least the Bulls got his best years. If Gordon continued to play at the level in 2011 that he was in his first 5 seasons with the bulls. Would they have won the chip? Maybe he wouldn't mind coming off the bench behind Bogans who played 18mpg. A 30mpg 6th man.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#25 » by josephcurrency » Mon Sep 7, 2020 3:53 pm

I still remember being at the Taste of Chicago and there was a meet and greet with Ben Gordon later in the week. He was traded the next day. I don't know if the meet and greet still happened but I'd like to think it did and was incredibly awkward for everyone.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#26 » by The Evidence » Mon Sep 7, 2020 6:13 pm

I wonder more about what Rose's career would have looked like if he had a 20 ppg scorer who could avg 40% from 3PA... like a BG.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#27 » by MrSparkle » Mon Sep 7, 2020 6:36 pm

Pax sure accidentally created some 2015-20 era rosters.

I really enjoyed the Rose, Gordon, Salmons, Miller offensive fire-power when they took on the Celtics. Boston was missing KG but man were they still a good team at that point. I think we would’ve won that series with a 2y older Noah and Taj instead of Tyrus. Tyrus was infuriating in that series; very soft on the glass. A common theme with these young big men, although Big Baby and Powell were his age.

But yeah — BG clearly had some things going on in his head. It’s totally possible that Rose, Deng, Thibs could’ve been the safe space for him to continue doing what he did well.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#28 » by transplant » Mon Sep 7, 2020 8:52 pm

I appreciate all the nostalgia, but Gordon was a flawed player. Before Rose, he was the go-to guy with the clock running down and at the end of games and he was damn good at it. He could play with Hinrich, 'cause Hinrich could effectively defend the bigger guard. They drafted Sefolosha largely because they thought Thabo could play PG on offense and defend the SG on defense...a shame he couldn't shoot worth a damn. Gordon and Rose created a defensive problem and a redundancy at the "go-to" role. In the end, you can afford to have one defensive liability who is your go-to guy, but not 2.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#29 » by kodo » Mon Sep 7, 2020 11:03 pm

The Boston series was when I was done hoping for Tyrus. What's the point of drafting an athletic freak when Big Baby scores all over him.

He could play with Hinrich, 'cause Hinrich could effectively defend the bigger guard.

Yes good point about BG, he worked in Chicago because Hinrich cross matched with Ben's assignment and took on the wings. I remember sometimes on pickups Hinrich was guarding SFs like Shawn Marion. Without that, BG's defense became a big issue for Detroit. They played him less & less and went with Stuckey.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#30 » by prolific passer » Tue Sep 8, 2020 12:00 am

kodo wrote:The Boston series was when I was done hoping for Tyrus. What's the point of drafting an athletic freak when Big Baby scores all over him.

He could play with Hinrich, 'cause Hinrich could effectively defend the bigger guard.

Yes good point about BG, he worked in Chicago because Hinrich cross matched with Ben's assignment and took on the wings. I remember sometimes on pickups Hinrich was guarding SFs like Shawn Marion. Without that, BG's defense became a big issue for Detroit. They played him less & less and went with Stuckey.

Detroit was just a bad fit in the end. Sad that Gordon went the Lenny Wilkens route and only made the playoffs on his first team and played on horrible teams for the remainder of his career.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#31 » by NZB2323 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 1:20 am

prolific passer wrote:
ChettheJet wrote:I had to look to see what happened when he left. And it's really hard to judge. Rose came in and was an instant star PG, they had Hinrich so the three of them in any combination could produce. They could have gotten by with Salmons and not needed Pargo or Flip Murray who scared no one. Deng, Miller and Noah would have been the same, Gibson too. Would the added scoring from Gordon taken pressure off Thomas or made him press to try and do more? Just no way to tell

I wonder how Gordon would have fit into the 2011 squad. Started? Came off the bench? Would Thibs have discovered some defensive strengths in him like he did Ray Allen? Would Rose scoring dip a bit but assists go up with Gordon's scoring? Would he have still won the mvp?


With the money Gordon was demanding, it would be hard to tell who we still had in 2011.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#32 » by Bandit King » Tue Sep 8, 2020 3:48 am

He still would been depressed!!!
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#33 » by dice » Tue Sep 8, 2020 5:08 am

josephcurrency wrote:I still remember being at the Taste of Chicago and there was a meet and greet with Ben Gordon later in the week. He was traded the next day. I don't know if the meet and greet still happened but I'd like to think it did and was incredibly awkward for everyone.

i went to a single day basketball camp w/ horace grant and cliff levingston where horace must've known he would be leaving for orlando soon. i told him i hoped he would be back the next season and he ignored me
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#34 » by satriales » Tue Sep 8, 2020 5:50 am

josephcurrency wrote:I still remember being at the Taste of Chicago and there was a meet and greet with Ben Gordon later in the week. He was traded the next day. I don't know if the meet and greet still happened but I'd like to think it did and was incredibly awkward for everyone.


Gordon wasn't traded, was an FA and at the time it seemed clear he would get the bag somewhere else.

Seems odd that he would do a meet and greet, but it is the Taste.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#35 » by Dan Z » Tue Sep 8, 2020 7:25 am

sco wrote:It is hard to say what happened to Gordon. Sometimes the big paydays come with too much stress...that could have contributed to his mental illness.

I was never a huge Gordon fan. He was a scorer, but his handle and defense would always limit his upside.


I think we could live with his poor defense, but his lack of dribbling ability was always going to limit him. If I remember correctly the Bulls used him in a way where he didn't have to handle the ball that much and basically just had to shoot (coming off screens).

When he wasn't in that role, and was asked to do more, that's when he regressed.

Obviously he would've been better than Bogans.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#36 » by ATRAIN53 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 1:39 pm

Staying here would not have mattered. He needed mental help.
He had suicidal thoughts.
He's posted the stories about his struggles.

It's a must read if you have not-

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/ben-gordon-mental-health-nba

He really was Curry before there was Curry.

If he was mentally all there and wanted it like Curry and had the mental foundation, he would be a Bulls legend.
He dragged this team from the trenches and made Chicago care about basketball after almost a decade of failure.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#37 » by DaMayor07 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 6:19 pm

That Boston Celtic series will be and is still the GOAT series. Purely the art of basketball, such poetry in motion... ahhhh it was so damn good

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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#38 » by Leslie Forman » Tue Sep 8, 2020 6:32 pm

prolific passer wrote:His game would be perfect for today's nba.

His shooting would obviously, but his lack of handles and passing would be an even bigger limitation. Other teams would target him defensively over and over as well.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#39 » by R3AL1TY » Tue Sep 8, 2020 8:31 pm

It's hard to say since you have off-court issues that may come into play. But If he could've overcome that and stayed with the Bulls while the front office ensured a winning culture, he would have been a player similar to Lavine: a borderline all-star, but the team would've required either a more balanced star or an elite player if they wanted to go further.

But the idea of him staying on the Bulls, Rose staying healthy, and Jimmy sticking around would have been interesting.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#40 » by HomoSapien » Tue Sep 8, 2020 8:40 pm

Even before the mental issues were public, I always felt like Gordon would have had an infinitely better career if he stayed in Chicago. I think he lost his way and mojo after being rejected by the Bulls and it set his career in a tailspin.

Had he been kept, I think his career is remembered extremely differently. He'd perpetually be in the playoffs year in and year out. He'd probably hit lots of memorable clutch shots (just like he did in Boston) and probably is looked at like that generation's Reggie Miller --- a good scorer, great shooter, who rose above his talent level in important games.

Also, Thibs killed it with small scoring guards. I think Gordon would have thrived in his system.
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