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How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed?

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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#41 » by InsideInfo » Tue Sep 8, 2020 8:59 pm

I dont think it would have worked out well for him.

Ben was a fun and exciting player to watch when offensively he was your best player. At that time you could be ok with him taking the last shot, or opting to shoot rather than pass to an open Luol Deng or Kirk Hinrich.

The year after he left was DRose first All Star year, and the following was his MVP season. I think people would have quickly got fed up with him taking the ball out of DRose hands and chucking shots.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#42 » by 2018C3 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 9:43 pm

If I remember things correctly, the Bulls did make Ben a fair offer that he initially declined and decided it would be in his best interests to test the market with other teams.

Once he did not get a better offer from any other teams, he came back to the Bulls with the intent to sign what was offered beforehand. The Bulls then pulled the original offer and left Ben hanging. I think he then accepted a lower offer to play with Detroit.

One thing I got to say, is he did provide us fans with some exciting moments. If the Bulls did not luck into Rose, his story may have been different here.

I think with Ben leaving, it helped give Rose a clear path to becoming the teams offensive alpha.

Cleveland also moved out a young 23 year old Ricky Davis who at one time was Cleveland's lead scorer with 20 Point a game, to make room for a young Lebron to take over that role.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#43 » by HomoSapien » Tue Sep 8, 2020 11:49 pm

2018C3 wrote:If I remember things correctly, the Bulls did make Ben a fair offer that he initially declined and decided it would be in his best interests to test the market with other teams.

Once he did not get a better offer from any other teams, he came back to the Bulls with the intent to sign what was offered beforehand. The Bulls then pulled the original offer and left Ben hanging. I think he then accepted a lower offer to play with Detroit.

One thing I got to say, is he did provide us fans with some exciting moments. If the Bulls did not luck into Rose, his story may have been different here.

I think with Ben leaving, it helped give Rose a clear path to becoming the teams offensive alpha.

Cleveland also moved out a young 23 year old Ricky Davis who at one time was Cleveland's lead scorer with 20 Point a game, to make room for a young Lebron to take over that role.


Close, they offered him something like a 5 year/$46m deal. They gave Gordon a deadline to accept it. Gordon decided to accept the offer but the Bulls pulled it. At the time it was reported that it was after the deadline, but years later it was reported that the Bulls pulled it before the deadline. Either way, the deadline felt like an arbitrary thing to get into the way of retaining a player you wanted to keep at the price you wanted to keep him. Gordon then signed for the qualifying offer and played the year out with the Bulls, and then the next off-season they didn't attempt (to my knowledge) to resign him. From an assets standpoint, they chose not to trade him and they also didn't resign him so it just felt like a waste of everyone's time.

Gordon, financially, was ultimately right about his value and found a Detroit team that was willing to pay him more than Chicago. The fit, however, was horrible and it killed his career and likely cost him in future earnings.

I actually felt like Gordon and Rose had good chemistry. When Salmons and Miller joined that team, their winning percentage I believe was around 60%. They also pushed a veteran Boston team, that everyone felt was significantly better, to the limits.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#44 » by 2018C3 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 12:48 am

Thanks for clarifying. My mind used to be so sharp on all these games / big play moments / and transactions, but with passing time I'm now starting to forget many of the details.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#45 » by prolific passer » Wed Sep 9, 2020 3:54 am

HomoSapien wrote:
2018C3 wrote:If I remember things correctly, the Bulls did make Ben a fair offer that he initially declined and decided it would be in his best interests to test the market with other teams.

Once he did not get a better offer from any other teams, he came back to the Bulls with the intent to sign what was offered beforehand. The Bulls then pulled the original offer and left Ben hanging. I think he then accepted a lower offer to play with Detroit.

One thing I got to say, is he did provide us fans with some exciting moments. If the Bulls did not luck into Rose, his story may have been different here.

I think with Ben leaving, it helped give Rose a clear path to becoming the teams offensive alpha.

Cleveland also moved out a young 23 year old Ricky Davis who at one time was Cleveland's lead scorer with 20 Point a game, to make room for a young Lebron to take over that role.


Close, they offered him something like a 5 year/$46m deal. They gave Gordon a deadline to accept it. Gordon decided to accept the offer but the Bulls pulled it. At the time it was reported that it was after the deadline, but years later it was reported that the Bulls pulled it after the deadline. Either way, the deadline felt like an arbitrary thing to get into the way of retaining a player you wanted to keep at the price you wanted to keep him. Gordon then signed for the qualifying offer and played the year out with the Bulls, and then the next off-season they didn't attempt (to my knowledge) to resign him. From an assets standpoint, they chose not to trade him and they also didn't resign him so it just felt like a waste of everyone's time.

Gordon, financially, was ultimately right about his value and found a Detroit team that was willing to pay him more than Chicago. The fit, however, was horrible and it killed his career and likely cost him in future earnings.

I actually felt like Gordon and Rose had good chemistry. When Salmons and Miller joined that team, their winning percentage I believe was around 60%. They also pushed a veteran Boston team, that everyone felt was significantly better, to the limits.

Yeah. Detroit was a bad fit with the 2 big guards who were there longer and established ahead of him. Gordon might have helped the Bulls in the 2011 ecf when Rose had Lebron on him and sometimes maybe double teamed. Of course the balls setting picks for Rose could have helped also.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#46 » by Axl Rose » Wed Sep 9, 2020 5:53 am

RedBulls23 wrote:Probably the same. His issues were injury related I believe, and no one has ever thought a player would do better with his health if he had stayed in Chicago.


This is something that goes unmentioned, but yeah Ben hurt his ankle early in his first season with the Pistons that he ended up needing surgery for. It is my belief that this may have limited him a bit athletically - in particular his lift. He also was a bad fit in Detroit and fell into an inconsistent role. Depression may have started seeping in aswell as a result of those things.

The injury question is impossible to know but in Chicago he probably would have kept a consistent and defined role on a much better team. I'd say his chances of continued success were much better had he remained with the Bulls.

I also agree with posters pointing out how good Gordon would have been in this era. Jamal Murray is someone with allot of similarities and look how good he is eating.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#47 » by prolific passer » Wed Sep 9, 2020 10:33 pm

Axl Rose wrote:
RedBulls23 wrote:Probably the same. His issues were injury related I believe, and no one has ever thought a player would do better with his health if he had stayed in Chicago.


This is something that goes unmentioned, but yeah Ben hurt his ankle early in his first season with the Pistons that he ended up needing surgery for. It is my belief that this may have limited him a bit athletically - in particular his lift. He also was a bad fit in Detroit and fell into an inconsistent role. Depression may have started seeping in aswell as a result of those things.

The injury question is impossible to know but in Chicago he probably would have kept a consistent and defined role on a much better team. I'd say his chances of continued success were much better had he remained with the Bulls.

I also agree with posters pointing out how good Gordon would have been in this era. Jamal Murray is someone with allot of similarities and look how good he is eating.

Gordon was a pretty healthy player during his 5 years with the bulls. Only played in 2 healthy seasons after he left.
I'm sure the bulls still continuing to make the playoffs after he left why he never made it again had some cause to his depression. As well as him not being able to play at the level like he did when he was with the bulls.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#48 » by ChiefILL53 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:38 am

I was one of the fans that didnt think he was worth the money he was asking for. I didnt like his sloppy ballhandling, his shot making was very good but just inconsistent and I just really didn't think he was worth the money he was asking for. Sad to see his career go the way that it did tho, happy to hear he's been doing better recently.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#49 » by DaMayor07 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:00 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:
prolific passer wrote:His game would be perfect for today's nba.

His shooting would obviously, but his lack of handles and passing would be an even bigger limitation. Other teams would target him defensively over and over as well.


BG7 was working/training with Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf at some point (maybe majority of) his playing career. BG7 had the chance to be a deadly 6th man
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#50 » by HomoSapien » Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:59 pm

DaMayor07 wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:
prolific passer wrote:His game would be perfect for today's nba.

His shooting would obviously, but his lack of handles and passing would be an even bigger limitation. Other teams would target him defensively over and over as well.


BG7 was working/training with Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf at some point (maybe majority of) his playing career. BG7 had the chance to be a deadly 6th man


Despite having dubious handles, he actually would have improved us in that regard considering that none of Deng, Bogans, Korver, or Brewer could handle or put the ball on the floor. CJ Watson was literally the only other guy who could consistently give Rose some relief. We really didn't give Rose the help he deserved.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#51 » by Mr. Tibbs » Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:56 pm

When I read his players only write up it seemed like most of his issues occurred post playing career and stemmed from lacking purpose without being a professional player anymore, unless i'm remembering it wrong.

I think his career would have been drastically better here, or in many places other than Detroit. But he also did seem just a step slower and his shot not quite as good/reliable in the years post Bulls..hard to tell if that was from a poor fit or if he just lost something.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#52 » by Mr. Tibbs » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:00 pm

HomoSapien wrote:
DaMayor07 wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:His shooting would obviously, but his lack of handles and passing would be an even bigger limitation. Other teams would target him defensively over and over as well.


BG7 was working/training with Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf at some point (maybe majority of) his playing career. BG7 had the chance to be a deadly 6th man


Despite having dubious handles, he actually would have improved us in that regard considering that none of Deng, Bogans, Korver, or Brewer could handle or put the ball on the floor. CJ Watson was literally the only other guy who could consistently give Rose some relief. We really didn't give Rose the help he deserved.


This. The individual playmaking outside of Rose was so anemic, I remember thinking dealing for Marcus Thornton could have been the missing piece.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#53 » by 2018C3 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:47 pm

HomoSapien wrote:
DaMayor07 wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:His shooting would obviously, but his lack of handles and passing would be an even bigger limitation. Other teams would target him defensively over and over as well.


BG7 was working/training with Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf at some point (maybe majority of) his playing career. BG7 had the chance to be a deadly 6th man


Despite having dubious handles, he actually would have improved us in that regard considering that none of Deng, Bogans, Korver, or Brewer could handle or put the ball on the floor. CJ Watson was literally the only other guy who could consistently give Rose some relief. We really didn't give Rose the help he deserved.



True. but for just a little bit Rose was good enough to put us in contention. If he stayed healthy we would have had a chance, and other moves may have been made to tweak what we had. The Rose injury and his contract really hurt this teams chances, the front office waited to long to adjust. (Pax had a good solid plan, in just did not work out).

Even After Rose went down the team still finished the following season with a respectable record. You can't say his cast was terrible. (Yes, it could have been better).

The team made the playoffs 7 strait years from form 2009 to 2015. That's the 2nd greatest consecutive playoff run in franchise history.

In retrospect, it was also a pretty fun time to be a Bulls fan. I just wish Pax would have realized the opportunity he had in front of him, and made more moves that would have shortened this window in-order put the rest of the team over the top. (That would have meant trading Rose Sooner). It would have been a gutsy move that may have payed off. He waited too long.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#54 » by prolific passer » Thu Sep 10, 2020 9:41 pm

Gordon could have helped solidify the bench and still would have gotten his 30mpg in with Bogans only playing 18mpg in 2011. I wonder if the bulls would have still been able to sign the likes of Watson, Korver, Brewer, and Kurt Thomas if they kept Gordon?
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#55 » by Adriano » Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:46 pm

I really think he could be the missing piece in 2011 campaign, assuming he stayed healthy (as he was during his time with us). Also, if LeBron / Wade / Bosh didnt toy with the league in 2010 FA we might never have trade Hinrich to Wizards for cap space and Rose would have a secondary ball hander in that series.

Rose / Hinrich
Hinrich / Gordon /Bogans
Deng / Bogans
Boozer / Taj
Noah / Asik

I really think Hinrich / Gordon in the place of Korver / Brewer would be huge for us against the 2011 Heat.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#56 » by prolific passer » Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:53 pm

How many games would the Bulls have won with Gordon added to that 62 win unit?
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#57 » by Adriano » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:00 pm

prolific passer wrote:How many games would the Bulls have won with Gordon added to that 62 win unit?

For regular season I dont think would be much different because in Thibs mind every regular season game is a game 7 of NBA finals.

I think the real difference would be when matters most... The playoffs.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#58 » by prolific passer » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:49 pm

Adriano wrote:
prolific passer wrote:How many games would the Bulls have won with Gordon added to that 62 win unit?

For regular season I dont think would be much different because in Thibs mind every regular season game is a game 7 of NBA finals.

I think the real difference would be when matters most... The playoffs.

Ok. How do you think the bulls would have done in the playoffs with Gordon added to the 2011 team?
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#59 » by wickywack » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:40 pm

Adriano wrote:I really think he could be the missing piece in 2011 campaign, assuming he stayed healthy (as he was during his time with us). Also, if LeBron / Wade / Bosh didnt toy with the league in 2010 FA we might never have trade Hinrich to Wizards for cap space and Rose would have a secondary ball hander in that series.

Rose / Hinrich
Hinrich / Gordon /Bogans
Deng / Bogans
Boozer / Taj
Noah / Asik

I really think Hinrich / Gordon in the place of Korver / Brewer would be huge for us against the 2011 Heat.


I could be wrong, but I don't think the Bulls had cap space for that. Gordon alone made more than Korver and Brewer combined in 11, and trading Hinrich was necessary to open that cap space. If you're keeping Gordon, you probably need to drop one of Hinrich, Deng, or Boozer as well.
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Re: How would Ben Gordon's career looked if he would have stayed? 

Post#60 » by Adriano » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:11 pm

prolific passer wrote:
Adriano wrote:
prolific passer wrote:How many games would the Bulls have won with Gordon added to that 62 win unit?

For regular season I dont think would be much different because in Thibs mind every regular season game is a game 7 of NBA finals.

I think the real difference would be when matters most... The playoffs.

Ok. How do you think the bulls would have done in the playoffs with Gordon added to the 2011 team?


Assuming he is plaiyng in the level he was when he left, I really like our chances against the 2011 Heat. Just look what Jason Terry did to them in the finals! Ok, we surely didnt have an Dirk Nowitzki, but we have the MVP Rose, prime Noah, Carlos Boozer, Taj Gibson. Gordon shooting would be huge, especially when Spoelstra puts LeBron to defend Rose.
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