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NBA Trade Thread #2

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Re: NBA Trade Thread #2 

Post#1641 » by dpucane » Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:12 pm

Onibuh wrote:
dpucane wrote:
Onibuh wrote:Why should the Bulls look to trade Lavine, White or all those players that got better and made steps forward since last season? That's not how you improve your team.
Because this roster has a ceiling and the goal is not to get low playoff seeds the goal is to build a championship window

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The ceiling is to improve as a team, play better and more competitive. Get closer to the POs, make the POs and your team will become a destination for the Stars. That's how you need to do it and the Bulls ceiling isn't really set in stone with the way Williams performs, White has improved, Lavine buys in and Carter/Gafford looking like better as well. Imagine them being able to not pay Lauri, let go Otto and get a FA that is close to a star player... This roster would open the window pretty soon and would be 1 Kawhi to Toronto Trade away.
All by not being a **** and stupid franchise.
How many times do you wanna get stood up at the dance?

I'd rather give AKME chances to draft stars.

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Re: NBA Trade Thread #2 

Post#1642 » by sco » Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:14 pm

BigJimFinn wrote:
gardenofsound wrote:I don't think the Bulls should be sending picks out for non all-NBA players. Our picks project to be too valuable for that.

Here are some of the things going through my head:

Approach Cleveland (Kevin Love) or Detroit (Blake Griffin) with a similar proposal:

Bulls out: OPJ, Lauri Markkanen
Bulls in: Love or Griffin, 2021 draft swap rights, 2022 top 4 protected, 2023 swap rights

(I know Detroit has already traded their 2021 pick, but it's 1-16 protected and let's be real, they aren't a playoff team yet, so they're going to keep the pick this year).

Why? Both are really bad contracts (Griffin is almost guaranteed to exercise his PO next season at close to $40mm, and Love has two years remaining after this year, with declining performance). The Bulls unlink their own record from their draft positioning for 2 out of the next three years, and, when healthy, the returning players slot into the starting lineup as decent options to continue the Bulls' push towards a winning mentality.

For Detroit or Cleveland, they're getting out of their bad money while also getting match rights on Lauri.

Bulls could also approach GSW with similar framework proposals for Draymond and/or Wiggins. Or even Philadelphia with Tobias Harris, who has even longer term big money.

Honestly, this lineup may be pretty strong to finish out the year...:
G1 White / Sato / Arcidiacono
G2 LaVine / Temple
SF Williams / Hutch
PF Love or Griffin / Thad
C Carter / Gafford

You upgrade rebounding (currently a deficiency), and, assuming Lauri's shooting thus far this season is an aberration, you're likely upgrading your shooting and playmaking as well. Both Love and Griffin are known for their court vision/awareness and outlet passing to kick off a break.


You are also assuming that Blake Griffin everything thus far this season is an aberration.
The Ringer just put out an article https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/1/12/22226233/blake-griffin-untradable-detroit-pistons
about how bad and untradable he has been. He isn't driving or earning FT's, has zero dunks or blocks all season, isn't rebounding, but is shooting a lot of 3s at bad percentage. Passing is the only thing where he is better than Lauri at the moment, but bringing in a former big name star long past their sell-by date would be a classic Bull move. Fortunately I have no reason to believe the new front office would do **** like this. Griffin per game stat line this season:
32 mins, 14pts, 5.7 rebs, 7 3PA at 29%, TS% 50, 4 ast, 1 steal.
And you think getting him for Otto and Lauri would make the Bulls better?

Love is a different issue because his floor-bound game is naturally aging better, but he is currently out with injury, and still I cannot see him making a meaningful difference. If Lauri isn't a PF for the modern NBA, then Love is a worse fit, and he isn't a rim protector as small ball 5 either, plus much less mobile on the perimeter.

You need a lot of faith into discovering a fountain of youth to believe either of these overpaid has-beens would "continue the push towards a winning mentality". Neither has been playing winning basketball for several years now. The only star-level thing about them is their salaries.

I agree, Blake is totally done. Love isn't done, but his contract extends 2 more seasons after this one at around $30 million per, and while he may have something left in the tank, he won't for 2 more seasons. The only way I take Love is if I were to get another good asset back in addition, Okoro isn't likely, but maybe Garland?
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Re: NBA Trade Thread #2 

Post#1643 » by MrSparkle » Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:24 pm

If there are two starting PFs that Lauri is undeniably better than, they are Griffin and Love. There is no chance in hell I'd trade for either.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread #2 

Post#1644 » by sco » Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:36 pm

what about Otto/Lauri/Hutch for Lowry/OG?
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Re: NBA Trade Thread #2 

Post#1645 » by gardenofsound » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:13 pm

sco wrote:
BigJimFinn wrote:
gardenofsound wrote:I don't think the Bulls should be sending picks out for non all-NBA players. Our picks project to be too valuable for that.

Here are some of the things going through my head:

Approach Cleveland (Kevin Love) or Detroit (Blake Griffin) with a similar proposal:

Bulls out: OPJ, Lauri Markkanen
Bulls in: Love or Griffin, 2021 draft swap rights, 2022 top 4 protected, 2023 swap rights

(I know Detroit has already traded their 2021 pick, but it's 1-16 protected and let's be real, they aren't a playoff team yet, so they're going to keep the pick this year).

Why? Both are really bad contracts (Griffin is almost guaranteed to exercise his PO next season at close to $40mm, and Love has two years remaining after this year, with declining performance). The Bulls unlink their own record from their draft positioning for 2 out of the next three years, and, when healthy, the returning players slot into the starting lineup as decent options to continue the Bulls' push towards a winning mentality.

For Detroit or Cleveland, they're getting out of their bad money while also getting match rights on Lauri.

Bulls could also approach GSW with similar framework proposals for Draymond and/or Wiggins. Or even Philadelphia with Tobias Harris, who has even longer term big money.

Honestly, this lineup may be pretty strong to finish out the year...:
G1 White / Sato / Arcidiacono
G2 LaVine / Temple
SF Williams / Hutch
PF Love or Griffin / Thad
C Carter / Gafford

You upgrade rebounding (currently a deficiency), and, assuming Lauri's shooting thus far this season is an aberration, you're likely upgrading your shooting and playmaking as well. Both Love and Griffin are known for their court vision/awareness and outlet passing to kick off a break.


You are also assuming that Blake Griffin everything thus far this season is an aberration.
The Ringer just put out an article https://www.theringer.com/nba/2021/1/12/22226233/blake-griffin-untradable-detroit-pistons
about how bad and untradable he has been. He isn't driving or earning FT's, has zero dunks or blocks all season, isn't rebounding, but is shooting a lot of 3s at bad percentage. Passing is the only thing where he is better than Lauri at the moment, but bringing in a former big name star long past their sell-by date would be a classic Bull move. Fortunately I have no reason to believe the new front office would do **** like this. Griffin per game stat line this season:
32 mins, 14pts, 5.7 rebs, 7 3PA at 29%, TS% 50, 4 ast, 1 steal.
And you think getting him for Otto and Lauri would make the Bulls better?

Love is a different issue because his floor-bound game is naturally aging better, but he is currently out with injury, and still I cannot see him making a meaningful difference. If Lauri isn't a PF for the modern NBA, then Love is a worse fit, and he isn't a rim protector as small ball 5 either, plus much less mobile on the perimeter.

You need a lot of faith into discovering a fountain of youth to believe either of these overpaid has-beens would "continue the push towards a winning mentality". Neither has been playing winning basketball for several years now. The only star-level thing about them is their salaries.

I agree, Blake is totally done. Love isn't done, but his contract extends 2 more seasons after this one at around $30 million per, and while he may have something left in the tank, he won't for 2 more seasons. The only way I take Love is if I were to get another good asset back in addition, Okoro isn't likely, but maybe Garland?


Wouldn't that lightly protected '22 pick (in the expected "double draft") be adequate in a Love deal?

I also question how much of Griffin's decline is scheme/role related. He also would only have one year left on his deal after this season, which is why I valued Griffin and Love as relatively equal in terms of the value they should fetch on the market.

Lastly, whether it's Markkanen and Porter or Griffin, the Pistons still project to be a high lottery team this year. Pick swap rights are just another way of maximizing the potential of landing a top 3 pick. To me, it's the strategic move that's still possible to sell to the rest of the team.

If the goal is to maximize our chances to get one of the marquee draft picks in 2021 without sacrificing any long-term core pieces, then I think these are the types of deals the Bulls will need to shoot for.

Hell, you could even do Wiggins for OPJ with the Bulls getting a future 1st to go along with getting the best of GSW/MIN/CHI 2021 FRP's.

I mean, how about this for a suite of moves?

Deal 1:
CHI-->GSW: Otto Porter
GSW-->CHI: Andrew Wiggins, swap rights on the MIN 21 FRP, 2022 protected GSW FRP (let's say top 5 protected, becomes unprotected 2023 if not conveyed)

Deal 2:
CHI-->CLE: Lauri Markkanen, Thaddeus Young, Cristiano Felicio, Luke Kornet
CLE-->CHI: Kevin Love, 2021 FRP swap rights, 2022 protected CLE FRP (top 4 protected?), 2023 FRP swap rights

Transaction 3 and 4 : sign Noah Vonleh and Dewayne Dedmon for the rest of the year.

To finish the year:
G1 White / Satoransky
G2 LaVine / Wiggins / Temple
SF Williams / Hutch
PF Love / Vonleh
C Carter / Gafford / Dedmon

I'm not sure the above team is markedly worse than the current team we have on the floor. But now look ahead to the drafts:

2021: The Bulls would get the best of the MIN, CLE, and CHI picks, which mitigates any tanking incentive and allows the Bulls to play to win while still being relatively sure of a franchise-altering player being available to them in the draft.
2022: net three FRP's in the expected double-draft (assuming lotto protections don't kick in).
2023: Bulls get best of CHI/CLE picks, and hopefully by this time, Williams is showing out as a higher tier starter, LaVine (if still around) is coming off of his 2nd or 3rd ASG appearance, and there's big expiring money with Love and Wiggins' contracts expiring, and the Bulls core of LaVine, Williams, White(?) are looking

No one from the "core" gets sacrificed as part of these deals, and the Bulls are absolutely taking on bad money but they're getting valuable future assets in return. And while they're not great players, Wiggins and Love won't be expected to rack up DNP-CD's or anything. They're both serviceable players.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread #2 

Post#1646 » by dpucane » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:07 pm

sco wrote:what about Otto/Lauri/Hutch for Lowry/OG?
OG might be 1st team all defense. He's only being moved for a star.

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Re: NBA Trade Thread #2 

Post#1647 » by ChettheJet » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:11 pm

If GSW would be willing to give up anything in addition to Wiggins for Porter there would be a league wide GASP. No matter how badly they want to not have Wiggins on their team just pushing him out the door is unbelievable.

I know Love puts up better numbers than Markkanen or Young ever did but I find them to be hollow. Has he really ever been the difference in leading a team deep in the playoffs? For as long as he's been in the league I don't see him fitting in with young guys like Carter, White and Williams nor sharing the top dog role with Lavine. It's pure guesswork as to where those CLE picks will end up, are they for real a dozen games into this year or will they revert to where they were the last few years? I don't know that they want to gamble on Markkanen that much or resign him and that's a steep price for getting rid of Love.

Are the Bulls really well served by trading for Wiggins and by your depth chart making him the backup SG? Even if he backed up Williams, it would make much more sense to have PW take the minutes behind Love and also give Wiggins the backup SF minutes over Hutchison.

sco wrote:what about Otto/Lauri/Hutch for Lowry/OG?


I'd have to see TOR be willing to trade Lowery for that list of completely expendable Bulls.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread #2 

Post#1648 » by sco » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:14 pm

dpucane wrote:
sco wrote:what about Otto/Lauri/Hutch for Lowry/OG?
OG might be 1st team all defense. He's only being moved for a star.

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You must not spend much time on the Bulls RealGM board, otherwise you'd know that Lauri is a star. I understand that he is actually too good for the Bulls.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread #2 

Post#1649 » by The Evidence » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:59 am

Harden for Cobi, Lauri, Otto, 2021 1st Rounder

#YOLO
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Re: NBA Trade Thread #2 

Post#1650 » by Dez » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:31 am

The Evidence wrote:Harden for Cobi, Lauri, Otto, 2021 1st Rounder

#YOLO


Houston is going to want a hell of a lot more than that.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread #2 

Post#1651 » by nomorezorro » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:47 am

harden for zach + lauri + felicio + 1st....who says no....
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Re: NBA Trade Thread #2 

Post#1652 » by PrimzyBulls81 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:01 am

White, Lauri, Otto, Felicio and 1st rounder 2021 for Harden and Tucker , salaries match - 48M in/out ,take it or leave it LOL

BULLS :
Harden, Lavine, Williams, Young, Carter
Sato, Arci, Mokoka, Temple, Valentine, Hutch, Tucker, Gafford, Kornet

Next trade WCJ and Hutch for legit defensive C, someone like Steve Adams!

Houston : totally revamped first lineup, with Otto and Felicio FA in 2021,they clear 35M for another good player

Wall, White, Otto, Markannen, Wood
Gordon, Nwaba, Brown, McLemore, Tate, Caboclo, Cousins, Felicio
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Re: NBA Trade Thread #2 

Post#1653 » by MisterRoy » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:17 pm

PrimzyBulls81 wrote:White, Lauri, Otto, Felicio and 1st rounder 2021 for Harden and Tucker , salaries match - 48M in/out ,take it or leave it LOL

BULLS :
Harden, Lavine, Williams, Young, Carter
Sato, Arci, Mokoka, Temple, Valentine, Hutch, Tucker, Gafford, Kornet

Next trade WCJ and Hutch for legit defensive C, someone like Steve Adams!

Houston : totally revamped first lineup, with Otto and Felicio FA in 2021,they clear 35M for another good player

Wall, White, Otto, Markannen, Wood
Gordon, Nwaba, Brown, McLemore, Tate, Caboclo, Cousins, Felicio

Entertaining this for conversation sake, I think we'd need to move Hutch or Denzel for a back up 4 or get another team involved to take Tucker for a backup 4. However, I think Zacks production goes down because Harden is too much offense.


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Re: NBA Trade Thread #2 

Post#1654 » by pipfan » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:12 pm

I like the idea of Ball. Sato/protected pick (top 10 or lottery) for Lonzo.

White becomes a 30 min 6th man, and we improve our D/passing in the starting lineup. I think Ball just needs more time to find his niche.
Ball/White
Lavine/White
Williams/Hutch
Lauri/Young
Carter/Gafford

that team could win some games next year
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Re: NBA Trade Thread #2 

Post#1655 » by sco » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:52 pm

Want to get in on Philly's interest in Beal...what about:

Bulls out: Porter/Lauri in:Harris
Wiz out: Beal in: Otto, Lauri, Philly 1st
Philly out: Harris, 2021 1st in: Beal
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Re: NBA Trade Thread #2 

Post#1656 » by sco » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:42 pm

If HOU is blowing things up, what about:

Wall/Tucker for Otto/Lauri/Felico/Valentine

Lauri/Woods could make for an interesting front court for the future. They'd also get a free look at Val. It also frees them from Wall's $$$. For us, IMO, Wall, if healthy (and he looks healthy), would be an interesting PG to pair with Zach.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread #2 

Post#1657 » by Kukoc-Lauri » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:36 pm

Lavine,Porter,Felicio for Brooks,Winslow,Allen,Dieng and Memphis 2021 first round pick unprotected. Bulls send Brooks to Milwaukee for DJ Wilson and second round pick. Bulls clear cap space for two max slots in 21 and potentially two top 10 picks in 2021 stacked draft. Memphis gets big three with Morant,Lavine,Jackson.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread #2 

Post#1658 » by MisterRoy » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:22 pm

sco wrote:If HOU is blowing things up, what about:

Wall/Tucker for Otto/Lauri/Felico/Valentine

Lauri/Woods could make for an interesting front court for the future. They'd also get a free look at Val. It also frees them from Wall's $$$. For us, IMO, Wall, if healthy (and he looks healthy), would be an interesting PG to pair with Zach.

I would take a flyer on this one. A real PG and Coby as sixth man scorer. I like it.


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Re: NBA Trade Thread #2 

Post#1659 » by VolumePoster » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:38 pm

sco wrote:If HOU is blowing things up, what about:

Wall/Tucker for Otto/Lauri/Felico/Valentine

Lauri/Woods could make for an interesting front court for the future. They'd also get a free look at Val. It also frees them from Wall's $$$. For us, IMO, Wall, if healthy (and he looks healthy), would be an interesting PG to pair with Zach.


I’d be interested in Wall as well. To my mind the most pressing need is a veteran point who can defend the perimeter.

The price of Wall, and the Rockets willingness to move him, will depend on the return for Harden. I would not be in a hurry to move Lauri.
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Re: NBA Trade Thread #2 

Post#1660 » by The Evidence » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:48 pm

Dez wrote:Houston is going to want a hell of a lot more than that.

Sure, and I'm not even seriously suggesting it.

But is a PG that shoots 11% from 3P really that much better than our pieces?

Especially when they're committed to Wall for another 3 years?

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