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2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2

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Who do you want?

Ball
24
20%
Wiseman
16
13%
Deni
31
25%
Hayes
25
20%
Obi
4
3%
Vassell
9
7%
Okoro
2
2%
Haliburton
5
4%
Onyeka
3
2%
Other
4
3%
 
Total votes: 123

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2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1 » by Jvaughn » Tue Sep 8, 2020 2:36 am

Not sure what happened to the last thread, so making a new one.

Edit: Poll added to see where everyone sits on prospects at 4.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#2 » by Grodoboldo » Tue Sep 8, 2020 2:46 am

So, who do we like in the 2nd round?
I like Bane, Bolmaro, Reed, Flynn, Tillie and Oturu.
I don't know anything about college basketball. I would rather trade down/out. My Bulls big board for the 2020 Draft (as of September 4th):
1-Edwards; 2-Hayes; 3-Ball; 4-Avdija; 5-Haliburton; 6-Nesmith; 7-Vassel; 8-Okongwu; 9-Williams; 10-Pokusevski.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#3 » by KevinPandawong » Tue Sep 8, 2020 2:58 am

I'm surprised Hayes is solidifying himself at #4 on mock drafts around the web. I'm even more surprised Ball and Wiseman are locked-in as top-3 prospects. The media has pushed them hard but I just can't see Golden State or even Charlotte passing on Haliburton for either one of them. If Karnisovas stands pat and Haliburton is available, I'd be pretty disappointed with any other prospect over him.

Bane, Ramsey, and Terry have fully emerged from under the radar, I'd love to get a mid-late 1st but realistically what do the Bulls have to offer? I can't see Markkanen, Carter, White, or Gafford being traded before playing next season, let alone before the team finds a coach. Young is the player most likely to be moved, but is any team really willing to give up a 1st for him?

2nd round seems to be more erratic than usual, it's hard to judge who will likely be available at #44. Out of the prospects I'm assuming will be available; Isaiah Joe, Elijah Hughes, and Nate Hinton are my favorites.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/isaiah-joe-1.html


https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/elijah-hughes-1.html


https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/nate-hinton-1.html
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#4 » by Pax for Prez » Tue Sep 8, 2020 3:10 am

KevinPandawong wrote:I'm surprised Hayes is solidifying himself at #4 on mock drafts around the web. I'm even more surprised Ball and Wiseman are locked-in as top-3 prospects. The media has pushed them hard but I just can't see Golden State or even Charlotte passing on Haliburton for either one of them. If Karnisovas stands pat and Haliburton is available, I'd be pretty disappointed with any other prospect over him.

Bane, Ramsey, and Terry have fully emerged from under the radar, I'd love to get a mid-late 1st but realistically what do the Bulls have to offer? I can't see Markkanen, Carter, White, or Gafford being traded before playing next season, let alone before the team finds a coach. Young is the player most likely to be moved, but is any team really willing to give up a 1st for him?

2nd round seems to be more erratic than usual, it's hard to judge who will likely be available at #44. Out of the prospects I'm assuming will be available; Isaiah Joe, Elijah Hughes, and Nate Hinton are my favorites.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/isaiah-joe-1.html


https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/elijah-hughes-1.html


https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/nate-hinton-1.html


Out of those 3 I like Hughes the best !
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#5 » by CjayC » Tue Sep 8, 2020 3:18 am

I think Avdija's going #2 if GS can't trade back or package a deal to dump Wiggins' salary for an expiring. I think Wiseman will slide out of the Top 3. I just can't see the Warriors whose championship window is right now, having the patience to groom a young big. Plus the lack of meaningful film out there on Wiseman probably hurts him too, relative to the other guys. On paper Deni fits what they're trying to do. Can't see them having the patience to groom Ball or Hayes either, but I wouldn't discount Haliburton if they must take a PG.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#6 » by PlayerUp » Tue Sep 8, 2020 3:28 am

Grodoboldo wrote:So, who do we like in the 2nd round?
I like Bane, Bolmaro, Reed, Flynn, Tillie and Oturu.


Your list is similar to mine.

We should be looking to add a 3rd pick (Late 1st/Early 2nd) via a cash purchase and clearing up our roster spots by waiving players like Felicio who will be playing overseas in 2021.

2nd Rd Prospects On My List If They Drop

Aleksej Pokusevski
Kira Lewis
Desmond Bane
Jalen Smith
Paul Reed Jr
Daniel Oturu
Malachi Flynn
Leandro Bolmaro
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#7 » by kodo » Tue Sep 8, 2020 3:49 am

I think Wiseman is the most likely to drop to Chicago. The big question will be if AK takes a relative value pick like him at the #4 or goes for someone lower on most boards like Haliburton or Hayes. Deni, Ball, Edwards most likely gone by 4.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#8 » by Bandit King » Tue Sep 8, 2020 3:50 am

Take the best player available and trade the underperforming kids for some vets.
All Hail Arturas Karnisovas!
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#9 » by PlayerUp » Tue Sep 8, 2020 4:22 am

Bandit King wrote:Take the best player available and trade the underperforming kids for some vets.


We don't need vets, we're not contending. If we're moving pieces, we should be looking for assets back.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#10 » by PaKii94 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 5:40 am

Voting for vassell!
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#11 » by MrFortune3 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 5:43 am

Would love to see us trade back into the 1st for McDaniels or Green.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#12 » by Grodoboldo » Tue Sep 8, 2020 10:55 am

PlayerUp wrote:
Grodoboldo wrote:So, who do we like in the 2nd round?
I like Bane, Bolmaro, Reed, Flynn, Tillie and Oturu.


Your list is similar to mine.

We should be looking to add a 3rd pick (Late 1st/Early 2nd) via a cash purchase and clearing up our roster spots by waiving players like Felicio who will be playing overseas in 2021.

2nd Rd Prospects On My List If They Drop

Aleksej Pokusevski
Kira Lewis
Desmond Bane
Jalen Smith
Paul Reed Jr
Daniel Oturu
Malachi Flynn
Leandro Bolmaro


Agreed. I think this draft will have plenty of productive role players.
I don't know anything about college basketball. I would rather trade down/out. My Bulls big board for the 2020 Draft (as of September 4th):
1-Edwards; 2-Hayes; 3-Ball; 4-Avdija; 5-Haliburton; 6-Nesmith; 7-Vassel; 8-Okongwu; 9-Williams; 10-Pokusevski.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#13 » by JohnnyTapwater » Tue Sep 8, 2020 11:11 am

My Bulls board is more robust than I thought.

STARS -BOLD
SLEEPER -BLUE

4th Pick -

1. LaMelo Ball - PG
2. James Wiseman - C
3. Deni Avdija - SF


Trading Back -

1. Tyrese Haliburton -PG
2. Devin Vassell - SG/SF
3. Aaron Nesmith - SG/SF
4. RJ Hampton -CG
5. Kira Lewis Jr. -PG


Late 1st Round Options

1. Leandro Bolmaro -SG/SF
2. Jalen Smith -PF
3. Jahmius Ramsey -SG

4. Aleksej Pokusevski -SF/PF
5. Tyrell Terry -PG

44th pick

1. Cassius Winston -PG
2. Desmond Bane -SG/SF
3. Tre Jones -PG
4. Grant Riller -SG
5. Mason Jones -SG
6. Josh Green -SG
7. Tevin Brown -SG
8. Nate Hinton -SG

9. Malachi Flynn -PG
10. Markus Howard -SG
11. Isaiah Joe -SG
12. Jay Scrubb -SG


Dream scenarios. MY DREAM

#1 -
4th -James Wiseman
Trade WCJ to a team that would net us Devin Vassell
44 -Cassius Winston
UDFA -Desmond Bane

#2 -
4th -Deni Avdija
Trade WCJ to a team that would net us Tyrese Haliburton
Buy a 1st for -Jalen Smith
44 - Desmond Bane
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#14 » by LateNight » Tue Sep 8, 2020 2:23 pm

The more I look into him, the more interested I am in Nate Hinton.

Stepien Analysis: https://www.thestepien.com/2019/09/12/draft-notes-nate-hintons-uniqueness/

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#15 » by The Box Office » Tue Sep 8, 2020 2:45 pm

LateNight wrote:The more I look into him, the more interested I am in Nate Hinton.

Stepien Analysis: https://www.thestepien.com/2019/09/12/draft-notes-nate-hintons-uniqueness/



Not bad. Worth a look. In today's NBA of 3 point bukkake, good perimeter defenders are very much needed.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#16 » by ChettheJet » Tue Sep 8, 2020 2:59 pm

With the limited information on almost every top prospect I'm for drafting Avdija. Like all the others, if he fulfills the potential everyone projects in a draft pick, he could be the point forward that gives the Bulls a different look on offense. Looking at Doncic, looking back a Toni Kukoc, he could be the SF who passes more than teams are used to defending, Lavine doesn't need the ball in his hands all the time, White can be more combo guard and doesn't have to change his game to be the typical PG nor do they have to go get that prototypical PG to push White to the 6th man role.


CjayC wrote:I think Avdija's going #2 if GS can't trade back or package a deal to dump Wiggins' salary for an expiring. I think Wiseman will slide out of the Top 3. I just can't see the Warriors whose championship window is right now, having the patience to groom a young big. Plus the lack of meaningful film out there on Wiseman probably hurts him too, relative to the other guys. On paper Deni fits what they're trying to do. Can't see them having the patience to groom Ball or Hayes either, but I wouldn't discount Haliburton if they must take a PG.



I see GSW most likely to trade the pick, with or without Wiggins, for a veteran who contributes for a couple of years, and one of those 3,4,5 years in the future FRP, while they have their current roster and title window is open. There isn't a rookie who is going to come in and help this year so no real reason to trade down this year. They can always work on trading Wiggins later when some Eastern team has an injury and thinks they are in their window and feels desperate.


Bandit King wrote:Take the best player available and trade the underperforming kids for some vets.


I agree on underperforming or just topped out on talent and not good enough for an NBA rotation.
If somebody wants Hutchison he goes, too many injuries, you see flashes that he's good enough to start and be a 4th? option but only flashes and then injured again. Arcidiacono, the difference between a scrappy player and a crappy player is the 's', he at his ceiling. Harrison, on the stats he improved his 3py shooting, that was the result of 4-5 games where he was super hot didn't do it before or after that short streak. Valentine has some strong games where you think he's you're 6th man, then he's flat and just out there. If he suddenly 'clicks' with another team, good for both. Dunn is a great defender, fair playmaker PG, gets to the basket, but he hasn't improved his shooting and doesn't have the range the Bulls require with only a limited number of shooters off the bench. And there's the annual injury, and it's not the same thing recurring it's something new every time.

And them to the unhappy Young and just get some fresh faces.

People get caught up suggesting trades for Porter Lavine, Markkanen or Carter and getting some windfall of picks and talent. That's so unrealistic it's silly. The back end of the bench is what can be changed and where they can gamble on players who haven't gotten much of a chance where they came from but could become more than they've shown. They're also easily replaced.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#17 » by TheSuzerain » Tue Sep 8, 2020 3:12 pm

Going off NBADraft.net, I'd be interested in Nate Hinton, Grant Riller, Uros Trifunovic, or Trevelin Queen.

Jump all over Markus Howard if he goes undrafted.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#18 » by Ugly Duckling » Tue Sep 8, 2020 3:42 pm

ChettheJet wrote:With the limited information on almost every top prospect I'm for drafting Avdija. Like all the others, if he fulfills the potential everyone projects in a draft pick, he could be the point forward that gives the Bulls a different look on offense. Looking at Doncic, looking back a Toni Kukoc, he could be the SF who passes more than teams are used to defending, Lavine doesn't need the ball in his hands all the time, White can be more combo guard and doesn't have to change his game to be the typical PG nor do they have to go get that prototypical PG to push White to the 6th man role.


We could def use a point forward. That's our biggest hole. It'll allow us to start Coby. But we need someone who's a defensive stopper too, which I don't know if Advija can become. He's a skilled player, no doubt, but I don't see any Doncic in him. Maybe some Kukoc down the line if he really develops his shot. But like I said, we need a lockdown defender at the wing if we're going to play Coby, Zach and Lauri. That's why I think it's better to draft someone like Toppin and trade Lauri (or even keep him and make him compete). That way we'll have an explosive front court player and can try running Porter (if he's healthy)
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#19 » by TheSuzerain » Tue Sep 8, 2020 3:56 pm

Any time you ask yourself how we can use the #4 pick to fit in with our current players, you should put $1 in a jar.

Our core is terrible. White, Lavine, Lauri, WCJ. It's basura.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#20 » by MGB8 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 4:12 pm

kodo wrote:I think Wiseman is the most likely to drop to Chicago. The big question will be if AK takes a relative value pick like him at the #4 or goes for someone lower on most boards like Haliburton or Hayes. Deni, Ball, Edwards most likely gone by 4.


I hope they draft him if he drops to 4.

The thing that Wiseman would do - assuming sort of "mid-level" projection in terms of his development (becoming a very strong interior defender with ability to move in space, strong rebounder, rolo or rolo+ level offensive player in the half court and better than that in transition) would be that it would allow the Bulls, IMO, to switch to the more modern lineup of: Guard, Guard (preferably with wing size), Wing, Wing with some forwardish abilities, Center --- with all the perimeter players able to shoot from deep and create their own shot to at least a mid-level degree (when guarded by a wing).

To build a contention-level team with that framework (as opposed to with overwhelming, mega-star talent), it seems like you need a pretty darn good defensive center to impact driving lanes and allow your other defenders to play tighter at the 3 point line (because of the "backstop"), who can also help with the rebounding issues that can happen when going small and, on offense, take advantage of super-small ball teams. I don't feel like Carter really provides that. He's passable if everything else is elite - but doesn't seem to add anything other than "not being a liability" in any particular facet. I doubt that Gafford will develop into the kind of defensive anchor and offensive non-liability that I'm discussing, either. And Markannen doesn't have the defensive aspect as a 5 - though frankly I'd stick him at the 5 and just hope the offensive advantage outweighs the defensive liability, knowing that when he's motivated and healthy, he *can* rebound at a solid level.

If Wiseman trends towards the high end of his potential, then he becomes a game changer on both ends - if he develops a longer range shot (where he shoots over 80% from FT) and a bit of post game (along with high end defense) he could be a pre-injury AK47-type. You put that on the back end behind Coby and LaVine, and then you just need to find your two wings (where the only guy in the draft that I see as potentially one of those two wings that deserves to be in the high lotto conversation is Vassell, and the FT shooting is definitely a red flag, though I'm less concerned about the strength issue - particularly looking at how a guy like Ingram developed).

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