Image ImageImage Image

2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2

Moderators: HomoSapien, fleet, RedBulls23, Ice Man, AshyLarrysDiaper, Tommy Udo 6 , GimmeDat, dougthonus, Payt10, DASMACKDOWN, kulaz3000

Who do you want?

Ball
27
16%
Wiseman
29
18%
Deni
41
25%
Hayes
31
19%
Obi
4
2%
Vassell
14
9%
Okoro
4
2%
Haliburton
7
4%
Onyeka
3
2%
Other
4
2%
 
Total votes: 164

cjbulls
Starter
Posts: 2,378
And1: 815
Joined: Jun 26, 2018

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1621 » by cjbulls » Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:56 am

Chi town wrote:
SfBull wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:https://deanondraft.com/2020/09/28/how-good-is-deni-avdija/

Deep analysis about Deni, I'm just curious to see if he'll slip like Michael Porter Jr in 2018 with more scouting data like that.


I like Dean. He was the first to say Luka was a Lebron like talent. I agreed with him fully.

He was way off on Lonzo. As was I. He’s had some major misses too. Still like the way he sees things.

He makes some good points w Deni. What it comes down to for Deni is he has to develop his shot to become an OPJ level player. If he will ever become anything more than that he has to be able to handle the ball and create. I think he will.

Deni is still my guy at 4. Hayes if Dubs take Deni.


What is his elite skill? Or are you relying on him being above average at a multitude of skills? Without one of those two options, it’s hard to see his value at #4
Almost Retired
Ballboy
Posts: 22
And1: 24
Joined: Oct 07, 2020
       

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1622 » by Almost Retired » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:15 am

SfBull wrote:
Almost Retired wrote:
PlayerUp wrote:Both Hayes and Deni both could easily be busts. They both have major flaws in their game and none of us should be sold on either of them. In fact it would not surprise me if picks 1-7 are all busts and the picks 8-20 turn out to be decent picks.

Onyeka Okongwu, Tyrese Haliburton, Devin Vassell are the safest picks in my opinion. Think all 3 can be quality NBA starters and I doubt anyone would argue otherwise.

Kira Lewis is the gem prospect in my opinion but I think the mocks are wrong and he'll go in the lottery. Poku could be the poor mans version of Giannis of this draft. There are also other potential gem prospects such as Tyrell Terry.

Overall trading down makes sense but surely every team in the lottery will be looking to do the same thing which makes it seem less likely we can pull off a trade moving down in this draft.


Despite some reservations if Deni is there at #4 I would take him. He could be quite a mismatch at SF. His playmaking abilities would make everyone else on the court that much better. From what I read he is an extremely hard worker. I think it is not beyond the realm of possibility that he could make great strides from his first training camp to his second season. He could get token minutes if OPJ stays healthy. Then let OPJ walk after the season. The new management crew wants to put more emphasis on player development. That's music to me ears because I've been disappointed in the devolopment of our players for years now. And we've been ill served by the team's former medical staff.

However Deni might not be there at #4. Some mocks have him going as high as #1 to Minny. I hope not. But we have to have a plan. I really like Vassel as a future glue-guy, 3&D starter by his 2nd year. #4 is probably too high for Vassel, but not by much. I don't see any great trading down possibilities except the one someone mentioned earlier with us trading #4 to Atlanta for #6 and Huerter. I'd do that deal. Not sure they would.

A final point. I see that several mocks have us now taking Toppin. I hope that's not the case. We need wings who can defend and hit open shots, or a playmaking wing like Deni. We have enough front court and back court players. With question marks attached to every prospect this year we might as well draft for need.

Can you send links from these mocks picking Deni at #1?I didn't find any of that.


Yes, I saw it on a site called "NBA DRAFT ROOM".....I was surprised to see it. And I don't buy into their projected picks. But here are their Top 10:
NEW: 2020 Big Board, Top 70

1-2 Team Player Updated 10/10/20 Comp.
1 T-Wolves Deni Avdija SF – Israel – Ht – 6-8 – Wt – 210 – Wing – NA – Int.01 – There’s no clear no.1 in this class but Deni would be a great fit on the wing in MN and he’s got less bust potential than the other top guys. Danny Granger, Hedu
2 Warriors James Wiseman C – Memphis – Ht – 7-1 – Wt – 247 – Wing – 7-4 1/2 – Fr – If the Warriors hold onto this pick they could target a game changing defender in James Wiseman. Or this could be a spot where a team trades up for LaMelo. Article – Article1 David Robinson lite
3 Hornets LaMelo Ball PG – USA – Ht – 6-7 – Wt – 180 – Wing – 6-10 – Int.01 – PG isn’t the biggest need for the Hornets but after moving up to no.3 they could target the media magnet that is LaMelo Ball. LaMelo Article 6-7 Jason Williams
4 Bulls Anthony Edwards SG – Georgia – Ht – 6-5 – Wt – 215 – Wing – 6-9 – Fr – Edwards might be the most talented prospect in the class but maturity issues could knock him down a few spots on draft day. bigger Oladipo
5 Cavs Onyeka Okongwu C – USC – Ht – 6-9 – Wt – 220 – Wing – 7-1 – Fr – It’s time for the Cavs to rebuild their frontcourt. Onyeka would bring rim protection, rebounding, plus offensive upside. Bam, Tristan Thompson+
6
Hawks Isaac Okoro SF – Auburn – Ht – 6-6 – Wt – 225 – Wing – 6-9 – Fr – Okoro is a winner, a committed defender and team first player who would bring much needed defensive intensity to the Hawks. Justise Winslow+
7 Pistons Killian Hayes PG – France – Ht – 6-5 – Wt – 215 – Wing – 6-7 – Int.01 – The Pistons drop to no.7 but could land Killian Hayes who fits a need and has big time upside. taller Jay Williams
2021 NBA Mock Draft — 2022 NBA Mock Draft

8 Knicks Tyrese Haliburton PG – Iowa State – Ht – 6-5 – Wt – 170 – Wing – 6-8+ – So – The Knicks bad luck continues but this could be a blessing in disguise, if they land the pro-ready Haliburton. LaMelo is the sexy name but Hali could be better early and has a much higher floor. rich man’s Dejounte
9 Wizards Devin Vassell SG – Florida State – Ht – 6-6 – Wt – 180 – Wing – 6-10 – So – Vassell would be a great addition for the Pels, bringing his efficient shooting, defensive acumen and team-first play. Michael Redd, Kerry Kittles
10 Suns Obi Toppin PF – Dayton – Ht – 6-9 – Wt – 220 – Wing – NA – So – Obi drops a bit in this mock, as questions about his defense overshadow his offensive talents.
User avatar
Jvaughn
RealGM
Posts: 25,087
And1: 2,801
Joined: May 18, 2009
   

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1623 » by Jvaughn » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:36 am

Chi town wrote:Howard is Carsen Edwards 2.0.

Pass.


And this is exactly what I see too. There's some evidence of undersized guards doing well in the NBA, but it's usually the exception, and not the rule.
spearsy23 wrote:Kobe is a low percentage chucker just like Jennings, he's just better at it.


teamCHItown wrote:Now we have threads on what violent felons think of our Bulls. Great. Next up, OJ Simpson's take on a possible Taj Gibson extension.
User avatar
PlayerUp
Starter
Posts: 2,124
And1: 982
Joined: Feb 21, 2014
Contact:

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1624 » by PlayerUp » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:23 am

Jvaughn wrote:
Chi town wrote:Howard is Carsen Edwards 2.0.

Pass.


And this is exactly what I see too. There's some evidence of undersized guards doing well in the NBA, but it's usually the exception, and not the rule.


I expect Howard to go in the late 2nd Rd or undrafted so you can pick him up for $ or nothing at all.

2 way deal
User avatar
PlayerUp
Starter
Posts: 2,124
And1: 982
Joined: Feb 21, 2014
Contact:

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1625 » by PlayerUp » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:59 am

James Wiseman update photo of him with his trainer

Image

I was initially totally against drafting yet another bigman but the bigman specifically Okongwu and Wiseman are clearly the less risky picks as they'll at least should be a serviceable role players at the next level (Haliburton/Vassell as well). If we don't go bigman, we have to get a playmaker. This is also a rare opportunity to get a playmaker (Deni/Hayes/Ball/Haliburton) something we've been lacking for basically forever now.

If however LaMelo Ball, Anthony Edwards, and James Wiseman drop, we should also strongly try to work trades with teams below us. Try to make a play to get a lower pick and asset. If any of these 3 drop, we should take them and work trades with teams below us.
Dez
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,028
And1: 5,489
Joined: Jul 23, 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
 

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1626 » by Dez » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:24 am

You're going to get no value trading down, just keep the pick.
User avatar
PlayerUp
Starter
Posts: 2,124
And1: 982
Joined: Feb 21, 2014
Contact:

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1627 » by PlayerUp » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:48 am

Dez wrote:You're going to get no value trading down, just keep the pick.


We don't know that.
The Chosen one
Freshman
Posts: 91
And1: 39
Joined: Oct 07, 2020

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1628 » by The Chosen one » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:01 am

Bulls should be picking between Wiseman, Toppin, Edwards. If they get any of those 3 guys it’s a win. I wouldn’t be mad if the bulls picked Deni or Okorro. They won’t be stars but they would fill a role. I really hope the bulls don’t draft Hayes, that would be a waste a pick since he would be a back up most likely.
The Chosen one
Freshman
Posts: 91
And1: 39
Joined: Oct 07, 2020

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1629 » by The Chosen one » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:15 am

Toppin might have the highest basket ball IQ in this draft. He is also super fast in sprinting the court. In a sprint he’s faster than a lot of guards and will probably be one of the faster bigs in the NBA. His handle is probably the most underrated part of his game besides his passing. He can grab the rebound and go. He didn’t get a chance to show it that much at Dayton but he definitely has that ability. But his basketball IQ is off the charts. I think he would have a chance to beat out Lauri if he was drafted to the bulls.
User avatar
PlayerUp
Starter
Posts: 2,124
And1: 982
Joined: Feb 21, 2014
Contact:

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1630 » by PlayerUp » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:39 am

The Chosen one wrote:Toppin might have the highest basket ball IQ in this draft. He is also super fast in sprinting the court. In a sprint he’s faster than a lot of guards and will probably be one of the faster bigs in the NBA. His handle is probably the most underrated part of his game besides his passing. He can grab the rebound and go. He didn’t get a chance to show it that much at Dayton but he definitely has that ability. But his basketball IQ is off the charts. I think he would have a chance to beat out Lauri if he was drafted to the bulls.


Toppin has already been discussed here many times and the overall consensus is that he has too many flaws in his game and would not be a good option for us.

- He can't play defense
- He is a below average rebounder
- He will be 23
- He will either be the next Derrick Williams or a poor mans Amare Stoudemire
- He played in a weak conference why his stats are so inflated. Among lottery picks he played in the weakest of all conferences.
- Okongwu and Wiseman have higher ceilings.
Dez
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,028
And1: 5,489
Joined: Jul 23, 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
 

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1631 » by Dez » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:44 am

PlayerUp wrote:
Dez wrote:You're going to get no value trading down, just keep the pick.


We don't know that.


The draft has been completely compromised and was regarded as very weak already, teams aren't giving up anything significant.
User avatar
PlayerUp
Starter
Posts: 2,124
And1: 982
Joined: Feb 21, 2014
Contact:

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1632 » by PlayerUp » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:45 am

Dez wrote:
PlayerUp wrote:
Dez wrote:You're going to get no value trading down, just keep the pick.


We don't know that.


The draft has been completely compromised and was regarded as very weak already, teams aren't giving up anything significant.


We already discussed possibilities on other pages of this thread. There are some potential trades that could be explored.
The Chosen one
Freshman
Posts: 91
And1: 39
Joined: Oct 07, 2020

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1633 » by The Chosen one » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:53 am

PlayerUp wrote:
The Chosen one wrote:Toppin might have the highest basket ball IQ in this draft. He is also super fast in sprinting the court. In a sprint he’s faster than a lot of guards and will probably be one of the faster bigs in the NBA. His handle is probably the most underrated part of his game besides his passing. He can grab the rebound and go. He didn’t get a chance to show it that much at Dayton but he definitely has that ability. But his basketball IQ is off the charts. I think he would have a chance to beat out Lauri if he was drafted to the bulls.


Toppin has already been discussed here many times and the overall consensus is that he has too many flaws in his game and would not be a good option for us.

- He can't play defense
- He is a below average rebounder
- He will be 23
- He will either be the next Derrick Williams or a poor mans Amare Stoudemire
- He played in a weak conference why his stats are so inflated. Among lottery picks he played in the weakest of all conferences.
- Okongwu and Wiseman have better upside.

He played against NBA players in an open run and dominated. His game is way different than Derrick Williams. The only similarities are that they are around the same height and are athletic. Toppin IQ is way higher than Derrick Williams. He’s a better passer as well. Toppin defense can improve. I think with better lower body strength he will be a better rebounder. Also while Amare and Toppin share similarities there are key differences in there games. Toppin is a way better 3 point shooter than both Derrick Williams and Stoudemire. Give me a guy that can put up efficient scoring have high basketball IQ and a great passer any day. So what if he’s 22. He has shown the ability to improve his game every year. Playing in a small conference means nonthing. If you have talent you have talent. Lillard and CJ played in a small conference and it didn’t stop them. I would probably take Wiseman over Toppin. I don’t think I would take Okongwu over Toppin.
Dez
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,028
And1: 5,489
Joined: Jul 23, 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
 

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1634 » by Dez » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:00 am

PlayerUp wrote:
Dez wrote:
PlayerUp wrote:
We don't know that.


The draft has been completely compromised and was regarded as very weak already, teams aren't giving up anything significant.


We already discussed possibilities on other pages of this thread. There are some potential trades that could be explored.


You might think they're possibilities but I highly disagree, nobody is going to give up anything decent with so much uncertainty.
User avatar
Little Nathan
Head Coach
Posts: 6,472
And1: 3,972
Joined: Mar 11, 2013
Location: Germany
   

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1635 » by Little Nathan » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:16 am

I absolutely see why people are high on Toppin. Offensively there's really a lot to like, especially if you buy his shooting. If a team gives him the opportunity, I could see him putting up big number straight away. I just can't get there defensively with him. You can't hide bigs and his issues don't look completely fixable to me. The age thing doesn't matter as much to me, but yeah, a 19-year-old Toppin with this kind of production would probably be projected to go top 3.

From what I read here recently, I'm probably lower on Deni than most. I thought I was high on him, but some people REALLY love him in ways I just don't see. Definitely lower on Okoro and Wiseman too. Both are okay, but not really what I would want at 4.
"Heart is a skill that player who shoot 3s might not have." - Chris Webber, actually getting paid for this
Bulldog23
Rookie
Posts: 1,212
And1: 63
Joined: Oct 25, 2002

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1636 » by Bulldog23 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:20 pm

As far as guards I like Hayes, Kira, and Maxey. I really think Kira is top ten pick. Kira has the athleticism, defense, and scoring to be a top pick. Based on these mock drafts he is very under valued, as is Hayes. I like four of the wings in this draft, Okoro, Williams, Green, and Vassell, in that order for the Bulls. Vassell fit is the reason, with the Bulls because the Bulls need a defender who can defend between 2 to 4. I don’t think Vassell can handle a four with his frame. Vassell really reminds me of Chandler. The Bulls should find away to get a second pick in the first round, preferably between 12 to 20, I think there is value there.
cjbulls
Starter
Posts: 2,378
And1: 815
Joined: Jun 26, 2018

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1637 » by cjbulls » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:12 pm

The Chosen one wrote:Toppin might have the highest basket ball IQ in this draft. He is also super fast in sprinting the court. In a sprint he’s faster than a lot of guards and will probably be one of the faster bigs in the NBA. His handle is probably the most underrated part of his game besides his passing. He can grab the rebound and go. He didn’t get a chance to show it that much at Dayton but he definitely has that ability. But his basketball IQ is off the charts. I think he would have a chance to beat out Lauri if he was drafted to the bulls.


I always want to dismiss Toppin because he doesn’t have defensive skills, doesn’t rebound all that well, and isn’t a playmaker (which they still need) but then I remember Lauri has all these same flaws.

It wouldn’t be so bad to me to grab Toppin so we don’t have to talk ourselves into overpaying Lauri in a few years to do somewhat similar things.
Chi town
RealGM
Posts: 17,889
And1: 3,898
Joined: Aug 10, 2004

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1638 » by Chi town » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:45 pm

cjbulls wrote:
Chi town wrote:
SfBull wrote:Deep analysis about Deni, I'm just curious to see if he'll slip like Michael Porter Jr in 2018 with more scouting data like that.


I like Dean. He was the first to say Luka was a Lebron like talent. I agreed with him fully.

He was way off on Lonzo. As was I. He’s had some major misses too. Still like the way he sees things.

He makes some good points w Deni. What it comes down to for Deni is he has to develop his shot to become an OPJ level player. If he will ever become anything more than that he has to be able to handle the ball and create. I think he will.

Deni is still my guy at 4. Hayes if Dubs take Deni.


What is his elite skill? Or are you relying on him being above average at a multitude of skills? Without one of those two options, it’s hard to see his value at #4


Elite IQ which shows itself through his playmaking. He will get better there and he has the size and body type to use it by seeing over the defense etc. His defensive IQ is elite too.
User avatar
TheSuzerain
RealGM
Posts: 13,301
And1: 8,442
Joined: Mar 29, 2012

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1639 » by TheSuzerain » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:46 pm

Carsen Edwards is a lot more similar to Coby than either of them are to Howard.

I think Howard is some sort of Seth Curry/IT hybrid.
StunnerKO
Veteran
Posts: 2,912
And1: 1,953
Joined: Sep 25, 2017

Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1640 » by StunnerKO » Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:58 pm

Return to Chicago Bulls