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2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2

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Who do you want?

Ball
27
16%
Wiseman
29
18%
Deni
41
25%
Hayes
31
19%
Obi
4
2%
Vassell
14
9%
Okoro
4
2%
Haliburton
7
4%
Onyeka
3
2%
Other
4
2%
 
Total votes: 164

The Chosen one
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1641 » by The Chosen one » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:03 pm

cjbulls wrote:
The Chosen one wrote:Toppin might have the highest basket ball IQ in this draft. He is also super fast in sprinting the court. In a sprint he’s faster than a lot of guards and will probably be one of the faster bigs in the NBA. His handle is probably the most underrated part of his game besides his passing. He can grab the rebound and go. He didn’t get a chance to show it that much at Dayton but he definitely has that ability. But his basketball IQ is off the charts. I think he would have a chance to beat out Lauri if he was drafted to the bulls.


I always want to dismiss Toppin because he doesn’t have defensive skills, doesn’t rebound all that well, and isn’t a playmaker (which they still need) but then I remember Lauri has all these same flaws.

It wouldn’t be so bad to me to grab Toppin so we don’t have to talk ourselves into overpaying Lauri in a few years to do somewhat similar things.

Don’t think the bulls really need a playmaker that bad. I think White, and Lavine can play-make good enough with the pnr. Lavine was getting guys wide open shots last year, but guys were not knocking them down. Toppin is actually one of the best passsers in the draft. Satoransky is a decent passer and if the bulls resign valentine he can play make. One of Hutchinson strengths that go unnoticed is his passing in transition. Carter can pass well to if they use him in that way.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1642 » by sco » Sat Oct 17, 2020 2:08 pm

The Chosen one wrote:
cjbulls wrote:
The Chosen one wrote:Toppin might have the highest basket ball IQ in this draft. He is also super fast in sprinting the court. In a sprint he’s faster than a lot of guards and will probably be one of the faster bigs in the NBA. His handle is probably the most underrated part of his game besides his passing. He can grab the rebound and go. He didn’t get a chance to show it that much at Dayton but he definitely has that ability. But his basketball IQ is off the charts. I think he would have a chance to beat out Lauri if he was drafted to the bulls.


I always want to dismiss Toppin because he doesn’t have defensive skills, doesn’t rebound all that well, and isn’t a playmaker (which they still need) but then I remember Lauri has all these same flaws.

It wouldn’t be so bad to me to grab Toppin so we don’t have to talk ourselves into overpaying Lauri in a few years to do somewhat similar things.

Don’t think the bulls really need a playmaker that bad. I think White, and Lavine can play-make good enough with the pnr. Lavine was getting guys wide open shots last year, but guys were not knocking them down. Toppin is actually one of the best passsers in the draft. Satoransky is a decent passer and if the bulls resign valentine he can play make. One of Hutchinson strengths that go unnoticed is his passing in transition. Carter can pass well to if they use him in that way.

I think the danger is drafting for need. I'm going for the guy who has the best chance of becoming an allstar, even if he has a higher bust likelihood.
:clap:
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1643 » by StunnerKO » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:06 pm

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1644 » by Little Nathan » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:11 pm

StunnerKO wrote:
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Wembanyama is a unique prospect for sure, but the guy is 16. Born in 2004 (which sounds like he's 5 to me btw). So yeah, a bit too early to discuss him.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1645 » by PlayerUp » Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:40 pm

Little Nathan wrote:
StunnerKO wrote:
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Wembanyama is a unique prospect for sure, but the guy is 16. Born in 2004 (which sounds like he's 5 to me btw). So yeah, a bit too early to discuss him.


2022 or 2023 draft. Long ways to go and everything could change before then.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1646 » by Brothaman33 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:02 pm

At this point, in my opinion we are down to getting one of these 4:

Anthony Edwards
LaMelo Ball
James Wiseman
Deni Avidja

It's so interesting watching the stock of these 4. Wiseman, for the most part, was considered the high risk prospect, but lately I've read much more about him having a higher floor because of how he handles himself and his work ethic.

Killian Hayes stock seems to have at least stagnated, and for me I do not see the athleticism. His IQ looks to be good, but I don't see a good first step, I don't see a high level vertical or high level lateral quickness. The ones who love him point at his age and IQ but I don't see a high level player because I dont think he's going to be able to consistently get to where he wants to be on the court. Kira Lewis blows him away in that aspect.

Is Hayes that much more projectable based on age and IQ?
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1647 » by MrFortune3 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:33 pm

StunnerKO wrote:
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It's too early to be talking about the 2023 draft. :lol:
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1648 » by MrFortune3 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:36 pm

Brothaman33 wrote:At this point, in my opinion we are down to getting one of these 4:

Anthony Edwards
LaMelo Ball
James Wiseman
Deni Avidja

It's so interesting watching the stock of these 4. Wiseman, for the most part, was considered the high risk prospect, but lately I've read much more about him having a higher floor because of how he handles himself and his work ethic.

Killian Hayes stock seems to have at least stagnated, and for me I do not see the athleticism. His IQ looks to be good, but I don't see a good first step, I don't see a high level vertical or high level lateral quickness. The ones who love him point at his age and IQ but I don't see a high level player because I dont think he's going to be able to consistently get to where he wants to be on the court. Kira Lewis blows him away in that aspect.

Is Hayes that much more projectable based on age and IQ?


Hayes' issue is going to be not being able to work out and get the rub from teams talking up his improvements.
He's need seen as good as Edwards, and he's not as big or seen as the level of playmaker as Ball.

Only 2 teams really need a PG in the top 4 so his stock doesn't elevate.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1649 » by MrSparkle » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:10 pm

I know his defense is bad, but coming back to Obi ... I think he has the best combo of skills, length and athleticism in this draft. He looks like a star #1 option if you can figure out how to mask him on D. His ball control is fantastic for a guy that big. He really is a spinning image of Amare, crossed with Blake. And I’m low on bigs - but I’m pretty sure Obi can come in and average 20 ppg while really opening up the floor for Zach/Coby and giving this team some nice PnR offense.

Does anyone actually really care about Lauri’s starting position? Worst case scenario, I think LM makes for a good 6th man, and he should be paid as such. A team would be nuts to offer Lauri more than 60/4 as a RFA. I can see a shorter 20m offer but Bulls would match anything under 2y.

I’m also struggling to see these flawed PGs making a big difference. I feel like the pay-off of developing Coby full-time at PG is better (or at least more tangible) than Hayes, Deni or LaMelo becoming our primary creators. These guys really wouldn’t have anybody to pass to. We don’t have above the rim finishers besides Gafford and Zach.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1650 » by MrFortune3 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:42 pm

MrSparkle wrote:I know his defense is bad, but coming back to Obi ... I think he has the best combo of skills, length and athleticism in this draft. He looks like a star #1 option if you can figure out how to mask him on D. His ball control is fantastic for a guy that big. He really is a spinning image of Amare, crossed with Blake. And I’m low on bigs - but I’m pretty sure Obi can come in and average 20 ppg while really opening up the floor for Zach/Coby and giving this team some nice PnR offense.

Does anyone actually really care about Lauri’s starting position? Worst case scenario, I think LM makes for a good 6th man, and he should be paid as such. A team would be nuts to offer Lauri more than 60/4 as a RFA. I can see a shorter 20m offer but Bulls would match anything under 2y.

I’m also struggling to see these flawed PGs making a big difference. I feel like the pay-off of developing Coby full-time at PG is better (or at least more tangible) than Hayes, Deni or LaMelo becoming our primary creators. These guys really wouldn’t have anybody to pass to. We don’t have above the rim finishers besides Gafford and Zach.


Not a big fan of his. I think he'll be a solid NBA player but we don't need a PF and we have enough question marks on D.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1651 » by StunnerKO » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:45 pm

MrFortune3 wrote:
StunnerKO wrote:
Read on Twitter
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It's too early to be talking about the 2023 draft. :lol:

Just sending info I know nothing about him
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1652 » by MrFortune3 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:33 pm

StunnerKO wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:
StunnerKO wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21


It's too early to be talking about the 2023 draft. :lol:

Just sending info I know nothing about him


I understand that. Just saying, we are talking about the 2020 draft. 2021-2023 can wait until later.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1653 » by Dez » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:55 pm

MrFortune3 wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:I know his defense is bad, but coming back to Obi ... I think he has the best combo of skills, length and athleticism in this draft. He looks like a star #1 option if you can figure out how to mask him on D. His ball control is fantastic for a guy that big. He really is a spinning image of Amare, crossed with Blake. And I’m low on bigs - but I’m pretty sure Obi can come in and average 20 ppg while really opening up the floor for Zach/Coby and giving this team some nice PnR offense.

Does anyone actually really care about Lauri’s starting position? Worst case scenario, I think LM makes for a good 6th man, and he should be paid as such. A team would be nuts to offer Lauri more than 60/4 as a RFA. I can see a shorter 20m offer but Bulls would match anything under 2y.

I’m also struggling to see these flawed PGs making a big difference. I feel like the pay-off of developing Coby full-time at PG is better (or at least more tangible) than Hayes, Deni or LaMelo becoming our primary creators. These guys really wouldn’t have anybody to pass to. We don’t have above the rim finishers besides Gafford and Zach.


Not a big fan of his. I think he'll be a solid NBA player but we don't need a PF and we have enough question marks on D.


If they think Toppin is the best available then take him, there's no reason talk about need.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1654 » by MrSparkle » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:55 pm

MrFortune3 wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:I know his defense is bad, but coming back to Obi ... I think he has the best combo of skills, length and athleticism in this draft. He looks like a star #1 option if you can figure out how to mask him on D. His ball control is fantastic for a guy that big. He really is a spinning image of Amare, crossed with Blake. And I’m low on bigs - but I’m pretty sure Obi can come in and average 20 ppg while really opening up the floor for Zach/Coby and giving this team some nice PnR offense.

Does anyone actually really care about Lauri’s starting position? Worst case scenario, I think LM makes for a good 6th man, and he should be paid as such. A team would be nuts to offer Lauri more than 60/4 as a RFA. I can see a shorter 20m offer but Bulls would match anything under 2y.

I’m also struggling to see these flawed PGs making a big difference. I feel like the pay-off of developing Coby full-time at PG is better (or at least more tangible) than Hayes, Deni or LaMelo becoming our primary creators. These guys really wouldn’t have anybody to pass to. We don’t have above the rim finishers besides Gafford and Zach.


Not a big fan of his. I think he'll be a solid NBA player but we don't need a PF and we have enough question marks on D.


To be fair, do we really not need a PF? Also is Obi definitely not a small-ball C? I know Thad and Lauri are capable of playing better, an Lauri/Wendell have #7 attached to their names, but overall we probably have the one of the worst big rotations in the league.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1655 » by MrFortune3 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:03 pm

Dez wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:I know his defense is bad, but coming back to Obi ... I think he has the best combo of skills, length and athleticism in this draft. He looks like a star #1 option if you can figure out how to mask him on D. His ball control is fantastic for a guy that big. He really is a spinning image of Amare, crossed with Blake. And I’m low on bigs - but I’m pretty sure Obi can come in and average 20 ppg while really opening up the floor for Zach/Coby and giving this team some nice PnR offense.

Does anyone actually really care about Lauri’s starting position? Worst case scenario, I think LM makes for a good 6th man, and he should be paid as such. A team would be nuts to offer Lauri more than 60/4 as a RFA. I can see a shorter 20m offer but Bulls would match anything under 2y.

I’m also struggling to see these flawed PGs making a big difference. I feel like the pay-off of developing Coby full-time at PG is better (or at least more tangible) than Hayes, Deni or LaMelo becoming our primary creators. These guys really wouldn’t have anybody to pass to. We don’t have above the rim finishers besides Gafford and Zach.


Not a big fan of his. I think he'll be a solid NBA player but we don't need a PF and we have enough question marks on D.


If they think Toppin is the best available then take him, there's no reason talk about need.


If it's a big, need has to factor in. We can't go about this like the Magic, Hornets, Sixers or Suns. That takes too long to build out the roster and balance it.
Toppin is not even close to being a guy you draft and figure it out later with regards to balance.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1656 » by MrFortune3 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:04 pm

MrSparkle wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:I know his defense is bad, but coming back to Obi ... I think he has the best combo of skills, length and athleticism in this draft. He looks like a star #1 option if you can figure out how to mask him on D. His ball control is fantastic for a guy that big. He really is a spinning image of Amare, crossed with Blake. And I’m low on bigs - but I’m pretty sure Obi can come in and average 20 ppg while really opening up the floor for Zach/Coby and giving this team some nice PnR offense.

Does anyone actually really care about Lauri’s starting position? Worst case scenario, I think LM makes for a good 6th man, and he should be paid as such. A team would be nuts to offer Lauri more than 60/4 as a RFA. I can see a shorter 20m offer but Bulls would match anything under 2y.

I’m also struggling to see these flawed PGs making a big difference. I feel like the pay-off of developing Coby full-time at PG is better (or at least more tangible) than Hayes, Deni or LaMelo becoming our primary creators. These guys really wouldn’t have anybody to pass to. We don’t have above the rim finishers besides Gafford and Zach.


Not a big fan of his. I think he'll be a solid NBA player but we don't need a PF and we have enough question marks on D.


To be fair, do we really not need a PF? Also is Obi definitely not a small-ball C? I know Thad and Lauri are capable of playing better, and have #7 attached to their names, but overall we probably have the one of the worst PF rotations in the league.


We really don't. Especially not one that cannot play defense. He's going to be a damn turnstile on D and you cannot have that and move him to small ball C with the current construction of the roster.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1657 » by StunnerKO » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:16 pm

MrFortune3 wrote:
StunnerKO wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:
It's too early to be talking about the 2023 draft. :lol:

Just sending info I know nothing about him


I understand that. Just saying, we are talking about the 2020 draft. 2021-2023 can wait until later.

“ I didn’t know anything about him” meaning I thought he was in this class if I known I wouldn’t have posted
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1658 » by Dez » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:27 pm

MrFortune3 wrote:
Dez wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:
Not a big fan of his. I think he'll be a solid NBA player but we don't need a PF and we have enough question marks on D.


If they think Toppin is the best available then take him, there's no reason talk about need.


If it's a big, need has to factor in. We can't go about this like the Magic, Hornets, Sixers or Suns. That takes too long to build out the roster and balance it.
Toppin is not even close to being a guy you draft and figure it out later with regards to balance.


No it doesn't have to factor in, you just go ahead and trade a big.

Draft BPA, if that's Toppin then take him.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1659 » by JohnnyTapwater » Sat Oct 17, 2020 10:28 pm

StunnerKO wrote:
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Crazy -

a starting line-up of all 7 footers is right around the corner -
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1660 » by MrFortune3 » Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:51 pm

Dez wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:
Dez wrote:
If they think Toppin is the best available then take him, there's no reason talk about need.


If it's a big, need has to factor in. We can't go about this like the Magic, Hornets, Sixers or Suns. That takes too long to build out the roster and balance it.
Toppin is not even close to being a guy you draft and figure it out later with regards to balance.


No it doesn't have to factor in, you just go ahead and trade a big.

Draft BPA, if that's Toppin then take him.


That's how you end up like the Magic having taken 5 highly drafted bigs, no way to develop them all and no roster balance. It definitely has to factor in and it should factor in.

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