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2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2

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Who do you want?

Ball
27
16%
Wiseman
29
18%
Deni
41
25%
Hayes
31
19%
Obi
4
2%
Vassell
14
9%
Okoro
4
2%
Haliburton
7
4%
Onyeka
3
2%
Other
4
2%
 
Total votes: 164

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1681 » by Evil_Headband » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:33 pm

Jvaughn wrote:
SfBull wrote:A mock draft database covering 27 mock drafts
https://walterfootball.com/nbadraftdata.php


Omg, some of those picks are comically bad. Someone chose Nico Mannion at 4 for us.


The "last update" on that one says June 21 but if you click the link you'll see it was updated June 21, 2019. All the ones at the bottom are very, very old.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1682 » by Evil_Headband » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:41 pm

DuckIII wrote:Toppin will not be BPA at 4, and he’s not even close to the type of player you “draft and figure it out later.” And I say that as someone way down on Lauri.

The only big at 4 you could even contemplate is Wiseman.


I'm not saying they should draft Onyeka Okongwu at 4 but I'd like them to at least contemplate it. A little undersized and not much of a shooter but otherwise he's extremely solid. From the little I've read, he seems to also be high character.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1683 » by Little Nathan » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:52 pm

DuckIII wrote:The only big at 4 you could even contemplate is Wiseman.



Disagree. It's Okongwu to me. Wouldn't be my pick probably, but the only big I consider is Kong.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1684 » by PhilLeotardo » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:58 pm

One of the most recent mocks had Chicago taking Hali at 4. So who knows what’s going on
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1685 » by DuckIII » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:08 pm

Evil_Headband wrote:
DuckIII wrote:Toppin will not be BPA at 4, and he’s not even close to the type of player you “draft and figure it out later.” And I say that as someone way down on Lauri.

The only big at 4 you could even contemplate is Wiseman.


I'm not saying they should draft Onyeka Okongwu at 4 but I'd like them to at least contemplate it. A little undersized and not much of a shooter but otherwise he's extremely solid. From the little I've read, he seems to also be high character.


In my view Bulls need to roll the dice. No safe picks at 4, and especially not for a big.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1686 » by SfBull » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:48 pm

Jvaughn wrote:
SfBull wrote:A mock draft database covering 27 mock drafts
https://walterfootball.com/nbadraftdata.php


Omg, some of those picks are comically bad. Someone chose Nico Mannion at 4 for us.

Yes,some mocks are very strange.But Nico's stock was high at february as Cole Anthony,who would be drafted at #4 in one mock
https://walterfootball.com/nbadraft2020mock.php
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1687 » by Little Nathan » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:52 pm

SfBull wrote:Yes,some mocks are very strange.But Nico's stock was high at february as Cole Anthony,who would be drafted at #4 in one mock
https://walterfootball.com/nbadraft2020mock.php



I think Cole is underrated right now tbh. Wouldn't take him top 5 obviously, but I've seen him ranked in the low teens lately and I think he's way better than that.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1688 » by SfBull » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:53 pm

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1689 » by SfBull » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:13 pm

PhilLeotardo wrote:
SfBull wrote:
PhilLeotardo wrote:
If you think LM is poor on defense, just wait. Toppin is comically awful. He has barely any sense of defensive awareness whatsoever. He’s been around for a while too & is around the same age as LM. He’s likely always going to be a total liability/tweener on D. LM has decent defensive instincts, it’s just that his lack of foot speed/paltry wingspan prevent him from putting them to good use. He can improve on D with better timing & patient coaching. Not sure the same can be said for Toppin

I’d seriously be concerned if Chicago selected a 22 year old tweener PF with the 4th pick. I really don’t think Toppin is BPA. He looks like he’ll be a poor man’s John Collins

The safest bet in this draft to become a star is IMO Vassell (best advanced stats of the lot, perfect archetype for the modern game, already incredible on defense) & the guy with potentially the highest upside is Pokusevsky. That’s why I’m advocating for them to trade down for two picks, and then select Markus Howard with the 2nd r’der. This draft is gonna be like the Ball/Fultz draft. Pretty much everyone poised to go top 5 is being way way overhyped. There couldn’t be a more clear cut example of a draft where trading down could nab you more value than this one

Or we could trade down and get Vassell.Do you believe that Howard can improve our backcourt?He can be better than Dunn or Sato?
I really like Vassell having watched some games.


I don’t think Dunn will be on the team for much longer, perhaps not Sato either, and I dunno what Howard will be able to provide from the jump, but I do know that Markus Howard is one of the greatest shooters in the history of college basketball. He has homeless man’s Steph Curry written all over him, and if you can grab that in the 2nd round, you do it imo

Also, I said trade down for two picks, and then selecting Vassell & Poku with those picks, and Howard with the 2nd rder

A good option can be trading down getting Vassell and Patrick Williams , promising players from Florida State.And we have the #44 pick.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1690 » by SfBull » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:31 pm

PhilLeotardo wrote:
SfBull wrote:
PhilLeotardo wrote:
If you think LM is poor on defense, just wait. Toppin is comically awful. He has barely any sense of defensive awareness whatsoever. He’s been around for a while too & is around the same age as LM. He’s likely always going to be a total liability/tweener on D. LM has decent defensive instincts, it’s just that his lack of foot speed/paltry wingspan prevent him from putting them to good use. He can improve on D with better timing & patient coaching. Not sure the same can be said for Toppin

I’d seriously be concerned if Chicago selected a 22 year old tweener PF with the 4th pick. I really don’t think Toppin is BPA. He looks like he’ll be a poor man’s John Collins

The safest bet in this draft to become a star is IMO Vassell (best advanced stats of the lot, perfect archetype for the modern game, already incredible on defense) & the guy with potentially the highest upside is Pokusevsky. That’s why I’m advocating for them to trade down for two picks, and then select Markus Howard with the 2nd r’der. This draft is gonna be like the Ball/Fultz draft. Pretty much everyone poised to go top 5 is being way way overhyped. There couldn’t be a more clear cut example of a draft where trading down could nab you more value than this one

Or we could trade down and get Vassell.Do you believe that Howard can improve our backcourt?He can be better than Dunn or Sato?
I really like Vassell having watched some games.


I don’t think Dunn will be on the team for much longer, perhaps not Sato either, and I dunno what Howard will be able to provide from the jump, but I do know that Markus Howard is one of the greatest shooters in the history of college basketball. He has homeless man’s Steph Curry written all over him, and if you can grab that in the 2nd round, you do it imo

Also, I said trade down for two picks, and then selecting Vassell & Poku with those picks, and Howard with the 2nd rder

Athletic's updated mock :#44 Bulls pick Jordan
Nwora.Markus Howard doesn't appear in both rounds.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1691 » by SfBull » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:33 pm

PhilLeotardo wrote:So, according to Pokusevsky himself, who has a YouTube account & was chatting with fans recently, he’s 7’2 now WTF, and obviously still has a solid 2/2.5 years of physical growth left. I dunno, seems like a 7’4 wing will be a death knell in the NBA, but if it works out, hallelujah

We keep talking about this draft being weak but there are some very interesting players to watch and eventually pick,Poku is one of them.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1692 » by SfBull » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:38 pm

Evil_Headband wrote:
Jvaughn wrote:
SfBull wrote:A mock draft database covering 27 mock drafts
https://walterfootball.com/nbadraftdata.php


Omg, some of those picks are comically bad. Someone chose Nico Mannion at 4 for us.


The "last update" on that one says June 21 but if you click the link you'll see it was updated June 21, 2019. All the ones at the bottom are very, very old.

Which is more logical considering how high people was about Nico and Cole at 2019.Both were considered top 10 picks then.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1693 » by SfBull » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:42 pm

DuckIII wrote:
Evil_Headband wrote:
DuckIII wrote:Toppin will not be BPA at 4, and he’s not even close to the type of player you “draft and figure it out later.” And I say that as someone way down on Lauri.

The only big at 4 you could even contemplate is Wiseman.


I'm not saying they should draft Onyeka Okongwu at 4 but I'd like them to at least contemplate it. A little undersized and not much of a shooter but otherwise he's extremely solid. From the little I've read, he seems to also be high character.


In my view Bulls need to roll the dice. No safe picks at 4, and especially not for a big.

I like Deni but trading down getting 2 picks searching for sleepers looks like a very good idea.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1694 » by PlayerUp » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:15 pm

Little Nathan wrote:
PlayerUp wrote:He seems like a more for sure bet to be a success than LaMelo or Edwards.


Heavily disagree with that. Reading this a lot, but I don't understand where this argument is coming from. Is Wiseman more likeky to put up good counting stats? Sure. Is he more likely to actually make an impact? I don't see why he would be.


That's what I am saying essentially. Wiseman should be able to at least have a role. LaMelo lack of defense/shooting could lead to diseaster could flame out and be a total bust.

Wiseman, Haliburton, Vassell, Okongwu all should be at least quality role players.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1695 » by MrFortune3 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:17 pm

Dez wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:
Dez wrote:
You using one example and assuming that AK and Eversley are morons that will do the same.

If you draft Toppin then you can trade Markkanen, it's really not a difficult concept.


It's not just the Magic. It happened with the Sixers, Suns, Hornets had the and still at times have the same issue.

The FO is not just going to up and trade Lauri or WCJ after drafting someone. They are going to play out at least part of the season to see the fit. Figure out who they want on the team and how they develop.

More to the point, during the closing of games, Toppin has to go to the bench because he's awful on D and you will need to clamp down to get stops.


Going by that logic then Lauri must also go to the bench during the closing of games because he's the same.

They don't have to just up and trade draft night, a decision on Lauri might be made early in the season given his status as a RFA.

BPA first, fit later.


Lauri is meh on defense, especially as a individual defender. Toppin is a turnstile, Carlos Boozer, Ole bull fighter level non defender.
He doesn't even pretend to try.

Toppin isn't close to the type of player that factors into the BPA and figure it out later. That's why his stock has fallen off from being the rumored #2 to being on the outside of the top 6 usually.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1696 » by MrFortune3 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:20 pm

PlayerUp wrote:
Little Nathan wrote:
PlayerUp wrote:He seems like a more for sure bet to be a success than LaMelo or Edwards.


Heavily disagree with that. Reading this a lot, but I don't understand where this argument is coming from. Is Wiseman more likeky to put up good counting stats? Sure. Is he more likely to actually make an impact? I don't see why he would be.


That's what I am saying essentially. Wiseman should be able to at least have a role. LaMelo lack of defense/shooting could lead to diseaster could flame out and be a total bust.

Wiseman, Haliburton, Vassell, Okongwu all should be at least quality role players.


Wiseman at worst is going to be a very good rebounding big who can defend the rim and help your defense.
The question with him is how will his offensive game develop in the NBA. If he reaches his potential he's a 20-10 franchise player.
If he doesn't, he's Tyson Chandler. Either way it's a solid pick.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1697 » by Pax for Prez » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:32 pm

MrFortune3 wrote:
PlayerUp wrote:
Little Nathan wrote:
Heavily disagree with that. Reading this a lot, but I don't understand where this argument is coming from. Is Wiseman more likeky to put up good counting stats? Sure. Is he more likely to actually make an impact? I don't see why he would be.


That's what I am saying essentially. Wiseman should be able to at least have a role. LaMelo lack of defense/shooting could lead to diseaster could flame out and be a total bust.

Wiseman, Haliburton, Vassell, Okongwu all should be at least quality role players.


Wiseman at worst is going to be a very good rebounding big who can defend the rim and help your defense.
The question with him is how will his offensive game develop in the NBA. If he reaches his potential he's a 20-10 franchise player.
If he doesn't, he's Tyson Chandler. Either way it's a solid pick.


I'm fine if it is Wiseman as long as there is a follow up deal trading W. Carter.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1698 » by NecessaryEvil » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:44 pm

Benedict Miller wrote:I'm one of the few who wants Wiseman.


I'm with you. Which is why moving up was nice, but to only 4th was the worst part.

Hopefully AK has some tricks up his sleeve come draft night.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1699 » by PhilLeotardo » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:50 pm

SfBull wrote:
PhilLeotardo wrote:So, according to Pokusevsky himself, who has a YouTube account & was chatting with fans recently, he’s 7’2 now WTF, and obviously still has a solid 2/2.5 years of physical growth left. I dunno, seems like a 7’4 wing will be a death knell in the NBA, but if it works out, hallelujah

We keep talking about this draft being weak but there are some very interesting players to watch and eventually pick,Poku is one of them.


Well, it is an enormously weak draft class. That cannot be stressed enough. We’ve known for a couple of years now how weak it was going to be, and honestly it’s weaker than was initially even thought

There are examples of people saying a draft is weak when it’s really not. 2019 was supposed to be a weak draft, but anyone who followed that class knew that it was extremely deep. Same with 2017 (2019 might even be stronger than ‘17). 2020 is just plain weak, there’s no getting around it. There’s some interesting prospects but overall, it’s just downright bad, especially considering 2021 is going to be one of the greatest drafts of all time

I’m aware that Howard isn’t projected, which is why we were saying on the previous page how criminal it’d be if he didn’t get taken. I definitely want the Bulls to take him with the 2nd. Markus Howard has one of the most glorious jumpers I have ever seen

Pokusevsky IMO is the most intriguing prospect in the class with the highest ceiling. Very very low floor, but if he stays healthy & keeps improving like he has been, the dude looks like a homeless person’s white Durant. His size is concerning though. We’ve never seen a 7’4 person succeed long term in the NBA, let alone a 7’4 person who plays point forward & will be handling the ball/pivoting constantly/etc. Seems like it’s a horrific injury waiting to happen, but according to his camp/coaches, he’s very strong & durable for someone so huge
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#1700 » by SfBull » Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:27 pm

PhilLeotardo wrote:
SfBull wrote:
PhilLeotardo wrote:So, according to Pokusevsky himself, who has a YouTube account & was chatting with fans recently, he’s 7’2 now WTF, and obviously still has a solid 2/2.5 years of physical growth left. I dunno, seems like a 7’4 wing will be a death knell in the NBA, but if it works out, hallelujah

We keep talking about this draft being weak but there are some very interesting players to watch and eventually pick,Poku is one of them.


Well, it is an enormously weak draft class. That cannot be stressed enough. We’ve known for a couple of years now how weak it was going to be, and honestly it’s weaker than was initially even thought

There are examples of people saying a draft is weak when it’s really not. 2019 was supposed to be a weak draft, but anyone who followed that class knew that it was extremely deep. Same with 2017 (2019 might even be stronger than ‘17). 2020 is just plain weak, there’s no getting around it. There’s some interesting prospects but overall, it’s just downright bad, especially considering 2021 is going to be one of the greatest drafts of all time

I’m aware that Howard isn’t projected, which is why we were saying on the previous page how criminal it’d be if he didn’t get taken. I definitely want the Bulls to take him with the 2nd. Markus Howard has one of the most glorious jumpers I have ever seen

Pokusevsky IMO is the most intriguing prospect in the class with the highest ceiling. Very very low floor, but if he stays healthy & keeps improving like he has been, the dude looks like a homeless person’s white Durant. His size is concerning though. We’ve never seen a 7’4 person succeed long term in the NBA, let alone a 7’4 person who plays point forward & will be handling the ball/pivoting constantly/etc. Seems like it’s a horrific injury waiting to happen, but according to his camp/coaches, he’s very strong & durable for someone so huge

But we can't compare this draft with 2000's ,I don't remember watching such a weak draft.

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