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2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2

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Who do you want?

Ball
27
16%
Wiseman
29
18%
Deni
41
25%
Hayes
31
19%
Obi
4
2%
Vassell
14
9%
Okoro
4
2%
Haliburton
7
4%
Onyeka
3
2%
Other
4
2%
 
Total votes: 164

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#41 » by drosereturn » Wed Sep 9, 2020 12:33 am

MGB8 wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:Any time you ask yourself how we can use the #4 pick to fit in with our current players, you should put $1 in a jar.

Our core is terrible. White, Lavine, Lauri, WCJ. It's basura.


I'm not so down on them, and a full blown rebuild isn't particularly appealing (though more appealing than when they did the Jimmy trade because of the mass objections to being a "treadmill team").

In any event, I'm not down on White or LaVine as potentially starting level pieces on a good team. Both can shoot and create, LaVine's defense while bad has improved and White is "ok" on that end. They aren't team corner-stones, but you can have them on a strong team - even starting - if the other pieces are right.



How are they really creating when in reality the duo is busy jacking up shots? You cant blame Lauri and Carter if its their fault for not creating opportunities and setting motion offense. Everyone knows its a guard driven league and when they are bottom 10 , ofc your team is going to suck. im not saying White and lavine are terrible players but when played together they produce some ugly basketball sometimes want them shipped out.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#42 » by kodo » Wed Sep 9, 2020 1:43 am

Eh, Eric Bledsoe is the starting PG for the best regular season team in the league and he played worse than Lavine tonight.

How Zach & Coby play is how everyone plays, the only difference is that better teams make more of those tough shots.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#43 » by Clint Eastwood » Wed Sep 9, 2020 2:00 am

I will be shocked if wiseman ends up falling to 4. If he does, run to the podium. He has superstar potential. And if he doesnt reach it, he at the very least will not be a bust. I would be happy with advija too, but i suspect wiseman is only there if advija is taken already.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#44 » by Chicagoat » Wed Sep 9, 2020 2:19 am

I see a lot Jalen Brown in Okoro. I would love to trade Lauri for the 10th pick. But I doubt Okoro lasts that long. I could even seen the Cavs snagging him at 5.
AKME? More like MEAK with how they're afraid to make a move to push us in one direction.

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#45 » by drosereturn » Wed Sep 9, 2020 2:24 am

Clint Eastwood wrote:I will be shocked if wiseman ends up falling to 4. If he does, run to the podium. He has superstar potential. And if he doesnt reach it, he at the very least will not be a bust. I would be happy with advija too, but i suspect wiseman is only there if advija is taken already.


Not shocking considering the league disregards centers. Same reason why MJ was passed to 3, I could see wiseman even fall to 7.
I hope AK isnt foolish enough to pass off bpa if he falls as much as I am a fan of small ball and motion offense.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#46 » by PlayerUp » Wed Sep 9, 2020 2:40 am

Chicagoat wrote:I see a lot Jalen Brown in Okoro. I would love to trade Lauri for the 10th pick. But I doubt Okoro lasts that long. I could even seen the Cavs snagging him at 5.


Maybe a poor version of Jalen Brown. Brown was a much better prospect coming into the draft. An upgrade all around offensively.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#47 » by Chicagoat » Wed Sep 9, 2020 3:07 am

PlayerUp wrote:
Chicagoat wrote:I see a lot Jalen Brown in Okoro. I would love to trade Lauri for the 10th pick. But I doubt Okoro lasts that long. I could even seen the Cavs snagging him at 5.


Maybe a poor version of Jalen Brown. Brown was a much better prospect coming into the draft. An upgrade all around offensively.


Fair point, Okoro pretty much only has his spin and euro step for his consistent offensive arsenal. He also showed enough of a soft touch at the rim for me to believe that his shot will come around. But I really am enamored by his defensive potential. Kid has a good BBIQ by looking at his team defense and not being risky on steals/blocks. So it's nice to see that Okoro seems to be a basketball player that's athletic instead of a athlete playing basketball(I.E Nassir Little)

Okoro finished in the 88th percentile in all of college basketball when defending in iso situations, allowing only .448 points per possession. Offensively, he has ways to go but I believe if shooting comes around; Okoro will outperform his draft position.

And it would not hurt to have Okoro being able to fit a need for us. So that's a nice bonus to have.
AKME? More like MEAK with how they're afraid to make a move to push us in one direction.

Continuity :banghead: :banghead:
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#48 » by PlayerUp » Wed Sep 9, 2020 3:12 am

Chicagoat wrote:
PlayerUp wrote:
Chicagoat wrote:I see a lot Jalen Brown in Okoro. I would love to trade Lauri for the 10th pick. But I doubt Okoro lasts that long. I could even seen the Cavs snagging him at 5.


Maybe a poor version of Jalen Brown. Brown was a much better prospect coming into the draft. An upgrade all around offensively.


Fair point, Okoro pretty much only has his spin and euro step for his consistent offensive arsenal. He also showed enough of a soft touch at the rim for me to believe that his shot will come around. But I really am enamored by his defensive potential. Kid has a good BBIQ by looking at his team defense and not being risky on steals/blocks. So it's nice to see that Okoro seems to be a basketball player that's athletic instead of a athlete playing basketball(I.E Nassir Little)

Okoro finished in the 88th percentile in all of college basketball when defending in iso situations, allowing only .448 points per possession. Offensively, he has ways to go but I believe if shooting comes around; Okoro will outperform his draft position.

And it would not hurt to have Okoro being able to fit a need for us. So that's a nice bonus to have.


Lets exclude Okoro completely from the Bulls draft list for now.

It's been 6 months now since the NCAA season ended. If Okoro comes into predraft workouts and shows AK he has an improved 3PT shot, improved handles, and a more polished offensive game, then lets talk Okoro at #4. Until then, we shouldn't be looking at options like Okoro who lack major key offensive game elements needed to be impactful at the NBA level.

Alternative Option: Devin Vassell who has a developed shot, also a solid defender and pretty athletic himself. They're also around the same age.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#49 » by Chicagoat » Wed Sep 9, 2020 3:33 am

PlayerUp wrote:
Chicagoat wrote:
PlayerUp wrote:
Maybe a poor version of Jalen Brown. Brown was a much better prospect coming into the draft. An upgrade all around offensively.


Fair point, Okoro pretty much only has his spin and euro step for his consistent offensive arsenal. He also showed enough of a soft touch at the rim for me to believe that his shot will come around. But I really am enamored by his defensive potential. Kid has a good BBIQ by looking at his team defense and not being risky on steals/blocks. So it's nice to see that Okoro seems to be a basketball player that's athletic instead of a athlete playing basketball(I.E Nassir Little)

Okoro finished in the 88th percentile in all of college basketball when defending in iso situations, allowing only .448 points per possession. Offensively, he has ways to go but I believe if shooting comes around; Okoro will outperform his draft position.

And it would not hurt to have Okoro being able to fit a need for us. So that's a nice bonus to have.


Lets exclude Okoro completely from the Bulls draft list for now.

It's been 6 months now since the NCAA season ended. If Okoro comes into predraft workouts and shows AK he has an improved 3PT shot, improved handles, and a more polished offensive game, then lets talk Okoro at #4. Until then, we shouldn't be looking at options like Okoro who lack major key offensive game elements needed to be impactful at the NBA level.

Alternative Option: Devin Vassell who has a developed shot, also a solid defender and pretty athletic himself.


Honestly, Okoro as he is, does not a warrant selection in the top 4. It would more appealing to trade for another pick in the 9th 10th range with Lauri as trade bait and hope to snag Okoro there. But if we do hold a virtual combine, I just can't see Okoro lasting that long in my honest opinion.

Vassell seems like a good pick but I just can't see him lasting past the Knicks and Wizards.Personally speaking I have Okoro over Vassell(based on defensive versatility and possible upside) I also am skeptical on Vassell's shot since he only shot 73% from the FT line. Which is good but it does not project him to be a elite shooter in the next level.I understand Okoro is one to talk since he shot a pedestrian 67% from the line. But I am giving him the benefit of the doubt since he's a freshman. Maybe I am too soft on Okoro and too hard on Vassell. But I do not understand the love some have for Vassell.
AKME? More like MEAK with how they're afraid to make a move to push us in one direction.

Continuity :banghead: :banghead:
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#50 » by Clint Eastwood » Wed Sep 9, 2020 3:43 am

Showtime23 wrote:
Clint Eastwood wrote:I will be shocked if wiseman ends up falling to 4. If he does, run to the podium. He has superstar potential. And if he doesnt reach it, he at the very least will not be a bust. I would be happy with advija too, but i suspect wiseman is only there if advija is taken already.


Not shocking considering the league disregards centers. Same reason why MJ was passed to 3, I could see wiseman even fall to 7.
I hope AK isnt foolish enough to pass off bpa if he falls as much as I am a fan of small ball and motion offense.

Care to make a sig bet on this?

And if Wiseman is there at 4, he most certainly is the BPA anyway.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#51 » by Leslie Forman » Wed Sep 9, 2020 4:16 am

Showtime23 wrote:
Clint Eastwood wrote:I will be shocked if wiseman ends up falling to 4. If he does, run to the podium. He has superstar potential. And if he doesnt reach it, he at the very least will not be a bust. I would be happy with advija too, but i suspect wiseman is only there if advija is taken already.


Not shocking considering the league disregards centers. Same reason why MJ was passed to 3, I could see wiseman even fall to 7.
I hope AK isnt foolish enough to pass off bpa if he falls as much as I am a fan of small ball and motion offense.

Uhhh wut?

Luka Doncic went #3 behind two inferior bigs just two years ago. That is the equivalent of MJ going third. Some low skill, low IQ, low versatility center being talked about as a top-3 pick when we see how utterly useless these guys are in the playoffs right now is proof of how overrated height still is.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#52 » by Just_Bullz » Wed Sep 9, 2020 4:32 am

Do we see Wiseman in the vein of Embiid or KAT? I'm not sure man, the era of big men is pretty irrelevant in the modern game unless they can shoot.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#53 » by wonderboy2 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 4:35 am

Grodoboldo wrote:
wonderboy2 wrote:It’s funny how people around the league actually like the bulls young core of Carter, White, Lavine, Markannan. But this board **** on them. But this board like players like Sato when analysts and people from opposing teams don’t like or want him.


If you manage to sit next to AK next summer league, you're gonna bring this Sato subject up, aren't you?

You best believe it lol. He has to go.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#54 » by Clint Eastwood » Wed Sep 9, 2020 5:04 am

Just_Bullz wrote:Do we see Wiseman in the vein of Embiid or KAT? I'm not sure man, the era of big men is pretty irrelevant in the modern game unless they can shoot.

I think he is way more skilled and mobile than people here realize. Would David Robinson be good in todays nba, because that is who he reminds me of. He may never reach that, of course. And we have limited tape on him, but that is why we can even hope he falls to 4. If he had a full year of great tape in college, he would be the consensus 1 for sure. So seems like a great risk if we are fortunate to have a shot at him.

And everything I’ve read is he is intelligent and has good work ethic. This is key when drafting a unique huge specimen like wiseman.

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#55 » by PlayerUp » Wed Sep 9, 2020 6:24 am

Clint Eastwood wrote:
Just_Bullz wrote:Do we see Wiseman in the vein of Embiid or KAT? I'm not sure man, the era of big men is pretty irrelevant in the modern game unless they can shoot.

I think he is way more skilled and mobile than people here realize. Would David Robinson be good in todays nba, because that is who he reminds me of. He may never reach that, of course. And we have limited tape on him, but that is why we can even hope he falls to 4. If he had a full year of great tape in college, he would be the consensus 1 for sure. So seems like a great risk if we are fortunate to have a shot at him.

And everything I’ve read is he is intelligent and has good work ethic. This is key when drafting a unique huge specimen like wiseman.



We haven't seen James Wiseman play in almost a year.

You have to believe with such a large gap from the time they last played up until the Late October/Early November draft that someone is going to standout here. That's the person I would draft. The player that has made a big leap forward since we last saw them play.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#56 » by MrFortune3 » Wed Sep 9, 2020 6:35 am

I just don't see a scenario where Wiseman falls to the Bulls. I would absolutely love him on the Bulls but he fits the needs of Charlotte too perfectly for them to pass up.

The issue for Wiseman is that he only got to show 3 games of footage to scouts. He was great in HS and he was very good in his 3 games at Memphis. He needs seasoning but you are looking at a instant starter with the potential to be a defensive anchor while you allow him to develop his offensive game.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#57 » by Rose2Boozer » Wed Sep 9, 2020 6:38 am

Isaiah Stewart is going to really help whichever team decides to give him a chance. I think he's grossly underrated.

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#58 » by Leslie Forman » Wed Sep 9, 2020 6:59 am

The worry with Wiseman for me is, and this might end up being completely misguided of course, is that #1 American high school true 7-footers that are prospects with genuine superstar potential always go #1, especially in a draft this weak. Generally speaking, if you're 7 feet tall, and you're going to be a stud pro, the NBA is absolutely ON that sh*t. Even if you aren't, you'll still probably go #1. There's no 7-foot tall American star centers who just sorta sneak by everyone. Towns went #1 after averaging 10/7 in college!

The way people following the AAU/college circuits talk about Wiseman, you just aren't getting any of that feeling that this is the next Great American Center. And that should make people skeptical, because they would be absolutely raving about a center prospect like that if he was really at that level.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#59 » by JohnnyTapwater » Wed Sep 9, 2020 10:52 am

[*]
Leslie Forman wrote:The worry with Wiseman for me is, and this might end up being completely misguided of course, is that #1 American high school true 7-footers that are prospects with genuine superstar potential always go #1, especially in a draft this weak. Generally speaking, if you're 7 feet tall, and you're going to be a stud pro, the NBA is absolutely ON that sh*t. Even if you aren't, you'll still probably go #1. There's no 7-foot tall American star centers who just sorta sneak by everyone. Towns went #1 after averaging 10/7 in college!

The way people following the AAU/college circuits talk about Wiseman, you just aren't getting any of that feeling that this is the next Great American Center. And that should make people skeptical, because they would be absolutely raving about a center prospect like that if he was really at that level.



That can all be explained with how much the center position has been devalued in the league---And with less tape, the "experts" and "analyst" have to lean on the known commodities like production and league trends---or some sort of predictive metric that doesn't really exist due to sample size.---The real ones go off of those things AND perspective and their knowledge of the game and what could be. They see a 19 year old, 7 foot tall, condor armed, ball of clay.

It's a copycat league until a team dares to go a different route and blaze a trail.

I, mostly, care about these kids motor, work ethic, and attitude. A nice cocktail of these things, coupled with some verifiable skill and talent is where my attention goes.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#60 » by PlayerUp » Wed Sep 9, 2020 11:00 am

Rose2Boozer wrote:Isaiah Stewart is going to really help whichever team decides to give him a chance. I think he's grossly underrated.



He wasn't underrated pre NCAA season, he was a projected Top 10 Pick. He dropped significantly and could even be an early 2nd Rd Pick now. His skillset is questionable if it will be impactful at the next level in this modern NBA. He's a PF who just scores inside. Has no shot, can't handle the ball, can't make plays, slow. Maybe he can develop some skills later on but these are the many reasons he has slipped so far in the draft.

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