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2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2

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Desired Prospect

Ball
12
12%
Wiseman
14
14%
Deni
24
25%
Hayes
22
23%
Obi
4
4%
Vassell
8
8%
Okoro
1
1%
Haliburton
5
5%
Onyeka
3
3%
Other
4
4%
 
Total votes: 97

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#461 » by Grodoboldo » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:50 am

Fastbrk4brkfast wrote:Hayes and Okongwu are both potentially foundational pieces for a franchise. I lean toward Okongwu because I think the gap between him and Wendell (and definitely Young) is wider than the gap between Hayes and White. I'm not even sure Hayes is better tbh. He's slower than Coby and a worse shooter especially on catch and shoot which we need to keep the floor spread. And I'm more confident of Okongwu's success in the NBA. The college competition was just so clearly beneath him. And I'd say we need Okongwu's rebounding and high % scoring as much or more than Hayes' playmaking.


Your point of view is very understandable.
I think our different views come from me viewing
a) Coby and Hayes (my preferred pick) not playing the same position, as in Hayes being a primary ball handler and complementary floor spacer, while Coby is a primary shot-maker and floor spacer, but a secondary ball-handler
b) even if their evolutions as players make them alike, by modern standards, it's really easy seeing both sharing the court
c) Okongwu and Carter play very much the same role, even if with different strenghts
d) no matter their evolutions as players, it's really hard envisioning both sharing the court at most times.

So, if one finds Okongwu and Hayes at the same tier (apparently not our cases, as in I prefer Hayes and you Okongwu), that's why Hayes would pull ahead.
I don't know anything about college basketball. I would rather trade down/out. My Bulls big board for the 2020 Draft (as of September 4th):
1-Edwards; 2-Hayes; 3-Ball; 4-Avdija; 5-Haliburton; 6-Nesmith; 7-Vassel; 8-Okongwu; 9-Williams; 10-Pokusevski.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#462 » by PlayerUp » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:09 am

bad knees wrote:
cjbulls wrote:For anyone against taking a big like Okongwu or Wiseman, watch what Bam just did to Tatum. Wow


Bam made a nice block, but he would be home fishing for weeks without a lead guard/wing like Butler to lead the team. Bam is a wonderful complementary player, but the Heat are nowhere without Jimmy.


Bam Adebayo 3.06 DRPM (#11) - Age 22
Wendell Carter 2.43 DRPM (#26) - Age 20

Bam Adebayo 2.06 meters
Wendell Carter 2.06 meters

What Bam does is no different from what Wendell does when healthy. They're both just as impactful defensively. Wendell isn't our core problem, he just needs to be healthy and develop. Focus on fixing Wendell rather than adding a 2nd Wendell with our #4 pick.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#463 » by cjbulls » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:30 am

For all the centers are dead crowd. 3 of the 4 conference finals teams feature an all star center.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#464 » by Grodoboldo » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:42 am

cjbulls wrote:For all the centers are dead crowd. 3 of the 4 conference finals teams feature an all star center.


All of them can either shoot or pass very well.
I believe ours can do both.
Having said that, only the Lakers try to play with 2 frontcourt players at once. And we all know it's not their best lineup (AD should cut the crap and acknowledge he's a 5).
I don't know anything about college basketball. I would rather trade down/out. My Bulls big board for the 2020 Draft (as of September 4th):
1-Edwards; 2-Hayes; 3-Ball; 4-Avdija; 5-Haliburton; 6-Nesmith; 7-Vassel; 8-Okongwu; 9-Williams; 10-Pokusevski.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#465 » by PlayerUp » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:44 am

cjbulls wrote:For all the centers are dead crowd. 3 of the 4 conference finals teams feature an all star center.


Last year it was 0 of the 4 conference finals teams feature an all star center.

Also why can't Wendell become an all star center? What makes Wiseman and Okongwu have more upside than Wendell?
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#466 » by Chicagoat » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:52 am

I am a believer of Wendell. He's made of glass, which is ironic since we passed on MPJ cause of that.(Jury is still out on that)

But we'll have a new coaching system for him to flourish in and showcase his passing and scoring ability. I wouldn't want to trade Carter since he fits the modern NBA so much. He just needs to get healthy and get enough reps to improve. You would only draft his replacement if their ceiling is clearly higher and you don't believe that Wendell will ever play more than 50 games in a season.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#467 » by Chi town » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:53 am

PlayerUp wrote:
cjbulls wrote:For all the centers are dead crowd. 3 of the 4 conference finals teams feature an all star center.


Last year it was 0 of the 4 conference finals teams feature an all star center.

Also why can't Wendell become an all star center? What makes Wiseman and Okongwu have more upside than Wendell?


I agree. I think WCJ can bring what those bring. He’s shown to be a strong defender when healthy. His health is my only issue.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#468 » by cjbulls » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:00 am

PlayerUp wrote:
cjbulls wrote:For all the centers are dead crowd. 3 of the 4 conference finals teams feature an all star center.


Last year it was 0 of the 4 conference finals teams feature an all star center.

Also why can't Wendell become an all star center? What makes Wiseman and Okongwu have more upside than Wendell?


It’s almost as if you can succeed with any type of roster.

I’m a big WCJ believer. But also want bulls to draft BPA
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#469 » by PlayerUp » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:01 am

I'm 100% on board for taking James Wiseman at #4 if he slips to us.

Then we should immediately trade down and move him for a pick between #5-#9 and pickup a point guard or wing along with another asset. We don't need Wiseman on this roster and he likely would not fit well next to Wendell. Now if Wiseman wants to change my mind and show us he is clearly going to be a better player than Wendell then he can do that by going into predraft workouts and showing how much he has improved over the last 10+ months to AK. Until then, we can only see what we have seen so far and Wiseman as of now has not shown us he is this center of the future piece we must have on this roster.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#470 » by cjbulls » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:01 am

PlayerUp wrote:I'm 100% on board though for taking James Wiseman at #4 if he slips to us.

Then we should immediately trade down and move him for a pick between #5-#9 and pickup a point guard or wing along with another asset. We don't need Wiseman on this roster and he likely would not fit well next to Wendell. Now if Wiseman wants to change my mind and show us he is clearly going to be a better player than Wendell then he can do that by going into predraft workouts and showing how much he has improved over the last 10+ months to AK. Until then, we can only see what we have seen so far and Wiseman as of now has not shown us he is this center of the future piece we must have on this roster.


If Wiseman does that, he won’t go #4
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#471 » by kodo » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:02 am

cjbulls wrote:For all the centers are dead crowd. 3 of the 4 conference finals teams feature an all star center.


AD is not the center, McGee is the Lakers center and he's been benched as a starter.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#472 » by Rose2Boozer » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:03 am

Wendell Carter Jr. is a very good prospect, but he's not 7'1", 240lbs, with a 7'6" wingspan. James Wiseman is genetic wonder, and Carter Jr. is an undersized five who probably see himself as a power forward. If Carter Jr. can get down to a respectable 250lbs, he'd be a good front court partner with Wiseman. The Bulls are probably going to need two guys who can clean up the mistakes on the perimeter.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#473 » by PlayerUp » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:10 am

Rose2Boozer wrote:Wendell Carter Jr. is a very good prospect, but he's not 7'1", 240lbs, with a 7'6" wingspan. James Wiseman is genetic wonder, and Carter Jr. is an undersized five who probably see himself as a power forward. If Carter Jr. can get down to a respectable 250lbs, he'd be a good front court partner with Wiseman. The Bulls are probably going to need two guys who can clean up the mistakes on the perimeter.


This would require 3 things:

1. Wendell develops a consistent 3PT shot.
2. Wendell loses weight to play the 4 spot
3. Wiseman develops a consistent outside shot.

You badly need spacing as seen in this playoffs. Having 2 guys who can't shoot outside will never work in this modern NBA.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#474 » by MrFortune3 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:12 am

Just_Bullz wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:
Just_Bullz wrote:Really don't need a Wiseman on this team. A hard pass please.

The game evolves, it's no longer a big man's league. Embiid, KAT, Cousins, even AD can't bring their team far enough in the playoffs when they are the focal point.


AD and Cousins had very little help when they were on their own respective teams. KAT is lazy as **** and Embiid is on the worst balanced roster in the NBA.


And as if Wiseman will be better off than them if he is in Chicago. Everyone has an excuse or reason for any misfortune they faced.


Zach is a very good compliment for Wiseman and already a star player. Just from viewing the Nuggets roster and stance on player development, I doubt Wiseman would be in a similar situation if he comes to Chicago.
Hell, outside of Charlotte it'd be tough for him to land in a similar situation to AD.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#475 » by wonderboy2 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:03 am

JohnnyTapwater wrote:
cjbulls wrote:For anyone against taking a big like Okongwu or Wiseman, watch what Bam just did to Tatum. Wow



Why would Okongwu be able to do it, but Wiseman can't?

I can only see Ben Wallace doing what Bam did to Tatum. That was filthy.

Gafford has a similar block on Tatum last season. I could see Carter blocking Tatum as well. He had an impressive block on Westbrook his rookie season.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#476 » by cjbulls » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:03 am

kodo wrote:
cjbulls wrote:For all the centers are dead crowd. 3 of the 4 conference finals teams feature an all star center.


AD is not the center, McGee is the Lakers center and he's been benched as a starter.


So for all their important games, they made him the center. Got it.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#477 » by BullsFTW » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:05 am

Killian Hayes is actually a little bit more athletic than what he is credited for. He just turned 19, and will continue to grow physically. He’s crafty and is a decent playmaker who has good shooting touch. A bit left hand dominant and turnover prone, but that will improve with work and experience.

A three guard line-up of Hayes, Coby, and LaVine can work.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#478 » by drosereturn » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:15 am

BullsFTW wrote:Killian Hayes is actually a little bit more athletic than what he is credited for. He just turned 19, and will continue to grow physically. He’s crafty and is a decent playmaker who has good shooting touch. A bit left hand dominant and turnover prone, but that will improve with work and experience.

A three guard line-up of Hayes, Coby, and LaVine can work.


Hayes is not the best talent available at 4. After witnessing how denver is on brink of winning a chip, im fully confident AK will pick the best talent regardless of position and that could also mean trading down and draft 2 of Hali, Vassell, Poku. If he drafts Okongwu/ Wiseman, it would mean trading Carter bc he just sucks.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#479 » by drosereturn » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:19 am

PlayerUp wrote:
Rose2Boozer wrote:Wendell Carter Jr. is a very good prospect, but he's not 7'1", 240lbs, with a 7'6" wingspan. James Wiseman is genetic wonder, and Carter Jr. is an undersized five who probably see himself as a power forward. If Carter Jr. can get down to a respectable 250lbs, he'd be a good front court partner with Wiseman. The Bulls are probably going to need two guys who can clean up the mistakes on the perimeter.


This would require 3 things:

1. Wendell develops a consistent 3PT shot.
2. Wendell loses weight to play the 4 spot
3. Wiseman develops a consistent outside shot.

You badly need spacing as seen in this playoffs. Having 2 guys who can't shoot outside will never work in this modern NBA.


Wiseman is several times better prospect than Carter he will just replace Carter. I dont ever see Carter developing a shot until his rookie contract and lose weight to guard multiple positions since he has been complaining to defend bigger 5s than him.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#480 » by drosereturn » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:25 am

PlayerUp wrote:What Bam does is no different from what Wendell does when healthy. They're both just as impactful defensively. Wendell isn't our core problem, he just needs to be healthy and develop. Focus on fixing Wendell rather than adding a 2nd Wendell with our #4 pick.


Hmm. When do you not evaluate health when discussing a players trade value?
Health is exactly the number 1 reason why he needs to get traded bc if hes missing 40 games every season, he aint gonna develop.
Has been in the league for 2 yrs. every yr injury prone even more so than Lauri. not interested in a guy thats spending half of his career in hospital. would have been the same for embiid but he has nowhere the talent level so easy decision.
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