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2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2

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Desired Prospect

Ball
12
12%
Wiseman
14
14%
Deni
24
25%
Hayes
22
23%
Obi
4
4%
Vassell
8
8%
Okoro
1
1%
Haliburton
5
5%
Onyeka
3
3%
Other
4
4%
 
Total votes: 97

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#481 » by BullsFTW » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:30 am

drosereturn wrote:
BullsFTW wrote:Killian Hayes is actually a little bit more athletic than what he is credited for. He just turned 19, and will continue to grow physically. He’s crafty and is a decent playmaker who has good shooting touch. A bit left hand dominant and turnover prone, but that will improve with work and experience.

A three guard line-up of Hayes, Coby, and LaVine can work.


Hayes is not the best talent available at 4. After witnessing how denver is on brink of winning a chip, im fully confident AK will pick the best talent regardless of position and that could also mean trading down and draft 2 of Hali, Vassell, Poku. If he drafts Okongwu/ Wiseman, it would mean trading Carter bc he just sucks.

That’s your opinion, but what if AKME rates Hayes in the Top 4? After all, he does his homework with international players.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#482 » by PlayerUp » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:35 am

drosereturn wrote:Wiseman is several times better prospect than Carter he will just replace Carter.


Several times better prospect? What does that even mean?

drosereturn wrote:I dont ever see Carter developing a shot until his rookie contract and lose weight to guard multiple positions since he has been complaining to defend bigger 5s than him.


Wendell Carter shot 41.3% from 3 in college.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#483 » by BullsFTW » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:36 am

PlayerUp wrote:
bad knees wrote:
cjbulls wrote:For anyone against taking a big like Okongwu or Wiseman, watch what Bam just did to Tatum. Wow


Bam made a nice block, but he would be home fishing for weeks without a lead guard/wing like Butler to lead the team. Bam is a wonderful complementary player, but the Heat are nowhere without Jimmy.


Bam Adebayo 3.06 DRPM (#11) - Age 22
Wendell Carter 2.43 DRPM (#26) - Age 20

Bam Adebayo 2.06 meters
Wendell Carter 2.06 meters

What Bam does is no different from what Wendell does when healthy. They're both just as impactful defensively. Wendell isn't our core problem, he just needs to be healthy and develop. Focus on fixing Wendell rather than adding a 2nd Wendell with our #4 pick.

I agree. I think WCJ can be as good as Bam. The problem is he needs to stay healthy. It’s just frustrating that he was always out with an injury. Hopefully being under a new regime will help his game improve.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#484 » by PlayerUp » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:53 am

drosereturn wrote:Hmm. When do you not evaluate health when discussing a players trade value?
Health is exactly the number 1 reason why he needs to get traded bc if hes missing 40 games every season, he aint gonna develop.
Has been in the league for 2 yrs. every yr injury prone even more so than Lauri. not interested in a guy thats spending half of his career in hospital. would have been the same for embiid but he has nowhere the talent level so easy decision.


Everyone on the Bulls roster is always hurt. Dunn, Lavine, Lauri, Wendell, Hutch, Denzel, Otto. This isn't just a coincidence either, it happens every season. The problem starts at the top. Now the people at the top are gone. Lets see what AK can do to address our injury issues.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#485 » by StunnerKO » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:40 am

cjbulls wrote:
Chi town wrote:
cjbulls wrote:For anyone against taking a big like Okongwu or Wiseman, watch what Bam just did to Tatum. Wow


We got WCJ to do that.


I really like WCJ and am totally comfortable with him as the Bulls long term center, but I just don’t see him making that clean of a block.


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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#486 » by JohnnyTapwater » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:55 am

C WCJ Jokic Bam
PF Lauri Millsap Crowder
SF Porter Grant Butler
SG Zach Harris Robinson
PG Coby Murray Dragic


Further internal development + which draft scenario gets our roster closer to Denver or Miami?

Coaching & smarter play makers like Deni Advija get us closer to Denver than we might think. They have players with defined roles. We need a coach that’ll better define the roles of our players.

Coaching and the following type of players (Devin Vassell, Aaron Nesmith, Killian Hayes) get us closer to Miami IMO. Zach would have to make that playmaking & defensive leap --- Coby would have to do the same --- Lauri --- WCJ --- Porter needs to stay healthy --- Like, Boylen really screwed us with his coaching and lack of development.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#487 » by sco » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:59 am

cjbulls wrote:
23-7 wrote:arch, porter are smart


I didn’t consider them to be what I meant as “young players”, i.e. their future prospects.

I think Coby and Carter are both very smart too.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#488 » by MGB8 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:09 pm

PlayerUp wrote:
drosereturn wrote:Wiseman is several times better prospect than Carter he will just replace Carter.


Several times better prospect? What does that even mean?

drosereturn wrote:I dont ever see Carter developing a shot until his rookie contract and lose weight to guard multiple positions since he has been complaining to defend bigger 5s than him.


Wendell Carter shot 41.3% from 3 in college.


But in two NBA seasons he's shot 19% and 21% from 3 on low volume, and has also hasn't brought huge block production - as a rookie 2.5 per 36 minutes, which is good but not an elite rim protector type, and this past season (granted, injury impaired) 1.4 blocks per 36 - while in both seasons averaging more than 6 personal fouls per 36....
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#489 » by MGB8 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:18 pm

BullsFTW wrote:
PlayerUp wrote:
bad knees wrote:
Bam made a nice block, but he would be home fishing for weeks without a lead guard/wing like Butler to lead the team. Bam is a wonderful complementary player, but the Heat are nowhere without Jimmy.


Bam Adebayo 3.06 DRPM (#11) - Age 22
Wendell Carter 2.43 DRPM (#26) - Age 20

Bam Adebayo 2.06 meters
Wendell Carter 2.06 meters

What Bam does is no different from what Wendell does when healthy. They're both just as impactful defensively. Wendell isn't our core problem, he just needs to be healthy and develop. Focus on fixing Wendell rather than adding a 2nd Wendell with our #4 pick.

I agree. I think WCJ can be as good as Bam. The problem is he needs to stay healthy. It’s just frustrating that he was always out with an injury. Hopefully being under a new regime will help his game improve.


I don't think that WCJ can become as good as Bam - Bam is more fluid and bouncier athlete.

In terms of to Wiseman or not, that goes down to evaluations of Wiseman's relative upside - but he strikes me as at least as quick as Carter, both straight line and laterally, with better hands, better touch, more fluid movement, and a significant size advantage.

Carter reminds me a lot of Antonio Davis - who was a darn good player and even made one all-star game, but who was a bruiser in a different era. Yeah, Carter's younger than Antonio coming in, and produced more in terms of volume (though much more similar per36, and taking the higher scoring era into account) than Davis... but the style of player, and possibly the overall ceiling, isn't in that "one all star game or so in his career" range - at least in terms of where he most likely ends up at. Wiseman *potentially* is a perennial all star --- although I don't see him as a generational talent / superstar level player. But not sure there is one in this draft - Antonio Edwards probably has the best chance of being that.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#490 » by BullsFTW » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:55 pm

MGB8 wrote:
BullsFTW wrote:
PlayerUp wrote:
Bam Adebayo 3.06 DRPM (#11) - Age 22
Wendell Carter 2.43 DRPM (#26) - Age 20

Bam Adebayo 2.06 meters
Wendell Carter 2.06 meters

What Bam does is no different from what Wendell does when healthy. They're both just as impactful defensively. Wendell isn't our core problem, he just needs to be healthy and develop. Focus on fixing Wendell rather than adding a 2nd Wendell with our #4 pick.

I agree. I think WCJ can be as good as Bam. The problem is he needs to stay healthy. It’s just frustrating that he was always out with an injury. Hopefully being under a new regime will help his game improve.


I don't think that WCJ can become as good as Bam - Bam is more fluid and bouncier athlete.

In terms of to Wiseman or not, that goes down to evaluations of Wiseman's relative upside - but he strikes me as at least as quick as Carter, both straight line and laterally, with better hands, better touch, more fluid movement, and a significant size advantage.

Carter reminds me a lot of Antonio Davis - who was a darn good player and even made one all-star game, but who was a bruiser in a different era. Yeah, Carter's younger than Antonio coming in, and produced more in terms of volume (though much more similar per36, and taking the higher scoring era into account) than Davis... but the style of player, and possibly the overall ceiling, isn't in that "one all star game or so in his career" range - at least in terms of where he most likely ends up at. Wiseman *potentially* is a perennial all star --- although I don't see him as a generational talent / superstar level player. But not sure there is one in this draft - Antonio Edwards probably has the best chance of being that.

Bam has had the opportunity to play in a good system and has been able to stay healthy. Had WCJ been in the same situation, I think he would’ve thrived like Bam. Bam has the edge right now, but IF WCJ can get it together next season, then he’ll close the gap.

Physically they’re similar, but I’m not sure about the Antonio Davis comparison because WCJ has more offensive skills. He can shoot and has more fluid post moves than Antonio.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#491 » by Chi town » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:03 pm

Bam can handle the ball and take a bigger defender off the dribble. Both Lauri and WCJ haven't shown that ability yet.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#492 » by PlayerUp » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:14 pm

Chi town wrote:Both Lauri and WCJ haven't shown that ability yet.


Lauri may have peaked in college. He has barely improved at all since entering the NBA.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#493 » by TheHrvReport » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:22 pm

Bam is much better than Wendell. His fluidity, ball handling, shooting and passing set him apart.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#494 » by TheSuzerain » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:30 pm

WCJ is just very average athletically in the NBA. It really limits him.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#495 » by PlayerUp » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:13 pm

TheHrvReport wrote:Bam is much better than Wendell. His fluidity, ball handling, shooting and passing set him apart.


Bam is 2 years older and hasn't been hurt in a much better system that has really developed him.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#496 » by PlayerUp » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:17 pm

TheSuzerain wrote:WCJ is just very average athletically in the NBA. It really limits him.


Bam
Wingspan is 7-2 3/4
Standing reach: 9 feet

Wendell
Wingspan is 7'4.5
Standing reach: 9'1

Measurements are slightly better. With all that said, Wendell being as good as Bam is unlikely. Still if Wendell can be close to Bam which he could be then that's all that matters. Point here with all this talk is we have a defensive anchor and we should work to make Wendell work versus trying to replace him just 2 years after we drafted him.

The problem in our backcourt is really Lauri. The guy has been in the league 3 years and hasn't improved.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#497 » by TheSuzerain » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:47 pm

PlayerUp wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:WCJ is just very average athletically in the NBA. It really limits him.


Bam
Wingspan is 7-2 3/4
Standing reach: 9 feet

Wendell
Wingspan is 7'4.5
Standing reach: 9'1

Measurements are slightly better. With all that said, Wendell being as good as Bam is unlikely. Still if Wendell can be close to Bam which he could be then that's all that matters. Point here with all this talk is we have a defensive anchor and we should work to make Wendell work versus trying to replace him just 2 years after we drafted him.

The problem in our backcourt is really Lauri. The guy has been in the league 3 years and hasn't improved.

lol I'm not talking about height/wingspan. He can't jump/move like Bam.

And that lack of athleticism probably locks his ceiling in as a "good" starting center.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#498 » by CoreyVillains » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:27 pm

Just finished my latest breakdown on Nico Mannion. Obviously not a target for our lottery pick and he’ll more than likely be gone by the time our second pick rolls around, however if he was still there I’d be fine with him as the selection.

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#499 » by PlayerUp » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:32 pm

TheSuzerain wrote:lol I'm not talking about height/wingspan. He can't jump/move like Bam.

And that lack of athleticism probably locks his ceiling in as a "good" starting center.


Didn't say you were but there are other areas Wendell is better than Bam at.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2 

Post#500 » by Portiseyes » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:00 pm

Mulling it over and I think I would send Lauri to Pheonix for their pick if they’re game, and select Hayes and Nesmith. Lauri the better value but any real chance of being a serious contender in the next couple years would involve landing AD or Giannis in FA and so I don’t love the idea of a long term deal there. We’d miss out on possible upside of course but at least we wouldn’t lose him for nothing. Find a way to plug the hole at the 4 next year or try starting Porter there.

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