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Best Bulls before MJ?

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Best Bulls before MJ? 

Post#1 » by Ugly Duckling » Tue Sep 8, 2020 3:11 pm

This thread started out about the best all-time Bulls lineup and how it'd rank with others, but it's pretty clear the Lakers and even some other teams have better all-time lineups. So why not talk about the best Bulls prior to MJ? Love, Gilmore, Walker, Sloan, etc.? I'd love to learn some Bulls history
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Re: All-time Bulls lineup? Best in the league? 

Post#2 » by kodo » Tue Sep 8, 2020 4:54 pm

I think this will be very similar for most people, my only difference is including Artis.
PG - Rose
SG - MJ
SF - Pip
PF - Rodman
C - A-Train

The bench might be more interesting as a discussion. And did anyone watch Love play? I assume he would top Rodman?
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Re: All-time Bulls lineup? Best in the league? 

Post#3 » by Ugly Duckling » Tue Sep 8, 2020 5:30 pm

kodo wrote:I think this will be very similar for most people, my only difference is including Artis.
PG - Rose
SG - MJ
SF - Pip
PF - Rodman
C - A-Train

The bench might be more interesting as a discussion. And did anyone watch Love play? I assume he would top Rodman?


Artis looked really good from the clips I've seen. And I know the lineups will be very similar, hence the second (main) part of the question, which you didn't answer
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Re: All-time Bulls lineup? Best in the league? 

Post#4 » by Bullflip » Tue Sep 8, 2020 5:44 pm

PG - Rose
SG - Jordan
SF - Pippen
PF - Rodman
C - A-Train

6th - Kukoc
BN - Korver
BN - Deng
BN - Van Lier
BN - Noah
BN - Love
BN - Kerr

I think the Lakers have a great all-time team that would probably beat the Bulls.

PG - Magic
SG - West
SF - Lebron
PF - Abdul-Jabbar
C - Shaq
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Re: All-time Bulls lineup? Best in the league? 

Post#5 » by musiqsoulchild » Tue Sep 8, 2020 5:57 pm

Lakers all time team is REALLY REALLY good.

Celtics might have something to say too:

Bill Russell
Kevin Garnett
Larry Bird
Ray Allen
Bob Cousy

I mean, Havlicek is your 6th man. Lol. Some team there.
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Re: All-time Bulls lineup? Best in the league? 

Post#6 » by DaMayor07 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 6:22 pm

Bullflip wrote:PG - Rose
SG - Jordan
SF - Pippen
PF - Rodman
C - A-Train

6th - Kukoc
BN - Korver
BN - Deng
BN - Van Lier
BN - Noah
BN - Love
BN - Kerr

I think the Lakers have a great all-time team that would probably beat the Bulls.

PG - Magic
SG - West
SF - Lebron
PF - Abdul-Jabbar
C - Shaq



take LeBron out, he hasn't done much for the Lakers org compared to Kobe. LeBron is more so a Cav/Heat legend than he is a Laker Legend
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Re: All-time Bulls lineup? Best in the league? 

Post#7 » by Leslie Forman » Tue Sep 8, 2020 6:43 pm

Assuming it's under today's rules, I would actually go with something like:

Gordon
Jordan
Pippen
Kukoc
Grant

I don't think anyone beats the Warriors. They obviously have modern shooting and versatility, but also, you know, Wilt freaking Chamberlain.
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Re: All-time Bulls lineup? Best in the league? 

Post#8 » by Ugly Duckling » Tue Sep 8, 2020 7:08 pm

Bullflip wrote:PG - Rose
SG - Jordan
SF - Pippen
PF - Rodman
C - A-Train

6th - Kukoc
BN - Korver
BN - Deng
BN - Van Lier
BN - Noah
BN - Love
BN - Kerr

I think the Lakers have a great all-time team that would probably beat the Bulls.

PG - Magic
SG - West
SF - Lebron
PF - Abdul-Jabbar
C - Shaq


I don't think it's fair to put Kareem at the 4. You might have to put Davis there and that makes a difference imo. Would Magic, Kobe, LeBron, Davis and Kareem still beat them? Probably. /thread
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Re: All-time Bulls lineup? Best in the league? 

Post#9 » by MrSparkle » Tue Sep 8, 2020 7:29 pm

Kind of depressing (because besides MJ/Pippen, the Bulls all-time roster is mediocre) but I feel like the Bulls all-time line-up could lose to a lot of different ones:

Warriors obviously: Curry-Klay-Durant-Dray-Wilt

Lakers: Magic-Kobe-Lebron-Davis-Shaq

Spurs: Parker-Manu-Kawhi-Duncan-Robinson (all in their young primes!)

Celtics: Rondo-Ray-Bird-Garnett-Russell

Rockets: Paul-Harden-McGrady-Moses-Hakeem

Mavs: Nash-Finley-Luka-Dirk-Chandler

Clippers: Paul-George-Kawhi-Griffin-Brand

I feel like a lot of the franchises either have the sharp modern 3P snipers the Bulls never had, or they had the superstar big men the Bulls never really had. I don't think Gilmore, Love, Grant come anywhere near the great big men in history.

I also think the Heat would be a different animal with the young version of Wade:

Hardaway-Wade-Lebron-Bosh-Alonzo

94 Magic with a prime T-Mac?

Anyway, I just go with BPA (Rose, Rodman) over player fit (Gordon, Grant), but I really don't like this player fit:

Rose-Jordan-Pippen-Kukoc-Rodman

Also missing Jimmy, but I'm not bothering with how mediocre the 3P spacing is. Considered him over Toni, but without a true center or 3P threat, it'd be too much.
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Re: All-time Bulls lineup? Best in the league? 

Post#10 » by Ice Man » Tue Sep 8, 2020 9:40 pm

Bullflip wrote:PG - Rose
SG - Jordan
SF - Pippen
PF - Rodman
C - A-Train

6th - Kukoc
BN - Korver
BN - Deng
BN - Van Lier
BN - Noah
BN - Love
BN - Kerr


Butler should be at worst the 6th man. But I think you have a better team yet if Rose is used as the 6th man for microwave offense, Butler starts, being the rich man's Ron Harper. The Bulls' starting defense would be ASTONISHING with Butler, Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, and A-Train. Rebounding too.
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Re: All-time Bulls lineup? Best in the league? 

Post#11 » by PaKii94 » Tue Sep 8, 2020 9:42 pm

Ice Man wrote:
Bullflip wrote:PG - Rose
SG - Jordan
SF - Pippen
PF - Rodman
C - A-Train

6th - Kukoc
BN - Korver
BN - Deng
BN - Van Lier
BN - Noah
BN - Love
BN - Kerr


Butler should be at worst the 6th man. But I think you have a better team yet if Rose is used as the 6th man for microwave offense, Butler starts, being the rich man's Ron Harper. The Bulls' starting defense would be ASTONISHING with Butler, Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, and A-Train. Rebounding too.


Ouch at trying to play offense against this lineup
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Re: All-time Bulls lineup? Best in the league? 

Post#12 » by ChettheJet » Tue Sep 8, 2020 9:47 pm

kodo wrote:I think this will be very similar for most people, my only difference is including Artis.
PG - Rose
SG - MJ
SF - Pip
PF - Rodman
C - A-Train

The bench might be more interesting as a discussion. And did anyone watch Love play? I assume he would top Rodman?


That's THE 5.

Rodman is of course out of this world as a rebounder, maybe a slight edge on defense, Bob Love stood toe to toe with the best any team put out there. The huge edge is Love on offense, never mattered who was in his face he could score. That goes for Walker too but he was the most clutch player I ever saw. Just like Jordan everybody knew Chet was going to get the ball when the game was on the line and in the lowpost, the turnaround jumper was money.

For you younger folks that's is the starting lineup the second unit you may not have seen.

Norm van Lier was intense on TV, he played tougher than that, he was the leader of a very veteran team, Reggie Theus was a flashier better ball handling version of Zach Lavine. Without much help at times he made you need to watch the games. I really wish they had kept him when Michael showed up.

Chet Walker HoF
Bob Love #10 retired
Noah
Norm Van Lier
Reggie Theus

third deep Horace was THE lunch ail guy, Yeah Boerwinkle was slow but high low, any post you want he could pass the ball where it needed to be. He would have excelled at screen roll because from the way he played he'd know precisely when to roll, if you thought Jerry Sloan was intense and hard nosed as a coach, he played that way and then some

Grant
Kukoc
Boerwinkle
Sloan
Butler
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Re: All-time Bulls lineup? Best in the league? 

Post#13 » by Ugly Duckling » Tue Sep 8, 2020 10:06 pm

ChettheJet wrote:
kodo wrote:I think this will be very similar for most people, my only difference is including Artis.
PG - Rose
SG - MJ
SF - Pip
PF - Rodman
C - A-Train

The bench might be more interesting as a discussion. And did anyone watch Love play? I assume he would top Rodman?


That's THE 5.

Rodman is of course out of this world as a rebounder, maybe a slight edge on defense, Bob Love stood toe to toe with the best any team put out there. The huge edge is Love on offense, never mattered who was in his face he could score. That goes for Walker too but he was the most clutch player I ever saw. Just like Jordan everybody knew Chet was going to get the ball when the game was on the line and in the lowpost, the turnaround jumper was money.

For you younger folks that's is the starting lineup the second unit you may not have seen.

Norm van Lier was intense on TV, he played tougher than that, he was the leader of a very veteran team, Reggie Theus was a flashier better ball handling version of Zach Lavine. Without much help at times he made you need to watch the games. I really wish they had kept him when Michael showed up.

Chet Walker HoF
Bob Love #10 retired
Noah
Norm Van Lier
Reggie Theus

third deep Horace was THE lunch ail guy, Yeah Boerwinkle was slow but high low, any post you want he could pass the ball where it needed to be. He would have excelled at screen roll because from the way he played he'd know precisely when to roll, if you thought Jerry Sloan was intense and hard nosed as a coach, he played that way and then some

Grant
Kukoc
Boerwinkle
Sloan
Butler


I'd never seen Chet Walker play. Just checked out some highlights. Looks like he had handles and a smooth jumper. Also seems like he had a good wingspan/ability to dribble around and shoot over defenders. Good to learn some Bulls history
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Re: Best Bulls before MJ? 

Post#14 » by dice » Wed Sep 9, 2020 3:10 am

6 yr peak VORP in a bulls uniform (reg. season):

65.1 MJ (my 1st team)
37.1 scottie (1st)
25.0 artis (1st)
18.9 jimmy (1st)
18.4* chet (2nd)

17.8 horace (2nd)
17.5 toni (2nd)
17.0 joakim (2nd)
14.0 derrick (1st)
13.1 luol

12.4* boerwinkle
12.1 kirk (2nd)
10.0 little ben
9.2* van lier
8.7* sloan

*estimated

bob love was a no defense chucker
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Re: Best Bulls before MJ? 

Post#15 » by prolific passer » Wed Sep 9, 2020 3:57 am

Sloan, Love, Boerwinkle, Van Lier, Gilmore, Chet Walker, Reggie Theus, Guy Rodgers, Clifford Ray.
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Re: Best Bulls before MJ? 

Post#16 » by Corzine's Lovechild » Wed Sep 9, 2020 8:11 pm

Corzine

/thread
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Re: Best Bulls before MJ? 

Post#17 » by HomoSapien » Wed Sep 9, 2020 9:30 pm

I really enjoy watching clips of Reggie Theus. Clearly he's not the best player pre-Jordan, but he had such a smooth game.
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Re: All-time Bulls lineup? Best in the league? 

Post#18 » by TeamMan » Wed Sep 9, 2020 10:24 pm

kodo wrote:I think this will be very similar for most people, my only difference is including Artis.
PG - Rose
SG - MJ
SF - Pip
PF - Rodman
C - A-Train

The bench might be more interesting as a discussion. And did anyone watch Love play? I assume he would top Rodman?

Saw some games when love played.

One season he started out averaging 27 PPG and was destroying most players who tried to guard him. His main strength was that he had very long arms and was a great shooter. He was 6-8 and most SFs at that time were 6-4 to 6-6 so he almost always had a height advantage. But if a player his size and length guarded him (Phil Jackson used to shut him down) then he struggled.


Rodman is one of the best rebounding PFs of all time and would have been a much better fit with Rose, MJ and PiP.

With those 4 guys Gilmore would have terrorized the league even more that he did. Gilmore was the Shaq of his day, but he never had a Koby and was old when he played off the bench with MJ.

Gilmore and Theus against Kareem and Magic
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Re: Best Bulls before MJ? 

Post#19 » by prolific passer » Wed Sep 9, 2020 10:38 pm

Too bad the bulls got rid of Gilmore just a few years before they drafted Jordan. I wonder if Gilmore was part of the cocaine circus days pre-Jordan.?
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Re: All-time Bulls lineup? Best in the league? 

Post#20 » by dougthonus » Wed Sep 9, 2020 10:58 pm

musiqsoulchild wrote:Lakers all time team is REALLY REALLY good.


It's comically good now.

C: Shaq / Kareem
PF: Davis / Pau
SF: LeBron / Baylor / Worthy
SG: Kobe
PG: Magic / West

Guess they have a big hole at back up SG where they don't have a HOF player and starting PF where they have two HOF players but neither is likely a top 2 guy at his position all time.

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