Image ImageImage Image

Pax's Worst Draft Day Decision

Moderators: HomoSapien, Tommy Udo 6 , dougthonus, GimmeDat, DASMACKDOWN, Payt10, kulaz3000, fleet, RedBulls23, AshyLarrysDiaper, Ice Man

What was Pax's Biggest Draft Day Blunder?

Poll ended at Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:54 am

Trading Aldridge for Tyrus Thomas
31
31%
Trading our 16th and 19th picks in for McDermott (Nuggets picked Nurkic and Gary Harris)
38
38%
Trading Butler for LaVine, Markkanen and Dunn
10
10%
Picking James Johnson over Jrue Holiday
5
5%
Trading Hinrich and the 17th pick to open up a 2nd max slot (which wasn't used) instead of drafting Bledsoe, Bradley or Whiteside
2
2%
Picking Marquis Teague over Draymond Green and Middleton
6
6%
Picking Snell over Gobert
3
3%
Picking Valentine over Siakam, Brogdan, Dejounte Murray and LaVert
0
No votes
Picking Markkanen over Donovan Mitchell, Bam Adebayo and John Collins
1
1%
Picking Wendell Carter over Shai-Gilageous Alexander and Michael Porter Jr.
5
5%
 
Total votes: 101

User avatar
Ugly Duckling
Veteran
Posts: 2,746
And1: 1,393
Joined: Jul 20, 2014
Location: The Windy
 

Pax's Worst Draft Day Decision 

Post#1 » by Ugly Duckling » Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:54 am

So now that Pax is essentially gone, I made a retrospective list of his biggest draft day blunders since taking over as GM in 2003. Goes without saying that hindsight is 20/20, especially in the draft, but some of these were pretty obvious to some of us in real time. Gar took over the GM role in 2009, but directly reported to Pax, so Pax was directly responsible for all their draft day moves. Which was the worst one and what grade would you give Pax when it comes to the draft?
mudsak wrote:Watching Kawhi plow through the playoffs like the most stoic gangster to walk the earth has been one of the most epic things I've watched in a while.
User avatar
ThreeMileAllan
Starter
Posts: 2,360
And1: 557
Joined: Feb 07, 2002
Location: San Diego via Chicago
       

Re: Pax's Worst Draft Day Decision 

Post#2 » by ThreeMileAllan » Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:00 am

Butler

Trading up for Doug.

Everything else.... I can at least defend (I can defend the above moves too but oh boy did I hate it at the time, still do).

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
On the Crawford/Rose bandwagon in 2002... 2009, 2011, 2012, 2017... :laugh: Finally in 2018! 16 year wait!
weneeda2guard
Head Coach
Posts: 7,071
And1: 2,794
Joined: Feb 07, 2011

Re: Pax's Worst Draft Day Decision 

Post#3 » by weneeda2guard » Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:15 am

Tyrus Thomas over LaMarcus Aldridge was huge. Especially when Aldridge began to blossom.

Teague over Draymond was really bad only because our head coach was campaigning for Draymond and garpax didn't listen.

The other options are what you can say about most teams unless they pick a sure fire like zion or lebron. Teams will always pick a guy and a star gets past a team. You can scout all you want you just never can factor in situations and how a player will develop once they get into the league

My vote was def for that doug McDermott trade. I always said that was a choice that should have cost someone their jobs and the dominos falling that followed was catastrophic. I can make a good case that we were forced to rebuild because of that move. not only did we send off 2 picks 1 of which was the highly coveted bobcats pick that I said we should have traded way back in 2011 for some wing help but nope people swore it was going to turn into gold for us and we would have a top 3 pick. Smh but we also sent off 3 2nd rd picks and ate a contract to get that Doug McDermott deal through. We passed on lavine. What did we get for all that? Literally nothing as Doug McDermott is the prime example of bust. What did we get in return? Cameron Payne, Joffrey Lauvergne and Anthony Morrow and having to send off a beloved Chicago favorite taj Gibson, oh and a 2nd rd pick.....again smh

Man that has to go down as a all time great garpax blunder.
"they taking rose kindness for a weakness"
dice
RealGM
Posts: 36,943
And1: 9,943
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Location: chicago

Re: Pax's Worst Draft Day Decision 

Post#4 » by dice » Fri Sep 11, 2020 2:41 am

i'm not gonna be too results-oriented, so i can forgive, for example, tyrus over LMA. that one was a swing for the fences that happened to end in a strikeout. but LMA has always been overrated, so...c'est la vie

the answer for me is teague:

1) we needed a 4th big (old man nazr held down that role) and draymond was on the board
2) had a potential contending team and took a developmental 3rd string point guard who was terrible in his single college season
3) teague ended up being one of the worst players to ever put on an nba uniform
check your voter registration status:

https://www.vote.org/
User avatar
Grodoboldo
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,657
And1: 1,088
Joined: Sep 26, 2010
Location: Sao Paulo
 

Re: Pax's Worst Draft Day Decision 

Post#5 » by Grodoboldo » Fri Sep 11, 2020 3:03 am

Pax didn't pick Seraphin. That pick was traded to the Wizards along Hinrich to open up capspace.
So it was the Wizards who selected Seraphin.
I don't know anything about college basketball. I would rather trade down/out. My Bulls big board for the 2020 Draft (as of September 4th):
1-Edwards; 2-Hayes; 3-Ball; 4-Avdija; 5-Haliburton; 6-Nesmith; 7-Vassel; 8-Okongwu; 9-Williams; 10-Pokusevski.
jumpman23j
Ballboy
Posts: 12
And1: 6
Joined: Jun 06, 2010

Re: Pax's Worst Draft Day Decision 

Post#6 » by jumpman23j » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:12 am

What about not drafting Michael Porter Jr? I know he had an injured back but I still would of gambled on him.
samwana
General Manager
Posts: 8,991
And1: 1,959
Joined: Jul 24, 2002
Location: Munich (Germany)
 

Re: Pax's Worst Draft Day Decision 

Post#7 » by samwana » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:14 am

Not trading up to get Wade was big too. That may actually be worst of all. Rookie GM mistake, but huge.

Sent from my POT-LX1 using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
ThreeMileAllan
Starter
Posts: 2,360
And1: 557
Joined: Feb 07, 2002
Location: San Diego via Chicago
       

Re: Pax's Worst Draft Day Decision 

Post#8 » by ThreeMileAllan » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:37 am

samwana wrote:Not trading up to get Wade was big too. That may actually be worst of all. Rookie GM mistake, but huge.

Sent from my POT-LX1 using RealGM mobile app
I thought that trade was going to happen but then Jay Will got in his accident. Woulda been him and the 7th pick to move up and select wade.

Damn Wade and JCraw would have been amazing.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
On the Crawford/Rose bandwagon in 2002... 2009, 2011, 2012, 2017... :laugh: Finally in 2018! 16 year wait!
User avatar
drosereturn
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,409
And1: 1,425
Joined: Oct 12, 2018

Re: Pax's Worst Draft Day Decision 

Post#9 » by drosereturn » Fri Sep 11, 2020 7:38 am

not getting lma, wade was equally big.
Lamelo will be a future superstar Bull. Book it. Lavar for president!
Hangtime84
RealGM
Posts: 18,691
And1: 3,518
Joined: Aug 18, 2006
Location: Rogers Park
     

Re: Pax's Worst Draft Day Decision 

Post#10 » by Hangtime84 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:21 am

Douggy McBuckets is the draft that ruined this all.
Jcool0 wrote:
aguifs wrote:Do we have a friggin plan?


If the Bulls do, you would be complaining to much to ever hear it.


NBA fan logic we need to trade one of two best players because (Player X) one needs to shine more.
User avatar
Little Nathan
Head Coach
Posts: 6,360
And1: 3,896
Joined: Mar 11, 2013
Location: Germany
   

Re: Pax's Worst Draft Day Decision 

Post#11 » by Little Nathan » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:25 am

jumpman23j wrote:What about not drafting Michael Porter Jr? I know he had an injured back but I still would of gambled on him.

We may end up regretting that eventually, sure, but no way he's the worst. His injury history was and still is a serious concern.
"Heart is a skill that player who shoot 3s might not have." - Chris Webber, actually getting paid for this
d boy gentleman
Starter
Posts: 2,247
And1: 583
Joined: Jun 02, 2009
     

Re: Pax's Worst Draft Day Decision 

Post#12 » by d boy gentleman » Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:49 am

Little Nathan wrote:
jumpman23j wrote:What about not drafting Michael Porter Jr? I know he had an injured back but I still would of gambled on him.

We may end up regretting that eventually, sure, but no way he's the worst. His injury history was and still is a serious concern.


This
MAQ wrote:Boozer, you're ballin, but quit **** celebrating, negro there is 3 minutes left.

slowmotion5587 wrote:Nazr Mohammed might be the most underrated dunk misser I've ever seen.
League Circles
RealGM
Posts: 30,714
And1: 7,907
Joined: Dec 04, 2001
       

Re: Pax's Worst Draft Day Decision 

Post#13 » by League Circles » Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:52 am

I think probably the Butler trade. He traded a true two way star in his prime with multiple years left on his contract for zero high level assets/prospects.
https://august-shop.com/ streetwear & sneakers
User avatar
dougthonus
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 47,410
And1: 7,462
Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Contact:

Re: Pax's Worst Draft Day Decision 

Post#14 » by dougthonus » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:50 am

If a guy isn't within 2-3 picks of the guy taken, then its silly to call it a blunder. It's an unrealistic expectation and just opportunistic bashing that you could literally apply to any GM that's made more then 3-4 picks. That eliminates more than half this list. We can go through that same mental gymnastics and ask why the Warriors made such a huge blunder taking Festus Ezeeli over Draymond Green.

Of the things left, I voted McDermott trade, but taking it back, I'll say Aldridge trade. We forget how bad it was, because has we actually gotten Aldridge we probably wouldn't have ended up with Derrick Rose, but that's probably the biggest value swing. The Butler trade got us more value than Butler received in trade either of the next two times he was traded, so it doesn't look like there was likely to be a better offer in the future, so the decision to move on may or may not have been good, but the trade value wasn't bad relative to what the Wolves/76ers got.

Jrue Holiday is a reasonable comparison to James Johnson since he was the next pick. I was super high on Johnson, and with Rose, PG wasn't really a big concern, but man that would have been nice in retrospect. If you had Holiday filling in with Rose hurt this team could have really made some hey for a couple years and had a reasonable post Rose rebuild plan around Butler.
User avatar
Little Nathan
Head Coach
Posts: 6,360
And1: 3,896
Joined: Mar 11, 2013
Location: Germany
   

Re: Pax's Worst Draft Day Decision 

Post#15 » by Little Nathan » Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:06 pm

I think for the biggest mistake it's close between the Butler and the McDermott trade, but I would probably go with Butler. Looked bad at the time, aged terribly. Picking Valentine is another one that will always make me mad. Never saw the upside there, it was just a terrible attempt to make a safe pick. Teague was also terrible.
"Heart is a skill that player who shoot 3s might not have." - Chris Webber, actually getting paid for this
User avatar
Little Nathan
Head Coach
Posts: 6,360
And1: 3,896
Joined: Mar 11, 2013
Location: Germany
   

Re: Pax's Worst Draft Day Decision 

Post#16 » by Little Nathan » Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:15 pm

dougthonus wrote:The Butler trade got us more value than Butler received in trade either of the next two times he was traded, so it doesn't look like there was likely to be a better offer in the future, so the decision to move on may or may not have been good, but the trade value wasn't bad relative to what the Wolves/76ers got.


The Wolves had to trade him and everybody knew it. That always makes things way more complicated, so it's not really a fair comparison since the Bulls just decided to deal him although he showed no signs of wanting out.

The Sixers situation is also different because they decided to let him go (to keep Harris and sign Horford instead, yikes) and got value via a sign and trade, but you always get less value then in a "normal" trade. That's like saying the Warriors traded Durant for Russell, when really Durant leaving was going to happen anyway and the Warriors just got at least some value back.
"Heart is a skill that player who shoot 3s might not have." - Chris Webber, actually getting paid for this
User avatar
dougthonus
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 47,410
And1: 7,462
Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Contact:

Re: Pax's Worst Draft Day Decision 

Post#17 » by dougthonus » Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:15 pm

Little Nathan wrote:The Wolves had to trade him and everybody knew it. That always makes things way more complicated, so it's not really a fair comparison since the Bulls just decided to deal him although he showed no signs of wanting out.


So your opinion is that Team X said: "Well the Wolves have to trade him, so I don't want him enough to beat the 76ers offer, but if he were traded out of no where, then I would offer more"?

The "have to trade him" reduces value only in the scenario where the player has limited the destinations which Jimmy didn't appear to do. Also, it's pretty obvious that the Bulls weren't forced to trade Jimmy, but fans here were talking about it. It wasn't completely out of no where, and the Bulls obviously canvased the league for trades and took the offer they felt was best.

What is interesting is the Celtics wouldn't give up their quality picks for Jimmy, and boy would they be a title favorite if they had done so. Ironically, they might be the biggest loser of the Jimmy Butler sweepstakes, as it may have reasonably cost them a title.

The Sixers situation is also different because they decided to let him go (to keep Harris and sign Horford instead, yikes) and got value via a sign and trade, but you always get less value then in a "normal" trade. That's like saying the Warriors traded Durant for Russell, when really Durant leaving was going to happen anyway and the Warriors just got at least some value back.


They decided to let him go because Jimmy didn't want to stay. He may not have wanted to stay here in two years of rebuilding, and also demanded out and also left us in this same situation.

Yes, there are circumstances around both future Jimmy trades that limited his value, but those same circumstances would have likely also been here. In 2018 summer when the Bulls had no talent and were one of the worst teams in the league, why do you think Jimmy doesn't demand out, just like he did with the Wolves? In 2019, when we're still one of the worst teams in the league, what makes you think he doesn't demand a S&T when he did so on one of the top 10 teams in the league? Both of those are _extremely_ reasonable constraints to expect to have been placed on us making a trade at those times too if we were to make one.

This isn't to say the Bulls nailed the Jimmy Butler situation by any means, but I do not think they would have found better trade value later. I would have been all for keeping Butler, telling him we're going to be awful this next year and will clear out our cap, and then hope he can recruit a star player the following year (not that he's shown ability in that area). I was advocating for a plan of emptying out the cap in 2016 to basically start with Jimmy Butler and an empty slate as the cap exploded and have the ability to build a Miami like team by offering two other guys max deals.
User avatar
TheFinishSniper
Analyst
Posts: 3,028
And1: 2,394
Joined: Feb 02, 2018
Location: Earth
   

Re: Pax's Worst Draft Day Decision 

Post#18 » by TheFinishSniper » Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:17 pm

Everything bad in this franchise lead with drafting Dougie.
“If you were grading rebuilds and dropped in on the United Center on Wednesday night, you saw one team flying up the court, launching 3-pointers, sharing the ball and generally looking like it was having a lot of fun. And then you saw the Bulls.”
MGB8
RealGM
Posts: 15,460
And1: 1,565
Joined: Jul 20, 2001
Location: Philly

Re: Pax's Worst Draft Day Decision 

Post#19 » by MGB8 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:42 pm

Wow. That's rough.

I voted for Tyrus over Aldridge because the Bulls had a nice core and Aldridge would have been perfect, and he didn't have low upside (as shown by his subsequent all-pro career). Reaching for an athlete who was the 2nd best big on his team (behind big Baby) and wanted to be a SF rather than a PF despite lacking SF skills...

At the same time, had the Bulls drafted Aldridge, probably no Derrick Rose... so - a fail that worked out, by accident.

The biggest two fails that didn't work out were:

(1) the trade for Doug McDermott which was idiotic at the time (and maybe Thibs was pushing for it, maybe he wasn't) - a very deep draft through the early 20s and you trade two picks for a guy whose has questions about whether his athleticism is good enough for the NBA.... AND (obviously, and relatedly)

(2) the Jimmy Butler trade, where you never actually made a real effort to have team that would fit around him - rather than non-fitting (and not-good-shooting) names like Rondo and Wade, actually creating spacing with the players around him (and not just the "stretch 4"), to include another strong (but not ball-dominant) handler/creator.
ATRAIN53
Head Coach
Posts: 6,207
And1: 1,726
Joined: Dec 14, 2007
Location: Chicago

Re: Pax's Worst Draft Day Decision 

Post#20 » by ATRAIN53 » Fri Sep 11, 2020 1:49 pm

wow that list kinda proves he sucks at drafting - where all these years people have been praising them for drafting.

you can't blame him or predict who develops
it''s a crap shoot for almost everyone.

but the Tyrus Thomas thing is clearly his biggest mistake.

Kyle Lowry was 24th in that draft - and he's probably the only HOF from that class.

Rondo was 21st in that same draft and Playoff Rondo is a HOF guy too. (not regular season Rondo. I dunno how they induct on;y playoff Rondo but they have to figure out a way...)

But LMA was a no brainer #2 pick. Everyone was like Chicago finally gets a big man. I mean thay had to have had his jersey there, this pick was so obvious and they mucked it up.

He's STILL putting up 20 PPG
He doesn't take it to the rack like he should, but he would probably still be here putting up 20/10 and a fan favorite.

Meanwhile Tyrus Thomas last NBA bucket was 5 years ago.

Return to Chicago Bulls