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OT Bears 2019/20 season

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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1721 » by fleet » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:49 am

CBS7 wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
CBS7 wrote:Most of the problems start and end with the OL. Its gotta be one of the worst in the league.

Defense is good but not elite, but I'd imagine they'd look a lot better with a competent offense.


They may start with the OL, but they don't end there. Montgomery is awful even with a good line. He'd be better with a good line, but he's not explosive to the hole and isn't elusive. Foles/Trubisky were two of the bottom QBs in the NFL last year in QBR. Both would be better with a good line, but neither would be good.


I may have imagined it, but I feel like I remember reading that monty ranks very highly in yards after contact. He just consistently gets hit in the backfield.

At times it almost looks like he seeks out contact rather than bursting toward green grass. Thats how he does, bounces off tacklers and falls forward. He takes a lot of hits because he doesn't have the burst and speed to bounce outside the tackles. He will not be one of those old backs hanging around.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1722 » by dice » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:54 am

ATRAIN53 wrote:What a waste of a great defense this season is.....again

It's just like the Cutler years when we had Tillman, Briggs and Urlacher and just need the offense to not suck!

I wish we had signed Philip Rivers, he's not dong too bad in Indy.
They have a great defense like us.

when you invest heavily in the defense, you can expect the offense to suck unless you've got offensive players well outproducing their rookie contracts. nfl econ 101
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1723 » by MoSalad » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:00 pm

There was a play that preceded a FG where Minny blitzed and every player was in man with no help and every player was open. And Foles threw it to no one.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1724 » by dougthonus » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:52 pm

thedarkstark wrote:These are Nagy's guys, these guys are who he wanted, his scheme sucks, he's an awful coach.[

Pace got rid of a player he drafted, Jordan Howard 1 year removed from a 1,100 yard season because he didn't fit "the scheme" Nagy wanted a running back who could run all of his stupid gadget plays with. He brought in Nick Foles, Tyler Bray, Chase Daniel, Taylor Gabriel, David Montgomery, Trey Burton, Cordarelle Patterson because those were the guys Nagy asked for.

I'm not absolving Pace of any blame, he deserves an equal amount because again he hired Nagy and sat on his hands about the O-line, but you're crazy if you can't see this is EXACTLY the offense Nagy has wanted to run from day one, it just isn't good.


No idea whether this is Nagy or Pace or both in concert, but the talent is a big part of the problem. Nagy's scheme and style may also be a big part of the problem, but with the talent so low, I don't see how anyone could tell.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1725 » by Susan » Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:23 pm

dougthonus wrote:
thedarkstark wrote:These are Nagy's guys, these guys are who he wanted, his scheme sucks, he's an awful coach.[

Pace got rid of a player he drafted, Jordan Howard 1 year removed from a 1,100 yard season because he didn't fit "the scheme" Nagy wanted a running back who could run all of his stupid gadget plays with. He brought in Nick Foles, Tyler Bray, Chase Daniel, Taylor Gabriel, David Montgomery, Trey Burton, Cordarelle Patterson because those were the guys Nagy asked for.

I'm not absolving Pace of any blame, he deserves an equal amount because again he hired Nagy and sat on his hands about the O-line, but you're crazy if you can't see this is EXACTLY the offense Nagy has wanted to run from day one, it just isn't good.


No idea whether this is Nagy or Pace or both in concert, but the talent is a big part of the problem. Nagy's scheme and style may also be a big part of the problem, but with the talent so low, I don't see how anyone could tell.


Pace has done a really good job of adding talent to the defensive side of the ball, this is unquestioned, no?

He's drafted/added the following:
ARob
Taylor Gabriel
Miller
Mooney
Kevin White
Burton
Jimmy G
Shaheen
Choen
Howard
Montgomery
Mike Davis
Trubisky
Foles
Glennon

RBs
Howard showed to be a productive player before Nagy.
Cohen already flashed as a rookie, did great in year 2 then regressed production wise in year three.
Montgomery has been hit repeatedly in the backfield, nobody truly knows what he is
Mike Davis was nothing here but a servicable player in Carolina after us and in Seattle before us

TEs
Shaheen was constantly injured but also thrown to the wayside by Nagy, Miami gave him a contract extension
Burton was cast aside and let go for nothing, he's proving to be a serviceable player for the Colts this season
Jimmy is proving to be a good red zone threat
Kmet has shown flashes but they haven't used him nearly enough

WRs
Arob is a franchise WR when healthy
Gabriel was serviceable
Mooney is a talent and an absolute steal in the 5th
Anthony Miller is inconsistent but was highly regarded coming out of college and has shown flashes
Kevin White just got destroyed by injuries
CPat has been a great KR for us and an overused gadget player

QB
Trubisky showed flashes as a rookie, continued to grow in his second year and just fell off the face of the map following that
Foles "understood the system" and after scapegoating Trubisky we were sold that the offense would become alive under Foles, the opposite has happened
Glennon sucked and they only invested a year in him, whatever.

There's ZERO instances of Nagy building a player up IMO. He's had a very bad habit of trying to get players to play to "his system" rather than making his system play to his players strength. Scapegoating Mitch, basically discarding Howard, watching Cohen regress, not figuring out how to use Mike Davis, doghousing Shaheen and Burton and not scheming a single effective running attack in his three years here are all bad.

Dude seems to need HOF level players for his system to work. He's been bad at maximizing the talent that has given to him and has overstated his own genius.

Mitch is coming back, he's got more talent in him than Foles, hopefully Lazer can build the offense around Mitch's talent instead of trying to force Mitch to be something he's not right now. Ideal world: Mitch shows out, Bears go on a run, we franchise tag Mitch in the offseason and fire Nagy. More likely: Bears suck, Nagy gets fired, Mitch sucks and walks in the offseason and Pace is probably gone as well.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1726 » by Posey H8er » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:05 pm

Susan wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
thedarkstark wrote:These are Nagy's guys, these guys are who he wanted, his scheme sucks, he's an awful coach.[

Pace got rid of a player he drafted, Jordan Howard 1 year removed from a 1,100 yard season because he didn't fit "the scheme" Nagy wanted a running back who could run all of his stupid gadget plays with. He brought in Nick Foles, Tyler Bray, Chase Daniel, Taylor Gabriel, David Montgomery, Trey Burton, Cordarelle Patterson because those were the guys Nagy asked for.

I'm not absolving Pace of any blame, he deserves an equal amount because again he hired Nagy and sat on his hands about the O-line, but you're crazy if you can't see this is EXACTLY the offense Nagy has wanted to run from day one, it just isn't good.


No idea whether this is Nagy or Pace or both in concert, but the talent is a big part of the problem. Nagy's scheme and style may also be a big part of the problem, but with the talent so low, I don't see how anyone could tell.


Pace has done a really good job of adding talent to the defensive side of the ball, this is unquestioned, no?

He's drafted/added the following:
ARob
Taylor Gabriel
Miller
Mooney
Kevin White
Burton
Jimmy G
Shaheen
Choen
Howard
Montgomery
Mike Davis
Trubisky
Foles
Glennon

RBs
Howard showed to be a productive player before Nagy.
Cohen already flashed as a rookie, did great in year 2 then regressed production wise in year three.
Montgomery has been hit repeatedly in the backfield, nobody truly knows what he is
Mike Davis was nothing here but a servicable player in Carolina after us and in Seattle before us

TEs
Shaheen was constantly injured but also thrown to the wayside by Nagy, Miami gave him a contract extension
Burton was cast aside and let go for nothing, he's proving to be a serviceable player for the Colts this season
Jimmy is proving to be a good red zone threat
Kmet has shown flashes but they haven't used him nearly enough

WRs
Arob is a franchise WR when healthy
Gabriel was serviceable
Mooney is a talent and an absolute steal in the 5th
Anthony Miller is inconsistent but was highly regarded coming out of college and has shown flashes
Kevin White just got destroyed by injuries
CPat has been a great KR for us and an overused gadget player

QB
Trubisky showed flashes as a rookie, continued to grow in his second year and just fell off the face of the map following that
Foles "understood the system" and after scapegoating Trubisky we were sold that the offense would become alive under Foles, the opposite has happened
Glennon sucked and they only invested a year in him, whatever.

There's ZERO instances of Nagy building a player up IMO. He's had a very bad habit of trying to get players to play to "his system" rather than making his system play to his players strength. Scapegoating Mitch, basically discarding Howard, watching Cohen regress, not figuring out how to use Mike Davis, doghousing Shaheen and Burton and not scheming a single effective running attack in his three years here are all bad.

Dude seems to need HOF level players for his system to work. He's been bad at maximizing the talent that has given to him and has overstated his own genius.

Mitch is coming back, he's got more talent in him than Foles, hopefully Lazer can build the offense around Mitch's talent instead of trying to force Mitch to be something he's not right now. Ideal world: Mitch shows out, Bears go on a run, we franchise tag Mitch in the offseason and fire Nagy. More likely: Bears suck, Nagy gets fired, Mitch sucks and walks in the offseason and Pace is probably gone as well.

I think this downplays just how bad some of these moves on the offensive are. Nagy deserves blame for failing to utilize and develop the pieces he has to build some sort of competency. But Pace has been horrendous at developing the offensive side. Having a few unexpected hits does not negate the awful misses.

Mitch has elusive tendencies to make plays out of the pocket or run for first downs. But he cannot read defenses well at all and locks in on receivers and does not make accurate NFL throws. That's not fully a coaching developmental deficiency because even Nagy's system favors his strengths. Some guys just aren't good at it and never get there. That's most college quarterbacks. The college QBs who succeed at it play at the next level. Pace gambled thinking Trubisky could and here the Bears are. Pace deserves full criticism for valuing Mitch over Mahomes and Watson.

Glennon cannot be excused because it was a short-term deal because he was abysmally bad. Foles was viewed as a low risk product because his baseline value is a competent NFL QB who can make basic NFL throws with protection. He has been far worse than that baseline and part of that seems like regression and part of it seems like an incompetent offense that cannot block or run the ball.

Montgomery was solid value for the 3rd round but is not at all the kind of running back that will succeed in Nagy's system. Nagy needs an elusive running back that has the speed to work well in space. To that end Cohen is a good fit but the Bears prefer running a 5'-7" RB between the tackles. Montgomery would do very well in more traditional style offense with blocking schemes that fit his strengths like what Iowa State ran.

Kmet has not played much but he has not shown anything remarkable in the blocking or passing game besides two nice catches against Carolina and LA. Kmet's value was marginally more valuable than other TEs in the 2020 draft class so Pace reached to select him (likely because TEs have been a glaring hole). Shaheen was a cutesy FCS pick that again was a reach even though he had talent. Pace never looked into Kittle that year either. I honestly don't know if Pace understands the position.

But really the biggest issue with Pace has been lack of adequately investing into the OL. Whitehair and Daniels were two early round picks that worked out so I trust him more in evaluating college linemen but OL has still been a weakness for a number of years now. Pace has eluded the group the past two drafts and that is the biggest reason why the Bears offense is awful. It still would be bad offense if it had a decent line, but now it's like salt on open wounds with this offense.

In summary yeah Pace has made some good moves, but the bad ones have been really bad which have forced the Bears to address them again, limiting investment in other areas of need.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1727 » by dougthonus » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:14 pm

Susan wrote:Pace has done a really good job of adding talent to the defensive side of the ball, this is unquestioned, no?


Sure.

RBs
Howard showed to be a productive player before Nagy.
Cohen already flashed as a rookie, did great in year 2 then regressed production wise in year three.
Montgomery has been hit repeatedly in the backfield, nobody truly knows what he is
Mike Davis was nothing here but a servicable player in Carolina after us and in Seattle before us

TEs
Shaheen was constantly injured but also thrown to the wayside by Nagy, Miami gave him a contract extension
Burton was cast aside and let go for nothing, he's proving to be a serviceable player for the Colts this season
Jimmy is proving to be a good red zone threat
Kmet has shown flashes but they haven't used him nearly enough

WRs
Arob is a franchise WR when healthy
Gabriel was serviceable
Mooney is a talent and an absolute steal in the 5th
Anthony Miller is inconsistent but was highly regarded coming out of college and has shown flashes
Kevin White just got destroyed by injuries
CPat has been a great KR for us and an overused gadget player

QB
Trubisky showed flashes as a rookie, continued to grow in his second year and just fell off the face of the map following that
Foles "understood the system" and after scapegoating Trubisky we were sold that the offense would become alive under Foles, the opposite has happened
Glennon sucked and they only invested a year in him, whatever.

There's ZERO instances of Nagy building a player up IMO. He's had a very bad habit of trying to get players to play to "his system" rather than making his system play to his players strength. Scapegoating Mitch, basically discarding Howard, watching Cohen regress, not figuring out how to use Mike Davis, doghousing Shaheen and Burton and not scheming a single effective running attack in his three years here are all bad.

Dude seems to need HOF level players for his system to work. He's been bad at maximizing the talent that has given to him and has overstated his own genius.

Mitch is coming back, he's got more talent in him than Foles, hopefully Lazer can build the offense around Mitch's talent instead of trying to force Mitch to be something he's not right now. Ideal world: Mitch shows out, Bears go on a run, we franchise tag Mitch in the offseason and fire Nagy. More likely: Bears suck, Nagy gets fired, Mitch sucks and walks in the offseason and Pace is probably gone as well.


:dontknow:

You want to pin it all on Nagy, feel free. I think it's overly optimistic to say that yeah, this talent is good / average, but Nagy just drove them all into the ground. I think their QB, be it Mitch/Foles, is basically bottom tier of the league, I think their RBs (regardless of which of those guys you name) are near bottom of the league, their offensive line is near bottom of the league, and I'll say maybe their WRs/TEs are middle of the league.

Compared to my opinion in preseason, I had no real view of the offensive line (now think it is really bad) and thought their WRs were pretty poor but think they are better than I gave them credit for at the beginning of the season. Either way, the net result is I think their talent on the offensive side of the ball sucks.

I don't think Bill Belichick would get anything out of this offense with the guys that they have to put on the field. Does that mean Nagy is great? No. He may have had significant say in this talent and may have made his own bed. I don't follow the Bears front office decision making like I do the Bulls to know.

In the end, the Bears probably are a few key misses away from being something right now. If they hit on a couple offensive linemen somewhere and had a solid line and if Trubisky had developed into the 10th-12th best QB in the NFL instead of a guy likely destined to be a backup, then the Bears might be right there able to do something. Sadly, that's not what happened. Instead, we went short term too many times with draft assets with Mack/Trubisky/Foles trading to do short term things and giving up the types of assets that would have given the Bears more opportunities to hit on these misses.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1728 » by Susan » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:24 pm

Posey H8er wrote:
Susan wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
No idea whether this is Nagy or Pace or both in concert, but the talent is a big part of the problem. Nagy's scheme and style may also be a big part of the problem, but with the talent so low, I don't see how anyone could tell.


Pace has done a really good job of adding talent to the defensive side of the ball, this is unquestioned, no?

He's drafted/added the following:
ARob
Taylor Gabriel
Miller
Mooney
Kevin White
Burton
Jimmy G
Shaheen
Choen
Howard
Montgomery
Mike Davis
Trubisky
Foles
Glennon

RBs
Howard showed to be a productive player before Nagy.
Cohen already flashed as a rookie, did great in year 2 then regressed production wise in year three.
Montgomery has been hit repeatedly in the backfield, nobody truly knows what he is
Mike Davis was nothing here but a servicable player in Carolina after us and in Seattle before us

TEs
Shaheen was constantly injured but also thrown to the wayside by Nagy, Miami gave him a contract extension
Burton was cast aside and let go for nothing, he's proving to be a serviceable player for the Colts this season
Jimmy is proving to be a good red zone threat
Kmet has shown flashes but they haven't used him nearly enough

WRs
Arob is a franchise WR when healthy
Gabriel was serviceable
Mooney is a talent and an absolute steal in the 5th
Anthony Miller is inconsistent but was highly regarded coming out of college and has shown flashes
Kevin White just got destroyed by injuries
CPat has been a great KR for us and an overused gadget player

QB
Trubisky showed flashes as a rookie, continued to grow in his second year and just fell off the face of the map following that
Foles "understood the system" and after scapegoating Trubisky we were sold that the offense would become alive under Foles, the opposite has happened
Glennon sucked and they only invested a year in him, whatever.

There's ZERO instances of Nagy building a player up IMO. He's had a very bad habit of trying to get players to play to "his system" rather than making his system play to his players strength. Scapegoating Mitch, basically discarding Howard, watching Cohen regress, not figuring out how to use Mike Davis, doghousing Shaheen and Burton and not scheming a single effective running attack in his three years here are all bad.

Dude seems to need HOF level players for his system to work. He's been bad at maximizing the talent that has given to him and has overstated his own genius.

Mitch is coming back, he's got more talent in him than Foles, hopefully Lazer can build the offense around Mitch's talent instead of trying to force Mitch to be something he's not right now. Ideal world: Mitch shows out, Bears go on a run, we franchise tag Mitch in the offseason and fire Nagy. More likely: Bears suck, Nagy gets fired, Mitch sucks and walks in the offseason and Pace is probably gone as well.

I think this downplays just how bad some of these moves on the offensive are. Nagy deserves blame for failing to utilize and develop the pieces he has to build some sort of competency. But Pace has been horrendous at developing the offensive side. Having a few unexpected hits does not negate the awful misses.

Mitch has elusive tendencies to make plays out of the pocket or run for first downs. But he cannot read defenses well at all and locks in on receivers and does not make accurate NFL throws. That's not fully a coaching developmental deficiency because even Nagy's system favors his strengths. Some guys just aren't good at it and never get there. That's most college quarterbacks. The college QBs who succeed at it play at the next level. Pace gambled thinking Trubisky could and here the Bears are. Pace deserves full criticism for valuing Mitch over Mahomes and Watson.

Glennon cannot be excused because it was a short-term deal because he was abysmally bad. Foles was viewed as a low risk product because his baseline value is a competent NFL QB who can make basic NFL throws with protection. He has been far worse than that baseline and part of that seems like regression and part of it seems like an incompetent offense that cannot block or run the ball.

Montgomery was solid value for the 3rd round but is not at all the kind of running back that will succeed in Nagy's system. Nagy needs an elusive running back that has the speed to work well in space. To that end Cohen is a good fit but the Bears prefer running a 5'-7" RB between the tackles. Montgomery would do very well in more traditional style offense with blocking schemes that fit his strengths like what Iowa State ran.

Kmet has not played much but he has not shown anything remarkable in the blocking or passing game besides two nice catches against Carolina and LA. Kmet's value was marginally more valuable than other TEs in the 2020 draft class so Pace reached to select him (likely because TEs have been a glaring hole). Shaheen was a cutesy FCS pick that again was a reach even though he had talent. Pace never looked into Kittle that year either. I honestly don't know if Pace understands the position.

But really the biggest issue with Pace has been lack of adequately investing into the OL. Whitehair and Daniels were two early round picks that worked out so I trust him more in evaluating college linemen but OL has still been a weakness for a number of years now. Pace has eluded the group the past two drafts and that is the biggest reason why the Bears offense is awful. It still would be bad offense if it had a decent line, but now it's like salt on open wounds with this offense.

In summary yeah Pace has made some good moves, but the bad ones have been really bad which have forced the Bears to address them again, limiting investment in other areas of need.


Glennon was a low risk gamble that backfired but it didn't set the franchise back because there was no guaranteed money long term. Think Matt Flynn when they drafted Russ.

And there's no doubt that Pace whiffed on Mahomes/Watson, but that doesn't mean that Nagy could have also done an absolute **** job of developing Mitch.

Basically before Nagy, Pace brought in the following from the offensive side of the ball:
Howard (5th rounder) - was a stud for two years, got worse under Nagy
Cohen - (4th rounder) - pro bowler, regressed badly last year under Nagy
Mitch - (1st rounder) - regressed last year under Nagy, got benched and the offense got worse without him
Shaheen - (2nd rounder) - Bust (talent and injuries)
Cam Meredeth (UDFA) - Good player, destroyed his knee/career after leaving but great find
Kevin White - (1st rounder) injury bust

Who has Nagy developed on the offensive side of the ball? I've seen multiple players regress, I've seen multiple talented players be cast aside because they don't fit the system. He's made multiple players worse by not figuring out a way to play to their strengths. The opposite is true of the other side of the ball (which he has little to nothing to do with).
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1729 » by CjayC » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:26 pm

Team has reached its ceiling as long as they have keep trotting out the offensive line with 3-4 backup caliber players starting. Wouldn't shock me if they didn't win another game.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1730 » by Susan » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:30 pm

Considering our previous OC was Adam Gase/his boy Dowell Loggains and we're seeing a regression from that era despite an upgrade in talent, I'm 100% confident in saying Nagy is a fraud.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1731 » by fleet » Wed Nov 18, 2020 11:37 pm

Riddick? I haven't located the original source of this rumor yet, and cannot tell if it is just a blogger rambling to fill space.

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-bears-rumors/chicago-bears-may-have-a-ryan-pace-successor-in-mind-already/
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1732 » by thedarkstark » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:17 am

fleet wrote:Riddick? I haven't located the original source of this rumor yet, and cannot tell if it is just a blogger rambling to fill space.

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-bears-rumors/chicago-bears-may-have-a-ryan-pace-successor-in-mind-already/


Riddick seems like a smart guy, initial reaction is I like it but why did he leave the executive stuff behind to pursue broadcasting? What do his peers say about him? What's his philosophy?

If there's any truth behind this rumor it at least means they're considering moving on from Pace which is definitely a good thing.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1733 » by fleet » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:10 am

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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1734 » by fleet » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:32 pm

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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1735 » by IliketheBullsNBearstoo » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:40 pm

fleet wrote:
Read on Twitter


That is after going in at half time and both teams being able to make any necessary adjustments to things they saw out there in the first half. What is that telling you? I know what it tells me.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1736 » by nitetrain8603 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:03 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Susan wrote:Pace has done a really good job of adding talent to the defensive side of the ball, this is unquestioned, no?


Sure.

RBs
Howard showed to be a productive player before Nagy.
Cohen already flashed as a rookie, did great in year 2 then regressed production wise in year three.
Montgomery has been hit repeatedly in the backfield, nobody truly knows what he is
Mike Davis was nothing here but a servicable player in Carolina after us and in Seattle before us

TEs
Shaheen was constantly injured but also thrown to the wayside by Nagy, Miami gave him a contract extension
Burton was cast aside and let go for nothing, he's proving to be a serviceable player for the Colts this season
Jimmy is proving to be a good red zone threat
Kmet has shown flashes but they haven't used him nearly enough

WRs
Arob is a franchise WR when healthy
Gabriel was serviceable
Mooney is a talent and an absolute steal in the 5th
Anthony Miller is inconsistent but was highly regarded coming out of college and has shown flashes
Kevin White just got destroyed by injuries
CPat has been a great KR for us and an overused gadget player

QB
Trubisky showed flashes as a rookie, continued to grow in his second year and just fell off the face of the map following that
Foles "understood the system" and after scapegoating Trubisky we were sold that the offense would become alive under Foles, the opposite has happened
Glennon sucked and they only invested a year in him, whatever.

There's ZERO instances of Nagy building a player up IMO. He's had a very bad habit of trying to get players to play to "his system" rather than making his system play to his players strength. Scapegoating Mitch, basically discarding Howard, watching Cohen regress, not figuring out how to use Mike Davis, doghousing Shaheen and Burton and not scheming a single effective running attack in his three years here are all bad.

Dude seems to need HOF level players for his system to work. He's been bad at maximizing the talent that has given to him and has overstated his own genius.

Mitch is coming back, he's got more talent in him than Foles, hopefully Lazer can build the offense around Mitch's talent instead of trying to force Mitch to be something he's not right now. Ideal world: Mitch shows out, Bears go on a run, we franchise tag Mitch in the offseason and fire Nagy. More likely: Bears suck, Nagy gets fired, Mitch sucks and walks in the offseason and Pace is probably gone as well.


:dontknow:

You want to pin it all on Nagy, feel free. I think it's overly optimistic to say that yeah, this talent is good / average, but Nagy just drove them all into the ground. I think their QB, be it Mitch/Foles, is basically bottom tier of the league, I think their RBs (regardless of which of those guys you name) are near bottom of the league, their offensive line is near bottom of the league, and I'll say maybe their WRs/TEs are middle of the league.

Compared to my opinion in preseason, I had no real view of the offensive line (now think it is really bad) and thought their WRs were pretty poor but think they are better than I gave them credit for at the beginning of the season. Either way, the net result is I think their talent on the offensive side of the ball sucks.

I don't think Bill Belichick would get anything out of this offense with the guys that they have to put on the field. Does that mean Nagy is great? No. He may have had significant say in this talent and may have made his own bed. I don't follow the Bears front office decision making like I do the Bulls to know.

In the end, the Bears probably are a few key misses away from being something right now. If they hit on a couple offensive linemen somewhere and had a solid line and if Trubisky had developed into the 10th-12th best QB in the NFL instead of a guy likely destined to be a backup, then the Bears might be right there able to do something. Sadly, that's not what happened. Instead, we went short term too many times with draft assets with Mack/Trubisky/Foles trading to do short term things and giving up the types of assets that would have given the Bears more opportunities to hit on these misses.


As an outsider, this is my view of the Bears. Nagy may be an awful coach offensively. I can't judge that with the lack of talent on that side of the ball. As far as Bill B, he always has ensured his OL was taken care of when Brady as around.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1737 » by nitetrain8603 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:04 pm

Susan wrote:Considering our previous OC was Adam Gase/his boy Dowell Loggains and we're seeing a regression from that era despite an upgrade in talent, I'm 100% confident in saying Nagy is a fraud.


Who is the upgrade?
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1738 » by IliketheBullsNBearstoo » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:17 pm

Nagy is regressing. The league is onto his game plan already. It was cute at first but the league has figured it out fast.

Would I be willing to give him another chance with better offensive talent? I would I suppose. But its hard to defend him as the head coach. This team just doesn't look like a well coached team as a whole. Getting out-coached week in and week out. Even when we won it wasn't pretty. I'm not putting all the blame on him but he definitely has earned his share of it.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1739 » by Susan » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:43 pm

nitetrain8603 wrote:
Susan wrote:Considering our previous OC was Adam Gase/his boy Dowell Loggains and we're seeing a regression from that era despite an upgrade in talent, I'm 100% confident in saying Nagy is a fraud.


Who is the upgrade?


uhh, look at that WR core.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi/2017.htm

Robinson is a legit high end WR1, Miller and Mooney are talented passcatchers - (Miller's had flashes, 7TDs in his rookie year, came on strong last half of last season).

Kendell Wright, Josh Bellamy and Dontrelle Inman wouldn't play a snap on this team.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1740 » by dice » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:19 pm

Susan wrote:
nitetrain8603 wrote:
Susan wrote:Considering our previous OC was Adam Gase/his boy Dowell Loggains and we're seeing a regression from that era despite an upgrade in talent, I'm 100% confident in saying Nagy is a fraud.


Who is the upgrade?


uhh, look at that WR core.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi/2017.htm

Robinson is a legit high end WR1, Miller and Mooney are talented passcatchers - (Miller's had flashes, 7TDs in his rookie year, came on strong last half of last season).

Kendell Wright, Josh Bellamy and Dontrelle Inman wouldn't play a snap on this team.

an average at best WR core has been the best part of the offense

in the 2017 season PFF ranked the bears O-line performance at #11. position player talent loses its luster quickly when the line can't protect the QB or open holes for RBs. i'm no nagy fan, but a new coach isn't going to turn things around with play calling and schemes alone
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