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OT Bears 2019/20 season

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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1701 » by Dresden » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:05 am

johnnyvann840 wrote:
Dresden wrote:
johnnyvann840 wrote:
It was a joke. Bobby Douglass did that in 1972. I was saying that back in those days that was pretty remarkable. Back then there weren't very many running backs even rushing for 1000 yards. It was a pretty major accomplishment. There were a handful of guys but not like today. I can remember Douglass pretty well even though I was really young at the time. He was a lefty and he had an arm like a rifle but had no touch.. he would just throw the hardest passes every time at guys. Most of the time he would just take off running.


I remember him, too. DIdn't he throw a pass 80 yards, into the wind, with a broken wrist once?


I don't remember that but I remember he could really throw the ball hard and with a perfect spiral. But he was awful as a QB. Nobody could hold on to his passes because he had no touch. Receiver would be 8 yards away and he would just rip it at him like he was throwing it 75 yards downfield but on a rope. But man could he run with it.

In 1972, OJ Simpson led the NFL in rushing with 1251 yards with 292 carries. Bobby Douglass was a QB and had 968 yards in just 141 carries averaging 6.9 yards per attempt.


Those were really bleak days- after Butkus and Sayers, before Walter Payton. Abe Gibron, Jim Dooley, Jack Concannon, Bobby Douglass, Bob Avellini.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1702 » by Ccwatercraft » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:17 am

Dresden wrote:
Brothaman33 wrote:I'm back to Mitch knowing full well he probably sucks. Younger, more mobile and he can miss all the same throws Foles can.

Miller stays in at punt returner
Alex Bars remains at Guard
Rashad Coward gets cut
Lamar Miller gets more carries
I literally cut screen plays out of the playbook, every pass has to go vertical
I aim to throw the ball downfield REGARDLESS if the line can block it or not. I'd rather take 14 sacks then watch another 1 yard screen pass. THROW THE BALL DOWN FIELD. Maybe you get a PI call.

I don't believe the talent of the recieving core is the issue. The line sucks, the playcalling sucks and your QB sucks.


That was just so typical and so pathetic on the last drive when they threw a WR screen to the left that should have lost 5 yards but Patterson turned into a 2 yard gain, and then on the very next play, they go right back to the same damn play on the other side of the field, and lose 5 yards. How unimaginative can you be? I'd love to see their playbook. Plays 1-75 are screen passes. Plays 76-99 are running plays. Play 100 is a downfield pass.


Sounds about right lol
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1703 » by thedarkstark » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:18 am

nitetrain8603 wrote:I don't think anyone has answered the question. How is tonight on Nagy when he gave up the playcalling? There's been a lack of talent on the offensive line since Cutler's been around. This year is more evident than any. And Anthony Miller sucks at catching a football. Talent voids fall on the GM, not coach.


Do you think Lazor put in a whole new playbook? This system is trash, it's not a pro offense. It's some cute gimmicky bull**** that wouldn't work in college let alone the NFL.


"I talked to a defensive coordinator... I asked them, 'hey tell me about the Chicago Bears' run game,'" McFarland said. "They said it's a trick 'em run game. They're not physical. They try to trick you. They're soft. They don't respect it."

"Soft?" a stunned Randy Moss chimed in.

"Soft. They do not respect what the Bears do. It's a gimmick offense," McFarland said. "As a defensive player, anytime I saw a gimmick offense I knew how to beat them, hit them in the mouth and you knock them out."
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1704 » by fleet » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:37 am

thedarkstark wrote:
nitetrain8603 wrote:I don't think anyone has answered the question. How is tonight on Nagy when he gave up the playcalling? There's been a lack of talent on the offensive line since Cutler's been around. This year is more evident than any. And Anthony Miller sucks at catching a football. Talent voids fall on the GM, not coach.


Do you think Lazor put in a whole new playbook? This system is trash, it's not a pro offense. It's some cute gimmicky bull**** that wouldn't work in college let alone the NFL.


"I talked to a defensive coordinator... I asked them, 'hey tell me about the Chicago Bears' run game,'" McFarland said. "They said it's a trick 'em run game. They're not physical. They try to trick you. They're soft. They don't respect it."

"Soft?" a stunned Randy Moss chimed in.

"Soft. They do not respect what the Bears do. It's a gimmick offense," McFarland said. "As a defensive player, anytime I saw a gimmick offense I knew how to beat them, hit them in the mouth and you knock them out."

How many years have we been hearing Nagy give lip service to commitment to running the ball? There are a couple problems, type of players, and the inflexible system. And then, apparently a lack of communication with the GM to execute. Unless Nagy was lying. This team is built and coached a certain way, and that stiffness is a problem if the talent is not at the level to do either style well enough in the first place. Once they realized they muffed the QB pick, they should have been obvious to adjust the system. But they are either too stubborn, or limited in abilty. Both probably.

My pet peeve is lack of elite speed at skill positions. The first time they took a stab at stocking some was I believe, this last draft when they brought in #11. And he amazingly gets on the field now after all these years of average to slower speed receiver picks have failed to improve the team and make plays. Well, the little guy too, but a gadget player in the 4th or 5th round is not a serious effort. There has never been a good offense without above average speed. For some reason these guys don’t value it.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1705 » by thedarkstark » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:58 am

fleet wrote:How many years have we been hearing Nagy give lip service to commitment to running the ball? There are a couple problems, type of players, and the inflexible system. And then, apparently a lack of communication with the GM to execute. Unless Nagy was lying. This team is built and coached a certain way, and that stiffness is a problem if the talent is not at the level to do either style well enough in the first place. Once they realized they muffed the QB pick, they should have been obvious to adjust the system. But they are either too stubborn, or limited in abilty. Both probably.

My pet peeve is lack of elite speed at skill positions. The first time they took a stab at stocking some was I believe, this last draft when they brought in #11. And he amazingly gets on the field now after all these years of average to slower speed receiver picks have failed to improve the team and make plays. Well, the little guy too, but a gadget player in the 4th or 5th round is not a serious effort. There has never been a good offense without above average speed. For some reason these guys don’t value it.


What do you mean? They the have the speedy & extremely versatile Cordarelle Patterson, he can play WR, RB, and KR! That clown Bellicheck was wasting his potential by only using him as a return man. Just give him the ball 30-40 times a game, if he makes 11 guys miss he can take it all the way to the house on every play!
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1706 » by Posey H8er » Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:06 pm

The best case scenario for the Bears would be to lose out and have a puncher's chance at one of the top QBs of the 2021 class. Lawrence and Fields are sadly out of reach, but Wilson or Lance may be available and they could be franchise QBs. And then you'd have a high 2nd round pick to improve the OL. I like Lance in theory and in theory he seems ideal for what Nagy's offense is 'supposed' to be.

The Bears defense is good enough to keep the score close against teams like JAX and Houston that they'll likely pull out at least a couple more wins. If that happens do not reach for a QB because the Bears could be in another 2-4 year window of QB uncertainty. Draft the most glaring hole which is OL. It's hard for me to fathom that ownership would let Pace try fixing the QB position again if the Bears lose out. Either way the QB situation is equally bad no matter how the standings play out, but the optics would be far worse at 5-11.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1707 » by molepharmer » Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:11 pm

- Two plays in a row inside the 20 to Ryan Nall should be enough to fire the O.C. or whomever is responsible for this offensive scheme.
- Looks like the best thing for the QB to do when a WR screen is called, is to throw the ball away. The result of those pitiful plays aren't because of a bad O-line, or a bad receiver, or a bad QB.
- I think the only pass Kmet received was actually intended for A Robinson.
- Kmet looked wide open at the goal line over the middle when Foles forced a pass to Graham. If his reads of the defense tell him to throw into coverage (or a 2yd out to Nall), it's truly head scratching. And if those are the correct throws the offensive scheme is a disaster.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1708 » by dougthonus » Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:07 pm

thedarkstark wrote:Do you think Lazor put in a whole new playbook? This system is trash, it's not a pro offense. It's some cute gimmicky bull**** that wouldn't work in college let alone the NFL.


Of course its gimmicky crap, the Bears are at a massive, massive talent deficit. Bears can't beat anyone on talent on offense, no hope of it, so they try to do something gimicky, because that's what is left.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1709 » by ATRAIN53 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:23 pm

What a waste of a great defense this season is.....again

It's just like the Cutler years when we had Tillman, Briggs and Urlacher and just need the offense to not suck!

I wish we had signed Philip Rivers, he's not dong too bad in Indy.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1710 » by IliketheBullsNBearstoo » Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:25 pm

nitetrain8603 wrote:I don't think anyone has answered the question. How is tonight on Nagy when he gave up the playcalling? There's been a lack of talent on the offensive line since Cutler's been around. This year is more evident than any. And Anthony Miller sucks at catching a football. Talent voids fall on the GM, not coach.


Because he's still the HEAD coach. This is on more than just one person though and there is some major house cleaning needed to be done. But lets be honest, how long has this been an issue with the Bears? And what is the real common denominator here? Ownership needs to step up or step out.

And yes Miller has been a disappointment but that INT is on Foles just as much as it was on him if not more. If that is the catch you are referring to with the Miller comment.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1711 » by CBS7 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:29 pm

Most of the problems start and end with the OL. Its gotta be one of the worst in the league.

Defense is good but not elite, but I'd imagine they'd look a lot better with a competent offense.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1712 » by Posey H8er » Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:58 pm

CBS7 wrote:Most of the problems start and end with the OL. Its gotta be one of the worst in the league.

Defense is good but not elite, but I'd imagine they'd look a lot better with a competent offense.

100%. Good OLs make football extremely watchable and make offenses look competent. They hide your lack of talent at RB and WR, which the Bears cannot do. QB is the only position group where you cannot hide your flaws but a good OL makes everything easier. Indy's offense is succeeding in spite of old man Rivers throwing to the other team and average RB play because of their OL (and a great talent evaluating GM who the Bears could have had...). A healthy James Daniels and top OL draft pick next year could bridge the gap to competency.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1713 » by ATRAIN53 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:20 pm

What about firing Nagy and making Pagano the HC for the rest of the year?

Players really seem to like him, he has the D playing as good as I've ever seen it and the guy is an experienced HC with 3 playoff victories under his belt......

We'd probably have the #1 Defense int he NFL if the offense wasn't going 3 and out constantly....
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1714 » by transplant » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:20 pm

When the Bears were 5-1, we all knew that they weren't that good. As injuries and Covid took their toll on the most vulnerable unit on the team, the O-line, reality came fast and hard.

QB is the most important position in pro sports. Trubisky fell short. Foles has somehow fallen shorter. Color me surprised. I bought the hype about how Foles knew the offense and would at least be competent. Even given the O-line deficiencies, Foles has been epically bad. He's somehow been more inaccurate than Trubisky. I actually thought that the O-line played OK yesterday, but Foles was awful. Any thoughts I had about the playcalling disappeared...under Foles it was even a bigger dumpster fire.

I heard Boomer Esiason on the SCORE today. I consider him a credible source when it comes to NFL offense and particularly QB play. He put the lion's share of the blame on Foles and believes that Nagy needs to start Trubisky (if he's healthy) against the Packers in order to not lose the team (particularly the defense).

The Bears are in a very bad place right now. I'm sure that Nagy doesn't want to start Trubisky, but the Bears are now in desperate times and desperate times call for desperate measures.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1715 » by dougthonus » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:38 pm

CBS7 wrote:Most of the problems start and end with the OL. Its gotta be one of the worst in the league.

Defense is good but not elite, but I'd imagine they'd look a lot better with a competent offense.


They may start with the OL, but they don't end there. Montgomery is awful even with a good line. He'd be better with a good line, but he's not explosive to the hole and isn't elusive. Foles/Trubisky were two of the bottom QBs in the NFL last year in QBR. Both would be better with a good line, but neither would be good.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1716 » by Susan » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:58 pm

dougthonus wrote:
CBS7 wrote:Most of the problems start and end with the OL. Its gotta be one of the worst in the league.

Defense is good but not elite, but I'd imagine they'd look a lot better with a competent offense.


They may start with the OL, but they don't end there. Montgomery is awful even with a good line. He'd be better with a good line, but he's not explosive to the hole and isn't elusive. Foles/Trubisky were two of the bottom QBs in the NFL last year in QBR. Both would be better with a good line, but neither would be good.


Montgomery led the NFL in missed tackles before he got hurt and PFF had him graded at an ~80. He's absolutely elusive, but he's not a breakaway runner.

Foles and Trubisky have sucked.

A better playcaller would put the three in better spots. Nagy disregarded the run from day one and doesn't really seem to respect it or understand it. Not to say he's a gamebreaker but look at Mike Davis' stats (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaviMi01.htm) here and in Seattle/Carolina. The time here was a major aberration, he's a decent player that looked like he didn't belong in the NFL under Nagy.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1717 » by Dresden » Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:22 pm

Foles has been bad, but I do think it's also a lot due to the OL. Foles is a rhythm QB, and you just can't get in a rhythm when half the time you're getting sacked before you can throw the ball. On the few plays when he has had time, he's been off more than on, but I think that's in part because he hasn't been able to establish any kind of flow or momentum due to the above. I think he's a better QB than he's shown, that's for sure. OTH, he's not the right QB for this offense, the way it is now. Someone more mobile is badly needed.

Early in the game, every time Bears were in an obvious passing down, MN just blitzed, and almost every time, Foles had to throw the ball away, or make some wild pass before he was hit. Every time. They had no chance on 3rd and long. That has to be partly on the coaching staff, not designing plays to counter the blitz, as well as on the line, for not being able to pick it up. They showed on TV numerous miscommunications within the line about who was supposed to pick up whom on a blitz.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1718 » by thedarkstark » Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:22 am

dougthonus wrote:
thedarkstark wrote:Do you think Lazor put in a whole new playbook? This system is trash, it's not a pro offense. It's some cute gimmicky bull**** that wouldn't work in college let alone the NFL.


Of course its gimmicky crap, the Bears are at a massive, massive talent deficit. Bears can't beat anyone on talent on offense, no hope of it, so they try to do something gimicky, because that's what is left.

These are Nagy's guys, these guys are who he wanted, his scheme sucks, he's an awful coach.

Pace got rid of a player he drafted, Jordan Howard 1 year removed from a 1,100 yard season because he didn't fit "the scheme" Nagy wanted a running back who could run all of his stupid gadget plays with. He brought in Nick Foles, Tyler Bray, Chase Daniel, Taylor Gabriel, David Montgomery, Trey Burton, Cordarelle Patterson because those were the guys Nagy asked for.

I'm not absolving Pace of any blame, he deserves an equal amount because again he hired Nagy and sat on his hands about the O-line, but you're crazy if you can't see this is EXACTLY the offense Nagy has wanted to run from day one, it just isn't good.

Doug Pederson runs the same scheme in Philly, they were 1 hit wonders behind an O Line with 4 pro bowlers, and now they're in the same boat as the Bears. Both rode the coat tails of the actual offensive genius - Andy Reid, and now that the system they took from him doesn't work anymore they can't adapt because they're not good at their job, they're imitators not innovators.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1719 » by nitetrain8603 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:51 am

Posey H8er wrote:
CBS7 wrote:Most of the problems start and end with the OL. Its gotta be one of the worst in the league.

Defense is good but not elite, but I'd imagine they'd look a lot better with a competent offense.

100%. Good OLs make football extremely watchable and make offenses look competent. They hide your lack of talent at RB and WR, which the Bears cannot do. QB is the only position group where you cannot hide your flaws but a good OL makes everything easier. Indy's offense is succeeding in spite of old man Rivers throwing to the other team and average RB play because of their OL (and a great talent evaluating GM who the Bears could have had...). A healthy James Daniels and top OL draft pick next year could bridge the gap to competency.


Good O-Lines give everyone more time to process and make the plays they need to. A guy like Derek Carr has looked good because of a good O-Line. He would look awful with the Bears.

Bears need to spend every pick on OL and then sign a bunch of undrafted FAs. That's how awful their OLine is. James Daniels was the only competent one on that line I felt, but I thought they were stupid in moving him from C to G when they drafted him.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#1720 » by CBS7 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:58 am

dougthonus wrote:
CBS7 wrote:Most of the problems start and end with the OL. Its gotta be one of the worst in the league.

Defense is good but not elite, but I'd imagine they'd look a lot better with a competent offense.


They may start with the OL, but they don't end there. Montgomery is awful even with a good line. He'd be better with a good line, but he's not explosive to the hole and isn't elusive. Foles/Trubisky were two of the bottom QBs in the NFL last year in QBR. Both would be better with a good line, but neither would be good.


I may have imagined it, but I feel like I remember reading that monty ranks very highly in yards after contact. He just consistently gets hit in the backfield.

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