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OT Bears 2019/20 season

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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#21 » by dougthonus » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:25 pm

I will say Trubisky looked a lot better than he was given credit for. Watching EPSN's morning show they are talking about how he looked poor in the 1st three quarters and was only good at the end. Reading some of the articles about Trubisky's performance is more of the same. Went through and rewatched all of his incompletions after going through the play by play.

1st drive - no passes
2nd drive - Graham mistimes jump, a reasonable play by Graham, and he potentially has a touchdown and highly likely gets inside the 10, Trubisky was accurate other than that (2 completions and 1 throw away)
3rd drive - Trubisky has 1 bad lob pass to Miller, but otherwise looks good on the drive, potential PI in the end zone on a catchable ball stops the team from potentially scoring a touchdown.
4th drive - Has one overthrow under pressure where he is knocked down, has play that should have been picked off, but the pick off comes because it goes right through Robinson's hands, while saying the big interception is missed, it ignores the fact that it should have been a catch by Robinson on a perfectly thrown ball between three defenders and 1st and 20.
5th drive - Miss to Graham in the endzone on a ball that is off his finger tips (excellent coverage, but a good throw, put it only where graham can get it. Miss to Kmet in the endzone on a god awful throw that he misses him by like 3 yards to the left. This is probably Mitch's first really bad throw out of around 15 on the day and 2nd bad throw overall (lob to Miller was way off but looked like a miscommuncation)
6th drive - (the one right before halftime), long pass to Miller is on his hands, but Miller can't pull it in, was good coverage, but a throw only where the receiver can get it, misses receiver in stride running across the field which should have been a simple pass catch (3rd bad pass on the day) - end of bears in 1st half

There was 1-2 catches where maybe the ball could have been delivered a bit more smoothly to get the runner in stride, but there were probably 5 passes that weren't all necessarily drops, but were certainly catchable by good receivers including two in the end zone.

7th drive - no incompletions

3 of the 4 next drives end in touchdowns for the Bears.

I think there were only maybe 2 plays that were truly bad (miss of Kmet and the fumble where he kept running backwards, and could have easily ended up much worse).

I don't think the Detroit defense is even average. Their pass rush was awful and at one point they were missing their top 3 corners. However, Mitch pretty unequivocally played really well this game even throughout the whole game when we weren't scoring IMO. My biggest concern with him was that when he had to move, his accuracy went way down. His few bad throws came on scrambles and roll outs (including the miss on Kmet).

When the coaching staff goes through game film, I think they'll feel a lot better about his day than we did live.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#22 » by molepharmer » Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:36 pm

Will happily take the win. But still wonder about Nagy's play calling. He continues to be a bit too gimmicky for my taste. Shovel pass to Robinson inside the 10 yd line, not running Montgomery inside the 10, Patterson running wide for a 4th down, etc. Even though some worked, I'd rather run the ball down their throat until the D shows they can stop it; work-in the occasional play action, maybe toss one to the Bears big TEs.

I hadn't thought that a game against the Giants would be a big test but I'm getting that feeling. Which Mitch and what defense shows up next week?
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#23 » by patryk7754 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:03 pm

dougthonus wrote:I will say Trubisky looked a lot better than he was given credit for. Watching EPSN's morning show they are talking about how he looked poor in the 1st three quarters and was only good at the end. Reading some of the articles about Trubisky's performance is more of the same. Went through and rewatched all of his incompletions after going through the play by play.

1st drive - no passes
2nd drive - Graham mistimes jump, a reasonable play by Graham, and he potentially has a touchdown and highly likely gets inside the 10, Trubisky was accurate other than that (2 completions and 1 throw away)
3rd drive - Trubisky has 1 bad lob pass to Miller, but otherwise looks good on the drive, potential PI in the end zone on a catchable ball stops the team from potentially scoring a touchdown.
4th drive - Has one overthrow under pressure where he is knocked down, has play that should have been picked off, but the pick off comes because it goes right through Robinson's hands, while saying the big interception is missed, it ignores the fact that it should have been a catch by Robinson on a perfectly thrown ball between three defenders and 1st and 20.
5th drive - Miss to Graham in the endzone on a ball that is off his finger tips (excellent coverage, but a good throw, put it only where graham can get it. Miss to Kmet in the endzone on a god awful throw that he misses him by like 3 yards to the left. This is probably Mitch's first really bad throw out of around 15 on the day and 2nd bad throw overall (lob to Miller was way off but looked like a miscommuncation)
6th drive - (the one right before halftime), long pass to Miller is on his hands, but Miller can't pull it in, was good coverage, but a throw only where the receiver can get it, misses receiver in stride running across the field which should have been a simple pass catch (3rd bad pass on the day) - end of bears in 1st half

There was 1-2 catches where maybe the ball could have been delivered a bit more smoothly to get the runner in stride, but there were probably 5 passes that weren't all necessarily drops, but were certainly catchable by good receivers including two in the end zone.

7th drive - no incompletions

3 of the 4 next drives end in touchdowns for the Bears.

I think there were only maybe 2 plays that were truly bad (miss of Kmet and the fumble where he kept running backwards, and could have easily ended up much worse).

I don't think the Detroit defense is even average. Their pass rush was awful and at one point they were missing their top 3 corners. However, Mitch pretty unequivocally played really well this game even throughout the whole game when we weren't scoring IMO. My biggest concern with him was that when he had to move, his accuracy went way down. His few bad throws came on scrambles and roll outs (including the miss on Kmet).

When the coaching staff goes through game film, I think they'll feel a lot better about his day than we did live.


i don't really know what people are saying about Mitch because I've grown tired of stupid opinions. But Trubisky was pretty solid. He obviously had a couple bad throws and decisions but that's been the case since year one and I guess it won't change. I blame most of his struggles on the lack of good flow to the play calling. Everyone has been saying that Mitch needs rhythm and when he was in rhythm he did well then a weird play call comes in. In the fourth, Nagy had no choice but let Mitch loose and he shined.

Honestly, there was one play that I considered really bad and it was the 4th down throw. Even the throw that was almost picked should have been caught. People are gonna say it was a bad decision but he put it on Robinson's hands so I had no problem with it.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#24 » by dougthonus » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:44 pm

patryk7754 wrote:i don't really know what people are saying about Mitch because I've grown tired of stupid opinions. But Trubisky was pretty solid. He obviously had a couple bad throws and decisions but that's been the case since year one and I guess it won't change. I blame most of his struggles on the lack of good flow to the play calling. Everyone has been saying that Mitch needs rhythm and when he was in rhythm he did well then a weird play call comes in. In the fourth, Nagy had no choice but let Mitch loose and he shined.

Honestly, there was one play that I considered really bad and it was the 4th down throw. Even the throw that was almost picked should have been caught. People are gonna say it was a bad decision but he put it on Robinson's hands so I had no problem with it.


Everyone praised that good throw that Miller caught at the end, but I thought he had four more throws like that where Robinson (2x), Miller, and Graham all had hands on the ball and couldn't come down with it on plays that would have been huge. 2 of which were in the end zone. The last one with Miller catching it was just the odds balancing out on them not coming down with any of the other tough but catchable passes earlier.

I thought it was a very solid game by Mitch and a pretty poor game by the receivers. That said, again, very poor defense he was going up against, tons of time in the pocket, no pressure, poor corners, etc, etc... I think he vastly outplayed his numbers in that game, but he's going to still have a tougher time in future games because he won't have all day to throw against a defense playing its 3rd string defensive backs.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#25 » by nitetrain8603 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:05 pm

As someone who is not a Bears fan, I think the take ignores a lot Doug. You made mention how Mitch threw a perfect ball to Allen Robinson with three defenders on him. You ignore the fact that if 3 defenders are on Robinson, someone else is open and missed. Allen dropped the ball, yeah, I guess you're right there. Let's take, for example. 3rd quarter with about a minute and a half left. Trubisky stays in the pocket (about the only "good" thing) and he zips a ball to Allen Robinson with three defenders draped on him. Robinson lies out for the ball and catches it. Great pass, right?

No, because he had Jimmy Graham wide open for the 1st down with at least another 10 yards to gain.

The pass to Jimmy where he "mistimed" his jump - Jimmy had his defender beat. Trubisky throws a bad ball. Instead of leading his receiver so he can get some YAC, he zips it unnecessarily high. One of the most understated things about Trubisky is this fault - he rarely leads his receivers. Typically, they have to dive, jump, reach for their shoelaces, etc to catch a Trubisky ball. Very rarely can he throw a pass to someone in stride without having them break stride.

Mitch played horrible, but the Lions were the Lions in the 4th and it's the only reason more people aren't calling for Mitch's head.

Also, the Bears defense, I think will only be top 10. Their offense is not going to do them many favors with allowing them to get rest at all.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#26 » by HoopsterJones » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:18 pm

Trubisky either was inaccurate by overthrowing in some instances (Jimmy Graham TD, check down to Montgomery in the flat) or underthrow (Miller, Robinson on the sideline). Then he got it together in the 4th by some miracle or the injured two corners from the Lions. Either way, Mitch has earned some equity for now by pulling a rabbit out of his arse and leading to a win.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#27 » by dougthonus » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:38 pm

nitetrain8603 wrote:As someone who is not a Bears fan, I think the take ignores a lot Doug. You made mention how Mitch threw a perfect ball to Allen Robinson with three defenders on him. You ignore the fact that if 3 defenders are on Robinson, someone else is open and missed. Allen dropped the ball, yeah, I guess you're right there. Let's take, for example. 3rd quarter with about a minute and a half left. Trubisky stays in the pocket (about the only "good" thing) and he zips a ball to Allen Robinson with three defenders draped on him. Robinson lies out for the ball and catches it. Great pass, right?


Well guys break towards the ball. It wasn't like Robinson was triple teamed at the time the ball was thrown. Beyond that if you throw a tight spiral and hit the dude in the hands for a 20 yard gain, and its your best receiver then you should count on him making that play IMO.

The pass to Jimmy where he "mistimed" his jump - Jimmy had his defender beat. Trubisky throws a bad ball. Instead of leading his receiver so he can get some YAC, he zips it unnecessarily high. One of the most understated things about Trubisky is this fault - he rarely leads his receivers. Typically, they have to dive, jump, reach for their shoelaces, etc to catch a Trubisky ball. Very rarely can he throw a pass to someone in stride without having them break stride.


Agreed the throw could have been slightly better, but it should have been caught by Graham, it was a really, really poor play by the receiver.

Mitch played horrible, but the Lions were the Lions in the 4th and it's the only reason more people aren't calling for Mitch's head.


I didn't think so at all. The types of things you complained about happen all games with all QBs, but tend to get overlooked. I've not been a big believer in Mitch, and I'm not a believer now either, but this wasn't a bad game. He's historically missed guys by tons. He ended this game with good numbers and had about 5 more long passes that could have been caught.

Again though, it was against an awful defense with tons of time, so i'm not convinced this performance will scale at all.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#28 » by fleet » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:51 pm

AP didn’t have any trouble avoiding Bears linebackers obviously. Part of that is being blocked by OLinemen that didn’t have to deal with full time Hicks and Goldman, but that was pretty bad. AP made cuts at the first level and he was gone. The whole team looked like they were sleeping, the defense never really woke up. The Lions were bad, but seemed more ready to play that game.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#29 » by fleet » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:00 pm

dougthonus wrote:I will say Trubisky looked a lot better than he was given credit for. Watching EPSN's morning show they are talking about how he looked poor in the 1st three quarters and was only good at the end. Reading some of the articles about Trubisky's performance is more of the same. Went through and rewatched all of his incompletions after going through the play by play.

1st drive - no passes
2nd drive - Graham mistimes jump, a reasonable play by Graham, and he potentially has a touchdown and highly likely gets inside the 10, Trubisky was accurate other than that (2 completions and 1 throw away)
3rd drive - Trubisky has 1 bad lob pass to Miller, but otherwise looks good on the drive, potential PI in the end zone on a catchable ball stops the team from potentially scoring a touchdown.
4th drive - Has one overthrow under pressure where he is knocked down, has play that should have been picked off, but the pick off comes because it goes right through Robinson's hands, while saying the big interception is missed, it ignores the fact that it should have been a catch by Robinson on a perfectly thrown ball between three defenders and 1st and 20.
5th drive - Miss to Graham in the endzone on a ball that is off his finger tips (excellent coverage, but a good throw, put it only where graham can get it. Miss to Kmet in the endzone on a god awful throw that he misses him by like 3 yards to the left. This is probably Mitch's first really bad throw out of around 15 on the day and 2nd bad throw overall (lob to Miller was way off but looked like a miscommuncation)
6th drive - (the one right before halftime), long pass to Miller is on his hands, but Miller can't pull it in, was good coverage, but a throw only where the receiver can get it, misses receiver in stride running across the field which should have been a simple pass catch (3rd bad pass on the day) - end of bears in 1st half

There was 1-2 catches where maybe the ball could have been delivered a bit more smoothly to get the runner in stride, but there were probably 5 passes that weren't all necessarily drops, but were certainly catchable by good receivers including two in the end zone.

7th drive - no incompletions

3 of the 4 next drives end in touchdowns for the Bears.

I think there were only maybe 2 plays that were truly bad (miss of Kmet and the fumble where he kept running backwards, and could have easily ended up much worse).

I don't think the Detroit defense is even average. Their pass rush was awful and at one point they were missing their top 3 corners. However, Mitch pretty unequivocally played really well this game even throughout the whole game when we weren't scoring IMO. My biggest concern with him was that when he had to move, his accuracy went way down. His few bad throws came on scrambles and roll outs (including the miss on Kmet).

When the coaching staff goes through game film, I think they'll feel a lot better about his day than we did live.

That is the glass half full outlook, and it’s fine. The Lions are the Lions. And they lost their best LB Collins on ref abuse, and most of their top DBs were down. Mitch bought himself another chance, but that’s about all we can say at this time.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#30 » by jsleesl28 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:06 pm

we are missing eddie goldman pretty bad.

he was the anchor in the middle.

what is the protocol on players changing their mind to comeback once they opted out?
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#31 » by dougthonus » Mon Sep 14, 2020 11:22 pm

fleet wrote:That is the glass half full outlook, and it’s fine. The Lions are the Lions. And they lost their best LB Collins on ref abuse, and most of their top DBs were down. Mitch bought himself another chance, but that’s about all we can say at this time.


I agree in general, I'm not saying "wow Mitch impresses me so much!", but there was nothing wrong with his game really, even in all those non scoring drives, Mitch basically played reasonably well and was let down by his receivers. Last year it was much the other way around.

That said, I agree, Detroit's defense isn't good and they were down a ton of their starters on top of it. They had no pressure on Trubisky and he had all day long. He's going to have a much tougher time in future games.

I don't look at this game as proof of anything, but to me the game was much better than credited. People were acting like he had tons and tons of bad plays all game long and just came through at the end. That wasn't really the case though. They were largely moving the ball pretty well and receivers weren't coming down with a lot of passes that they reasonably could have.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#32 » by fleet » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:34 am

Hey I remember Mitch as a rookie making all these accurate deep throws in a preseason game, and I was convinced. Especially based on his draft position. I think the odds are against him being consistent based on all we have seen. That said he ought to be extremely able to run the system and anticipate open receivers. So his arm talent may make up for his mental limits. I bet he improves. Just not that he’ll ever be consistently good, because good QBs have the mental decisiveness. And good consistent mechanics! He was still throwing off the back foot and poor footwork. Terry mentioned an example at halftime.

Defenses know Nagy’s system too by now. I see Mitch as a reactive QB. He has to see a receiver open, so his throwing windows are smaller. Where better QBs anticipation and ability to throw guys open is the separation factor that makes them win plays.

Opening day, he had all offseason to be ready to lead and be decisive against Detroit, and I didn’t see a ton of decisive throws earlier in the game where he just pulled the trigger based on knowledge and anticipation of the defense. Why not? That was a mental limit that has been seen before. What happened when the team was desperate and he executed Sunday? I think he had less options that would work given the circumstances, and was forced to go to certain receivers. Less to think about in the pocket. How does Nagy repeat that scenario seems pretty simple. Reduce Mitch’s throwing options to 1 or 2 predetermined at the most, and let him rip. If they aren’t open throw the ball away or take off.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#33 » by Jeffster81 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:19 am

Trubisky did not play well until the 4th. Despite two throws, I thought Trubisky were pretty mediocre on the day. His leash should still be short against the Giants.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season and beyond 

Post#34 » by dice » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:20 am

dougthonus wrote:
dice wrote:the robinson one certainly wasn't egregious. he didn't complain much if any. looked worse live than on replay. and i don't recall many outright drops by bears receivers other than the first throw to jimmy graham. nor do i remember the PI call you're referring to (appears to be an 11 yarder on buster skrine in 3rd quarter on a 1st and 10 - not exactly game changing)

i also left out the lions losing their star linebacker early due to touching the ref

unrelated: espn had lions at 98.3% win probability after peterson broke a run to bears 35 w/ 6 minutes left up 10


Robinson also had a drop on a long pass near the end zone that hit him in the hands in addition to the Graham drop. The PI call was probably the one you are referring to. I must have had the down wrong in my head, for some reason I thought it was a 3rd down PI call.

I agree the PI on Robinson in the endzone wasn't egregious but it was definitely worse than the one they had just called 2 minutes ago on the other end where the Bears made contact after the ball was there and were legitimately going for the ball and had an angle on the ball that was probably better than the receivers angle. I remember thinking live that it probably should have been a no call, but you could have easily called it offensive interference.

Either way, I thought those were more or less similar swings to the plays you mentioned. This didn't really feel like a game where the Bears were getting killed all game and then had a couple lucky big plays except perhaps the interception. The Bears were moving the ball effectively both in the ground and in the air between the 20s for most of the game and had some key drops that stopped them from scoring touch downs.

I'm not psyched about the win or anything, I expect the Lions to be awful this year, and there was some luck that went there way at point, but I didn't feel it was disproportionate luck. They had some key plays that they absolutely should have made, just like the Lions did. Both teams are pretty bad and failed in key situations to give their opponent chances.

i'm not discounting your perspective, but i thought that the 4 biggest plays of the game were pretty obvious:

1) easy game winning catch dropped
2) interception dropped with open field ahead
3) decision to kick FG/miss
4) bears recovering trubisky's fumble in the open field. if the lions scoop it it's probably a TD
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#35 » by patryk7754 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:25 am

Jeffster81 wrote:Trubisky did not play well until the 4th. Despite two throws, I thought Trubisky were pretty mediocre on the day. His leash should still be short against the Giants.

Good or bad I disagree that his lease should be short. The staff needs to take any limiters off so the team can know undoubtedly if he can lead this team to the playoffs.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#36 » by patryk7754 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:27 am

I have a problem with Nagy's playcalling but his play design is pretty damn good. It looked like there was an open receiver on every pass play and the run scheme was very effective.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#37 » by fleet » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:32 am

patryk7754 wrote:
Jeffster81 wrote:Trubisky did not play well until the 4th. Despite two throws, I thought Trubisky were pretty mediocre on the day. His leash should still be short against the Giants.

Good or bad I disagree that his lease should be short. The staff needs to take any limiters off so the team can know undoubtedly if he can lead this team to the playoffs.

Dont you believe Nagy wants to show off his extensive playlist? If Mitch is limited on offense, there must be a reason

I don’t agree increases in his workload helps him execute. I think less, and more predetermined is how you use hin. Ever notice that it seems like he is just along for the ride on offense? Just another guy performing a role rather than leading and directing outcomes. A guy looking around after plays rather than calling out situations and problems. No instructions for others. Being a leader is not a tool in his toolbox imo, would not go trying to find that aspect, especially by giving a slow thinker too many options to consider.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#38 » by Betta Bulleavit » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:41 am

Jeffster81 wrote:Trubisky did not play well until the 4th. Despite two throws, I thought Trubisky were pretty mediocre on the day. His leash should still be short against the Giants.

If that’s your position, that’s cool. You’re entitled to it. But I think we need to keep it all in perspective. Just looking at it purely from a QBR perspective, Mitch is at like a 55 give or take. That’s not good. But let’s take a look at some QBs with worse QBRs. Watson, Stafford, Goff, Wentz, Brady and Mayfield are all sitting under him. Are any of those guys playing on a short leash?? Yes, I know he doesn’t have some of their resumes. But it does show that there were QBs that struggled mightily this week.
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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#39 » by Susan » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:04 am

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Re: OT Bears 2019/20 season 

Post#40 » by nomorezorro » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:42 am

1. it feels deranged to me to go pass-by-pass on mitch's performance to try to go "eh he wasn't that bad before the fourth quarter." we know who mitch is; he sucks and should be considered sucky until he gives us overwhelming reason to believe otherwise. he does not warrant the mental energy to debate whether his performance in the first three quarters against a bad and short-handed defense was bad or just unremarkable

2. i 100% agree with the posts about nagy's play designs being good. that's reassuring, because i was feeling kinda ambivalent about him coming into the season. part of the frustration with mitch for me is that this felt more like 2018, where the scheming was on-point and the big variable was whether mitch could get the ball to the right guy. (i also didn't really feel like the playcalling was worth criticizing. personally wouldn't have minded going a lil more run-heavy even in the third when we were trailing because it was more reliable than the pass game, but given the score i can't really complain)

3. all the stats that said mack had a good performance individually is genuinely astonishing. did not come through at all watching live. wonder if it's just a one-game fluke that he felt invisible or if he needs other linemen to step up for the impact to be clearer
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