Highlights from Chicago Bulls bubble

[ZOMG]

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I remember a clip of Noah making something like 10 threes in a row in an empty gym.

[Dez]

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I remember a clip of Noah making something like 10 threes in a row in an empty gym.

And that has to do with WCJ working on his game how?

[ZOMG]

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I remember a clip of Noah making something like 10 threes in a row in an empty gym.

And that has to do with WCJ working on his game how?

Just the fact that nothing is as useless as short video clips of NBA players working on stuff in empty gyms. They don't prove a thing about the player's "work ethic" and can't be extrapolated in a meaningful way to apply to the coming season. It's just practice, and all these guys are incredibly good at pretty much anything when there aren't any defenders around.

The funniest example of overrelying on video clips is the fact that many people consider Zach LaVine to have by far the highest "work ethic" on the team. The proof? Just Zach and his people posting lots of workout clips.

[StunnerKO]

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That tweet is from 2016

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2017 tweet

It’s not video clips it’s the perception of him from his peers


Lavine has been praised for his work ethic from wolves media , teammates and other coaches it’s just not talk he walks it. if you really followed Lavine in his career and you would know that it’s mostly true than not. Nobody was comparing him to the league but I can safely say Lavine is the hardest worker on the team not to be disrespectful but that’s just how he’s built based growing up idolizing Kobe , that’s why he wears 8 .not only that Lavine improved game year after year shows me he puts in tremendous work to do the stuff he does with the shots; Not only talent but muscle memory. If you know ball it’s not hard to see a guy who really puts in work in the offseason. I think Coby and Wendell have good work ethics as well. From the video looking at the smoothest of Carter’s jumpshot than shooting in the gym because it’s an expect he can truly use in a game. Nobody was talking those Noah 3’s seriously

[The Chosen one]

I remember a clip of Noah making something like 10 threes in a row in an empty gym.

And that has to do with WCJ working on his game how?

Just the fact that nothing is as useless as short video clips of NBA players working on stuff in empty gyms. They don't prove a thing about the player's "work ethic" and can't be extrapolated in a meaningful way to apply to the coming season. It's just practice, and all these guys are incredibly good at pretty much anything when there aren't any defenders around.

The funniest example of overrelying on video clips is the fact that many people consider Zach LaVine to have by far the highest "work ethic" on the team. The proof? Just Zach and his people posting lots of workout clips.

I remember that video but there’s a few things wrong here. First Noah wasn’t shooting 3s he was at about the top of the circles closer to the free throw line. Second he was stationary shooting jumpers. Not running on the move catching and shooting. 3rd Noah never was a shooter ever. During his NBA first team year he was actually making mid range jumpers at a decent clip enough to keep defenders honest. Carter actually has a nice form and nice stroke. He shot 40 percent from 3 in college and was even decent in highechool. It’s not out of the question for him to show improvement in his third year in the league with more opportunities to shoot. I remember that game vs Drummond and the Detroit Pistons Carter was lighting it up from midrange. And it’s a known fact that Lavine has work ethic. Lots of players around the league has mentioned it, not just his people.

[Dez]

I remember a clip of Noah making something like 10 threes in a row in an empty gym.

And that has to do with WCJ working on his game how?

Just the fact that nothing is as useless as short video clips of NBA players working on stuff in empty gyms. They don't prove a thing about the player's "work ethic" and can't be extrapolated in a meaningful way to apply to the coming season. It's just practice, and all these guys are incredibly good at pretty much anything when there aren't any defenders around.

The funniest example of overrelying on video clips is the fact that many people consider Zach LaVine to have by far the highest "work ethic" on the team. The proof? Just Zach and his people posting lots of workout clips.

Oh so this is just another one of your LaVine rants? Got it.

How is a player working on a weaknesses in his game useless?

[ZOMG]

And that has to do with WCJ working on his game how?

Just the fact that nothing is as useless as short video clips of NBA players working on stuff in empty gyms. They don't prove a thing about the player's "work ethic" and can't be extrapolated in a meaningful way to apply to the coming season. It's just practice, and all these guys are incredibly good at pretty much anything when there aren't any defenders around.

The funniest example of overrelying on video clips is the fact that many people consider Zach LaVine to have by far the highest "work ethic" on the team. The proof? Just Zach and his people posting lots of workout clips.

Oh so this is just another one of your LaVine rants? Got it.

How is a player working on a weaknesses in his game useless?

The work is good, the clips are useless. Just PR.

[Dez]

Just the fact that nothing is as useless as short video clips of NBA players working on stuff in empty gyms. They don't prove a thing about the player's "work ethic" and can't be extrapolated in a meaningful way to apply to the coming season. It's just practice, and all these guys are incredibly good at pretty much anything when there aren't any defenders around.

The funniest example of overrelying on video clips is the fact that many people consider Zach LaVine to have by far the highest "work ethic" on the team. The proof? Just Zach and his people posting lots of workout clips.

Oh so this is just another one of your LaVine rants? Got it.

How is a player working on a weaknesses in his game useless?

The work is good, the clips are useless. Just PR.

They aren't useless at all, it doesn't automatically means he's going to be bombing threes at 40% clip next season but it shows a player recognizing a weakness in his game and working on it.

[ZOMG]

Oh so this is just another one of your LaVine rants? Got it.

How is a player working on a weaknesses in his game useless?

The work is good, the clips are useless. Just PR.

They aren't useless at all, it doesn't automatically means he's going to be bombing threes at 40% clip next season but it shows a player recognizing a weakness in his game and working on it.

Everybody is made to shoot threes in practice these days. Everybody.

The fact that we don't see any clips of a certain player working on their game also doesn't mean they're not working on it. Game performance is the proof.

[Dez]

The work is good, the clips are useless. Just PR.

They aren't useless at all, it doesn't automatically means he's going to be bombing threes at 40% clip next season but it shows a player recognizing a weakness in his game and working on it.

Everybody is made to shoot threes in practice these days. Everybody.

The fact that we don't see any clips of a certain player working on their game also doesn't mean they're not working on it. Game performance is the proof.

Nobody said this was the case, you've just nitpicked for the sake of it.

It's an off-season video of a guy working on his game.

[TeamMan]

Just the fact that nothing is as useless as short video clips of NBA players working on stuff in empty gyms. They don't prove a thing about the player's "work ethic" and can't be extrapolated in a meaningful way to apply to the coming season. It's just practice, and all these guys are incredibly good at pretty much anything when there aren't any defenders around.

The funniest example of overrelying on video clips is the fact that many people consider Zach LaVine to have by far the highest "work ethic" on the team. The proof? Just Zach and his people posting lots of workout clips.

Oh so this is just another one of your LaVine rants? Got it.

How is a player working on a weaknesses in his game useless?

The work is good, the clips are useless. Just PR.

Corner 3Ps for a center is useless.

He can not possibly get back and protect the rim.

It only makes sense for a PF.

Meaning that the Bulls are experimenting with playing WCJ at PF.

[Dez]

Oh so this is just another one of your LaVine rants? Got it.

How is a player working on a weaknesses in his game useless?

The work is good, the clips are useless. Just PR.

Corner 3Ps for a center is useless.

He can not possibly get back and protect the rim.

It only makes sense for a PF.

Meaning that the Bulls are experimenting with playing WCJ at PF.

It doesn't mean that at all, it's about spacing the floor as much as possible.

WCJ is not a PF.

[TallDude]

Boban is a great 3pt shooter in practise. Still he don´t use it in games. There are better ones.

[MrFortune3]

Lot of irrelevance...

However, for me it's very basic, the relevance is winning.

At the end of the day JB is a winner.

The fact that he had to go through 3 bad situations to get to a good situation is what is irrelevant to me.

Is Jimmy Butler a great player in the right situation, absolutely. Doesn't contract anything I've said. He's just a player that needs the org, the coaching staff, and his teammates all 100% aligned to his viewpoint or else he's going to have a problems with anyone that doesn't. That lack of flexibility can be anywhere from no problem to a huge problem.

In fairness, Jimmy's issue with his other teams was that certain players were half assing things.
Simmons didn't want to improve or listen to some of the critiques Jimmy had. KAT and Wiggins give **** effort on defense and don't dominate in any way.
All of those guys are more talented than Jimmy and he's more impactful than all of them.

[MrFortune3]

Is this some ironic inside joke that this is even being argued? Do people not follow the Bulls? The heat between Carter Jr & LM is old news. Again, the guy publicly came out & said “I want his job”. There were reports of a confrontation/spat in the locker room after a loss. A friend of Lauri’s ON THIS VERY board verified the heat, and a Finnish dude in one of the FB groups who knows LM & his family verified it too. They don’t like one another & will never be close. It was clear as day that they dislike one another in games last year. They barely even looked at one another, never bumped fists, nothing

They're both 2 young players who need prove themselves in the league. No one gives two **** if they like each other or not. They still have to work together and help the team improve.

[dougthonus]

In fairness, Jimmy's issue with his other teams was that certain players were half assing things.
Simmons didn't want to improve or listen to some of the critiques Jimmy had. KAT and Wiggins give **** effort on defense and don't dominate in any way.
All of those guys are more talented than Jimmy and he's more impactful than all of them.

I agree with these things. Getting back to the original point about leadership, maybe I'd put it like this:

From the perspective of a leader is someone that can come in, change a culture, motivate people, get people to do the right thing, work with those with opposing views to get to the best place possible (how I would traditionally view leadership), Jimmy is not that guy.

From being a guy you can rely on through thick and thin in tough spaces, to step up big when you need it, to be better than he has any right to be when it matters most, Jimmy is that guy. To me, that's more about being an outstanding individual contributor. It's probably inspiring to be around which is also a form of leadership as well, but it's not the same as building something and getting the most out of those around you.

Either way, there is no doubt Jimmy is great.

To put it in another perspective, Scottie Pippen was more of a leader than Michael Jordan, while Jordan was the inspiring individual contributor that dragged everyone to success. Scottie was the guy who picked everyone up when they were down, made sure they didn't quit, made sure they could survive Jordan. In some of these other places, Butler probably needed a strong Pippen type to make sure guys could survive him.

[MrFortune3]

In fairness, Jimmy's issue with his other teams was that certain players were half assing things.
Simmons didn't want to improve or listen to some of the critiques Jimmy had. KAT and Wiggins give **** effort on defense and don't dominate in any way.
All of those guys are more talented than Jimmy and he's more impactful than all of them.

I agree with these things. Getting back to the original point about leadership, maybe I'd put it like this:

From the perspective of a leader is someone that can come in, change a culture, motivate people, get people to do the right thing, work with those with opposing views to get to the best place possible (how I would traditionally view leadership), Jimmy is not that guy.

From being a guy you can rely on through thick and thin in tough spaces, to step up big when you need it, to be better than he has any right to be when it matters most, Jimmy is that guy. To me, that's more about being an outstanding individual contributor. It's probably inspiring to be around which is also a form of leadership as well, but it's not the same as building something and getting the most out of those around you.

Either way, there is no doubt Jimmy is great.

To put it in another perspective, Scottie Pippen was more of a leader than Michael Jordan, while Jordan was the inspiring individual contributor that dragged everyone to success. Scottie was the guy who picked everyone up when they were down, made sure they didn't quit, made sure they could survive Jordan. In some of these other places, Butler probably needed a strong Pippen type to make sure guys could survive him.

There are different forms of leadership though. Jimmy is a leader, he's just not going to baby you and put up with your BS. Which was the issue in Philly and Minnesota. They coddled Simmons and the Wolves coddled KAT and Wiggins.
True enough Jimmy has issues with players not giving their all as he would see fit but that is an extension of his do it all way or not at all personality.

The only guys he really clashed with were guys who didn't want to change their perception of success.
Embiid for instance is supposedly less than always motivated yet he and Jimmy were pretty close and Embiid loves Jimmy. Simmons is supposedly a pretty hard worker and yet they don't like one another.

Sure he could change his style and use a different tone to connect with other players but then that's not authentic and people will pick up on that.
You can't go into a iffy or rotten culture and be Mr Nice Guy, you are there to fix it and get people on board with being successful.

[dougthonus]

There are different forms of leadership though. Jimmy is a leader, he's just not going to baby you and put up with your BS.

Which was the issue in Philly and Minnesota. They coddled Simmons and the Wolves coddled KAT and Wiggins.
True enough Jimmy has issues with players not giving their all as he would see fit but that is an extension of his do it all way or not at all personality.

The only guys he really clashed with were guys who didn't want to change their perception of success.
Embiid for instance is supposedly less than always motivated yet he and Jimmy were pretty close and Embiid loves Jimmy. Simmons is supposedly a pretty hard worker and yet they don't like one another.

Sure he could change his style and use a different tone to connect with other players but then that's not authentic and people will pick up on that.
You can't go into a iffy or rotten culture and be Mr Nice Guy, you are there to fix it and get people on board with being successful.

A good leader would go into Minnesota or Philly and have gotten the best out of guys. They wouldn't alienate and diminish the best people there. Jimmy did that.

You seem to be looking at things like "well he was right these guys needed to change" and saying that he was a good leader because he was right. A good leader would have figured out how to make them change without alienating them.

Does that mean he would have to go in and be Mr. nice guy? Some people respond better to that and fall apart under intense pressure. Some people maybe need a mix. Some people need a stern message but also understanding. Who knows what KAT/Wiggins/Simmons/Whomever needed exactly, but what we can say is Jimmy Butler sure as heck didn't know and couldn't provide it.

That's what leadership is. If you're dropped in a situation with 5 guys and can't change them, how do you get the best outcome, Jimmy Butler wouldn't figure that out appropriately in my estimation, not unless all 5 guys immediately already did things the way he wanted.

Anyway, it's a moot point really, I think leadership is vastly overrated in the NBA. Talent is not. Butler is talented and has the things you need. Maybe, as I said, people just use the word differently than I would.

[StunnerKO]

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[Dez]

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That is nasty.

Get a damn 3 ball Hutch and you're a starting quality player.