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Lauri:' I can make the comeback'

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Lauri extension?

Don't want to see one happen - let him show me more first
40
33%
4 years/$40M-$50M
22
18%
4 year/$50M-$65M
28
23%
4 years/$65M-$80M
22
18%
4 years/$80M+
6
5%
Other (explain)
4
3%
 
Total votes: 122

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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#1061 » by WindyCityBorn » Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:35 pm

mlitney01 wrote:It's looking like Lauri will be shooting over 40% on his 3pta this season, which is fantastic. He's also been aggressive in driving to the hoop and drawing fouls and/or finishing, which has showed me that he can create a little bit for himself. The next step would be to get his eyes up and look for open cutters/shooters during those drives to the basket.

I feel like his defense has improved slightly. He's had a few really nice defensive stops near the basket, but there's still a lot of work to be done there. As many have said before, he doesn't possess the length or athleticism to become an elite rim protector, but I think he can be solid. And that should be more than enough if he's scoring 20ppg on 50/40/80.

He's not a max player yet, but if he can add another dimension, such as finding open players on his drives, then I think he's worth it. He's only 23 and seems to have a good work ethic so I don't feel like these goals are unrealistic.


We have played 3 games. Thinking he will shoot over 40 percent from 3 all season is Hell of an assumption. Anything over 37 would be great as long he continues to score other ways,
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#1062 » by ThisGuyFawkes » Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:40 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:
mlitney01 wrote:It's looking like Lauri will be shooting over 40% on his 3pta this season, which is fantastic. He's also been aggressive in driving to the hoop and drawing fouls and/or finishing, which has showed me that he can create a little bit for himself. The next step would be to get his eyes up and look for open cutters/shooters during those drives to the basket.

I feel like his defense has improved slightly. He's had a few really nice defensive stops near the basket, but there's still a lot of work to be done there. As many have said before, he doesn't possess the length or athleticism to become an elite rim protector, but I think he can be solid. And that should be more than enough if he's scoring 20ppg on 50/40/80.

He's not a max player yet, but if he can add another dimension, such as finding open players on his drives, then I think he's worth it. He's only 23 and seems to have a good work ethic so I don't feel like these goals are unrealistic.


We have played 3 games. Thinking he will shoot over 40 percent from 3 all season is Hell of an assumption. Anything over 37 would be great as long he continues to score other ways,


Yeah, honestly after I wrote that, I immediately questioned my own assumption of that. I guess after watching these 3 games (after not watching many last season), his shot looks improved and Lauri looks confident in it. Some of his 3's have been pure beauty, and I hope it continues.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#1063 » by dougthonus » Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:47 pm

TheSuzerain wrote:This is why we need to put the "Coby starting at PG" hair-brained scheme back on the shelf.

Play Sato or Denzel at that spot and let's showcase Lauri and Zach.


If you think this really gets you more in trade for Lauri or Zach then I would be fine doing that, then resuming the Coby at PG experiment after the trade deadline. IMO, it's really hard to see any scenario where trading Zach and Lauri at the deadline is not the best move. Even if the returns are small.

Lauri - He's a FA and we are under the cap, there is no advantage to keeping him vs not keeping him, heck we could even just bid on him again in FA next summer if we wanted. Might as well get whatever you can, even if it is small.

Zach - He might be worth keeping, but one of two things is going to happen, he's going to be offered the 30% max and we have to pay him that and even then he might choose to take someone else's max over ours. Or he's not going to be worth that much and is worth less than he is today. In either scenario, the Bulls are better off trading him now, and it is extremely likely his value will decline.

Both these points might be different under different circumstances, if we thought we were going to go somewhere in the next two years or if we were over the cap, but we appear at the start of a deep, deep rebuild. These guys aren't ever going to be worth more to us later, so unless we're willing to be the high bidders on both (and we probably shouldn't be based on where we are right now) then we should get what we can and commence with the rebuild of the rebuild.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#1064 » by PaKii94 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:48 pm

mlitney01 wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
mlitney01 wrote:It's looking like Lauri will be shooting over 40% on his 3pta this season, which is fantastic. He's also been aggressive in driving to the hoop and drawing fouls and/or finishing, which has showed me that he can create a little bit for himself. The next step would be to get his eyes up and look for open cutters/shooters during those drives to the basket.

I feel like his defense has improved slightly. He's had a few really nice defensive stops near the basket, but there's still a lot of work to be done there. As many have said before, he doesn't possess the length or athleticism to become an elite rim protector, but I think he can be solid. And that should be more than enough if he's scoring 20ppg on 50/40/80.

He's not a max player yet, but if he can add another dimension, such as finding open players on his drives, then I think he's worth it. He's only 23 and seems to have a good work ethic so I don't feel like these goals are unrealistic.


We have played 3 games. Thinking he will shoot over 40 percent from 3 all season is Hell of an assumption. Anything over 37 would be great as long he continues to score other ways,


Yeah, honestly after I wrote that, I immediately questioned my own assumption of that. I guess after watching these 3 games (after not watching many last season), his shot looks improved and Lauri looks confident in it. Some of his 3's have been pure beauty, and I hope it continues.


Second year after recovering from the elbow until he started having fatigue issues he was at 38.7% on 6.7 attempts a game for 34 games.

Last year after that oblique injury to when he had a bad ankle roll he was at 40.8% on 8.7 attempts a game for 17 games.

This year with 3 healthy games he's at 47.6% on 8.7 attempts a game.

I think 40% is within Lauri's range if he stays healthy. Let's see how this calf contusion affects him
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#1065 » by tedwilliams1999 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:27 pm

PaKii94 wrote:
mlitney01 wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:
We have played 3 games. Thinking he will shoot over 40 percent from 3 all season is Hell of an assumption. Anything over 37 would be great as long he continues to score other ways,


Yeah, honestly after I wrote that, I immediately questioned my own assumption of that. I guess after watching these 3 games (after not watching many last season), his shot looks improved and Lauri looks confident in it. Some of his 3's have been pure beauty, and I hope it continues.


Second year after recovering from the elbow until he started having fatigue issues he was at 38.7% on 6.7 attempts a game for 34 games.

Last year after that oblique injury to when he had a bad ankle roll he was at 40.8% on 8.7 attempts a game for 17 games.

This year with 3 healthy games he's at 47.6% on 8.7 attempts a game.

I think 40% is within Lauri's range if he stays healthy. Let's see how this calf contusion affects him


This streakiness dates back to his college years as well --> if I remember correctly, he was averaging near 50% through much of the year for Arizona, before coming back down to earth. Hopefully he can maintain some sort of consistency this season for as long as possible.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#1066 » by Dez » Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:59 pm

Swuul wrote:
Dez wrote:I grow tired of these Lauri fanatics that cannot handle any criticism thrown at Lauri that's well warranted given what he's produced to date in his career and just label everyone "blind haters", take off the Lauri homer goggles.

Funny. I for one have grown rather tired of a certain hater who has repeadetly said "Lauri has no value" and then hammered it in with "Nobody would offer Lauri 20 bucks not to mention 20 million bucks" (the last is maybe not verbatim, as I can't be bothered to find the exact quote).


I mean it's not my fault that hyperbole and not understanding trade value got lost in translation.

Off topic: It seems trolling is ok as long as it is performed by a well-established forumite or a moderator. Which for a rather new forumite like me seems like a weird take. Allowing trolling from a select few on a forum is a rather guaranteed way to disrupt the general atmosphere of that forum. Personally if I wanted to follow a poop-storm I'd head over to the reddit group; I would be extremely pleased if these forums would remain as a beacon of sanity, with critical discussion based on facts and not trolling.


The facts are ignored by Lauri fans, that's the issue.

There are still people trying to argue that he's good defensively...............

He's doing well offensively to start the season but his defense has been atrocious and it's getting largely ignored by his fans who will then attack Coby's defense (which has been bad also). I just want consistency, apply the same leash to all the other players that they give to Lauri or be as critical of Lauri as they are every other player.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#1067 » by Swuul » Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:28 pm

Dez wrote:The facts are ignored by Lauri fans, that's the issue.

That is a logical fallacy. There are perhaps two or possibly three people posting here who are "ignoring the facts". Claiming "Lauri fans" in general ignore facts is an ad hominem attack, and has nothing to do with facts or reality. I am a Lauri fan, and I feel insulted by your claim; your claim I ignore facts is disrespectful and a blatant lie. That you cling on to such blatant lies, shifting the goal-post as you are called out, tells to me a lot of your character and integrity.

I have absolutely no problem reading critical comments based on facts, be they on Bulls or any given Bulls player. Outright lies and general ad hominem attacks on fellow forumites is quite a different thing, and I can not understand why such attacks are allowed to be performed by some posters. Newer posters are warned and banned, and rightly so, but apparently the rules are different for those who have been around for a decade or more; established posters are allowed to perform insults, write blatant generalising lies, use trolling internet memes (like for example post Simpson videos copied from the "trolling for idiots" reddit group), etc. That is something I feel is quite disturbing.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#1068 » by sco » Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:13 am

I give Lauri credit for playing, but blame the new medical staff for not stopping him. I'm betting he's out for 3 weeks now :shrug:

At least it will Thad a chance to work himself back into a flow.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#1069 » by ZOMG » Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:05 am

sco wrote:I give Lauri credit for playing, but blame the new medical staff for not stopping him. I'm betting he's out for 3 weeks now :shrug:

At least it will Thad a chance to work himself back into a flow.


Love people on Twitter calling him "soft" and "injury prone" after the Washington game.

1. Guy again gets injured by his own teammate (watch the replay, Wendell sweeps Lauri's leg like he's in the All Valley Karate Tournament)
2. Tries to tough it out and play, seems to be doing well
3. Is physically unable to continue

"SOFT!!!"
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#1070 » by DroseReturnChi » Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:05 am

Dez wrote:
Swuul wrote:
Dez wrote:I grow tired of these Lauri fanatics that cannot handle any criticism thrown at Lauri that's well warranted given what he's produced to date in his career and just label everyone "blind haters", take off the Lauri homer goggles.

Funny. I for one have grown rather tired of a certain hater who has repeadetly said "Lauri has no value" and then hammered it in with "Nobody would offer Lauri 20 bucks not to mention 20 million bucks" (the last is maybe not verbatim, as I can't be bothered to find the exact quote).


I mean it's not my fault that hyperbole and not understanding trade value got lost in translation.

Off topic: It seems trolling is ok as long as it is performed by a well-established forumite or a moderator. Which for a rather new forumite like me seems like a weird take. Allowing trolling from a select few on a forum is a rather guaranteed way to disrupt the general atmosphere of that forum. Personally if I wanted to follow a poop-storm I'd head over to the reddit group; I would be extremely pleased if these forums would remain as a beacon of sanity, with critical discussion based on facts and not trolling.


The facts are ignored by Lauri fans, that's the issue.

There are still people trying to argue that he's good defensively...............

He's doing well offensively to start the season but his defense has been atrocious and it's getting largely ignored by his fans who will then attack Coby's defense (which has been bad also). I just want consistency, apply the same leash to all the other players that they give to Lauri or be as critical of Lauri as they are every other player.


Your just anti Lauri and thats just wrong bc you have no reason to. White (fake pg for 7 pick), Lavine (30%max) are justified hate bc of those single reason and those are not you want on a lottery team. Lauri is basically KP2.0 hated by his own fans but is way more durable and offensively more potent as well as rebounding.

AK finally listened your crap reasoning and wont sign for whatever reason. And still complaining why isnt he gone? Just quit following the team by then.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#1071 » by dougthonus » Wed Dec 30, 2020 3:57 pm

ZOMG wrote:
sco wrote:I give Lauri credit for playing, but blame the new medical staff for not stopping him. I'm betting he's out for 3 weeks now :shrug:

At least it will Thad a chance to work himself back into a flow.


Love people on Twitter calling him "soft" and "injury prone" after the Washington game.

1. Guy again gets injured by his own teammate (watch the replay, Wendell sweeps Lauri's leg like he's in the All Valley Karate Tournament)
2. Tries to tough it out and play, seems to be doing well
3. Is physically unable to continue

"SOFT!!!"


"soft" and "injury prone" are two completely different things to me. Lauri might be both or might be neither. He has had a large amount of injuries over time and has been consistently dinged up. Does he stay out longer than someone else would with a similar injury? How could we even know? Does he get hurt more frequently due to something with his body or conditioning? How could we know? The one that was the most concerning to me was the "fatigue" injury. A lot of his injuries just seem like fluky things that shouldn't cause concern in the future. It's not like he's had a string of knee surgeries or consistent back problems (Though he has had some back problems they seem gone recently).

Soft in terms of injuries is stupid, who knows what he is going through. Soft on the court? I don't think he's scared to mix it up really, but he's not real strong for his size IMO. He's not a weakling down there that gets out muscled by everyone. I would say he's probably not soft, but he's not a bully either. Just kind of in the middle of what you'd expect from a guy his size.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#1072 » by dougthonus » Wed Dec 30, 2020 4:19 pm

DroseReturnChi wrote:Lauri is basically KP2.0 hated by his own fans but is way more durable and offensively more potent as well as rebounding.


Lauri has missed 25% of his games without any season ending type injuries. Durability has definitely not been his strength. He's maybe better than PostACL KP, but who cares?

AK finally listened your crap reasoning and wont sign for whatever reason. And still complaining why isnt he gone? Just quit following the team by then.


ROFL yeah, AK listened to twitter fans and made his decision that way. Good call. I'm sure that's exactly what happened.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#1073 » by ZOMG » Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:48 pm

dougthonus wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
sco wrote:I give Lauri credit for playing, but blame the new medical staff for not stopping him. I'm betting he's out for 3 weeks now :shrug:

At least it will Thad a chance to work himself back into a flow.


Love people on Twitter calling him "soft" and "injury prone" after the Washington game.

1. Guy again gets injured by his own teammate (watch the replay, Wendell sweeps Lauri's leg like he's in the All Valley Karate Tournament)
2. Tries to tough it out and play, seems to be doing well
3. Is physically unable to continue

"SOFT!!!"


"soft" and "injury prone" are two completely different things to me. Lauri might be both or might be neither. He has had a large amount of injuries over time and has been consistently dinged up. Does he stay out longer than someone else would with a similar injury? How could we even know? Does he get hurt more frequently due to something with his body or conditioning? How could we know? The one that was the most concerning to me was the "fatigue" injury. A lot of his injuries just seem like fluky things that shouldn't cause concern in the future. It's not like he's had a string of knee surgeries or consistent back problems (Though he has had some back problems they seem gone recently).

Soft in terms of injuries is stupid, who knows what he is going through. Soft on the court? I don't think he's scared to mix it up really, but he's not real strong for his size IMO. He's not a weakling down there that gets out muscled by everyone. I would say he's probably not soft, but he's not a bully either. Just kind of in the middle of what you'd expect from a guy his size.


I've said before that the fatigue / heart rate thing was something of a scary red flag to me. Not even in a basketball sense, but just in terms of a general health risk. But apparently he's been thoroughly checked out - like any NBA team, the Bulls would never let him play if there was something actually wrong with his heart.

But as you said, Lauri's had some really fluky injuries as well. This is now the second time he's been randomly injured by a teammate (his elbow injury was the result of a rebound battle in practice) and last season Marcus Smart fell on his ankle. You can't do anything to avoid this stuff.

I think there really is such a thing as being "injury prone" in the NBA, but IMO it should only mean players who have something weird going on biomechanically, so that their bodies simply can't take the grind of the NBA. I'd call Denzel injury prone, and Otto as well (it tells you something that I just caught myself thinking, "Otto's been pretty healthy this season!" and then I realized we've played four games).
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#1074 » by sco » Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:55 pm

ZOMG wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
Love people on Twitter calling him "soft" and "injury prone" after the Washington game.

1. Guy again gets injured by his own teammate (watch the replay, Wendell sweeps Lauri's leg like he's in the All Valley Karate Tournament)
2. Tries to tough it out and play, seems to be doing well
3. Is physically unable to continue

"SOFT!!!"


"soft" and "injury prone" are two completely different things to me. Lauri might be both or might be neither. He has had a large amount of injuries over time and has been consistently dinged up. Does he stay out longer than someone else would with a similar injury? How could we even know? Does he get hurt more frequently due to something with his body or conditioning? How could we know? The one that was the most concerning to me was the "fatigue" injury. A lot of his injuries just seem like fluky things that shouldn't cause concern in the future. It's not like he's had a string of knee surgeries or consistent back problems (Though he has had some back problems they seem gone recently).

Soft in terms of injuries is stupid, who knows what he is going through. Soft on the court? I don't think he's scared to mix it up really, but he's not real strong for his size IMO. He's not a weakling down there that gets out muscled by everyone. I would say he's probably not soft, but he's not a bully either. Just kind of in the middle of what you'd expect from a guy his size.


I've said before that the fatigue / heart rate thing was something of a scary red flag to me. Not even in a basketball sense, but just in terms of a general health risk. But apparently he's been thoroughly checked out - like any NBA team, the Bulls would never let him play if there was something actually wrong with his heart.

But as you said, Lauri's had some really fluky injuries as well. This is now the second time he's been randomly injured by a teammate (his elbow injury was the result of a rebound battle in practice) and last season Marcus Smart fell on his ankle. You can't do anything to avoid this stuff.

I think there really is such a thing as being "injury prone" in the NBA, but IMO it should only mean players who have something weird going on biomechanically, so that their bodies simply can't take the grind of the NBA. I'd call Denzel injury prone, and Otto as well (it tells you something that I just caught myself thinking, "Otto's been pretty healthy this season!" and then I realized we've played four games).

I think the guys in the NBA who get injured more than others tend to fall into 3 categories:

1) Aggressive defenders...guys like Dunn or Nwaba who are often getting tangled up with guys

2) Big leapers...guys who are often way up in the air for rebounds and blocks.

3) Out of shape players...likely to get injured crossing the street, but not too many of them play big minutes anyway.

I don't see Lauri in any of those buckets, but there's no hiding the fact that he's oft injured, so I'll be optimistic it's just flukey.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#1075 » by dougthonus » Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:57 pm

PaKii94 wrote:Second year after recovering from the elbow until he started having fatigue issues he was at 38.7% on 6.7 attempts a game for 34 games.

Last year after that oblique injury to when he had a bad ankle roll he was at 40.8% on 8.7 attempts a game for 17 games.

This year with 3 healthy games he's at 47.6% on 8.7 attempts a game.

I think 40% is within Lauri's range if he stays healthy. Let's see how this calf contusion affects him


If you want to discount all data where he had nagging injuries that he played through, then you will probably have to discount 1/3rd to 1/2 his season every year, because players just play through nagging injuries all the time. It is part of the league.

I do hope he shoots well going forward of course. He definitely has shown the ability to stay hot for good stretches.

Another interesting thing is that Lauri shoots a ton of wide open threes and almost exclusively assisted threes. It will be interesting the defense changes on him if he starts shooting more consistently (ie, people stay at home more) and if he's able to add some off the dribble threes in isolation which would be an excellent evolution to his game, and ultimately, Dirk's ability to score in isolation is what made him Dirk. Lauri's probably never going to be a heavy iso scorer, but he's mixed up a lot more this season which is a positive sign.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#1076 » by dougthonus » Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:05 pm

sco wrote:I think the guys in the NBA who get injured more than others tend to fall into 3 categories:

1) Aggressive defenders...guys like Dunn or Nwaba who are often getting tangled up with guys

2) Big leapers...guys who are often way up in the air for rebounds and blocks.

3) Out of shape players...likely to get injured crossing the street, but not too many of them play big minutes anyway.

I don't see Lauri in any of those buckets, but there's no hiding the fact that he's oft injured, so I'll be optimistic it's just flukey.


I'd guess some of Lauri's problems with injury are that big men tend to get hurt more from my subjective memory and he is sometimes asked to battle against some really strong, big dudes and may not have the muscle to take the pounding as much as he's being asked to.

That said a lot of his injuries some kind of fluky, and most injuries are kind of fluky. Like he got kicked in the calf here or got his elbow locked up and sprained, like I'm not sure anything avoids that. Some of the other stuff like the back injuries early or the oblique issue he had might be more signs of chronic problems. The fatigue thing is just a head scratcher all around. Either way, for his time in the league, he's a had a lot of different things, but so far none of them are big red flags.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#1077 » by ZOMG » Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:16 pm

dougthonus wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:Second year after recovering from the elbow until he started having fatigue issues he was at 38.7% on 6.7 attempts a game for 34 games.

Last year after that oblique injury to when he had a bad ankle roll he was at 40.8% on 8.7 attempts a game for 17 games.

This year with 3 healthy games he's at 47.6% on 8.7 attempts a game.

I think 40% is within Lauri's range if he stays healthy. Let's see how this calf contusion affects him


If you want to discount all data where he had nagging injuries that he played through, then you will probably have to discount 1/3rd to 1/2 his season every year, because players just play through nagging injuries all the time. It is part of the league.

I do hope he shoots well going forward of course. He definitely has shown the ability to stay hot for good stretches.

Another interesting thing is that Lauri shoots a ton of wide open threes and almost exclusively assisted threes. It will be interesting the defense changes on him if he starts shooting more consistently (ie, people stay at home more) and if he's able to add some off the dribble threes in isolation.


I'm not sure anyone really wants him to shoot off the dribble three pointers in isolation. To me it seems that whenever he gets the ball on the perimeter and puts it on the floor, people start screaming for him to get in the post or just drive to the hoop. Hell, you regularly hear it on this very forum. And it seems Donovan thinks the same way.

Big volume 3pt shooting is here to stay, but it's also important to try to maximize the quality of perimeter looks. It's no wonder all teams love kickout threes and pick and pops. Those are the best ones. NBA defenders are so good that a contested off the dribble 3pt shot is very rarely a good option.

People like Zach can make them, but IMO leaning too heavily on these shots is foolish.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#1078 » by dougthonus » Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:23 pm

ZOMG wrote:I'm not sure anyone really wants him to shoot off the dribble three pointers in isolation. To me it seems that whenever he gets the ball on the perimeter and puts it on the floor, people start screaming for him to get in the post or just drive to the hoop. Hell, you regularly hear it on this very forum. And it seems Donovan thinks the same way.


Being a threat to shoot a three in isolation or being a threat to drive is what makes both of those things more possible and makes you more dangerous. If you lunge forward with one dribble and put the ball on the ground and your guy retreats a half step then you just pull your foot back and launch a three and can hit that shot, its a dangerous counter to the drive. That's more the shot I'm talking about I guess. I don't think he's going to ever be James Harden dribbling between his legs for 10 seconds then taking a step back three.

Also, it doesn't mean he has to do that, but its just an example of something I think he could reasonably add. Not a ton of off the dribble threes, but just a quick drive fake into a three and maybe get 10-20% of his shots that way. When asking Lauri to have more volume and for the Bulls to find him more shots, he needs to start doing things like this. If you're always getting him assisted looks, then the reasons his shot totals go down is because the defense can start taking him away much easier.

At any rate, maybe not something fort his year for Lauri, he should focus on doing well with what he can do, but I think its an intriguing area of growth, and if he is to become the best version of himself then it will be something he adds eventually.

Big volume 3pt shooting is here to stay, but it's also important to try to maximize the quality of perimeter looks. It's no wonder all teams love kickout threes and pick and pops. Those are the best ones. NBA defenders are so good that a contested off the dribble 3pt shot is very rarely a good option.


Of course, but you can't just generate open threes at will. If the Bulls could, they'd probably take every shot as an open three or dunk attempt each game, but you can't do that. The defense only gives up those shots when they've screwed up and they don't screw up every time (or even most times).
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#1079 » by chefo » Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:31 pm

ZOMG wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:Second year after recovering from the elbow until he started having fatigue issues he was at 38.7% on 6.7 attempts a game for 34 games.

Last year after that oblique injury to when he had a bad ankle roll he was at 40.8% on 8.7 attempts a game for 17 games.

This year with 3 healthy games he's at 47.6% on 8.7 attempts a game.

I think 40% is within Lauri's range if he stays healthy. Let's see how this calf contusion affects him


If you want to discount all data where he had nagging injuries that he played through, then you will probably have to discount 1/3rd to 1/2 his season every year, because players just play through nagging injuries all the time. It is part of the league.

I do hope he shoots well going forward of course. He definitely has shown the ability to stay hot for good stretches.

Another interesting thing is that Lauri shoots a ton of wide open threes and almost exclusively assisted threes. It will be interesting the defense changes on him if he starts shooting more consistently (ie, people stay at home more) and if he's able to add some off the dribble threes in isolation.


I'm not sure anyone really wants him to shoot off the dribble three pointers in isolation. To me it seems that whenever he gets the ball on the perimeter and puts it on the floor, people start screaming for him to get in the post or just drive to the hoop. Hell, you regularly hear it on this very forum. And it seems Donovan thinks the same way.

Big volume 3pt shooting is here to stay, but it's also important to try to maximize the quality of perimeter looks. It's no wonder all teams love kickout threes and pick and pops. Those are the best ones. NBA defenders are so good that a contested off the dribble 3pt shot is very rarely a good option.

People like Zach can make them, but IMO leaning too heavily on these shots is foolish.


If the other team does change the D as described, our coaching staff start high-fiving and going to bed with a grin from ear to ear. Why?

1.) If nothing else, another 'big' is nowhere near the paint and can't double the ball handler.
2.) If they start playing him tight, you just run a simple 'screen the screener' set after the initial pick and pop action and all kinds of mayhem starts happening defensively because there are very few teams that are disciplined enough and smart enough to constantly make the correct reads when there is a lot going on off ball.
3.) It allows Lauri to drive
4.) It allows Lauri to slip the screen
5.) etc., etc.

When you have a very talented shooter who is not a complete stiff, taking away his attempts costs a lot to a defense. Coach D seems to be the most perceptive guy we've had since... Thibs? He'll know how to counter the counter.
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Re: Lauri:' I can make the comeback' 

Post#1080 » by dougthonus » Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:39 pm

chefo wrote:If the other team does change the D as described, our coaching staff start high-fiving and going to bed with a grin from ear to ear. Why?

1.) If nothing else, another 'big' is nowhere near the paint and can't double the ball handler.
2.) If they start playing him tight, you just run a simple 'screen the screener' set after the initial pick and pop action and all kinds of mayhem starts happening defensively because there are very few teams that are disciplined enough and smart enough to constantly make the correct reads when there is a lot going on off ball.
3.) It allows Lauri to drive
4.) It allows Lauri to slip the screen
5.) etc., etc.

When you have a very talented shooter who is not a complete stiff, taking away his attempts costs a lot to a defense. Coach D seems to be the most perceptive guy we've had since... Thibs? He'll know how to counter the counter.


It is absolutely a huge benefit to the Bulls if teams start trying to stay at home with Lauri or rotate stronger towards him for the reasons you state. Even if he just scores less but creates off ball gravity like Kyle Korver there is a big benefit to everyone else by that.
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