Around The NBA

[Andi Obst]

And just like that, another non-shooting 5 turns expendable.

It's totally mind-boggling that some Bulls fans still think we should keep drafting and signing these guys.

And many people really thought the Cavs won that deadline deal.

I think they absolutely won the deal. They traded garbage and a 2nd for a legit starting center. Weather they come to terms with him is another story. I think Drummond can still be good but it's got to be on a team where he is sourounded by shooters and creators. Sort of like Clint Capela on the Rockets.

I do agree with you guys though that it lowers the ceiling of the team and isn't worth a max or near max salary spot. And I certainly wouldn't draft one with the 4. However I think Wiseman is a different beast from Drummond. If that's where this was going.

I don't think Wiseman is going to be better than Drummond, but I wasn't going for that here. The Drummond trade did nothing for the Cavs. They are not significantly better, still definitely a lottery team and are now in a weird situation where they will probably end up paying a guy who isn't worth their time because they traded for him. It was a no-upside move. Hell, keeping Tristan Thompson around would have been better. The Pistons cleared some money, can easily re-sign Wood now and didn't even bother with pointless Drummond extension talks. It's a clear win for them in my book.

[TheStig]

And many people really thought the Cavs won that deadline deal.

I think they absolutely won the deal. They traded garbage and a 2nd for a legit starting center. Weather they come to terms with him is another story. I think Drummond can still be good but it's got to be on a team where he is sourounded by shooters and creators. Sort of like Clint Capela on the Rockets.

I do agree with you guys though that it lowers the ceiling of the team and isn't worth a max or near max salary spot. And I certainly wouldn't draft one with the 4. However I think Wiseman is a different beast from Drummond. If that's where this was going.

I don't think Wiseman is going to be better than Drummond, but I wasn't going for that here. The Drummond trade did nothing for the Cavs. They are not significantly better, still definitely a lottery team and are now in a weird situation where they will probably end up paying a guy who isn't worth their time because they traded for him. It was a no-upside move. Hell, keeping Tristan Thompson around would have been better. The Pistons cleared some money, can easily re-sign Wood now and didn't even bother with pointless Drummond extension talks. It's a clear win for them in my book.

I still don't think it's a bad move. That team is desperate to be better. They really want to get in the playoffs and getting some guys who can play will help. And they gave up only a 2nd for him. I think he'll be good for them this year.

[MrSparkle]

I think they absolutely won the deal. They traded garbage and a 2nd for a legit starting center. Weather they come to terms with him is another story. I think Drummond can still be good but it's got to be on a team where he is sourounded by shooters and creators. Sort of like Clint Capela on the Rockets.

I do agree with you guys though that it lowers the ceiling of the team and isn't worth a max or near max salary spot. And I certainly wouldn't draft one with the 4. However I think Wiseman is a different beast from Drummond. If that's where this was going.

I don't think Wiseman is going to be better than Drummond, but I wasn't going for that here. The Drummond trade did nothing for the Cavs. They are not significantly better, still definitely a lottery team and are now in a weird situation where they will probably end up paying a guy who isn't worth their time because they traded for him. It was a no-upside move. Hell, keeping Tristan Thompson around would have been better. The Pistons cleared some money, can easily re-sign Wood now and didn't even bother with pointless Drummond extension talks. It's a clear win for them in my book.

I still don't think it's a bad move. That team is desperate to be better. They really want to get in the playoffs and getting some guys who can play will help. And they gave up only a 2nd for him. I think he'll be good for them this year.

My 2c on Drummond is he's basically the most obsolete player in all the NBA. I'd rather have the "old-school PF." Cause IMO, most old-school PFs can slide to C. The worst are the slow-footed, big centers who can't space (or worse yet, hit FTs). Like RoLo. In 15-20 mpg increments, they can still control the glass and draw fouls in the paint. But paying more than the MLE for that production? No thanks.

At least Capella, Whiteside and Jordan could run the floor really quickly at one point, and they had bounce that put them well over the rim. That's what Wiseman is going for, with maybe a jump-shot. More appealing to me than Drummond.

[Mech Engineer]

I don't think Wiseman is going to be better than Drummond, but I wasn't going for that here. The Drummond trade did nothing for the Cavs. They are not significantly better, still definitely a lottery team and are now in a weird situation where they will probably end up paying a guy who isn't worth their time because they traded for him. It was a no-upside move. Hell, keeping Tristan Thompson around would have been better. The Pistons cleared some money, can easily re-sign Wood now and didn't even bother with pointless Drummond extension talks. It's a clear win for them in my book.

I still don't think it's a bad move. That team is desperate to be better. They really want to get in the playoffs and getting some guys who can play will help. And they gave up only a 2nd for him. I think he'll be good for them this year.

My 2c on Drummond is he's basically the most obsolete player in all the NBA. I'd rather have the "old-school PF." Cause IMO, most old-school PFs can slide to C. The worst are the slow-footed, big centers who can't space (or worse yet, hit FTs). Like RoLo. In 15-20 mpg increments, they can still control the glass and draw fouls in the paint. But paying more than the MLE for that production? No thanks.

At least Capella, Whiteside and Jordan could run the floor really quickly at one point, and they had bounce that put them well over the rim. That's what Wiseman is going for, with maybe a jump-shot. More appealing to me than Drummond.

You can find Drummond types in the free agent market for MLE or even for vet min. Lakers got Dwight/McGee for vet mins, I think. There is always one wing or guard who can't space the floor very well but are pretty good in slashing, handling the ball, play making etc.. For those guys, these big Centers are a hindrance to success. A guy like Taj could make a jumpshot and can slide over to the Center. But, when you have really tall guys like Jokic, AD ...you would need a bigger guy than Taj to defend. Those times, guys like Drummond are useful. But, they are like running backs of the NBA. You can get around with replacement type players. You don't need to invest a top 5 pick or spend huge money/assets on them.

They are essential but replaceable. They are the ones you wait for bargain pickups and not spend your all-important capspace or high pick. That said, there might be a old school GM who might end up paying Drummond because of his defense/rim protection as they might have Trae Young type defenders on the perimeter.

[TheStig]

I still don't think it's a bad move. That team is desperate to be better. They really want to get in the playoffs and getting some guys who can play will help. And they gave up only a 2nd for him. I think he'll be good for them this year.

My 2c on Drummond is he's basically the most obsolete player in all the NBA. I'd rather have the "old-school PF." Cause IMO, most old-school PFs can slide to C. The worst are the slow-footed, big centers who can't space (or worse yet, hit FTs). Like RoLo. In 15-20 mpg increments, they can still control the glass and draw fouls in the paint. But paying more than the MLE for that production? No thanks.

At least Capella, Whiteside and Jordan could run the floor really quickly at one point, and they had bounce that put them well over the rim. That's what Wiseman is going for, with maybe a jump-shot. More appealing to me than Drummond.

You can find Drummond types in the free agent market for MLE or even for vet min. Lakers got Dwight/McGee for vet mins, I think. There is always one wing or guard who can't space the floor very well but are pretty good in slashing, handling the ball, play making etc.. For those guys, these big Centers are a hindrance to success. A guy like Taj could make a jumpshot and can slide over to the Center. But, when you have really tall guys like Jokic, AD ...you would need a bigger guy than Taj to defend. Those times, guys like Drummond are useful. But, they are like running backs of the NBA. You can get around with replacement type players. You don't need to invest a top 5 pick or spend huge money/assets on them.

They are essential but replaceable. They are the ones you wait for bargain pickups and not spend your all-important capspace or high pick. That said, there might be a old school GM who might end up paying Drummond because of his defense/rim protection as they might have Trae Young type defenders on the perimeter.

Mcgee and Howard are much cheaper because one is 32 and the other is 34 and have had issues and injuries. Drummond just turned 27. He's also been healthy and drama free. He'll get one more good contract. He'll only be an MLE guy if he's chasing a ring. He'll likely get a 15 mill a year deal some where.

[ZOMG]

I don't think Wiseman is going to be better than Drummond, but I wasn't going for that here. The Drummond trade did nothing for the Cavs. They are not significantly better, still definitely a lottery team and are now in a weird situation where they will probably end up paying a guy who isn't worth their time because they traded for him. It was a no-upside move. Hell, keeping Tristan Thompson around would have been better. The Pistons cleared some money, can easily re-sign Wood now and didn't even bother with pointless Drummond extension talks. It's a clear win for them in my book.

I still don't think it's a bad move. That team is desperate to be better. They really want to get in the playoffs and getting some guys who can play will help. And they gave up only a 2nd for him. I think he'll be good for them this year.

My 2c on Drummond is he's basically the most obsolete player in all the NBA. I'd rather have the "old-school PF." Cause IMO, most old-school PFs can slide to C. The worst are the slow-footed, big centers who can't space (or worse yet, hit FTs). Like RoLo. In 15-20 mpg increments, they can still control the glass and draw fouls in the paint. But paying more than the MLE for that production? No thanks.

At least Capella, Whiteside and Jordan could run the floor really quickly at one point, and they had bounce that put them well over the rim. That's what Wiseman is going for, with maybe a jump-shot. More appealing to me than Drummond.

Hey, even Lopez is getting with the program. He took 105 threes last season (!!!) and, even more incredibly, made 33%. Just like that, RoLo has probably extended his career. There are absolutely no signs of Drummond being able to do that.

(By the way, ignoring RoLo's nascent outside shooting ability in Chicago is another nail in Boylen's professional coffin. Just think of the extra dimension it would have added to the offense.)

As for Drummond's best skill, rebounding... just not worth as much as it used to be. Stats say that the correlation between winning the rebounding battle and winning the game just keeps dropping in the NBA. At the same time, 3pt shooting correlates more and more with winning. It's just a fact that Drummond is outdated. Can't shoot FTs, can't space, can't even defend on the perimeter when more skilled centers drag him out there.

Let's not cling to the past, people.

[kodo]

At least Drummond was playable, people forget that the original foundation the Piston's rebuild was Greg Monroe. Detroit is a great example of what happens when building a team from non-playmaking big men.

And the Bulls started their rebuild off with Lauri and Wendell.

[ZOMG]

At least Drummond was playable, people forget that the original foundation the Piston's rebuild was Greg Monroe. Detroit is a great example of what happens when building a team from non-playmaking big men.

And the Bulls started their rebuild off with Lauri and Wendell.

Let's not twist history. Markkanen came in as a shooter/scorer, not a "big man". And in his 2nd year, he averaged close to 20ppg in the NBA. That's a scorer. NOBODY thought the Bulls were getting a traditional center or even a traditional 90's PF.

When Sean Miller talked about Lauri at Arizona, he never considered him a "big man" even in college. Markkanen had a green light from all over the court.

A shooter/scorer is the most important role in the NBA these days, in case anyone missed it. That's also why the Bulls won't trade Lauri.

As for Wendell... don't ask me why he was drafted. One of the more perplexing decisions of recent years. You should never touch non-shooters, you'll only end up regretting it. Whatever imaginary value they had at the drafting stage disappears quickly once the real games start.

[MGB8]

Part of the hype on Wiseman is assuming he can shoot. He didn't show it in his few games in college, but neither did KAT or AD. In college if you are an athletic 7' 1" guy, your coach wants you near the rim period.

But it's just an optimistic look on Wiseman, there's obviously little proof he can be a NBA shooter.

Wiseman has good form and a pretty good FT percentage. He's doesn't have a red flag on shooting coming in like Drummond did, or like an Okoro has. That doesn't mean that he'll be a big time shooter, but Drummond is a liability on that end (and at the FT line). By the way, so is $15M+/year Capella.

[PhilLeotardo]

At least Drummond was playable, people forget that the original foundation the Piston's rebuild was Greg Monroe. Detroit is a great example of what happens when building a team from non-playmaking big men.

And the Bulls started their rebuild off with Lauri and Wendell.

Let's not twist history. Markkanen came in as a shooter/scorer, not a "big man". And in his 2nd year, he averaged close to 20ppg in the NBA. That's a scorer. NOBODY thought the Bulls were getting a traditional center or even a traditional 90's PF.

When Sean Miller talked about Lauri at Arizona, he never considered him a "big man" even in college. Markkanen had a green light from all over the court.

A shooter/scorer is the most important role in the NBA these days, in case anyone missed it. That's also why the Bulls won't trade Lauri.

As for Wendell... don't ask me why he was drafted. One of the more perplexing decisions of recent years. You should never touch non-shooters, you'll only end up regretting it. Whatever imaginary value they had at the drafting stage disappears quickly once the real games start.

WCJ was selected because the world told PaxGar to draft him. That was the universally agreed upon BPA of that draft at 7. Anyone who was actually doing their HW on what was one of the deepest & most stellar draft classes of all time, knew that SGA was the guy to take at 7. He was right there for the taking

And for the record, I still think WCJ could pan out, and he *can* shoot. Let’s not make it out like he’s a Drummond. He’s actually a very good playmaker & has good shooting form. He’s been hurt with freak thumb & foot injuries. Those linger & completely take a player off his game.

[TheStig]

At least Drummond was playable, people forget that the original foundation the Piston's rebuild was Greg Monroe. Detroit is a great example of what happens when building a team from non-playmaking big men.

And the Bulls started their rebuild off with Lauri and Wendell.

Let's not twist history. Markkanen came in as a shooter/scorer, not a "big man". And in his 2nd year, he averaged close to 20ppg in the NBA. That's a scorer. NOBODY thought the Bulls were getting a traditional center or even a traditional 90's PF.

When Sean Miller talked about Lauri at Arizona, he never considered him a "big man" even in college. Markkanen had a green light from all over the court.

A shooter/scorer is the most important role in the NBA these days, in case anyone missed it. That's also why the Bulls won't trade Lauri.

As for Wendell... don't ask me why he was drafted. One of the more perplexing decisions of recent years. You should never touch non-shooters, you'll only end up regretting it. Whatever imaginary value they had at the drafting stage disappears quickly once the real games start.

WCJ was selected because the world told PaxGar to draft him. That was the universally agreed upon BPA of that draft at 7. Anyone who was actually doing their HW on what was one of the deepest & most stellar draft classes of all time, knew that SGA was the guy to take at 7. He was right there for the taking

And for the record, I still think WCJ could pan out, and he *can* shoot. Let’s not make it out like he’s a Drummond. He’s actually a very good playmaker & has good shooting form. He’s been hurt with freak thumb & foot injuries. Those linger & completely take a player off his game.

But he doesn't want to shoot. He wants to be a post pf like back in the day. If he embraced his ability to be a poor mans Hortford he'd be a great pick. But he doesn't want to shoot the 3 and commits dumb fouls. The only thing holding back WC is WC. He's truly disappointing for that reason. I hope Billy sticks him in the corner and doesn't let him leave practice till he hits 100 3's a day.

[PaKii94]

Let's not twist history. Markkanen came in as a shooter/scorer, not a "big man". And in his 2nd year, he averaged close to 20ppg in the NBA. That's a scorer. NOBODY thought the Bulls were getting a traditional center or even a traditional 90's PF.

When Sean Miller talked about Lauri at Arizona, he never considered him a "big man" even in college. Markkanen had a green light from all over the court.

A shooter/scorer is the most important role in the NBA these days, in case anyone missed it. That's also why the Bulls won't trade Lauri.

As for Wendell... don't ask me why he was drafted. One of the more perplexing decisions of recent years. You should never touch non-shooters, you'll only end up regretting it. Whatever imaginary value they had at the drafting stage disappears quickly once the real games start.

WCJ was selected because the world told PaxGar to draft him. That was the universally agreed upon BPA of that draft at 7. Anyone who was actually doing their HW on what was one of the deepest & most stellar draft classes of all time, knew that SGA was the guy to take at 7. He was right there for the taking

And for the record, I still think WCJ could pan out, and he *can* shoot. Let’s not make it out like he’s a Drummond. He’s actually a very good playmaker & has good shooting form. He’s been hurt with freak thumb & foot injuries. Those linger & completely take a player off his game.

But he doesn't want to shoot. He wants to be a post pf like back in the day. If he embraced his ability to be a poor mans Hortford he'd be a great pick. But he doesn't want to shoot the 3 and commits dumb fouls. The only thing holding back WC is WC. He's truly disappointing for that reason. I hope Billy sticks him in the corner and doesn't let him leave practice till he hits 100 3's a day.

I hate this thought process. Maybe.... Just maybe... He was told his role in the Boylen system was garbagetime rebounding bigman?

Same argument with Lauri. "He didn't want to be aggressive. He was okay with shooting jumpers. He didn't go to the post often enough."

Just maybe Lauri was relegated to a spacer perimeter role?

When 80% of the roster doesn't know their role and look out of place and underachieve, maybe it's the system put into place? Because by all accounts all the players on the roster right now are clean nose hard workers who are willing to do what they are asked. And they were pretty much asked to be bad.


I think when WCJ made the comments that he wants to play PF, I think he meant PF schemes on the offensive end i.e. shooting and playmaking. On the opposite side, Lauri said multiple times he wants to be more than a shooter/spacer and wants to show it.

[TheStig]

WCJ was selected because the world told PaxGar to draft him. That was the universally agreed upon BPA of that draft at 7. Anyone who was actually doing their HW on what was one of the deepest & most stellar draft classes of all time, knew that SGA was the guy to take at 7. He was right there for the taking

And for the record, I still think WCJ could pan out, and he *can* shoot. Let’s not make it out like he’s a Drummond. He’s actually a very good playmaker & has good shooting form. He’s been hurt with freak thumb & foot injuries. Those linger & completely take a player off his game.

But he doesn't want to shoot. He wants to be a post pf like back in the day. If he embraced his ability to be a poor mans Hortford he'd be a great pick. But he doesn't want to shoot the 3 and commits dumb fouls. The only thing holding back WC is WC. He's truly disappointing for that reason. I hope Billy sticks him in the corner and doesn't let him leave practice till he hits 100 3's a day.

I hate this thought process. Maybe.... Just maybe... He was told his role in the Boylen system was garbagetime rebounding bigman?

Same argument with Lauri. "He didn't want to be aggressive. He was okay with shooting jumpers. He didn't go to the post often enough."

Just maybe Lauri was relegated to a spacer perimeter role?

When 80% of the roster doesn't know their role and look out of place and underachieve, maybe it's the system put into place? Because by all accounts all the players on the roster right now are clean nose hard workers who are willing to do what they are asked. And they were pretty much asked to be bad.


I think when WCJ made the comments that he wants to play PF, I think he meant PF schemes on the offensive end i.e. shooting and playmaking. On the opposite side, Lauri said multiple times he wants to be more than a shooter/spacer and wants to show it.

Perhaps it was Boylen's offensive scheme. I think that's a bit of a cop out. It is more gaurdcentric but they did have opportunities as well.

I don't think he wants to bang with the C's. I hope I'm wrong. He just strikes me as a poor mans Taj. Not even trying to play a modern game. We shall see. I'm loosing faith.

[Jcool0]

Read on Twitter

[MrSparkle]

At least Drummond was playable, people forget that the original foundation the Piston's rebuild was Greg Monroe. Detroit is a great example of what happens when building a team from non-playmaking big men.

And the Bulls started their rebuild off with Lauri and Wendell.

Let's not twist history. Markkanen came in as a shooter/scorer, not a "big man". And in his 2nd year, he averaged close to 20ppg in the NBA. That's a scorer. NOBODY thought the Bulls were getting a traditional center or even a traditional 90's PF.

When Sean Miller talked about Lauri at Arizona, he never considered him a "big man" even in college. Markkanen had a green light from all over the court.

A shooter/scorer is the most important role in the NBA these days, in case anyone missed it. That's also why the Bulls won't trade Lauri.

As for Wendell... don't ask me why he was drafted. One of the more perplexing decisions of recent years. You should never touch non-shooters, you'll only end up regretting it. Whatever imaginary value they had at the drafting stage disappears quickly once the real games start.

Well, he was/is a shooting big man.

He is nowhere near the physical profile of a wing (in terms of speed and finesse). After watching the Euro tourney, I was excited because it looked like we got a higher-IQ, more rounded replacement for Niko and Bobby. How do you watch this and not consider him a high-post big man? Almost every play starts with his back to the rim, besides for his 3Ps. Any chance that making him a spot-up shooter like Bruce Bowen was what sent his game to the complete pits? I can't explain why his post-game seems to have gotten worse each year (maybe his back and hips are indeed messed up).

Watch on YouTube

;t=22s

[kodo]

I hope Stan and the Pels do well next season, I think he's a great coach. A little surprised he went with a rebuilding team but hard to pass up the chance to coach Zion.

[MrFortune3]

I hope Stan and the Pels do well next season, I think he's a great coach. A little surprised he went with a rebuilding team but hard to pass up the chance to coach Zion.

It's a team that's loaded with talent though. JJ and Jrue are solid or better vets, Zion and Ingram are going to be an emerging duo, Ball is improving and that says nothing of Hayes, Hart, NAW and etc. Then you have a top 14 pick to add to the fold.

[BullsFTW]

At least Drummond was playable, people forget that the original foundation the Piston's rebuild was Greg Monroe. Detroit is a great example of what happens when building a team from non-playmaking big men.

And the Bulls started their rebuild off with Lauri and Wendell.

Let's not twist history. Markkanen came in as a shooter/scorer, not a "big man". And in his 2nd year, he averaged close to 20ppg in the NBA. That's a scorer. NOBODY thought the Bulls were getting a traditional center or even a traditional 90's PF.

When Sean Miller talked about Lauri at Arizona, he never considered him a "big man" even in college. Markkanen had a green light from all over the court.

A shooter/scorer is the most important role in the NBA these days, in case anyone missed it. That's also why the Bulls won't trade Lauri.

As for Wendell... don't ask me why he was drafted. One of the more perplexing decisions of recent years. You should never touch non-shooters, you'll only end up regretting it. Whatever imaginary value they had at the drafting stage disappears quickly once the real games start.

WCJ was selected because the world told PaxGar to draft him. That was the universally agreed upon BPA of that draft at 7. Anyone who was actually doing their HW on what was one of the deepest & most stellar draft classes of all time, knew that SGA was the guy to take at 7. He was right there for the taking

And for the record, I still think WCJ could pan out, and he *can* shoot. Let’s not make it out like he’s a Drummond. He’s actually a very good playmaker & has good shooting form. He’s been hurt with freak thumb & foot injuries. Those linger & completely take a player off his game.

I would’ve traded Lauri + #7 to SAC for #2. Not sure if the Kings would’ve accepted, but the Bulls should’ve went hard for Luka. I just knew he was going to be really good.

[Chi town]

Let's not twist history. Markkanen came in as a shooter/scorer, not a "big man". And in his 2nd year, he averaged close to 20ppg in the NBA. That's a scorer. NOBODY thought the Bulls were getting a traditional center or even a traditional 90's PF.

When Sean Miller talked about Lauri at Arizona, he never considered him a "big man" even in college. Markkanen had a green light from all over the court.

A shooter/scorer is the most important role in the NBA these days, in case anyone missed it. That's also why the Bulls won't trade Lauri.

As for Wendell... don't ask me why he was drafted. One of the more perplexing decisions of recent years. You should never touch non-shooters, you'll only end up regretting it. Whatever imaginary value they had at the drafting stage disappears quickly once the real games start.

WCJ was selected because the world told PaxGar to draft him. That was the universally agreed upon BPA of that draft at 7. Anyone who was actually doing their HW on what was one of the deepest & most stellar draft classes of all time, knew that SGA was the guy to take at 7. He was right there for the taking

And for the record, I still think WCJ could pan out, and he *can* shoot. Let’s not make it out like he’s a Drummond. He’s actually a very good playmaker & has good shooting form. He’s been hurt with freak thumb & foot injuries. Those linger & completely take a player off his game.

I would’ve traded Lauri + #7 to SAC for #2. Not sure if the Kings would’ve accepted, but the Bulls should’ve went hard for Luka. I just knew he was going to be really good.

That was the trade that could have gotten it done! Back when everyone thought Lauri was the future.

[BullsFTW]

WCJ was selected because the world told PaxGar to draft him. That was the universally agreed upon BPA of that draft at 7. Anyone who was actually doing their HW on what was one of the deepest & most stellar draft classes of all time, knew that SGA was the guy to take at 7. He was right there for the taking

And for the record, I still think WCJ could pan out, and he *can* shoot. Let’s not make it out like he’s a Drummond. He’s actually a very good playmaker & has good shooting form. He’s been hurt with freak thumb & foot injuries. Those linger & completely take a player off his game.

I would’ve traded Lauri + #7 to SAC for #2. Not sure if the Kings would’ve accepted, but the Bulls should’ve went hard for Luka. I just knew he was going to be really good.

That was the trade that could have gotten it done! Back when everyone thought Lauri was the future.

Unfortunately, AKME was two years too late for that draft.