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If you were the FO, what would you do with the #4 pick?

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What would you do with the #4 pick?

1-trade up to get one of the top 3 (using Lavine, Lauri or Carter)
8
11%
2-trade down to pick up multiple assets (example-to NY for the #8 and the 2021 Dallas pick)
20
27%
3-trade the pick for an established player (could involve one of our young core)
6
8%
4-Pick Deni
17
23%
5-Pick Hayes
13
18%
6-Pick Obi
1
1%
7-Pick Okongwu
0
No votes
8-Pick Haliburton
3
4%
9-Pick Okoro
1
1%
10-other
4
5%
 
Total votes: 73

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Re: If you were the FO, what would you do with the #4 pick? 

Post#41 » by PhilLeotardo » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:29 am

TeamMan wrote:
PhilLeotardo wrote:
Mech Engineer wrote:This is a crapshoot and if there is somebody who looks like a younger version of Jamal Murray, draft him. The Bulls need a lot of such players. Don't draft a big who can't shoot regardless of their other skills.


The bulls already have the younger version of Murray on their team

What the Bulls need are 6’7+ Swiss Army knife wing players. 3&D guys

The good news is that there are lot of then in this draft.

The Bulls could actually trade down and still get a good one.


Yikes. There are? This draft is infamous for *not* having many quality wings. The 2021 draft is the one that is loaded with high end wing talent.
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Re: If you were the FO, what would you do with the #4 pick? 

Post#42 » by TeamMan » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:37 am

PhilLeotardo wrote:
TeamMan wrote:
PhilLeotardo wrote:
The bulls already have the younger version of Murray on their team

What the Bulls need are 6’7+ Swiss Army knife wing players. 3&D guys

The good news is that there are lot of then in this draft.

The Bulls could actually trade down and still get a good one.


Yikes. There are? This draft is infamous for *not* having many quality wings. The 2021 draft is the one that is loaded with high end wing talent.

Just to be clear, my understanding of a "wing" player is one that does not play either center or PF.

So, let's go down the list of wings (that I got from nbadraft.com) that are 9 of in the top 14 players ...

- Anthony Edwards
- LaMelo Ball
- Killian Hayes
- Deni Avdija
- Tyrese Haliburton
- Devin Vassell
- Isaac Okoro
- Cole Anthony
- Aaron Nesmith
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Re: If you were the FO, what would you do with the #4 pick? 

Post#43 » by dougthonus » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:42 pm

TeamMan wrote:Just to be clear, my understanding of a "wing" player is one that does not play either center or PF.

So, let's go down the list of wings (that I got from nbadraft.com) that are 9 of in the top 14 players ...

- Anthony Edwards
- LaMelo Ball
- Killian Hayes
- Deni Avdija
- Tyrese Haliburton
- Devin Vassell
- Isaac Okoro
- Cole Anthony
- Aaron Nesmith



I think most people define wing as SG/SF and exclude PG, PF, C. From that perspective:

If you view it that way then: Ball, Hayes, Haliburton, Cole Anthony aren't wings. Also questionable to me whether Deni ends up being a wing or more of a PF. It's really hard to see him defending a wing, so depending on your viewpoint, he doesn't really feel like a traditional wing either.

Granted, Hayes, Ball, and Haliburton all have decent height, so may be able to be viewed as wings, but their frames are very slight, and they'd get thrown around by NBA wing players right now. That said, that might change 2-3 years down the road with some NBA level weight training.

Edwards, Okoro, Nesmith are the guys I'd view as true wings that are in ESPNs lotto selections right now. However, this gets back to simply how you define things and a lot of semantics. I can absolutely see why you'd count those other guys as wings too.
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Re: If you were the FO, what would you do with the #4 pick? 

Post#44 » by Sinistar6 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:43 pm

Watching tape on the prospects I am leaning towards Obi. To me he seems to have a good ceiling AND a high floor. I love a lot of the other prospects in this draft and they could be superstars but they also could be role players.

Deni-lukalight or Tall version of T storanski
Wiseman-sample size and not modern NBA
Ball-magic Johnson or clothing designer?
Kill Hays- stud or pg version of Denzel Val
Obi- not many questions about what he can do, No Defense...

Obi is 6’9 with crazy bounce, can score from anywhere, and seems to be the most sure thing to me in this draft. I would talk about defense esp considering Our team but we take BPA so current team makeup should not matter.

Deni is my close second choice because a positionless big that can create is so valuable IMO, but is he this at the next level?
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Re: If you were the FO, what would you do with the #4 pick? 

Post#45 » by PhilLeotardo » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:47 pm

TeamMan wrote:
PhilLeotardo wrote:
TeamMan wrote:The good news is that there are lot of then in this draft.

The Bulls could actually trade down and still get a good one.


Yikes. There are? This draft is infamous for *not* having many quality wings. The 2021 draft is the one that is loaded with high end wing talent.

Just to be clear, my understanding of a "wing" player is one that does not play either center or PF.

So, let's go down the list of wings (that I got from nbadraft.com) that are 9 of in the top 14 players ...

- Anthony Edwards
- LaMelo Ball
- Killian Hayes
- Deni Avdija
- Tyrese Haliburton
- Devin Vassell
- Isaac Okoro
- Cole Anthony
- Aaron Nesmith


Yeah basically all I see is Vassell (that intrigues me). Ball isn’t a 3&D guy & cant really do much. Edwards is like 6’5 (though I think he seems shorter) & Deni can’t shoot

Next year is the wing draft (and one of the greatest drafts of the modern era). This draft stinks
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Re: If you were the FO, what would you do with the #4 pick? 

Post#46 » by MrSparkle » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:32 pm

Well, I'm big on wings but I don't think you let you that pre-conception blind you into drafting one. It's very common to end up with a Culver, Reddish, Knox or even worse a Josh Jackson. Let's not forget about Chandler Hutchinson and Snell.

That said, we really do need to fill the depth chart. I wouldn't draft Okoro just to address that need, but he would provide a vital piece missing from this team. No idea how he pans out; he's getting Jimmy B. comparisons but I don't think he's a secure dribbler. His foot-work, once he gets in the paint, is very nice; was checking out his Euro step and lay-up finishes. His cross-over and step-back look mediocre though. Good first step. Very hard figuring out how these guys work out in the NBA- if he had better height/wing-span he'd be a no-brainer, but he seems a long-shot star, probably a good glue guy who'll need development, like Hunter.

Otherwise, there really aren't wings in this draft. Nesmith, Vassell, Bey Bros look like solid RPs. TONS of defensive PFs and small guards. I'm settling on the reality that Deni is not going to cross-over any wings in the NBA, nor shoot the ball at an elite level to compensate/draw defenders closer. Are we okay with drafting a role-player at #4?

Becoming apparent that MIN and GSW want to trade down or out. Does this mean we bid with CHA for #1? If that puts us in position to get the BPA (with development, 2 years from now), I go for it. Again - in this draft, you especially can't let pre-conceived thoughts about successful types of players get in your head. You simply take the best combination of ball-handling, athleticism/speed/size and IQ. You can't underrate IQ; if a guy's idea of contributing to the game starts and ends with getting the ball and hoisting shots in isolation, then you're just compounding the problem we have with Zach and Lauri (Edwards, Wiseman). Similarly, a guy who wants to dribble 40% usage and look for assists (LaMelo, Hayes), that will also be a problem if they can't shoot like Luka, Harden, Lebron.

This is why I don't think it's absurd to consider Obi at #4 in this draft. His defense might suck, and the idea of another PF sounds miserable, but his combo of athleticism and offense on-and-off the ball looks radically more efficient and smooth than any other prospect above 6'3 in the draft. Am I wrong here? LaMelo is smooth but inefficient and not very fast; Edwards is raw; Poku is a wild-card; Kira is tiny.
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Re: If you were the FO, what would you do with the #4 pick? 

Post#47 » by PhilLeotardo » Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:09 pm

Culver, Reddish, & Knox could very well wind up being awesome in a few years time. What a ridiculous assertion. Especially Culver, he’s got tons of upside to mine. Who on earth writes off 19/20 year olds who were drafted into some of the most horribly toxic environments in the NBA?? Minn & NYC barely even had assembled coaching staffs, it was a glorified pick up league

Newsflash: no one would know who Tyler Herro was had he gotten drafted to NYC, because he’d have been absolutely awful
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Re: If you were the FO, what would you do with the #4 pick? 

Post#48 » by waffle » Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:12 pm

I said other

I sorta want them to get the chance to pick Wiseman, and I am not sure why.
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Re: If you were the FO, what would you do with the #4 pick? 

Post#49 » by jacoby1us » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:59 am

You draft Toppin, he is the best available prospect if Wiseman and Edwards are off the board. Lauri could be on the way out the door with another underperforming season.
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Re: If you were the FO, what would you do with the #4 pick? 

Post#50 » by DuckIII » Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:06 am

jacoby1us wrote:You draft Toppin, he is the best available prospect if Wiseman and Edwards are off the board. Lauri could be on the way out the door with another underperforming season.


Toppin is the only guy the Bulls could draft that would infuriate me.
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Re: If you were the FO, what would you do with the #4 pick? 

Post#51 » by erlim » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:33 am

I would try and package Lavine+Lauri+Coby+Pick for somebody like, I don't know, Jason Taytum.
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Re: If you were the FO, what would you do with the #4 pick? 

Post#52 » by The Chosen one » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:42 am

Yes to Toppin.
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Re: If you were the FO, what would you do with the #4 pick? 

Post#53 » by The Chosen one » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:47 am

I wouldn’t mind Deni but i just don’t see anything more than a solid role player. Will he ever be better than somebody like Porter? Guys like Wiseman, and Edwards and even Ball I could see being all stars. I can even see Toppin being an Allstar. Deni seems like a guy that will come in play his role and be a solid player. Nonthing wring with that but I want talent. If Deni shot has improved I would be more confident. I do not like wings that aren’t good shooters or good defenders.
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Re: If you were the FO, what would you do with the #4 pick? 

Post#54 » by ZOMG » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:55 am

The Chosen one wrote:Yes to Toppin.


A guy who'll be 23 in March, a grown ass man who made his name beating up on teenaged 6'8'' "centers" in the A-10.

A guy who's something like two years away from the "he is what he is" point in his career.

Where do I sign?
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Re: If you were the FO, what would you do with the #4 pick? 

Post#55 » by The Chosen one » Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:00 am

ZOMG wrote:
The Chosen one wrote:Yes to Toppin.


A guy who'll be 23 in March, a grown ass man who made his name beating up on teenaged 6'8'' "centers" in the A-10.

A guy who's something like two years away from the "he is what he is" point in his career.

Where do I sign?

Right on the dotted line. So what if he will be 23? Nobody is who they are at 25 years old. Players reach their prime at around 27-31 years old. Seen footage of him dominating NBA players a few times. He has shown the ability to improve dramatically each year, which shows his work ethic. I have a feeling he could bust Lauri ass right now if they met in camp.
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Re: If you were the FO, what would you do with the #4 pick? 

Post#56 » by PlayerUp » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:15 am

dougthonus wrote:One guy I looked at recently is Aaron Nesmith, and I liked him a lot. Not sure what's going on with his foot, and not sure on his creation ability, but this dude can just flat out shoot. I'd love to get him. Enough question marks about game that he isnt' worth the #4 in a traditional draft, but if we grabbed him I'd e cool with him. Legit size, over 50% from 3 on over 8 attempts a game.

Pre-Draft Analysis
Strengths
- Possesses an impressive physical profile at 6-foot-6, 213 pounds, with a near 7-foot wingspan. Above average athlete whose strength and length give him good upside to grow into on both ends of the floor.
- Arguably the best shooter in the draft. Made more than four 3-pointers per game and converted 50% of his attempts. Can hit jumpers in a variety of ways off movement, screens, pull-ups and difficult spot-ups with a hand in his face. Career 83% free throw shooter.
- Lauded for his work ethic and leadership.

Improvement areas
- Played only 14 games due to a stress fracture in his foot. Team played a weak out-of-conference schedule, limiting NBA scouts' opportunities to evaluate him against quality competition.
- Not a prolific shot-creator. Average ball handler who has plenty of room to improve his passing.
- Has good tools and versatility defensively but didn't always make a major impact. Gets beat off the dribble -- not the rangiest or most agile defender.

Projected role: Versatile, shooting wing


Well he played 32 games the previous season so we have more data on him than other prospects.

It's hard to tell how good he can be. I mean if you're shooting 50% from 3 you pretty much are destined to succeed in the NBA.
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Re: If you were the FO, what would you do with the #4 pick? 

Post#57 » by PlayerUp » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:28 am

jacoby1us wrote:You draft Toppin, he is the best available prospect if Wiseman and Edwards are off the board. Lauri could be on the way out the door with another underperforming season.


Toppin also played in the weakest conference among all lottery prospects. It's no wonder why the 23 year old dominated. His stats are inflated and his defensive and rebounding efficiency stats are weak. He will not be able to bully his way like that in the NBA. His 3PT shot needs alot of work still.
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Re: If you were the FO, what would you do with the #4 pick? 

Post#58 » by dougthonus » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:46 am

PlayerUp wrote:
dougthonus wrote:One guy I looked at recently is Aaron Nesmith, and I liked him a lot. Not sure what's going on with his foot, and not sure on his creation ability, but this dude can just flat out shoot. I'd love to get him. Enough question marks about game that he isnt' worth the #4 in a traditional draft, but if we grabbed him I'd e cool with him. Legit size, over 50% from 3 on over 8 attempts a game.

Pre-Draft Analysis
Strengths
- Possesses an impressive physical profile at 6-foot-6, 213 pounds, with a near 7-foot wingspan. Above average athlete whose strength and length give him good upside to grow into on both ends of the floor.
- Arguably the best shooter in the draft. Made more than four 3-pointers per game and converted 50% of his attempts. Can hit jumpers in a variety of ways off movement, screens, pull-ups and difficult spot-ups with a hand in his face. Career 83% free throw shooter.
- Lauded for his work ethic and leadership.

Improvement areas
- Played only 14 games due to a stress fracture in his foot. Team played a weak out-of-conference schedule, limiting NBA scouts' opportunities to evaluate him against quality competition.
- Not a prolific shot-creator. Average ball handler who has plenty of room to improve his passing.
- Has good tools and versatility defensively but didn't always make a major impact. Gets beat off the dribble -- not the rangiest or most agile defender.

Projected role: Versatile, shooting wing


Well he played 32 games the previous season so we have more data on him than other prospects.

It's hard to tell how good he can be. I mean if you're shooting 50% from 3 you pretty much are destined to succeed in the NBA.


He wasn't exceptional his freshman year, but then again, a lot of guys make huge strides between their freshman and sophomore years. The question is whether you believe he was on a hot start in his sophomore year or if he put in the work and was fundamentally a much better player.
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Re: If you were the FO, what would you do with the #4 pick? 

Post#59 » by PlayerUp » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:49 am

dougthonus wrote:
PlayerUp wrote:
dougthonus wrote:One guy I looked at recently is Aaron Nesmith, and I liked him a lot. Not sure what's going on with his foot, and not sure on his creation ability, but this dude can just flat out shoot. I'd love to get him. Enough question marks about game that he isnt' worth the #4 in a traditional draft, but if we grabbed him I'd e cool with him. Legit size, over 50% from 3 on over 8 attempts a game.



Well he played 32 games the previous season so we have more data on him than other prospects.

It's hard to tell how good he can be. I mean if you're shooting 50% from 3 you pretty much are destined to succeed in the NBA.


He wasn't exceptional his freshman year, but then again, a lot of guys make huge strides between their freshman and sophomore years. The question is whether you believe he was on a hot start in his sophomore year or if he put in the work and was fundamentally a much better player.


Shooting is the #1 thing I assume we'll be evaluating during predraft workouts. Should be more clear then if this was a fluke or if Nesmith is legit. I doubt he can hold those percentages.

Meanwhile all this talk of Hayes, Deni and Ball but they're all poor efficient shooters. Sure they maybe able to improve but as of now they have not been able to show that they can shoot efficiently in league play consistently.
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Re: If you were the FO, what would you do with the #4 pick? 

Post#60 » by dougthonus » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:06 pm

PlayerUp wrote:Shooting is the #1 thing I assume we'll be evaluating during predraft workouts. Should be more clear then if this was a fluke or if Nesmith is legit. I doubt he can hold those percentages.


He was an 82.5% free throw shooter which means he's probably a legit shooter. He also took a good amount of threes coming off back screens and movement and not just stand still threes, so I think he'll be good for sure, the question is whether he's really elite relative to other guys in this class or just really good and had an exceptional run.

If he's not really great then he's a lot less intriguing.

Meanwhile all this talk of Hayes, Deni and Ball but they're all poor efficient shooters. Sure they maybe able to improve but as of now they have not been able to show that they can shoot efficiently in league play consistently.


The thing I will say about Deni is coming out post COVID he shot 39% from three if I'm not mistaken. Deni's shot looks smooth to me, he just needs reps. LaMelo's shot is totally broke. I don't know how any prospect gets this far with that form. I don't know how his dad hot housed his kids for basketball for so many years and let them all develop such bad shooting habits, its ridiculous. A jr high coach would literally fix these things. Hayes is somewhere in the middle to me. I think his mechanics are worse than Deni's and better than Ball's.

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