Had Derrick Rose never tore ACL in 2012 ...

[synthdogg]

Tough to say for sure. Miami would probably still be favored in the ECF, though it would be much closer than 2011. Asik was healthy, Hamilton was a big upgrade, and Rose was smarter. A rookie Butler off the bench would have been thrown in to guard Lebron and Wade.
I don't think the Thunder were a good match up against Chicago. Interestingly enough, a lot of 2k simulations had the Bulls winning it all had Rose stayed healthy.

Even at full health, I don't think the 2012 Bulls beat the Heat, but it would have been fun to watch.

As it was, even if Rose did remain healthy...Noah was not. That ankle sprain in the first round was rough, and when he tried to come back and play on it he was getting outplayed/outrebounded by Iguodala. Noah was integral to that 2012 team and with him hobbled I don't see any chance the Bulls would have given the Heat much of a problem.

[Clint Eastwood]

Had i grown to 6’9 in high school....

[transplant]

Bulls win a title. Prove me wrong.

[Butler4thewin]

man i still wake up in the mornings and say something along the lines of rose was the best and then get sad actually i did this 2 nights ago ......d rose to me would of beat lebron atleast once or twice during the titles hes won and honestly that year i feel we had a shot but would of lost to the heat but like someone else said the year we got gasol plus butler becoming a legitimate 2 way player we would have easily won 2 titles with those 3 guys all healthy no problem

[weneeda2guard]

It would have depended on how garpax would have continued to build the roster. Because as it was currently constructed with rip Hamilton as the reinforcements to help the bulls with the big 3 in Miami who were much deeper and 1 year under they belt I seriously doubt the bulls overcome that heat team.

Now once lebron goes back to Cleveland if jimmy emerges and maybe another star joins rose I could see a lone title delivered by rose. But if garpax would have just continued adding mediocre additions we would have continued to lose.

[weneeda2guard]

I think we were allot further away than we believed at the time. I see 14-15 and 16-17 as possible windows to make the finals with Rose and Jimmy. We would have been obliterated by the Warriors both times however.

The team with durant i agree we not getting past them

But the igudola Harrison Barnes team, I think the bulls could have beat them. Rose was a match up night mare for curry. I also think at that time if we would continued making the playoffs we would have been the more experienced team.

[KissedByaRose1]

If he doesn’t go down the Bulls absolutely had a shot I believe. Would go as far to say that it was 50/50 entering that series.

Remember -Bosh got hurt those playoffs and wasn’t 100% and might have even missed a game or two. That rickety, old Celtics team took the Heat to 7 games and Lebron had to go super human in one of them. Was only one game against a bad 76ers team but we just looked awesome and like Rose finally was ready for a playoff run. Didn’t work out for a variety in another timeline the Bulls might have had a prime Rose/Butler to carry us for a decade to battle Lebron and whatever superteam he ran off to make next. Oh what could have been.

[2018C3]

It would have increased the window, but I don't think Rose was enough to get over the top.

Even in his MVP year I don't think he was more valuable then Lebron, and if a trade was offered we would have been stupid to pass it up.

Rose was a very nice player in his prime, but no where close to being being one of the bests ever. In the early days Westbrook was always a few steps behind, but within reach. And Lebron was always a clear step ahead. Lebron should have got it, but Derrick was the good story.

I remember after he won MVP, some people here were saying he was the 2nd best bull ever, and should be placed higher then Pippen. I just laughed at those comments.

In order to be placed at that level you have to be a two way player, which Rose never was.

From the age of 26 until 32 Pippen averaged 20.24 points a game, and scoring was not even what he was known for. His best qualities were defense. It surprised me how soon younger "Rose" fans forgot.

If Rose stayed healthy, I think we may have been able to sneak in one within the Thibs era if everything worked as planned.

In my life time the best bulls players I have seen have been MJ, Pippen, Butler, Rose and that in that order. This is not retrospect either, I have made multiple posts in the past that have placed Jimmy over Rose. Thibs offenses were geared towards scoring point guards, and I think that was by design hoping Derrick would come back and dominate in that spot.

[dice]

This team was never going to beat Miami. The team really should had done the Luol and Noah trade for Carmelo Anthony

son of a...

that would NOT have made the team better (it surely would have made it less likable, though). i truly cannot believe that anybody still thinks that carmelo anthony was a winner. really good ISO scorer when that was more valuable to a team, but not a winner. he was a rich man's zach lavine, excepting that he reached that status by age 21 and never got much better

[dice]

How often does this topic pop up?

Why do Bulls fans torture themselves with this what if?

sure beats torturing ourselves by watching the current model and asking the same question in a forward-looking manner

[dice]

We could have made the finals this year with an older Rose who never tore his ACL and a prime Jimmy Butler

interesting point, but we would have maxed out derrick again and he would have been in the middle of that deal this past season. not sure we could have put the right pieces around those two w/o hitting on a string of draft picks or ring chasers on discounts

[dice]

Tough to say for sure. Miami would probably still be favored in the ECF, though it would be much closer than 2011. Asik was healthy, Hamilton was a big upgrade, and Rose was smarter. A rookie Butler off the bench would have been thrown in to guard Lebron and Wade.

rip hamilton was worse here than bogans...on both ends of the floor. and garpax should have seen that one a mile away. dumars did, just as he did with ben wallace

[dice]

I don't think we would have had a chance from '14 and beyond, the 3-ball era. Thibs' defense was hardcore ice, which concedes the 3 point shot to protect the rim at all costs. 2014 was the year Draymond scored 31 against us on 7/13 shooting from 3 because by design, we left him open at the 3 point line as our bigs were positioned near the paint.

bulls in 3 pt % against under thibs:

2011 #1
2012 #3
2013 #5
2014 #8
2015 #3

in boston as their effective defensive coordinator they were #1, #5 and #4 against the 3 pt shot

and in minnesota, despite having consistently terrible defensive teams, they weren't consistently terrible against the 3pt shot

so i find it hard to believe that thibs leaves GOOD 3pt shooters open by design

[TheStig]

I don't really think that was a really strong title team with Rose. They weren't the Heat or the Warriors or Spurs. But I do think they break through and get it done in 2015. The Warriors weren't at their peak and Love was injured early and irving in the ECF. Our front court was really deep, Jimmy was entering his own and a full healthy Rose puts them over the top.

[Mech Engineer]

I don't really think that was a really strong title team with Rose. They weren't the Heat or the Warriors or Spurs. But I do think they break through and get it done in 2015. The Warriors weren't at their peak and Love was injured early and irving in the ECF. Our front court was really deep, Jimmy was entering his own and a full healthy Rose puts them over the top.

Yes..that team had 2 playmakers/shot creators. That's pretty important in the playoffs. The 2012 team never had the offensive creativity other than Thibs scheming or Rose creating. Rip was ridimg his Detroit achievement and was done/never was the 2nd creator. The Heat always had Lebron and Wade.

The Bulls always would have been a tough out and you never know how injuries play out. Wade would be more banged up defending a healthy Bulls team.

[Dez]

How often does this topic pop up?

Why do Bulls fans torture themselves with this what if?

sure beats torturing ourselves by watching the current model and asking the same question in a forward-looking manner

Not everyone shares the same doom and gloom outlook on the Bulls future.

[Senor Chang]

We could have made the finals this year with an older Rose who never tore his ACL and a prime Jimmy Butler

interesting point, but we would have maxed out derrick again and he would have been in the middle of that deal this past season. not sure we could have put the right pieces around those two w/o hitting on a string of draft picks or ring chasers on discounts

I think in an alternate universe where Derrick never tears his acl he could have aged a bit more gracefully and still be able to play at an elite level for spurts in the playoffs. I could easily see a couple ring chasers or key trades that would put us in a position to contend for a finals appearance. Maybe Niko is still here in his ideal role as 3rd/4th scorer.

[RedBulls23]

In 2012, Miami was probably at their peak, we weren't going to win. In 2014 when we had a Jimmy Butler whom just broke out and a superstar in Derrick Rose and Wade/Bosh started falling off, we would have likely gotten past MIami and the question is whether we could have toppled a fairly elite spurs team.

People say that 2012 team still doesn't beat Miami, but an old Celtics team past their prime took Miami to 7 games. I definitely would have liked their odds to get to the finals with a healthy Rose and Noah considering they were just better than the Celtics.

Just to note, Jimmy broke out after LeBron left Miami. It was the year they played the LeBron cavs team in the playoffs and lost in 6. Thibs final year. I do think the Bulls with a fully healthy Drose gets past that Cavs team though (who were without Love and Kyrie was playing hurt). Beating the Warriors is a different question. Bulls vs Warriors would be interssting with the contrasting style with their lead guards. Jimmy/Rose slashers and Curry/Klay shooters.

[The Explorer]

Tough to say for sure. Miami would probably still be favored in the ECF, though it would be much closer than 2011. Asik was healthy, Hamilton was a big upgrade, and Rose was smarter. A rookie Butler off the bench would have been thrown in to guard Lebron and Wade.

rip hamilton was worse here than bogans...on both ends of the floor. and garpax should have seen that one a mile away. dumars did, just as he did with ben wallace

That's a stretch. Bogans 2011 vs Hamilton 2012, you could say bogans was better as a man defender and a slightly bigger threat from 3, that's it. Hamilton was a better scorer, better off the ball, better at the free line, better rebounder, better passer, etc. You really think a guy contributing 4pts a game was better?

[Michael Jackson]

In 2012, Miami was probably at their peak, we weren't going to win. In 2014 when we had a Jimmy Butler whom just broke out and a superstar in Derrick Rose and Wade/Bosh started falling off, we would have likely gotten past MIami and the question is whether we could have toppled a fairly elite spurs team.

People say that 2012 team still doesn't beat Miami, but an old Celtics team past their prime took Miami to 7 games. I definitely would have liked their odds to get to the finals with a healthy Rose and Noah considering they were just better than the Celtics.

Just to note, Jimmy broke out after LeBron left Miami. It was the year they played the LeBron cavs team in the playoffs and lost in 6. Thibs final year. I do think the Bulls with a fully healthy Drose gets past that Cavs team though (who were without Love and Kyrie was playing hurt). Beating the Warriors is a different question. Bulls vs Warriors would be interssting with the contrasting style with their lead guards. Jimmy/Rose slashers and Curry/Klay shooters.

People are also saying that they beat the Heat but not OKC... which is somewhat tough to understand


Ultimately though Rose gets injured, I think that was inevitable. It was a concern before he got hurt because of how he played.

A fair question is if we kept Rose and Butler are we are contender this past year?