Ball vs. Edwards

[kodo]

I’ll leave this here...

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I do like Coach Nick so I'll have to take his word on some of this.

One thing I can't agree with is that his argument is that most of the NBA uses a dropback defense so that would given Ball plenty of room to put up a floater because the rollman defender will drop to the rim. That's absolutely not true, the Bulls were one of the last dropback defenses last year (and one of the worst overall defenses in the league because of it) and even we switched to hedging this season. It's very standard now to not allow ballhandlers open looks on the perimeter, and why the ballhandlers in the NBA that cause problems are off-the-dribble pull-up shooters like Trae or Murray or Booker. There are still guys who are primarily driving threats but they all come with stupid athleticism like Morant. The Westbrook/Wall style of point guarding is becoming more rare...and to this point hasn't actually won anything.

I do agree that like his brother, he can become a spot-up catch & shoot 3 point shooter. But being a non-threat off the bounce limits his ceiling quite a bit as your best player, so on a must-score play Ball is hanging out in the corner waiting for a kickout 3 from someone else making the play.

All this is mitigated by this being a weak draft, everyone else has serious question marks as well. What probably was most interesting was that Coach Nick thought his off-ball defensive awareness was very good, that his body language shouldn't be used to measure his defensive capability. We've seen that non-shooting PGs with great vision/passing and great defense can work; eg Rondo, Mavs era Kidd. But if you're missing 2 out of 3 (shooting, passing, defense) it's tough to win with that PG.

[HomoSapien]

Honest question, but does LaMelo Ball project to be a better pro than Lonzo? I wasn't high on Lonzo either, but he always seemed more intriguing to me and went second in a deeper draft (though he wouldn't be drafted so high in a redraft). I really just don't see LaMelo becoming a great pro.

[Hold That]

Honest question, but does LaMelo Ball project to be a better pro than Lonzo? I wasn't high on Lonzo either, but he always seemed more intriguing to me and went second in a deeper draft (though he wouldn't be drafted so high in a redraft). I really just don't see LaMelo becoming a great pro.

I feel like he’s Jamal Crawford in his early years,with better vision. Compared to Lonzo, Lamelo looks for his shot more.

[Mk0]

I don't know much about either player, but mother of god is Ball's jumper ugly.

That Coach Nick video helped. Thanks for posting that.

[samwana]

If Lamelo wasn't from the Ball family, he probably would be viewed as a late first early second round pick.
I'd take Edwards without thinking twice.

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[Andi Obst]

If Lamelo wasn't from the Ball family, he probably would be viewed as a late first early second round pick.

Oh boy...

Yes, people love the Ball family so much that LaMelo is projected to go top 5 on basically every single board out there. That has to be it. Everybody is just dumb.

[samwana]

If Lamelo wasn't from the Ball family, he probably would be viewed as a late first early second round pick.

Oh boy...

Yes, people love the Ball family so much that LaMelo is projected to go top 5 on basically every single board out there. That has to be it. Everybody is just dumb.

We'll see how it works out..

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[Andi Obst]

We'll see how it works out..

Sure, LaMelo might bust. That wouldn't make your claim that basically every person who puts out boards and mocks, from the top media guys like Schmitz to a draft Twitter account with a couple 100 followers, is so enamored with the Ball family that it completely changes their evaluation of LaMelo any less ridiculous.

[samwana]

We'll see how it works out..

Sure, LaMelo might bust. That wouldn't make your claim that basically every person who puts out boards and mocks, from the top media guys like Schmitz to a draft Twitter account with a couple 100 followers, is so enamored with the Ball family that it completely changes their evaluation of LaMelo any less ridiculous.

Lamelo has Media attention since a long time, he has been analyzed a long time, he's marketed for a long time, he is basically on everybody's radar because we've heard from him for years. His talent is getting overhyped imo.
I hope we stay far away from him.

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[dougthonus]

Honest question, but does LaMelo Ball project to be a better pro than Lonzo? I wasn't high on Lonzo either, but he always seemed more intriguing to me and went second in a deeper draft (though he wouldn't be drafted so high in a redraft). I really just don't see LaMelo becoming a great pro.

I feel like he’s Jamal Crawford in his early years,with better vision. Compared to Lonzo, Lamelo looks for his shot more.

Jamal Crawford always had a silky shot though and was no where near the court vision guy LaMelo is.

To me, he's Ricky Rubio.

[Leslie Forman]

Honest question, but does LaMelo Ball project to be a better pro than Lonzo? I wasn't high on Lonzo either, but he always seemed more intriguing to me and went second in a deeper draft (though he wouldn't be drafted so high in a redraft). I really just don't see LaMelo becoming a great pro.

I feel like he’s Jamal Crawford in his early years,with better vision. Compared to Lonzo, Lamelo looks for his shot more.

Jamal Crawford always had a silky shot though and was no where near the court vision guy LaMelo is.

To me, he's Ricky Rubio.

Without the defense, and even worse shooting.

He really doesn't project to ever be a strong off-the-dribble shooter. If he doesn't develop a really strong driving game, which is going to be tough with his so-so athleticism, he could be a straight up end-of-bench level bust.

[ZOMG]

I feel like he’s Jamal Crawford in his early years,with better vision. Compared to Lonzo, Lamelo looks for his shot more.

Jamal Crawford always had a silky shot though and was no where near the court vision guy LaMelo is.

To me, he's Ricky Rubio.

Without the defense, and even worse shooting.

He really doesn't project to ever be a strong off-the-dribble shooter. If he doesn't develop a really strong driving game, which is going to be tough with his so-so athleticism, he could be a straight up end-of-bench level bust.

People constantly forget what a pest Rubio was defensively when he came into the league. Defense was his calling card together with playmaking. Also, Ricky is one of those guys who's almost always the smartest guy on the floor. Knows all the plays, knows where everyone else should be at any give time. Remember, he'd lived in a pretty strict professional basketball environment since he was like 15.

For LaMelo, organized ball is like kryptonite. You can try to coach him but he mostly doesn't want to hear it. Both in Lithuania and Australia, he routinely ignored his coach and did what he wanted. He just wants to play pick up ball.

LaMelo is in for a rude awakening.

[dougthonus]

For LaMelo, organized ball is like kryptonite. You can try to coach him but he mostly doesn't want to hear it. Both in Lithuania and Australia, he routinely ignored his coach and did what he wanted. He just wants to play pick up ball.

LaMelo is in for a rude awakening.

A rude awakening is fine as long as he wakes up

[bledredwine]

Like choosing between the plague and cholera.

Haha

My thoughts exactly.

[Mk0]

I know nothing about College players, just posting this since its new

Watch on YouTube

[Hold That]

Honest question, but does LaMelo Ball project to be a better pro than Lonzo? I wasn't high on Lonzo either, but he always seemed more intriguing to me and went second in a deeper draft (though he wouldn't be drafted so high in a redraft). I really just don't see LaMelo becoming a great pro.

I feel like he’s Jamal Crawford in his early years,with better vision. Compared to Lonzo, Lamelo looks for his shot more.

Jamal Crawford always had a silky shot though and was no where near the court vision guy LaMelo is.

To me, he's Ricky Rubio.

I wanted to say Rubio but when you really think about it the only similarities they have is court vision and wirey 6’7 frames. Outside of those two things, they don’t play alike. Lamelo is definitely the better scorer and looks for his shot more than Rubio did at similar ages. I honestly feel like Rubio focused on setting up his teammates and defending. Lamelo is passing and scoring and outlet rebounding running fast breaks but don’t expect anything else.

His defense is so non existent that I feel like NBA coaches that aren’t known for defense will bench him early in the season when they see his effort on that end. He would have to prove he’s an offensive savant early on for him to stay on the floor, it’s that bad. I also expect for him to improve on that end, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he barely played for the first 2 months of his rookie season before he proves he can defend. I don’t see any coaches taking it lightly on him.

[dougthonus]

I wanted to say Rubio but when you really think about it the only similarities they have is court vision and wirey 6’7 frames. Outside of those two things, they don’t play alike. Lamelo is definitely the better scorer and looks for his shot more than Rubio did at similar ages. I honestly feel like Rubio focused on setting up his teammates and defending. Lamelo is passing and scoring and outlet rebounding running fast breaks but don’t expect anything else.

His defense is so non existent that I feel like NBA coaches that aren’t known for defense will bench him early in the season when they see his effort on that end. He would have to prove he’s an offensive savant early on for him to stay on the floor, it’s that bad. I also expect for him to improve on that end, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he barely played for the first 2 months of his rookie season before he proves he can defend. I don’t see any coaches taking it lightly on him.

Similarities to me are:
Frame
Athleticism
Court vision
Ball Handling

It really comes down to the court vision being such a rare attribute though that it makes me think of the comparison even though I agree with you on the differences.

[MGB8]

I wanted to say Rubio but when you really think about it the only similarities they have is court vision and wirey 6’7 frames. Outside of those two things, they don’t play alike. Lamelo is definitely the better scorer and looks for his shot more than Rubio did at similar ages. I honestly feel like Rubio focused on setting up his teammates and defending. Lamelo is passing and scoring and outlet rebounding running fast breaks but don’t expect anything else.

His defense is so non existent that I feel like NBA coaches that aren’t known for defense will bench him early in the season when they see his effort on that end. He would have to prove he’s an offensive savant early on for him to stay on the floor, it’s that bad. I also expect for him to improve on that end, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he barely played for the first 2 months of his rookie season before he proves he can defend. I don’t see any coaches taking it lightly on him.

Similarities to me are:
Frame
Athleticism
Court vision
Ball Handling

It really comes down to the court vision being such a rare attribute though that it makes me think of the comparison even though I agree with you on the differences.

This is a great conversation. Other folks have brought up "White Chocolate" Jason Williams - which has some ring of truth, at least if Ball doesn't develop much. Nate McMillan was initially basically a very large point guard who didn't shoot particularly efficiently.
But Ball's upside brings up other names - Magic (who was never much of a 3 point shooter); Oscar.....

So much turns on how the young man takes to coaching; how much stronger he can get; how much effort he is willing to put in on defense; and whether he can get that shot to a point where it works on the NBA level.

As for Rubio, Lonzo IMO is the better comp to him - assuming he continues to develop.

[Sinistar6]

I think he is being undervalued because he is a Ball. Lanzo’s NBA career seems to be a metric for LaMelo. I see a young 6’7 (still growing?) basketball player with pro ball skills and elite vision. Someone who will not be afraid of bright-lights or scared of the moment because they have been there before. My biggest fear for him is child-hood actor basketball burnout. Is the competition he was playing against as good as division 1?

[Dez]

I think he is being undervalued because he is a Ball. Lanzo’s NBA career seems to be a metric for LaMelo. I see a young 6’7 (still growing?) basketball player with pro ball skills and elite vision. Someone who will not be afraid of bright-lights or scared of the moment because they have been there before. My biggest fear for him is child-hood actor basketball burnout. Is the competition he was playing against as good as division 1?

He's not being undervalued because he's a Ball at all, people are laying out completely valid criticisms and red flags.

It's also silly to compare him and Lonzo because they are vastly different personalities, Lonzo has shown to be quiet and coachable while LaMelo has stated he doesn't need to rework the biggest flaw in his game which is his abomination of a shot.

Lonzo also has multiple level NBA skills, LaMelo has one.