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The Chicago Bulls select forward Patrick Williams #4 overall.

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Re: The Chicago Bulls select forward Patrick Williams #4 overall. 

Post#1421 » by dc » Tue Dec 1, 2020 1:14 am

BahamaBull wrote:I think he will be a 3 from day 1...he can also play some 4 for sure but judging from this latest vids I cant see why he cant play the 3.


As a non-Bulls fan who LIKES the Williams pick for the Bulls, you can't really put too much stock in these summer workout vids. Antonio Blakeney looked like an NBA starter in his summer vids playing in the same workouts/scrimmages as Chris Paul and Westbrook. In reality, the guy is a fringe NBA player.

A real NBA game is at a completely different level. That's when decision making and true feel for the game come into play. These vids shown are just a couple steps up from drills in terms of real basketball acuity and feel for the game. They don't tell much of a story when it comes to counter moves, understanding defensive assignments, screens, switching, etc....
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Re: The Chicago Bulls select forward Patrick Williams #4 overall. 

Post#1422 » by kulaz3000 » Tue Dec 1, 2020 1:18 am

dc wrote:
BahamaBull wrote:I think he will be a 3 from day 1...he can also play some 4 for sure but judging from this latest vids I cant see why he cant play the 3.


As a non-Bulls fan who LIKES the Williams pick for the Bulls, you can't really put too much stock in these summer workout vids. Antonio Blakeney looked like an NBA starter in his summer vids playing in the same workouts/scrimmages as Chris Paul and Westbrook. In reality, the guy is a fringe NBA player.

A real NBA game is at a completely different level. That's when decision making and true feel for the game come into play. These vids shown are just a couple steps up from drills in terms of real basketball acuity and feel for the game. They don't tell much of a story when it comes to counter moves, understanding defensive assignments, screens, switching, etc....


You're not wrong, as you can't translate the exact production from these workouts to actual NBA games - I believe the majority understand this. But what has excited us Bulls fans isn't the fact the he was seemingly scoring at will, but his ball handling, the ability to create off the dribble, the speed and agility he showed, these are things he either didn't show much of during his single college season, or there were concerns about.
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Re: The Chicago Bulls select forward Patrick Williams #4 overall. 

Post#1423 » by tedwilliams1999 » Tue Dec 1, 2020 1:19 am

dc wrote:
BahamaBull wrote:I think he will be a 3 from day 1...he can also play some 4 for sure but judging from this latest vids I cant see why he cant play the 3.


As a non-Bulls fan who LIKES the Williams pick for the Bulls, you can't really put too much stock in these summer workout vids. Antonio Blakeney looked like an NBA starter in his summer vids playing in the same workouts/scrimmages as Chris Paul and Westbrook. In reality, the guy is a fringe NBA player.

A real NBA game is at a completely different level. That's when decision making and true feel for the game come into play. These vids shown are just a couple steps up from drills in terms of real basketball acuity and feel for the game. They don't tell much of a story when it comes to counter moves, understanding defensive assignments, screens, switching, etc....


Agreed - the only thing I was able to glean from the videos was that offensively, Williams seems to prefer a perimeter style of play. Defensively, there's no way to tell if he'll be able to keep up with wings. In one of those plays where he actually got the block, he still opened up his hips and had to chase down the slower player. Those sorts of things indicate to me that he'll probably be better served as a 4 on defense. On offense, I've liked what I've seen so far though - he didn't really do any of that stuff at FSU.
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Re: The Chicago Bulls select forward Patrick Williams #4 overall. 

Post#1424 » by ChiCitySPORTS#1 » Tue Dec 1, 2020 7:48 pm

I like that he's playing on the perimeter. We would need him to be a wing, and not a tweener 3/4
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Re: The Chicago Bulls select forward Patrick Williams #4 overall. 

Post#1425 » by fleet » Tue Dec 1, 2020 7:53 pm

MrFortune3 wrote:
BahamaBull wrote:Jordan Maly on lockedon Bulls said its laughable to think some fans believe PatWill will be a 3...

I think he will be a 3 from day 1...he can also play some 4 for sure but judging from this latest vids I cant see why he cant play the 3.


People assume he will get bigger and lose quickness to guard the 3 spot.

Something to consider. Yet Ron Artest was thicker. And if Lu was quick enough, Pat can do it because he’s more nimble than Lu imo.
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Re: The Chicago Bulls select forward Patrick Williams #4 overall. 

Post#1426 » by R3AL1TY » Tue Dec 1, 2020 7:54 pm

I expect Williams' numbers to look similar to his college numbers his first season, then by his second season where he gets more playing time, we'll really get to see if his numbers can go up another level. He may even play like Hutchison, but better in the half court.
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Re: The Chicago Bulls select forward Patrick Williams #4 overall. 

Post#1427 » by Bullflip » Tue Dec 1, 2020 8:07 pm

I am excited about Williams. He has the potential to be the best defender on the team and be a good 3rd option scorer.
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Re: The Chicago Bulls select forward Patrick Williams #4 overall. 

Post#1428 » by Mindcrime » Tue Dec 1, 2020 8:13 pm



Skip to 2:12 , the first bust "analysis"
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Re: The Chicago Bulls select forward Patrick Williams #4 overall. 

Post#1429 » by thedarkstark » Tue Dec 1, 2020 8:27 pm

Mindcrime wrote:

Skip to 2:12 , the first bust "analysis"


Literally the worst take, "Trade up for Lamelo" lol. Also he didnt break anything down he was just like "he supposedly has potential but i dont think so"
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Re: The Chicago Bulls select forward Patrick Williams #4 overall. 

Post#1430 » by Bankshot » Tue Dec 1, 2020 8:31 pm

thedarkstark wrote:
Mindcrime wrote:

Skip to 2:12 , the first bust "analysis"


Literally the worst take, "Trade up for Lamelo" lol. Also he didnt break anything down he was just like "he supposedly has potential but i dont think so"


Lol some youtube dude....yes I am listening to him lol
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Re: The Chicago Bulls select forward Patrick Williams #4 overall. 

Post#1431 » by fleet » Tue Dec 1, 2020 8:31 pm

R3AL1TY wrote:I expect Williams' numbers to look similar to his college numbers his first season, then by his second season where he gets more playing time, we'll really get to see if his numbers can go up another level. He may even play like Hutchison, but better in the half court.

I don't see Huchison being in the same skills/ability conversation based on workout videos. And Huch was an older prospect

Brad Biggs wrote:Fields was in the bottom third of the league in too many key statistical metrics for the Bears to commit to the idea of trading down from the first pick for a bundle of future assets and then building around him.
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Re: The Chicago Bulls select forward Patrick Williams #4 overall. 

Post#1432 » by fleet » Tue Dec 1, 2020 8:42 pm

I don'know why David Griffin is saying this, tbd, but if a much bigger man like Zion can, Pat can. I'm not saying as well. Just the position.


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Re: The Chicago Bulls select forward Patrick Williams #4 overall. 

Post#1433 » by R3AL1TY » Tue Dec 1, 2020 9:05 pm

fleet wrote:
R3AL1TY wrote:I expect Williams' numbers to look similar to his college numbers his first season, then by his second season where he gets more playing time, we'll really get to see if his numbers can go up another level. He may even play like Hutchison, but better in the half court.

I don't see Huchison being in the same skills/ability conversation based on workout videos. And Huch was an older prospect


Hutch does well in transition, and PWill has couple highlights in college going downhill in transition too, so I'm sure he can bring that value too. Hutch plays solid defense and PWill looks like he will be a defender too. You can argue PWill is the better rebounder and shot blocker between the two. On offense, what separates them is PWill is more smoother and in control in the half court, especially with midrange shots.
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Re: The Chicago Bulls select forward Patrick Williams #4 overall. 

Post#1434 » by sco » Tue Dec 1, 2020 9:38 pm

R3AL1TY wrote:
fleet wrote:
R3AL1TY wrote:I expect Williams' numbers to look similar to his college numbers his first season, then by his second season where he gets more playing time, we'll really get to see if his numbers can go up another level. He may even play like Hutchison, but better in the half court.

I don't see Huchison being in the same skills/ability conversation based on workout videos. And Huch was an older prospect


Hutch does well in transition, and PWill has couple highlights in college going downhill in transition too, so I'm sure he can bring that value too. Hutch plays solid defense and PWill looks like he will be a defender too. You can argue PWill is the better rebounder and shot blocker between the two. On offense, what separates them is PWill is more smoother and in control in the half court, especially with midrange shots.

I like Hutch...he's injury prone and his attacking style doesn't help that much. In my most optimistic view of player improvement, a line-up of Coby, Zach, Hutch, PWill, WC could be our best line-up.
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Re: The Chicago Bulls select forward Patrick Williams #4 overall. 

Post#1435 » by navdeep_singh » Tue Dec 1, 2020 10:37 pm

sco wrote:
R3AL1TY wrote:
fleet wrote:I don't see Huchison being in the same skills/ability conversation based on workout videos. And Huch was an older prospect


Hutch does well in transition, and PWill has couple highlights in college going downhill in transition too, so I'm sure he can bring that value too. Hutch plays solid defense and PWill looks like he will be a defender too. You can argue PWill is the better rebounder and shot blocker between the two. On offense, what separates them is PWill is more smoother and in control in the half court, especially with midrange shots.

I like Hutch...he's injury prone and his attacking style doesn't help that much. In my most optimistic view of player improvement, a line-up of Coby, Zach, Hutch, PWill, WC could be our best line-up.



That’s a really interchanageable and dynamic Line up defensively. A lot of offensive uncertainty in the front court. But the 2 guards can hopefully light it up to make up for it. Kind of a lineup you want at the end of the game to make stops with quick, agile, strong and athletic players, all around.

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Re: The Chicago Bulls select forward Patrick Williams #4 overall. 

Post#1436 » by cjbulls » Tue Dec 1, 2020 11:42 pm

fleet wrote:I don'know why David Griffin is saying this, tbd, but if a much bigger man like Zion can, Pat can. I'm not saying as well. Just the position.


Read on Twitter


Zion is a once-in-a-generation athlete with basketball skills.
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Re: The Chicago Bulls select forward Patrick Williams #4 overall. 

Post#1437 » by fleet » Tue Dec 1, 2020 11:47 pm

cjbulls wrote:
fleet wrote:I don'know why David Griffin is saying this, tbd, but if a much bigger man like Zion can, Pat can. I'm not saying as well. Just the position.


Read on Twitter


Zion is a once-in-a-generation athlete with basketball skills.

Who might be 50 or more lbs heavier
Brad Biggs wrote:Fields was in the bottom third of the league in too many key statistical metrics for the Bears to commit to the idea of trading down from the first pick for a bundle of future assets and then building around him.
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Re: The Chicago Bulls select forward Patrick Williams #4 overall. 

Post#1438 » by Jello Biafra » Wed Dec 2, 2020 12:59 am

fleet wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:
BahamaBull wrote:Jordan Maly on lockedon Bulls said its laughable to think some fans believe PatWill will be a 3...

I think he will be a 3 from day 1...he can also play some 4 for sure but judging from this latest vids I cant see why he cant play the 3.


People assume he will get bigger and lose quickness to guard the 3 spot.

Something to consider. Yet Ron Artest was thicker. And if Lu was quick enough, Pat can do it because he’s more nimble than Lu imo.


So basically, all the pundits (Maly, Westerlund. Pearson et al) say that Pat is a 4 and only a 4 because he cant guard 3's. Why can't he guard 3's? The pundits say that its because he got burned on an island (usually by 1's if you check) on a handful of clips, and deduced that he has slow feet and poor lateral movement due to overdeveloped quads and a lack of bend in the hips causing him to turn his hips and run sideways instead of sliding his feet to stay in front of said 1's. Therefore, according to them, he cant guard NBA 3's.

OK. Fine. Pat is 6'7' with a 6'11" wingspan (if you are a hater) or 6'8" and up to a 7'1" wingspan (if you are a lover). The Bulls starting 3 (when mobile enough to play) is OPJ who is 6'8" with a 7'1" wingspan who is listed at his rookie weight of (*cough*) 198 lbs. Porter has had longstanding hip issues and more recently, stress fractures (*cough* Amare *cough*) which may or may not have been due to him being overweight depending on who leaked the story.

So who can 27 going on 40 OPJ guard that Pat can't?

A more important question is what 3's are going to torch him like he's Doug McDermott so that he can't play the 3? Lets look at the players listed as "small forwards" in the Eastern Conference.

Atlanta - Bogdan Bogdanovic, De'Andre Hunter
Boston - Jaylen Brown, Aaron Nesmith
Brooklyn - Joe Harris, Landry Shamet - I'll give you Durant who is listed as a 4.
Hornets - Heyward, Bridges
Cavs- Isaac Okoro , Kevin Porter
Detroit - Saddiq Bey, Sekou Doumbouya
Pacers- T.J. Warren, Justin Holiday
Heat- *Butler, Iguodala*
Bucks- Middleton, Connaughton
Knicks- Knox and god knows. I guess you could say Toppin.
Magic- Terrance Ross, James Ennis
Sixers- Thybulle, Robinson III, Seth Curry
Raptor- Anunobi, Norman Powell, Stanley Johnson
Wizards- Davis Bertans, Tony Brown Jr., Deni?

Poor lateral movement in my mind equates to blow by's in space. Of the 3's in the conference, who is blowing by him every time so you have to move him or take him off the court? Idk, maybe all of them cause I haven't seen Pat play one game in the NBA, but aside from the obvious players, the list is mostly meh and I think at a baseline given the athleticism he has shown on tape he should at least be as palatable guarding three's as OPJ. Conversely, I think he probably gets torched switching onto 2's at the same rate as OPJ. Therefore, in my mind, if Pat can't play the 3 than neither can OPJ. I like OPJ. I think he can play the 3. I also think we will see Pat play a lot of 3 this year regardless of what Cody Westerlund thinks and will find out whether or not he was right.
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Re: The Chicago Bulls select forward Patrick Williams #4 overall. 

Post#1439 » by cjbulls » Wed Dec 2, 2020 2:39 am

fleet wrote:
cjbulls wrote:
fleet wrote:I don'know why David Griffin is saying this, tbd, but if a much bigger man like Zion can, Pat can. I'm not saying as well. Just the position.


Read on Twitter


Zion is a once-in-a-generation athlete with basketball skills.

Who might be 50 or more lbs heavier


So was LeBron at one point. Doesn’t make any point for you.

You’re comparing an ultra elite athlete playing spot minutes to an above average athlete that you want to play the position full time. Stop pressing so hard to sell Patrick as a 3. The FSU guy is going to age out quick but he is young enough to possibly re-make himself in the NBA.
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Re: The Chicago Bulls select forward Patrick Williams #4 overall. 

Post#1440 » by cjbulls » Wed Dec 2, 2020 2:45 am

Jello Biafra wrote:
fleet wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:
People assume he will get bigger and lose quickness to guard the 3 spot.

Something to consider. Yet Ron Artest was thicker. And if Lu was quick enough, Pat can do it because he’s more nimble than Lu imo.


So basically, all the pundits (Maly, Westerlund. Pearson et al) say that Pat is a 4 and only a 4 because he cant guard 3's. Why can't he guard 3's? The pundits say that its because he got burned on an island (usually by 1's if you check) on a handful of clips, and deduced that he has slow feet and poor lateral movement due to overdeveloped quads and a lack of bend in the hips causing him to turn his hips and run sideways instead of sliding his feet to stay in front of said 1's. Therefore, according to them, he cant guard NBA 3's.

OK. Fine. Pat is 6'7' with a 6'11" wingspan (if you are a hater) or 6'8" and up to a 7'1" wingspan (if you are a lover). The Bulls starting 3 (when mobile enough to play) is OPJ who is 6'8" with a 7'1" wingspan who is listed at his rookie weight of (*cough*) 198 lbs. Porter has had longstanding hip issues and more recently, stress fractures (*cough* Amare *cough*) which may or may not have been due to him being overweight depending on who leaked the story.

So who can 27 going on 40 OPJ guard that Pat can't?

A more important question is what 3's are going to torch him like he's Doug McDermott so that he can't play the 3? Lets look at the players listed as "small forwards" in the Eastern Conference.

Atlanta - Bogdan Bogdanovic, De'Andre Hunter
Boston - Jaylen Brown, Aaron Nesmith
Brooklyn - Joe Harris, Landry Shamet - I'll give you Durant who is listed as a 4.
Hornets - Heyward, Bridges
Cavs- Isaac Okoro , Kevin Porter
Detroit - Saddiq Bey, Sekou Doumbouya
Pacers- T.J. Warren, Justin Holiday
Heat- *Butler, Iguodala*
Bucks- Middleton, Connaughton
Knicks- Knox and god knows. I guess you could say Toppin.
Magic- Terrance Ross, James Ennis
Sixers- Thybulle, Robinson III, Seth Curry
Raptor- Anunobi, Norman Powell, Stanley Johnson
Wizards- Davis Bertans, Tony Brown Jr., Deni?

Poor lateral movement in my mind equates to blow by's in space. Of the 3's in the conference, who is blowing by him every time so you have to move him or take him off the court? Idk, maybe all of them cause I haven't seen Pat play one game in the NBA, but aside from the obvious players, the list is mostly meh and I think at a baseline given the athleticism he has shown on tape he should at least be as palatable guarding three's as OPJ. Conversely, I think he probably gets torched switching onto 2's at the same rate as OPJ. Therefore, in my mind, if Pat can't play the 3 than neither can OPJ. I like OPJ. I think he can play the 3. I also think we will see Pat play a lot of 3 this year regardless of what Cody Westerlund thinks and will find out whether or not he was right.


It’s about offense more than defense. He needs to be quick enough to attack 3s. He doesn’t need elite quickness/shiftiness but he needs to get close to the basket to where he can outmuscle guys or pull up over them. Most of the 3s on that list appear athletic enough to stop him based on his FSU tape.

If he can’t attack, he can’t be a great player. Unless you’re hoping he turns into a great shooter.

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