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Woj: Bulls sign Devon Dotson to 2-Way Deal

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Re: Woj: Bulls sign Devon Dotson to 2-Way Deal 

Post#21 » by ChettheJet » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:12 pm

PlayerUp wrote:Dotson was supposed to go early in the 2nd round in many mocks.


That's alI know about him so in normal times this would be a prime catch. But having gone through this draft with so little known about every pick and having checked 6 mock drafts through #44, that Dotson was projected anywhere means nothing.
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Re: Woj: Bulls sign Devon Dotson to 2-Way Deal 

Post#22 » by othawhitemeat » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:22 pm

fleet wrote:
Following the end of his college career, Dotson tested out at the remote 2020 NBA Draft Combine, where he impressed in a number of areas. Dotson posted a time of 3.02 seconds in the three-quarter court sprint, per ESPN's Jonathan Givony. According to the NBA Draft expert, that mark was the fastest time at this year's combine and second-fastest time in the past decade at the event.


Dotson, per Givony, also posted the top lane agility time (10.44). His vertical leap was tested at 40 1/2 inches
.


and he would have been drafted later in the second round, but his agent pulled him out of the draft around #45 so he could go where he wanted to go. He could have a shot to stick around with his change of pace potential as mentioned. Not that Cobe is slow or anything. But that seems like his NBA niche, coming in to shake up the pace of the game. Viewing that clip video above though, he must have zero midrange, nothing was shown. Not a lot of passing highlights either. Must be a reason.


Coby is one of the fastest guards in the league. Pair Dotson with Coby and teams will be exhausted with our fast break. With Billy D, I think this kid will find a niche. As everyone mentioned, must develop 3 point and mid-range. He is a good free throw shooter and shot 36% from three his first year so there is a chance for that shot to develop. I think he has a chance to be a very good back up guard.
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Re: Woj: Bulls sign Devon Dotson to 2-Way Deal 

Post#23 » by Friend_Of_Haley » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:23 pm

fleet wrote:
and he would have been drafted later in the second round, but his agent pulled him out of the draft around #45 so he could go where he wanted to go. .

Is that a real thing? How do you pull out mid draft?
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Re: Woj: Bulls sign Devon Dotson to 2-Way Deal 

Post#24 » by dougthonus » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:39 pm

Friend_Of_Haley wrote:
fleet wrote:
and he would have been drafted later in the second round, but his agent pulled him out of the draft around #45 so he could go where he wanted to go. .

Is that a real thing? How do you pull out mid draft?


You can't officially pull out, but you can have your agent tell teams not to draft you, and they probably won't, because who wants drama with a late 2nd round pick.
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Re: Woj: Bulls sign Devon Dotson to 2-Way Deal 

Post#25 » by dougthonus » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:40 pm

Dotson was probably listed as the best available player in the draft starting around pick #40-45 on ESPN's list. He seems like a good pick up as far as UDFAs go, but I'm not sure that really means much. I mean he played at Kansas, so its not like people weren't aware of him or what he could do.
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Re: Woj: Bulls sign Devon Dotson to 2-Way Deal 

Post#26 » by TheSuzerain » Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:01 pm

I feel like he's a superior prospect to Jalen Brunson. It's a bit perplexing as to how he went undrafted.
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Re: Woj: Bulls sign Devon Dotson to 2-Way Deal 

Post#27 » by Peelboy » Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:25 pm

Superfast, athletic, and 83% FTs last year (78% prior year), so there's signs the shot is there. Only shot 31% from 3 last year but 36% year before and that FT rate makes it seem more likely he'll get the shot. If he does, this is an absolute steal, Coby/Dotson/Zach will be flying downcourt.
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Re: Woj: Bulls sign Devon Dotson to 2-Way Deal 

Post#28 » by kodo » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:08 pm

If you believe your talent level is higher than late 2nd round, it's common for agents to send the message to drafting teams that his client won't be be available and instead would rather go undrafted.

I think Dotson clearly falls into this case.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/ezevwz/the-second-round-of-the-nba-draft-is-broken-but-not-beyond-repair

The NBA has created a situation where it is far more valuable for a player to go undrafted than to be selected in the back half of the second round, which means that the second half of the draft is now defined by negotiation and posturing from teams and representation. You can use the prominent agent's words, or your own, but most everyone agrees that the second round is a problem that needs to be fixed.

And due to the fact that it's extremely unlikely someone will become an impact player after falling past No. 50, agents and players have begun telling teams not to select them at all.

"This year, I had multiple players that said 'no' to those scenarios," the agent who explained the process above said. "Flat out. That was a conscious choice after we discussed the pros and cons. They didn't like being locked in with one team and having no chance to play in the NBA this year. They turned it down. Now, typically during the draft, a few teams will call and ask if your player will reconsider, and we said no again to those who asked."

"There were some offers, and teams called on draft night," the former Wichita State point guard Fred VanVleet said about deciding against this option while at Summer League with the Raptors. "I had a good sense before the draft of where I was going to be or what was going to happen. Pretty much, though, the second half of the draft, most of those guys are draft-and-stash guys, and they tell you, 'We're going to put you in the D-League for three to four years' or 'We're going to put you overseas.' Getting my name called was important, but it wasn't important enough for someone to own me with no chance of making the team and no chance of having options."

VanVleet, who went on to sign a deal with the Raptors with $50,000 guaranteed upfront, is right on the money. It makes sense from an opportunity standpoint to go undrafted.


This article was from 2016, before VanVleet started playing for Toronto. I don't think the writer had any idea how good the VanVleet example would turn out in 2020 for his argument.
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Re: Woj: Bulls sign Devon Dotson to 2-Way Deal 

Post#29 » by Friend_Of_Haley » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:27 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Friend_Of_Haley wrote:
fleet wrote:
and he would have been drafted later in the second round, but his agent pulled him out of the draft around #45 so he could go where he wanted to go. .

Is that a real thing? How do you pull out mid draft?


You can't officially pull out, but you can have your agent tell teams not to draft you, and they probably won't, because who wants drama with a late 2nd round pick.

Okay that makes sense informally... but what would a guy's leverage in that situation be? Just go play in Europe (but have his rights held forever by that NBA team?).
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Re: Woj: Bulls sign Devon Dotson to 2-Way Deal 

Post#30 » by Friend_Of_Haley » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:32 pm

kodo wrote:If you believe your talent level is higher than late 2nd round, it's common for agents to send the message to drafting teams that his client won't be be available and instead would rather go undrafted.

I think Dotson clearly falls into this case.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/ezevwz/the-second-round-of-the-nba-draft-is-broken-but-not-beyond-repair

The NBA has created a situation where it is far more valuable for a player to go undrafted than to be selected in the back half of the second round, which means that the second half of the draft is now defined by negotiation and posturing from teams and representation. You can use the prominent agent's words, or your own, but most everyone agrees that the second round is a problem that needs to be fixed.

And due to the fact that it's extremely unlikely someone will become an impact player after falling past No. 50, agents and players have begun telling teams not to select them at all.

"This year, I had multiple players that said 'no' to those scenarios," the agent who explained the process above said. "Flat out. That was a conscious choice after we discussed the pros and cons. They didn't like being locked in with one team and having no chance to play in the NBA this year. They turned it down. Now, typically during the draft, a few teams will call and ask if your player will reconsider, and we said no again to those who asked."

"There were some offers, and teams called on draft night," the former Wichita State point guard Fred VanVleet said about deciding against this option while at Summer League with the Raptors. "I had a good sense before the draft of where I was going to be or what was going to happen. Pretty much, though, the second half of the draft, most of those guys are draft-and-stash guys, and they tell you, 'We're going to put you in the D-League for three to four years' or 'We're going to put you overseas.' Getting my name called was important, but it wasn't important enough for someone to own me with no chance of making the team and no chance of having options."

VanVleet, who went on to sign a deal with the Raptors with $50,000 guaranteed upfront, is right on the money. It makes sense from an opportunity standpoint to go undrafted.


This article was from 2016, before VanVleet started playing for Toronto. I don't think the writer had any idea how good the VanVleet example would turn out in 2020 for his argument.

Thanks for posting.

I know the NCAA hurdle would be one issue (I think the NBA can overcome it), but;

I'd love to see the NBA just look more like NHL. Everyone is eligible to be drafted out of high school without declaring. And your rights are just held for some definite term (4-5 years). Expand the draft to like 8 rounds, and then players just evaluate their options between jumping straight to NBA, overseas, NCAA, or G-League. Once your rights expire, you're a FA (just limited to the normal max salaries based on years played).
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Re: Woj: Bulls sign Devon Dotson to 2-Way Deal 

Post#31 » by TheSuzerain » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:34 pm

Friend_Of_Haley wrote:
kodo wrote:If you believe your talent level is higher than late 2nd round, it's common for agents to send the message to drafting teams that his client won't be be available and instead would rather go undrafted.

I think Dotson clearly falls into this case.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/ezevwz/the-second-round-of-the-nba-draft-is-broken-but-not-beyond-repair

The NBA has created a situation where it is far more valuable for a player to go undrafted than to be selected in the back half of the second round, which means that the second half of the draft is now defined by negotiation and posturing from teams and representation. You can use the prominent agent's words, or your own, but most everyone agrees that the second round is a problem that needs to be fixed.

And due to the fact that it's extremely unlikely someone will become an impact player after falling past No. 50, agents and players have begun telling teams not to select them at all.

"This year, I had multiple players that said 'no' to those scenarios," the agent who explained the process above said. "Flat out. That was a conscious choice after we discussed the pros and cons. They didn't like being locked in with one team and having no chance to play in the NBA this year. They turned it down. Now, typically during the draft, a few teams will call and ask if your player will reconsider, and we said no again to those who asked."

"There were some offers, and teams called on draft night," the former Wichita State point guard Fred VanVleet said about deciding against this option while at Summer League with the Raptors. "I had a good sense before the draft of where I was going to be or what was going to happen. Pretty much, though, the second half of the draft, most of those guys are draft-and-stash guys, and they tell you, 'We're going to put you in the D-League for three to four years' or 'We're going to put you overseas.' Getting my name called was important, but it wasn't important enough for someone to own me with no chance of making the team and no chance of having options."

VanVleet, who went on to sign a deal with the Raptors with $50,000 guaranteed upfront, is right on the money. It makes sense from an opportunity standpoint to go undrafted.


This article was from 2016, before VanVleet started playing for Toronto. I don't think the writer had any idea how good the VanVleet example would turn out in 2020 for his argument.

Thanks for posting.

I know the NCAA hurdle would be one issue (I think the NBA can overcome it), but;

I'd love to see the NBA just look more like NHL. Everyone is eligible to be drafted out of high school without declaring. And your rights are just held for some definite term (4-5 years). Expand the draft to like 8 rounds, and then players just evaluate their options between jumping straight to NBA, overseas, NCAA, or G-League. Once your rights expire, you're a FA (just limited to the normal max salaries based on years played).

That is how the NBA is set up. The NBA CBA is written in a manner where you could draft a player and retain their rights while they are in college.

It's the NCAA that is preventing that from happening.
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Re: Woj: Bulls sign Devon Dotson to 2-Way Deal 

Post#32 » by Friend_Of_Haley » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:57 pm

TheSuzerain wrote:That is how the NBA is set up. The NBA CBA is written in a manner where you could draft a player and retain their rights while they are in college.

It's the NCAA that is preventing that from happening.

My sense was that the "declaration" was the issue. Is that declaration an NBA requirement or an NCAA requirement? I know the NCAA made a push a couple years back to fight the MLB rights rules so that teams wouldn't hold players rights while they were still playing. But hockey still operates a pretty open structure as far as rights - I suspect the strong minor league / international market which is pretty decentralized plays a role there, but basketball's minor league and international league market is making strides there and is pretty close to mimicking hockey's pro structure now (just not as strong yet)... at some point the NCAA has to compete against that market if its strong enough. Obviously NCAA basketball has more negotiating strength than NCAA hockey, but there's already also movement in the NCAA to relax the rules about athletes using their likeness, and the NCAA being an extension of the minor league development system could actually make the relationship stickier for some of their stars... The NBA's decision about high school eligibility is obviously a big negotiating chip for the NBA to get an agreement done too I'd think.
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Re: Woj: Bulls sign Devon Dotson to 2-Way Deal 

Post#33 » by bad knees » Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:23 pm

Here is a chart from Tankathon that compares Dotson statistically to the highest-rated PGs in the draft. There is a lot to like. Needs to work on his 3 pt shot, but based on the tape and these stats, I would say he has legit backup PG potential.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=lamelo-ball--devon-dotson--tyrese-haliburton--killian-hayes--kira-lewis-jr
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Re: Woj: Bulls sign Devon Dotson to 2-Way Deal 

Post#34 » by Chi town » Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:30 pm

TheSuzerain wrote:I feel like he's a superior prospect to Jalen Brunson. It's a bit perplexing as to how he went undrafted.


Weird comparison. Brunson is super high IQ and unathletic. Brunson is a winning type of player though and valuable. Dotson is explosive fast. Probably close to Kira at getting to the hoop.

Will be really interesting to see who this vet PG will be to help him and Coby.
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Re: Woj: Bulls sign Devon Dotson to 2-Way Deal 

Post#35 » by Chi town » Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:32 pm

As for Dotson’s 3 ball... weird stoke. Kind of rolls it back. His FTs look good. Different form on his 3 ball
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Re: Woj: Bulls sign Devon Dotson to 2-Way Deal 

Post#36 » by Chi town » Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:45 pm

I like the idea of Dotson playing w Coby and playing fast.

No reason Dotson shouldn’t take Arch’s spot.
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Re: Woj: Bulls sign Devon Dotson to 2-Way Deal 

Post#37 » by sco » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:07 pm

bad knees wrote:Here is a chart from Tankathon that compares Dotson statistically to the highest-rated PGs in the draft. There is a lot to like. Needs to work on his 3 pt shot, but based on the tape and these stats, I would say he has legit backup PG potential.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=lamelo-ball--devon-dotson--tyrese-haliburton--killian-hayes--kira-lewis-jr

Thanks. He looked clearly a couple grades below the others in terms of his size and assists, in addition to his 3pt shot and being older. But he could still be decent.
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Re: Woj: Bulls sign Devon Dotson to 2-Way Deal 

Post#38 » by TheSuzerain » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:08 pm

Chi town wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:I feel like he's a superior prospect to Jalen Brunson. It's a bit perplexing as to how he went undrafted.


Weird comparison. Brunson is super high IQ and unathletic. Brunson is a winning type of player though and valuable. Dotson is explosive fast. Probably close to Kira at getting to the hoop.

Will be really interesting to see who this vet PG will be to help him and Coby.

Dotson is a winning type of player. He was the best player on the best team in college basketball last year, just like Brunson.

I think as a pretty moderate case, Dotson is a more twitched up version of Brunson. If Dotson's shot develops, then he'll be even better than that.

Dotson's stats are damn near identical with Kemba's coming out of school.
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Re: Woj: Bulls sign Devon Dotson to 2-Way Deal 

Post#39 » by Chi town » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:44 pm

TheSuzerain wrote:
Chi town wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:I feel like he's a superior prospect to Jalen Brunson. It's a bit perplexing as to how he went undrafted.


Weird comparison. Brunson is super high IQ and unathletic. Brunson is a winning type of player though and valuable. Dotson is explosive fast. Probably close to Kira at getting to the hoop.

Will be really interesting to see who this vet PG will be to help him and Coby.

Dotson is a winning type of player. He was the best player on the best team in college basketball last year, just like Brunson.

I think as a pretty moderate case, Dotson is a more twitched up version of Brunson. If Dotson's shot develops, then he'll be even better than that.

Dotson's stats are damn near identical with Kemba's coming out of school.


Makes more sense now. Brunson is one of those slow witty players that keeps you off balance and always makes the right play.

Dotson seems to win w burst. His PER is strong. Will be fun to watch what happens w him. Seems like AK knew we would sign him so he’d stash Marko in 2nd. Seems like Dotson wanted to be here too.
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Re: Woj: Bulls sign Devon Dotson to 2-Way Deal 

Post#40 » by Dan Z » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:49 pm

Chi town wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:I feel like he's a superior prospect to Jalen Brunson. It's a bit perplexing as to how he went undrafted.


Weird comparison. Brunson is super high IQ and unathletic. Brunson is a winning type of player though and valuable. Dotson is explosive fast. Probably close to Kira at getting to the hoop.

Will be really interesting to see who this vet PG will be to help him and Coby.


Are there any FA point guards that the Bulls should look at?

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