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Finalizing Roster for 20-21

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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#21 » by Chi town » Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:20 pm

PrimzyBulls81 wrote:AK said they will address scoring depth thru free agency.. Soo there will be for sure some change,maybe even thru trade!?
I would still like to see Bulls add veteran PG to mentor Coby..

White, Lavine, Porter, Markannen, Carter
Archie, Sato, Valentine, Mokoka, Williams, Hutchinson, T.Young, Gafford, Kornet, Felicio

they can waive Kornet for sure, sign veteran PG,maybe bring back Rondo or DJ Augustin,because Dragic,Teague,Clarkson I dont think will be available -- one another option,go HARD after FVV !? Try to trade Sato for bag of chips LoL..
This roster still needs a few upgrades to be really competitive.


I love Van Fleet. He's a great fit with Coby and Zach. He will get overpaid and will stay in TOR. Don't think we have shown enough to get a player like him to join us yet.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#22 » by coldfish » Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:30 pm

TheStig wrote:
coldfish wrote:Based on what I am reading, the plan is to let Donovan work with the existing team. This is going to be an oddball season with little rest and no preseason. Its going to take a while to get anything going.

After this year, the roster opens up with a ton of players expiring. Porter, Thad, Sato, Felicio, Kornett and Denzel will likely be gone, freeing up $60m in salary. Lauri could also depart in 2021.

I suspect that Chicago would be more active at the deadline than now as far as roster moves.

I agree, I think we'll see a lot of changes in trades during the year and the offseason. I think a lot of these guys have had their value depressed by Boylen. I don't think the Bulls will win a lot more games but I think they will look a lot better.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see Lavine moved. He's going to get a max or near max money as a UFA. I don't know that they want to tie that up in him and will have value.


I like Lavine but I agree. His value is going to peak at this year's deadline. With what JRue got, Lavine should get a boatload. I almost expect him to be gone. I wouldn't be surprised if Lauri, Wendell and Coby get moved too. I doubt AK has any loyalty to the existing players.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#23 » by gardenofsound » Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:34 pm

G White
G LaVine
F Porter
F Markkanen
C Carter

Bench:
G Satoransky / Valentine / Arcidiacono / Mokoka
F Young / Hutchison / Williams
C Gafford / Kornet / Felicio

My hopes:
1. Bulls have only one "true" point guard in Arcidiacono. Rajon Rondo would be a home run signing and could help elevate everyone's trade value. DJ Augustin would be a good consolation prize.
2. Young, Sato, and Valentine will all be actively shopped between now and the coming trade deadline. There's potential for Markkanen to fall into this category also depending on how AKMEBD evaluate things.
3. Felicio, Kornet, and Mokoka may all be used as salary filler depending on what kinds of deals are out there.

The big question: is the combination of Billy Donovan, internal player growth/development, a single vet free agent, and Patrick Williams going to be enough to turn this team into a a play-in contender?

I'm skeptical, but excited to find out.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#24 » by TheStig » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:00 pm

coldfish wrote:
TheStig wrote:
coldfish wrote:Based on what I am reading, the plan is to let Donovan work with the existing team. This is going to be an oddball season with little rest and no preseason. Its going to take a while to get anything going.

After this year, the roster opens up with a ton of players expiring. Porter, Thad, Sato, Felicio, Kornett and Denzel will likely be gone, freeing up $60m in salary. Lauri could also depart in 2021.

I suspect that Chicago would be more active at the deadline than now as far as roster moves.

I agree, I think we'll see a lot of changes in trades during the year and the offseason. I think a lot of these guys have had their value depressed by Boylen. I don't think the Bulls will win a lot more games but I think they will look a lot better.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see Lavine moved. He's going to get a max or near max money as a UFA. I don't know that they want to tie that up in him and will have value.


I like Lavine but I agree. His value is going to peak at this year's deadline. With what JRue got, Lavine should get a boatload. I almost expect him to be gone. I wouldn't be surprised if Lauri, Wendell and Coby get moved too. I doubt AK has any loyalty to the existing players.

I wish they'd try to get a value extension with Lauri. I think if you could lock him in, you could get a good deal now. If you can't, I think you have to move on. I don't know on Coby, he was showing a lot before the lockdown. And I really don't think JR would have hired him if his plans were to dismantle the roster. 2021 FA also isn't really hot after Giannis, PG and Kawhi. I think Giannis resigns and I don't see PG and Kawhi moving here. If anything, I think he does the sneak tank for the loaded draft next year.

I agree, I think there is a good chance someone overpays for Lavine. Some contender will think he can put them over the top.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#25 » by Chi town » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:19 pm

coldfish wrote:
TheStig wrote:
coldfish wrote:Based on what I am reading, the plan is to let Donovan work with the existing team. This is going to be an oddball season with little rest and no preseason. Its going to take a while to get anything going.

After this year, the roster opens up with a ton of players expiring. Porter, Thad, Sato, Felicio, Kornett and Denzel will likely be gone, freeing up $60m in salary. Lauri could also depart in 2021.

I suspect that Chicago would be more active at the deadline than now as far as roster moves.

I agree, I think we'll see a lot of changes in trades during the year and the offseason. I think a lot of these guys have had their value depressed by Boylen. I don't think the Bulls will win a lot more games but I think they will look a lot better.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see Lavine moved. He's going to get a max or near max money as a UFA. I don't know that they want to tie that up in him and will have value.


I like Lavine but I agree. His value is going to peak at this year's deadline. With what JRue got, Lavine should get a boatload. I almost expect him to be gone. I wouldn't be surprised if Lauri, Wendell and Coby get moved too. I doubt AK has any loyalty to the existing players.


This past draft was not the time to trade for picks. If we dump Lavine it has to be for a shot at a star wing in the next draft.

I can also see Lavine growing to a true #1 under Billy D.

I see the Bulls playing well this season with all the GarPaxBoylen toxicity gone and contract years for Otto and Lauri. Lots of guys have lots to prove. AK won't fall in love with guys either. I think he pumps value and makes trades that fit the way he wants to play as seen through his PW pick.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#26 » by Bankshot » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:19 pm

TheStig wrote:
coldfish wrote:
TheStig wrote:I agree, I think we'll see a lot of changes in trades during the year and the offseason. I think a lot of these guys have had their value depressed by Boylen. I don't think the Bulls will win a lot more games but I think they will look a lot better.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see Lavine moved. He's going to get a max or near max money as a UFA. I don't know that they want to tie that up in him and will have value.


I like Lavine but I agree. His value is going to peak at this year's deadline. With what JRue got, Lavine should get a boatload. I almost expect him to be gone. I wouldn't be surprised if Lauri, Wendell and Coby get moved too. I doubt AK has any loyalty to the existing players.

I wish they'd try to get a value extension with Lauri. I think if you could lock him in, you could get a good deal now. If you can't, I think you have to move on. I don't know on Coby, he was showing a lot before the lockdown. And I really don't think JR would have hired him if his plans were to dismantle the roster. 2021 FA also isn't really hot after Giannis, PG and Kawhi. I think Giannis resigns and I don't see PG and Kawhi moving here. If anything, I think he does the sneak tank for the loaded draft next year.

I agree, I think there is a good chance someone overpays for Lavine. Some contender will think he can put them over the top.


Isn't AD potentially in next year's market?
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#27 » by Chi town » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:22 pm

Jeff Teague on a one year full MLE overpay deal makes sense. He probably better than George Hill and DJ.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#28 » by Swuul » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:34 pm

I believe Lauri is going to see how things pan out under the new leadership. If it is same old same old, then he will take the QO next summer (assuming Bulls will offer it), serve out the year and be free according to the Finnish code of honor (which requires one to always honor made deals, no matter how **** that deal would turn out to be, and after the contract is fulfilled one is free to go on).

You have to realise Lauri isn't that interested in money (I understand that is quite difficult for americans to understand), as he already has all the money he and his family will ever need for a comfortable life. What he is interested in and motivated by is winning (Lauri hates losing, no matter if it is a match of darts or garden croquet or hoops). If Bulls becomes a team with a winning culture, you can be dead-sure Lauri will be in, at a very affordable cost for the Bulls if that is needed; if Bulls continues this season to be Bulls of the past seasons, he will take the QO in summer 2021 and be free to go to where ever he wants (which very well could be Dallas) in 2022.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#29 » by coldfish » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:48 pm

Swuul wrote:I believe Lauri is going to see how things pan out under the new leadership. If it is same old same old, then he will take the QO next summer (assuming Bulls will offer it), serve out the year and be free according to the Finnish code of honor (which requires one to always honor made deals, no matter how **** that deal would turn out to be, and after the contract is fulfilled one is free to go on).

You have to realise Lauri isn't that interested in money (I understand that is quite difficult for americans to understand), as he already has all the money he and his family will ever need for a comfortable life. What he is interested in and motivated by is winning (Lauri hates losing, no matter if it is a match of darts or garden croquet or hoops). If Bulls becomes a team with a winning culture, you can be dead-sure Lauri will be in, at a very affordable cost for the Bulls if that is needed; if Bulls continues this season to be Bulls of the past seasons, he will take the QO in summer 2021 and be free to go to where ever he wants (which very well could be Dallas) in 2022.


I agree. Chicago should look to trade Lauri ASAP. There are virtually no situations where this works out well for the Bulls. Lauri does seem like the type who would take the MLE just to chill out on the Mavs bench.

Hopefully the Bulls can do a pump and dump where Lauri has a hot streak and some organization overpays for him.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#30 » by Swuul » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:59 pm

coldfish wrote:I agree. Chicago should look to trade Lauri ASAP. There are virtually no situations where this works out well for the Bulls.

There is one situation where this works out well for the Bulls, more than well in fact (considering Bulls will get Lauri for a very affordable price in summer 2021). That requires Bulls to become a team who focuses on winning, and where Lauri feels he can contribute in a meaningful way.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#31 » by gobullschi » Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:18 pm

Sign Isaiah Thomas to a 2 year contract with the second year non-guaranteed. Bulls need a veteran lead guard who can provide some scoring off the bench. The second year non-guaranteed could give the Bulls a trade asset later down the road with Sato & Young.

Coby White / Isaiah Thomas / Ryan Arcidiacano
Zach LaVine / Tomas Satoransky / Adam Mokoka
Otto Porter Jr. / Chandler Hutchison / Denzel Valentine
Lauri Markkanen / Thaddeus Young / Patrick Williams
Wendell Carter Jr. / Daniel Gafford / Luke Kornet

Don’t see Patrick Williams getting much PT early without Summer League and enough time to get acquainted into the roster, but his role will increase as the season progresses.

Sato, Felicio, OPJ, & Thomas can all be used as valuable expiring contracts/non-guaranteed contracts at the trade deadline (depending on how the season plays out).
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#32 » by Rose2Boozer » Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:49 pm

The starting lineup should be pretty much set. That being said, the following lineup is what I don't to want to see as our second team: Satoransky/Hutchinson/Williams/Young/Gafford
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#33 » by sco » Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:52 pm

Swuul wrote:
coldfish wrote:I agree. Chicago should look to trade Lauri ASAP. There are virtually no situations where this works out well for the Bulls.

There is one situation where this works out well for the Bulls, more than well in fact (considering Bulls will get Lauri for a very affordable price in summer 2021). That requires Bulls to become a team who focuses on winning, and where Lauri feels he can contribute in a meaningful way.

I think the Bulls have been "focused" on winning for the past year, but injuries killed their season early on and they shifted to development like all teams do. With Lauri, it gets a bit circular as the combination of his statistical regression coupled with his inability to stay really healthy impact the team's ability to win.

I'd love to see a healthy season from Lauri under Donnovan and for him to earn a decent paycheck (and further support Finland's economy).
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#34 » by TheStig » Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:03 pm

Bankshot wrote:
TheStig wrote:
coldfish wrote:
I like Lavine but I agree. His value is going to peak at this year's deadline. With what JRue got, Lavine should get a boatload. I almost expect him to be gone. I wouldn't be surprised if Lauri, Wendell and Coby get moved too. I doubt AK has any loyalty to the existing players.

I wish they'd try to get a value extension with Lauri. I think if you could lock him in, you could get a good deal now. If you can't, I think you have to move on. I don't know on Coby, he was showing a lot before the lockdown. And I really don't think JR would have hired him if his plans were to dismantle the roster. 2021 FA also isn't really hot after Giannis, PG and Kawhi. I think Giannis resigns and I don't see PG and Kawhi moving here. If anything, I think he does the sneak tank for the loaded draft next year.

I agree, I think there is a good chance someone overpays for Lavine. Some contender will think he can put them over the top.


Isn't AD potentially in next year's market?

He's a free agent now. He opted out.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#35 » by TheStig » Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:06 pm

coldfish wrote:
Swuul wrote:I believe Lauri is going to see how things pan out under the new leadership. If it is same old same old, then he will take the QO next summer (assuming Bulls will offer it), serve out the year and be free according to the Finnish code of honor (which requires one to always honor made deals, no matter how **** that deal would turn out to be, and after the contract is fulfilled one is free to go on).

You have to realise Lauri isn't that interested in money (I understand that is quite difficult for americans to understand), as he already has all the money he and his family will ever need for a comfortable life. What he is interested in and motivated by is winning (Lauri hates losing, no matter if it is a match of darts or garden croquet or hoops). If Bulls becomes a team with a winning culture, you can be dead-sure Lauri will be in, at a very affordable cost for the Bulls if that is needed; if Bulls continues this season to be Bulls of the past seasons, he will take the QO in summer 2021 and be free to go to where ever he wants (which very well could be Dallas) in 2022.


I agree. Chicago should look to trade Lauri ASAP. There are virtually no situations where this works out well for the Bulls. Lauri does seem like the type who would take the MLE just to chill out on the Mavs bench.

Hopefully the Bulls can do a pump and dump where Lauri has a hot streak and some organization overpays for him.

I'd love to lock him up long term now for 10-12 mill a year. But I don't think he takes it. And if he doesn't, they should pump and dump as you say. But someones going to pay him like 20+ mill a year when he puts up 20ppg this year. And I wouldn't do that long term.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#36 » by mack2354 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:28 pm

Rose2Boozer wrote:The starting lineup should be pretty much set. That being said, the following lineup is what I don't to want to see as our second team: Satoransky/Hutchinson/Williams/Young/Gafford


I would hate that unit as well. I'd look to trade Young for a second round pick and scrub. Immediately waive the scrub we get in the trade then use our MLE for a Point Guard. That second unit is going to need a lot more play making and shooting. Going with the below unit helps a bit with that. Playing Valentine if Hutch or Williams underperforms will help as well.

PG
Satoransky
Williams/Hutch
Williams/Hutch
Gafford
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#37 » by sco » Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:37 pm

mack2354 wrote:
Rose2Boozer wrote:The starting lineup should be pretty much set. That being said, the following lineup is what I don't to want to see as our second team: Satoransky/Hutchinson/Williams/Young/Gafford


I would hate that unit as well. I'd look to trade Young for a second round pick and scrub. Immediately waive the scrub we get in the trade then use our MLE for a Point Guard. That second unit is going to need a lot more play making and shooting. Going with the below unit helps a bit with that. Playing Valentine if Hutch or Williams underperforms will help as well.

PG
Satoransky
Williams/Hutch
Williams/Hutch
Gafford

I agree! Although, there is no rule that you need to do hockey line subs. We could easily bolster that scoring by keeping any 2 our non WC starters on the floor...in fact it will probably help the starters to spread them out too.

That said, there are a handful of scoring PG's available in FA who could be had with a portion of our MLE.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#38 » by TeamMan » Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:37 pm

Chi town wrote:If we are healthy lots of guys won't be seeing the floor.

Our greatest need is a vet PG. Sato is not a PG. At all.

Good point.

The listing of players does not take into consideration the positions that they will play. A positional listing goes as follows:

PG - Coby, Sato, Archi-D
SG - Zach, Valentine, Mokoka
SF - OPJ, Williams, Hutch
PF - Lauri, Young, Felicio
C - WCJ, Gafford, Kornet

However, that's strictly structured on a worst case scenario.

As we all know, no coach plays a 15 player rotation. So, what we will most likely see is that at least 1 or 2 players will play two positions. And 5 or 6 players will almost never make it off the bench.

That will most likely include Mokoka and Valentine with Sato swinging between the PG and SG positions.

It's something that our FO should discuss with both players and they'll have to decide it they want to ride the bench for the season or turn down the QO and try to get on with another team that will offer them more PT (IMO highly unlikely).

That means that this roster is most likely set unless a FA creeps into the picture.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#39 » by StunnerKO » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:01 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#40 » by kodo » Thu Nov 19, 2020 10:17 pm

Otto should be spending a good deal of time at the 4, because that's the NBA these days. Playing actual PFs at the PF spot is just falling into a trap the other 29 teams have figured out already.

Watching Chicago try to match up with Boston and having Lauri Markkanen try to check Jaylen Brown out in space is just laughable. And I can't blame Lauri, he was just set up to fail by coaching & the organization.

At least half of these bigs need to be off the roster, regardless if we get anything back or not.

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