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Finalizing Roster for 20-21

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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#81 » by sco » Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:27 pm

gobullschi wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
gobullschi wrote:

I agree that Thad should get moved, but I’m leaning towards moving him at the deadline. Since the season is starting so quickly, I don’t think it’s realistic to expect a 19 year old to be ready for the type of minutes Thad will get early on.

Hopefully Thad performs well enough for the Bulls to get some draft capital in 2021.


Usually, I'm with you about making rookies earn it, but in this case I want to see at least 20 minutes right off the bat. Williams is a high draft pick and he's already lost tons of valuable development time due to Covid. If we're going to be a playoff team it's going to be because of Zach, Lauri, and White and not Young anyway.


I see where your coming from. I want another first in the 2021 draft, which is why I was leaning towards giving Thad more minutes early only to boost his trade value.

Good points guys. I'd lean toward keeping Thad. He's such a known commodity, whether we play him or not, his trade value isn't going to change. That said, I like to have a middling talent to serve as a hurdle for the rookie to overcome, especially given the fact that Otto, Hutch and Lauri are all injury prone and it really hurt not having enough viable forwards on the roster last year. If Thad's minutes fall off, tell him we'll move him at the deadline or next offseason. That said, if we can find a vet min guy who would complain less about being benched, I'd be fine with that as well.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#82 » by Chi town » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:02 pm

I think AK wants to win. I think he keeps everyone around until the youngsters prove what they are and he then ships out the vets. I can see OPJ getting shipped out once he proves his health.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#83 » by sco » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:20 pm

Chi town wrote:I think AK wants to win. I think he keeps everyone around until the youngsters prove what they are and he then ships out the vets. I can see OPJ getting shipped out once he proves his health.

You are probably right. Part of me wonders what happens if OPJ outplays Lauri this season. Given his and PWill's versatility, they could be a formidable and more valuable forward tandem. I'm not so sure the price difference will be so big between Otto and Lauri to keep.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#84 » by Red8911 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:23 pm

TheStig wrote:
Red8911 wrote:
Ccwatercraft wrote:
Yes to the empty gym part. I remember way back when watching Corie Blount dropping them with high % in warmups before, but he would have been yanked off the floor if he did it in a game.

IMO WCJ can be an effective shooter from distance, having a new coach and a new offense should help with the opportunities.
Do we care if he’s an effective shooter? What’s his role on this team? As the center of the team he should be the one who does the dirty work play defense, block people, box out, get rebounds and work on scoring in the post. Sure him being able to shoot helps at times but at the end of the day the others will be the scorers not Carter. He needs to get that through his head that he is a role player and those things are what makes him more valuable not being able to hit 3s.

This isn't 1980 and he's not Joel Embid. He shouldn't try to be a post scorer. He needs to master the pick and roll/pop. So shooting is important. That's why teams close going small. If he wants to be anything more than an average big that plays 25mpg, he has to be able to shoot the 3 to stay on the floor in clutch time.
I’m not saying turn Carter into a Shaq and he should somewhat work on shooting 3s but it shouldn’t be a priority. The other things I mentioned should be mastered first before going to 3pt shooting. Carter is never going to be a scorer in this league and the sooner he realizes it the better for his career. Even with this roster when he starts he’s the last option on offense. Again sure he should be able to hit some shots I agree but not the way you guys describe it. Lauri is that kind of scorer (or at least should be) Carter isn’t.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#85 » by Red8911 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:29 pm

sco wrote:
gobullschi wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
Usually, I'm with you about making rookies earn it, but in this case I want to see at least 20 minutes right off the bat. Williams is a high draft pick and he's already lost tons of valuable development time due to Covid. If we're going to be a playoff team it's going to be because of Zach, Lauri, and White and not Young anyway.


I see where your coming from. I want another first in the 2021 draft, which is why I was leaning towards giving Thad more minutes early only to boost his trade value.

Good points guys. I'd lean toward keeping Thad. He's such a known commodity, whether we play him or not, his trade value isn't going to change. That said, I like to have a middling talent to serve as a hurdle for the rookie to overcome, especially given the fact that Otto, Hutch and Lauri are all injury prone and it really hurt not having enough viable forwards on the roster last year. If Thad's minutes fall off, tell him we'll move him at the deadline or next offseason. That said, if we can find a vet min guy who would complain less about being benched, I'd be fine with that as well.
Young underperformed last season, he should of been better and didn’t he want to get traded anyway ?

They should just move him what’s the point of keeping him around especially if he’s not happy ? There’s so many other PFs that can come off the bench and do better. Would like to somehow bring in Saric.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#86 » by HomoSapien » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:41 pm

Red8911 wrote:
sco wrote:
gobullschi wrote:
I see where your coming from. I want another first in the 2021 draft, which is why I was leaning towards giving Thad more minutes early only to boost his trade value.

Good points guys. I'd lean toward keeping Thad. He's such a known commodity, whether we play him or not, his trade value isn't going to change. That said, I like to have a middling talent to serve as a hurdle for the rookie to overcome, especially given the fact that Otto, Hutch and Lauri are all injury prone and it really hurt not having enough viable forwards on the roster last year. If Thad's minutes fall off, tell him we'll move him at the deadline or next offseason. That said, if we can find a vet min guy who would complain less about being benched, I'd be fine with that as well.
Young underperformed last season, he should of been better and didn’t he want to get traded anyway ?

They should just move him what’s the point of keeping him around especially if he’s not happy ? There’s so many other PFs that can come off the bench and do better. Would like to somehow bring in Saric.


If Young was someone like Shane Battier, then I'd be all for keeping him around and letting PW learn from him but the Young we saw last year had so many bad habits that I don't want that rubbing off on Williams at all.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#87 » by TheStig » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:56 pm

Red8911 wrote:
TheStig wrote:
Red8911 wrote: Do we care if he’s an effective shooter? What’s his role on this team? As the center of the team he should be the one who does the dirty work play defense, block people, box out, get rebounds and work on scoring in the post. Sure him being able to shoot helps at times but at the end of the day the others will be the scorers not Carter. He needs to get that through his head that he is a role player and those things are what makes him more valuable not being able to hit 3s.

This isn't 1980 and he's not Joel Embid. He shouldn't try to be a post scorer. He needs to master the pick and roll/pop. So shooting is important. That's why teams close going small. If he wants to be anything more than an average big that plays 25mpg, he has to be able to shoot the 3 to stay on the floor in clutch time.
I’m not saying turn Carter into a Shaq and he should somewhat work on shooting 3s but it shouldn’t be a priority. The other things I mentioned should be mastered first before going to 3pt shooting. Carter is never going to be a scorer in this league and the sooner he realizes it the better for his career. Even with this roster when he starts he’s the last option on offense. Again sure he should be able to hit some shots I agree but not the way you guys describe it. Lauri is that kind of scorer (or at least should be) Carter isn’t.

He's already a good defender and rebounder. He needs to spread the floor to stay on it. The only time he should post up is if he has a small wing on him. Otherwise, get out of the paint offensively unless it's a pnr or cut.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#88 » by Chi town » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:57 pm

sco wrote:
Chi town wrote:I think AK wants to win. I think he keeps everyone around until the youngsters prove what they are and he then ships out the vets. I can see OPJ getting shipped out once he proves his health.

You are probably right. Part of me wonders what happens if OPJ outplays Lauri this season. Given his and PWill's versatility, they could be a formidable and more valuable forward tandem. I'm not so sure the price difference will be so big between Otto and Lauri to keep.


I think they are both gone. Injuries and lack of creating.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#89 » by qianlong » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:12 am

I don’t understand how nobody mentions the SF position. After last season I don’t trust Porter returning to form or being healthy. I don’t trust much Val or Hutch, and even if healthy I do not want to see them as starters unless they magically improved this off season.
Williams will see spot minutes, but I believe we will soon realise that he is a pf only player.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#90 » by PrimzyBulls81 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:32 am

qianlong wrote:I don’t understand how nobody mentions the SF position. After last season I don’t trust Porter returning to form or being healthy. I don’t trust much Val or Hutch, and even if healthy I do not want to see them as starters unless they magically improved this off season.
Williams will see spot minutes, but I believe we will soon realise that he is a pf only player.

Williams can easily play SF for ten years..
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#91 » by TeamMan » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:55 am

PrimzyBulls81 wrote:
qianlong wrote:I don’t understand how nobody mentions the SF position. After last season I don’t trust Porter returning to form or being healthy. I don’t trust much Val or Hutch, and even if healthy I do not want to see them as starters unless they magically improved this off season.
Williams will see spot minutes, but I believe we will soon realise that he is a pf only player.

Williams can easily play SF for ten years..

IMO (and this is pure speculation) AK (and more and more other GMs) thought that Williams was a Kawhi Leonard clone.

As I mentioned on draft night, the 1st thing that caught my attention was his 83.8% FT percentage. And that is one of the stats that Leonard (as well as Jimmy Butler) also has.

====
Also of note...

In his interview after the draft, AK kept mentioning Williams' ball handling, and repeating that he'd played PG in HS for 3 years.

He said that it's something that does not show up in the highlight videos, but that Williams has a good handle.

AK also mentioned Williams' big hands (another Leonard feature) also suggesting that he will have no problem handling the BB.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#92 » by Fastbrk4brkfast » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:51 pm

sco wrote:
Chi town wrote:I think AK wants to win. I think he keeps everyone around until the youngsters prove what they are and he then ships out the vets. I can see OPJ getting shipped out once he proves his health.

You are probably right. Part of me wonders what happens if OPJ outplays Lauri this season. Given his and PWill's versatility, they could be a formidable and more valuable forward tandem. I'm not so sure the price difference will be so big between Otto and Lauri to keep.


Probably in the vast minority here but I'd love to see them bring Lauri off the bench. I think it's where he's headed over his career anyway. He's got all kinds of skill but even when "healthy" I see issues with stamina and conditioning that make it unlikely to get a full season out of him on starter's minutes. I'd still like to see him play that role for us rather than another team so benching him now keeps his asking price down which is better than losing him or giving him a contract he'll underperform.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#93 » by ChettheJet » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:26 pm

So I'm a bit confused.

Valentine takes the qualifying offer he figures to be there to fill in at the SF SG.
They sign Temple for a year and he figures to be a capable reserve SG behind Lavine and White
So that puts Valentine primarily at the SF,
Does that mean Hutchison is on his way out the door because they have Porter to start, they just drafted Williams and there's Valentine with no need at SG
Or is there a trade for Porter on the horizon so they need 3 guys at the SF?
Or is there a trade for Young coming and Porter takes the minutes behind Markkanen at the PF leaving minutes for 3 SFs off the bench?
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#94 » by Fastbrk4brkfast » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:57 pm

ChettheJet wrote:So I'm a bit confused.

Valentine takes the qualifying offer he figures to be there to fill in at the SF SG.
They sign Temple for a year and he figures to be a capable reserve SG behind Lavine and White
So that puts Valentine primarily at the SF,
Does that mean Hutchison is on his way out the door because they have Porter to start, they just drafted Williams and there's Valentine with no need at SG
Or is there a trade for Porter on the horizon so they need 3 guys at the SF?
Or is there a trade for Young coming and Porter takes the minutes behind Markkanen at the PF leaving minutes for 3 SFs off the bench?


A trade moving Young and Sato would be ideal.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#95 » by sco » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:22 pm

Fastbrk4brkfast wrote:
ChettheJet wrote:So I'm a bit confused.

Valentine takes the qualifying offer he figures to be there to fill in at the SF SG.
They sign Temple for a year and he figures to be a capable reserve SG behind Lavine and White
So that puts Valentine primarily at the SF,
Does that mean Hutchison is on his way out the door because they have Porter to start, they just drafted Williams and there's Valentine with no need at SG
Or is there a trade for Porter on the horizon so they need 3 guys at the SF?
Or is there a trade for Young coming and Porter takes the minutes behind Markkanen at the PF leaving minutes for 3 SFs off the bench?


A trade moving Young and Sato would be ideal.

I think I think Sato may be moveable, but I doubt we could trade Thad for an expiring contract. I think Sato and Thad go into the season as our backup PG and PF.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#96 » by Evil_Headband » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:58 pm

Gafford has to be happy. I wondered if they'd try to upgrade at backup center but, barring other moves, it's only a battle between Gafford, Kornet and Felicio. Gafford certainly has a nice opportunity.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#97 » by Nate3carp » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:13 pm

qianlong wrote:I don’t understand how nobody mentions the SF position. After last season I don’t trust Porter returning to form or being healthy. I don’t trust much Val or Hutch, and even if healthy I do not want to see them as starters unless they magically improved this off season.
Williams will see spot minutes, but I believe we will soon realise that he is a pf only player.

Was thinking this as well. I don’t think they’d go for it, but I’d call see what it would take to get Ingram from NO in a sign and trade. Porter gives them a vet and matches Ingrams salary. So OPJ and a top 4 protected 2021 pick for Ingram? How much more would they ask for, or is it just a flat no?
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#98 » by ChicagoSportsFan21 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:41 pm

It looks like the roster is locked currently with 15 players with Valentine signing the QO and getting Temple. What do the Bulls do next? Waive and sign somebody else? Trade?
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#99 » by sco » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:15 pm

Evil_Headband wrote:Gafford has to be happy. I wondered if they'd try to upgrade at backup center but, barring other moves, it's only a battle between Gafford, Kornet and Felicio. Gafford certainly has a nice opportunity.

I think that he showed well enough last season to get the new FO to see him as a viable backup C. Gafford and WC will both get their chance to show what they are/can be this season. Gafford is a bargain.
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Re: Finalizing Roster for 20-21 

Post#100 » by R3AL1TY » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:47 pm

The roster should be finalized now but depending on the team's record by the trade deadline, a vet or two may be gone around then for an asset.

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