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I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in.

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I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#1 » by thebizkit » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:55 pm

I'm really struggling to understand the direction this new front office is trying to take the Bulls in.

The Billy Donovan hiring signaled that this is not a rebuilding year, but the draft was definitely a rebuild type one. Listen, Williams may turn into a good player, but If we needed someone to contribute right away with a bright future, I really think Deni Avdija would have covered all those bases.

If we aren't rebuilding, then I kind of understand not trying to move Lavine or Lauri, but if we are trying to compete why the hell did we spend money on bringing Denzel Valentine back? Why spend money on a locker room guy in Garrett Temple? I understand the financial and roster limitations, but it's a hard pill to swallow when other teams with similar issues ARE making significant win now moves (Lakers).

Like I said before, I will fully trust this FO for one year before I make any harsh judgments, but man are they really making it hard right now.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#2 » by The Explorer » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:06 pm

thebizkit wrote:I'm really struggling to understand the direction this new front office is trying to take the Bulls in.

The Billy Donovan hiring signaled that this is not a rebuilding year, but the draft was definitely a rebuild type one.


Bill Donovan hiring simply signaled a move towards competence from the long years of incompetence.

If we aren't rebuilding, then I kind of understand not trying to move Lavine or Lauri, but if we are trying to compete why the hell did we spend money on bringing Denzel Valentine back? Why spend money on a locker room guy in Garrett Temple? I understand the financial and roster limitations, but it's a hard pill to swallow when other teams with similar issues ARE making significant win now moves (Lakers).


Valentine has value on this roster as a shooter, playmaker, and added depth. Any team can use those. The Lakers don't have similar issues because they're trying to win the title again, Bulls are simply trying not to suck and develop some players, playoffs or no playoffs. There has been a lack of player leadership in the past with Boylen at the helm and being the authoritarian he is. The Temple signing signals a shift in philosophy that leadership comes from the coach and the players.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#3 » by coldfish » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:20 pm

Billy Donovan was hired as a long term developmental coach.

I think the plan is extraordinarily simple:
- Have the team play for a half season under Donovan, away from Boylen and see which players get it and which ones don't
- Move the players that don't get it possibly in combination with expiring contracts to build a team
- In 2021, Otto, Felicio, Sato and Thad are all gone, freeing up a ton of capspace. The team will use that and any assets they get from trading unwanted players to improve.

The end goal is to build a team filled with multi dimensional players who have good chemistry while trying to pick up high level talent when the opportunity presents itself.

Regardless, its pretty clear that the first half of this next season is an evaluation period.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#4 » by thebizkit » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:22 pm

The Explorer wrote:
thebizkit wrote:I'm really struggling to understand the direction this new front office is trying to take the Bulls in.

The Billy Donovan hiring signaled that this is not a rebuilding year, but the draft was definitely a rebuild type one.


Bill Donovan hiring simply signaled a move towards competence from the long years of incompetence.

If we aren't rebuilding, then I kind of understand not trying to move Lavine or Lauri, but if we are trying to compete why the hell did we spend money on bringing Denzel Valentine back? Why spend money on a locker room guy in Garrett Temple? I understand the financial and roster limitations, but it's a hard pill to swallow when other teams with similar issues ARE making significant win now moves (Lakers).


Valentine has value on this roster as a shooter, playmaker, and added depth. Any team can use those. The Lakers don't have similar issues because they're trying to win the title again, Bulls are simply trying not to suck and develop some players, playoffs or no playoffs. There has been a lack of player leadership in the past with Boylen at the helm and being the authoritarian he is. The Temple signing signals a shift in philosophy that leadership comes from the coach and the players.


The Donovan hiring is not just a "Well hes competent" hiring. You don't pay a coach guy 6 million a year to just be competent. Especially when you still have dead coaching money on the books.

I'm terms of financial flexibility, the Bulls and Lakers were pretty similar in that both didn't have a bunch of cap space.

I get not trying to suck next year, but the NBA absolutely rewards sucking. Heck, most teams improve their chances of extended success in the future, by sucking now.

This core has been around a bit now and if there still isn't a clear cut leader in that locker room that the Bulls felt like they needed to bring in a journeyman... Man that's concerning.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#5 » by Davell » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:24 pm

Donovan hiring with the current group of players conceivably elevated them a decent amount from Boylen. Temple is part of the developmental puzzle too, he’s here to show these kids how to be professional. AK is giving each of these kids a full chance to succeed before pulling the plug on any of them. Which I think is very measured and the correct approach. We know him and Donovan are on the same page too, so that helps as well. I suspect more movement, but any major moves we make this year appear to be deadline moves imo.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#6 » by Ctownbulls » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:26 pm

Rebuild the entire organization from the inside out. They are starting with coaching, medical, training and development staff. All of which have been upgraded.

As for the roster, it isn't like they had much flexibility to do anything this year. No matter what the team did they were not going to be competitive next year. Evaluating all of our young guys under the new coaching staff for a season makes sense. Then next summer, when the draft is stronger and we have cap room to work with, they can make a more meaningful swing.

I don't get what the rush is. These guys are a bit handcuffed with the roster and the contracts today but things will change. Rome wasnt built in a day.

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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#7 » by sco » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:26 pm

Here's the way I think they see it. Sorta the same as last year. There is enough "talent" on the team to make the playoffs. Last year, the combination of injuries and bad coaching didn't provide enough to say if a FO should build around Zach and Lauri or start over.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#8 » by weneeda2guard » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:31 pm

I expected a off season with minimal movement. We have a opportunity to be a team with 2 max slots next off season in a much better free agency class.

We have a young core of players we haven't been able to properly evaluate due to boylen being our incompetent coach. We really need a good assessment of what kind of core we have and we can get that under Billy D and a good coaching and development staff. Our moves get made next year.

Trades are difficult because most teams want you to take back long term salary. A few 1 year deals to help evaluate and get some winning going doesn't hurt much. Lakers are Champs they can make win now moves. We need to just try to be a low seed playoff team 1st before trying to make win now moves lock ourselves into a roster not good enough to title contend and be stuck financially with that roster for years.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#9 » by cjbulls » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:46 pm

thebizkit wrote:I'm really struggling to understand the direction this new front office is trying to take the Bulls in.

The Billy Donovan hiring signaled that this is not a rebuilding year, but the draft was definitely a rebuild type one. Listen, Williams may turn into a good player, but If we needed someone to contribute right away with a bright future, I really think Deni Avdija would have covered all those bases.

If we aren't rebuilding, then I kind of understand not trying to move Lavine or Lauri, but if we are trying to compete why the hell did we spend money on bringing Denzel Valentine back? Why spend money on a locker room guy in Garrett Temple? I understand the financial and roster limitations, but it's a hard pill to swallow when other teams with similar issues ARE making significant win now moves (Lakers).

Like I said before, I will fully trust this FO for one year before I make any harsh judgments, but man are they really making it hard right now.


There is no perfect option.I agree we are headed quickly into that treadmill spot, but they deserve some leeway here. Young stars are the hardest things to acquire, after that it is young talent. If they trade Lauri/WCJ/LaVine now, they will not get equivalent talent back.

I personally would blow it up early because building largely comes through the draft, but seeing what the underperforming talent is capable of outside of Boylen is a perfectly defensible choice.

Ball was the only guy in the draft with a chance to truly help you win now, and those chances were relatively slim. Guys like Edwards, Wiseman and Toppin would not have been immediate upgrades over current rostered players. Once you accepted that, just take the guy with the most long term potential and move on (although I disagree with their assessment!)
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#10 » by ArtMorte » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:50 pm

Valentine isn't a bad player. Can shoot the three and has some beautiful floaters ^^ Also good bb iq, I think the can be a decent player for us if he stays healthy.

Lavine and Markkanen are still net positive players compared to their salaries. No need to get rid.

Also, doesn't make any sense to compare our situation to the Lakers. They're the champions, they're LA, they've got Lebron... just a completely different situation.

I'm not expecting great things from this season, but neither am I worried about the team's direction under a new coach and front office before a game's been played.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#11 » by DuckIII » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:54 pm

coldfish wrote:Billy Donovan was hired as a long term developmental coach.

I think the plan is extraordinarily simple:
- Have the team play for a half season under Donovan, away from Boylen and see which players get it and which ones don't
- Move the players that don't get it possibly in combination with expiring contracts to build a team
- In 2021, Otto, Felicio, Sato and Thad are all gone, freeing up a ton of capspace. The team will use that and any assets they get from trading unwanted players to improve.

The end goal is to build a team filled with multi dimensional players who have good chemistry while trying to pick up high level talent when the opportunity presents itself.

Regardless, its pretty clear that the first half of this next season is an evaluation period.


Yeah, the last few days haven’t confused me, they’ve made it clear. And to me it’s the right thing to do. Get first hand experience and observation of these players under the new coach, and then chart a course for reshaping the roster. No reason to rush into anything with the way this team is currently built.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#12 » by LateNight » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:58 pm

Flashy big moves are not always the right moves, and quick fixes often don't hold.

Every year there's some team who makes a bunch of aggressive moves, leverages their future and then they get blown out in the playoffs and have to rebuild with fewer assets.

Billy D hasn't even worked with these guys yet. Give them time to evaluate what we have here. We have lots of trade assets we can move before the deadline if we want to. We might even make a trade before the season starts.

If we've seen anything from these guys it's that they make calculated decisions and then executed on those plans. Give them space to work.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#13 » by ChettheJet » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:16 pm

If you don't understand you were probably cheering all the posts that traded 3/4 of the roster for draft picks this year and wanted to tank, tank, tank for a few more years. Overreacting on message boards is fun but it's the sure fire LOSER approach for a team.

It's just not that difficult to see that the Bulls don't have the talent to make big moves and end up any better. They could have ended up with 5 draft picks in the fold or they could have traded for more huge expiring contracts and had an old team that would disappear and need refilling next draft/FA/trade season.

They're adding Williams, evaluating who they have and if who they have can be healthy. If Markkanen, Carter and Gafford can stay healthy what can they do, can White be a PG, can Lavine let others do more so he can be more efficient, does Williams show growth this year to start next year, these are the question that need to be answered this year. They would be happy to make the playoffs they would be idiots to make a bunch of moves for older players dreaming of a deep playoff run.

See what they have going into next season, where they are in the draft, how much caps space they have an who is there to spend it on and that the direction the team is going
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#14 » by Fastbrk4brkfast » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:28 pm

KC predicted a gradual roster overhaul and I tend to agree unless we hit really big in next year's free agency.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#15 » by HearshotKDS » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:37 pm

People have basically already said it, but the direction the Bulls are moving in is "evaluate what we currently have, then move forward from there once we know what we have". I think the FO is leaning towards redoing the rebuild, but this next year will likely be focusing on which current pieces are usable in the re-rebuild, and which are best off liquidated into assets.

Seems pretty damning of the last front office, but I dont think anyone is confused on if GarPax were competent or not.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#16 » by TheSuzerain » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:38 pm

They really need to be aggressive in trading for draft pick assets. Our coffers are empty.

The problem with the wait and see approach is that Donovan will probably want to keep the guys who play well, when we really should be selling high on Lauri/Lavine if possible.

We still lack vision/ambition in how we're managing the team and our assets. Seems to me, we are once again treading water which was GarPax's specialty.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#17 » by MrSparkle » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:45 pm

You’ve got Troy Weaver over in Detroit going bananas with the roster. IMO it’s tough taking a team in the pits and turning everyone’s crap value into a good team.

It was long established that this roster and coach sucked; every player’s trade value sucks. I think starting with Donovan is much better than the crazy-pot Troy is stirring in Motown.

If we have a team in the right direction after 1 year (or even next month), that’d be a very quick turnaround. IMO it’s unreasonable expecting it so soon though. Even Paxson’s successful 04/05 campaign came after another miserable 03/04 season, which had no shortage of lotto picks.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#18 » by khufure » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:00 pm

There's nothing wrong with spending $2M/year on a 2 year contract for Denzel. The only reason cap space matters is if you're trying to sign big free agents. But the Bulls were never going to sign any major players this year. Maybe next year if they make the playoffs.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#19 » by Southpaw » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:03 pm

I kinda agree with the OP that it's we haven't chosen a clear path just yet but I see why AKMEDON is taking the patient approach. Almost everyone agrees that Boylen was a terrible coach and dragged the roster down so it makes sense to see how our young guys would play under a good coach with a proven system. I view the Donovan hiring not as a "win now" move but more of a "get back some respect" move for the franchise. If they were really trying to win now, they would've traded the 4th and maybe some of our younger players to get some vets, which would've sucked.

Speaking of the draft, I don't really see anyone from this current draft that would've help us in winning more. A play maker like Lamelo/Hayes/Haliburton/Deni would've helped our offense but I don't think they'll be the biggest reason that we'd make the playoffs if we drafted them. I like the swing for the fences pick in Williams because they bring him along slowly and he's shown that he can handle not being gifted starter minutes.

Also, we can't compare the Bulls to the Lakers because the teams timeline are waaay different.

I'm expecting a clearer plan around the trade deadline where the young players have been properly evaluated under Donovan and/or next draft / FA period with a reportedly much stronger class and more cap space.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#20 » by weneeda2guard » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:06 pm

Detroit about to make a stop on the treadmill freight line they will eventually blow up in a few years. Writing is on the wall. Unless Hayes turns into a flat out all star.

One thing pax left for us was a slew of good young pieces. Those young pieces were improperly developed and poorly coached. I dont think its a 1 way of doing this I think the agenda is this

We have the assets for a monster trade but this will only be for a star that heavily moves the needle for us. No westbrook or John wall trades. If giannis wants out or Anthony Davis agrees to a sign and trade etc.

Next up, if no trade is there a shorter term plan, see if this team can be coached up to at least a 1st rd low playoff team. Then take good coach and young core of Carter jr lavine coby Williams lauri gafford and Hutchison into next off season with room for 2 max players and add great talent next to that core. The way things are going for the clippers kawhi could be on the move. Kawhi or Giannis might now want to come here alone, but 2 max slots can be sold to both of them with lavine , coby Williams Carter jr gafford and Hutchison still here. That is a title contending team. Can't get that if we blow all our money or make bad trades for players who get us at best 1st rd exits for the next 3 years i.e trading for westbrook.

Plan c, evaluate the roster see if this a core for the future. If not and they still underachieving with the 3rd coach we have had, at some point you realize its not the coaching its them and its time to start looking for another core. So a lavine trade , Carter jr trade, possibly coby trade , let lauri go or trade him then start working the draft for the new core with Patrick Williams in the fold.

I think this is the course and I'm fine with it
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