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I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in.

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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#41 » by PaKii94 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:51 am

TheSuzerain wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
TheSuzerain wrote:They really need to be aggressive in trading for draft pick assets. Our coffers are empty.

The problem with the wait and see approach is that Donovan will probably want to keep the guys who play well, when we really should be selling high on Lauri/Lavine if possible.

We still lack vision/ambition in how we're managing the team and our assets. Seems to me, we are once again treading water which was GarPax's specialty.


So if Markkanen goes permanent FebruLauri and proves himself to be a building block after all, we should get rid of him because... we need some other building block who's probably just as expensive - or worse yet, a dude from the draft who may or may not amount to anything?

Huh?

Lauri doesn't do the little things and he's poor defensively.

Scoring 20 points on decent efficiency isn't nearly as valuable as this board seems to think it is.


FebruLauri for a season would be 26.5p/13r on 63% TS. That's a bit better than 20ppg on decent efficiency. He would be our best player in the last few years after butler
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#42 » by thedarkstark » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:34 am

I think it's pretty obvious the direction we're headed in: We signed a coach who can develop our young guys, he's done incredibly well year after year despite major roster turn-around in OKC.

This year is a "let's see what these guys can do" year, if guys don't show improvement they're likely to be gone next year, Lauri is due for an extension, WCJ will be due for one next year, Valentine got a one year prove it deal. We're going to try and make the playoffs while developing our young guys, next year is the year big moves are likely to be made.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#43 » by qianlong » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:07 pm

I think the direction is clear as stated by others.
I’m not particularly fond of it. It is based on the assumption that the team has good enough talent and that they are going to do much better with good development and coaching.
I agree they will do better but IMHO the team lacks top level talent. I see first round exit as the ceiling.

The team looks to have several capable players but no first or second player on a contending team.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#44 » by sco » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:00 pm

thedarkstark wrote:I think it's pretty obvious the direction we're headed in: We signed a coach who can develop our young guys, he's done incredibly well year after year despite major roster turn-around in OKC.

This year is a "let's see what these guys can do" year, if guys don't show improvement they're likely to be gone next year, Lauri is due for an extension, WCJ will be due for one next year, Valentine got a one year prove it deal. We're going to try and make the playoffs while developing our young guys, next year is the year big moves are likely to be made.

Well said. I think there's a sense that one or two of our young guys is an all star talent, they just don't know who will step up.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#45 » by IliketheBullsNBearstoo » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:03 pm

Everyone wants to keep saying the direction is "clear". Maybe it is for you guys but its not for me. An evaluation period, a developmental period? Thats what we've been doing with this roster.

So if he is saying he doesn't plan on drafting that high again that means he doesn't plan on having as bad of a season so that means he expects improvement. Well if its not going to come with roster changes then I guess he believes in the new coaching staff to work wonders on our current roster. That statement tells me they don't plan on rebuilding. So we are just conceding this season then but we're not tanking so we will be mediocre just to evaluate our future because they can't do this based on past performance or they want to see them under a real coach? ok then. I can guess a plan based on the obvious lack of moves just like the rest of you. But regardless, the direction hasn't been made clear for this upcoming season. We're just assuming. Maybe thats just because you can't tell your fanbase that you're not really trying this season.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#46 » by MrFortune3 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:06 pm

I don’t understand where the confusion lies. AK and Evs made it abundantly clear what their plan was for this year. They wanted to dive in and find out why players regressed, get a revamped developmental staff in place and move forward with the roster.

I don’t know why people kept expecting them to completely tear it down and move everyone.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#47 » by IliketheBullsNBearstoo » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:10 pm

MrFortune3 wrote:I don’t understand where the confusion lies. AK and Evs made it abundantly clear what their plan was for this year. They wanted to dive in and find out why players regressed, get a revamped developmental staff in place and move forward with the roster.

I don’t know why people kept expecting them to completely tear it down and move everyone.


Because thats what new front offices typically do I suppose. I missed the interviews where AKME stated that. I'll have to go back and watch some interviews. Because I am one who is confused by the lack of improvement. So understand that some people are lacking information like myself. :lol:
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#48 » by IliketheBullsNBearstoo » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:17 pm

I think what I'm not considering is that this is a different situation here in 2020. The offseason is so short and the seasons are shortened. Maybe I'm expecting miracles and the front office is being careful not to rush things.

TBH I would just feel better if they found a sucker to take Thad and Sato at this point. Maybe they think the trade value for these guys will be better at the deadline.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#49 » by MrFortune3 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:36 pm

IliketheBullsNBearstoo wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:I don’t understand where the confusion lies. AK and Evs made it abundantly clear what their plan was for this year. They wanted to dive in and find out why players regressed, get a revamped developmental staff in place and move forward with the roster.

I don’t know why people kept expecting them to completely tear it down and move everyone.


Because thats what new front offices typically do I suppose. I missed the interviews where AKME stated that. I'll have to go back and watch some interviews. Because I am one who is confused by the lack of improvement. So understand that some people are lacking information like myself. :lol:


Evs first interview with KC he stated that
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#50 » by TeamMan » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:48 pm

thebizkit wrote:I'm really struggling to understand the direction this new front office is trying to take the Bulls in.

The Billy Donovan hiring signaled that this is not a rebuilding year, but the draft was definitely a rebuild type one. Listen, Williams may turn into a good player, but If we needed someone to contribute right away with a bright future, I really think Deni Avdija would have covered all those bases.

If we aren't rebuilding, then I kind of understand not trying to move Lavine or Lauri, but if we are trying to compete why the hell did we spend money on bringing Denzel Valentine back? Why spend money on a locker room guy in Garrett Temple? I understand the financial and roster limitations, but it's a hard pill to swallow when other teams with similar issues ARE making significant win now moves (Lakers).

Like I said before, I will fully trust this FO for one year before I make any harsh judgments, but man are they really making it hard right now.

Some points...

- There is a difference between building for a championship and building to make the playoffs. You don't go from not making the playoffs to expecting to win the NBA championship the next year.

- We have to remember what the "Free" in Free Agency means. It means that the players get to choose which team they will play for. So, at this point in time the best FAs are not going to pick the Bulls if they want to win a NBA championship. 1st the Bulls have to show as an organization (FO and ownership) that their goal is to win a championship, and that will take some years.

- The Bulls were not the only team interested in Williams, and if the Bulls had not taken him he probably would not have lasted long after the #4 pick.

- IMO one of the most important skills of a FO is being able to project if a player has the potential to be an All Star at some point in his career, then making the necessary decision/moves to get that player. AK, in his interview after the draft, basically said that this time it was easy form him because he only had to choose 4 players to go on his draft board. And obviously Deni was not one of those 4 players. And we have to trust that Williams has the potential to become an All Star as projected by AK and his staff.

- The Bulls have a core that they believe in (IMO Zach, Coby, Lauri, WCJ and OPJ) and they are going to allow Donovan to take that core and prove that they are worth the commitment. If for whatever reason it doesn't work, then AK will make the changes that he thinks are necessary. We have to give him that freedom if he's going to turn the Bulls' situation around.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#51 » by TheSuzerain » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:51 pm

MrFortune3 wrote:I don’t understand where the confusion lies. AK and Evs made it abundantly clear what their plan was for this year. They wanted to dive in and find out why players regressed, get a revamped developmental staff in place and move forward with the roster.

I don’t know why people kept expecting them to completely tear it down and move everyone.

Well there's still a lot that doesn't make sense.

If we're trying to rehab the value of the bigs, why did we not add an actual NBA playmaker?

If we're really trying to fill the team with versatile, 2-way, high IQ players, doesn't that rule out half of our "core" by default?
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#52 » by chrispatrick » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:53 pm

I agree with others who note that the plan appears to think the players we have are decent and can do more with solid development.

I still believe the cupboard is pretty bare here and maybe by year 10 of LaVine’s career we will stop believing the net negative performance with him in the court is a fluke.

It’s a bad plan. I don’t know much about Williams but am interested to see if he can be an actual building block vs our current group of guys who have some scoring ability but almost all lack the ability to do any of the little things that help win games and have made Chicago basketball so joyless the last few years.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#53 » by TheSuzerain » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:54 pm

TeamMan wrote:
thebizkit wrote:I'm really struggling to understand the direction this new front office is trying to take the Bulls in.

The Billy Donovan hiring signaled that this is not a rebuilding year, but the draft was definitely a rebuild type one. Listen, Williams may turn into a good player, but If we needed someone to contribute right away with a bright future, I really think Deni Avdija would have covered all those bases.

If we aren't rebuilding, then I kind of understand not trying to move Lavine or Lauri, but if we are trying to compete why the hell did we spend money on bringing Denzel Valentine back? Why spend money on a locker room guy in Garrett Temple? I understand the financial and roster limitations, but it's a hard pill to swallow when other teams with similar issues ARE making significant win now moves (Lakers).

Like I said before, I will fully trust this FO for one year before I make any harsh judgments, but man are they really making it hard right now.

Some points...

- There is a difference between building for a championship and building to make the playoffs. You don't go from not making the playoffs to expecting to win the NBA championship the next year.

- We have to remember what the "Free" in Free Agency means. It means that the players get to choose which team they will play for. So, at this point in time the best FAs are not going to pick the Bulls if they want to win a NBA championship. 1st the Bulls have to show as an organization (FO and ownership) that their goal is to win a championship, and that will take some years.

- The Bulls were not the only team interested in Williams, and if the Bulls had not taken him he probably would not have lasted long after the #4 pick.

- IMO one of the most important skills of a FO is being able to project if a player has the potential to be an All Star at some point in his career, then making the necessary decision/moves to get that player. AK, in his interview after the draft, basically said that this time it was easy form him because he only had to choose 4 players to go on his draft board. And obviously Deni was not one of those 4 players. And we have to trust that Williams has the potential to become an All Star as projected by AK and his staff.

- The Bulls have a core that they believe in (IMO Zach, Coby, Lauri, WCJ and OPJ) and they are going to allow Donovan to take that core and prove that they are worth the commitment. If for whatever reason it doesn't work, then AK will make the changes that he thinks are necessary. We have to give him that freedom if he's going to turn the Bulls' situation around.

What you're talking about is unprecedented. Save for a team with a bona fide superstar (which is plainly not us), there has never been a complete change of management where the new management came in and believed in the core they inherited. That's stupid on its face. The old core is the one that got GarPax fired. AK would have to be a complete idiot to believe in it.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#54 » by IliketheBullsNBearstoo » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:55 pm

MrFortune3 wrote:
IliketheBullsNBearstoo wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:I don’t understand where the confusion lies. AK and Evs made it abundantly clear what their plan was for this year. They wanted to dive in and find out why players regressed, get a revamped developmental staff in place and move forward with the roster.

I don’t know why people kept expecting them to completely tear it down and move everyone.


Because thats what new front offices typically do I suppose. I missed the interviews where AKME stated that. I'll have to go back and watch some interviews. Because I am one who is confused by the lack of improvement. So understand that some people are lacking information like myself. :lol:


Evs first interview with KC he stated that


TBH that is what I would expect any new GM to say after being hired.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#55 » by stl705 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:00 pm

Imo, who are we fooling? How many more looks do you need with the current Bulls players? If they miraculously turn into great players who can win, then great, but I think the writing is on the wall.

The direction to me is clear, the Bulls are after a top 5-7 pick in 2021. I was hoping for a blowup this offseason, guess I’ll have to watch another pathetic 30 win Bulls team again.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#56 » by netduri2 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:09 pm

kodo wrote:
- This draft was a 100% not a rebuild draft. Patrick Williams projects to be a 3&D player and lacks star potential. That's clearly a high floor / low upside pick at #4. If we wanted to gamble on a superstar to create a new team from scratch, this was absolutely not the right pick.


I agree with most of your takes but here's what I think differently.

Patrick Williams is definitely not a projected 3&D type player. His 3pt% in college was only 32%.

If AK had wanted to select 3&D type guy he would have selected Devin Vassell who was playing with Williams in college. Vassell is more polished player who just hit 3s 41% in college.

Patrick Williams is clearly high ceiling / low floor guy. He already had a few nice moments creating his own shots in the mid-range area in college. He is much more comfortable with creating his own shots than with taking catch-and-shoot.

AK himself even said that Patrick Williams was playing PG in highschool and therefore he has some nice offensive skills in his game.

Also AK once said you don't take a player who fits the roster but take a player who has the most upside when you select the player with high  pick.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#57 » by TheHrvReport » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:21 pm

The people who are saying they want a complete roster overhaul and miraculously go from 22 win team to playoffs are the same people who will say "i knew we shouldn't have traded X player" if AK actually got rid of one of Coby/Zach/Lauri/Wendell and they broke out somewhere else. Give me a break. Just be happy we got GarPax and Boylen out and we (hopefully) will not be the laughing stock of the league anymore.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#58 » by IliketheBullsNBearstoo » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:26 pm

TheHrvReport wrote:The people who are saying they want a complete roster overhaul and miraculously go from 22 win team to playoffs are the same people who will say "i knew we shouldn't have traded X player" if AK actually got rid of one of Coby/Zach/Lauri/Wendell and they broke out somewhere else. Give me a break. Just be happy we got GarPax and Boylen out and we (hopefully) will not be the laughing stock of the league anymore.


I'm not asking for a complete roster overhaul so I'll exclude myself from that statement. But to just be happy that Garpax and Boylen are out? Sorry I can't just be happy about that. I mean I am happy with that but what difference does it make if we are the same team with a different front office? I mean I root for the entertainers that are playing out on the basketball court not the guys wearing the suits.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#59 » by TheHrvReport » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:48 pm

IliketheBullsNBearstoo wrote:
TheHrvReport wrote:The people who are saying they want a complete roster overhaul and miraculously go from 22 win team to playoffs are the same people who will say "i knew we shouldn't have traded X player" if AK actually got rid of one of Coby/Zach/Lauri/Wendell and they broke out somewhere else. Give me a break. Just be happy we got GarPax and Boylen out and we (hopefully) will not be the laughing stock of the league anymore.


I'm not asking for a complete roster overhaul so I'll exclude myself from that statement. But to just be happy that Garpax and Boylen are out? Sorry I can't just be happy about that. I mean I am happy with that but what difference does it make if we are the same team with a different front office? I mean I root for the entertainers that are playing out on the basketball court not the guys wearing the suits.

There is no point in trying to improve through trades at this point considering everyones trade value is at its lowest. And it also makes little sense to handicap our cap flexibility trying to sign mediocre free agents this season. AK/ME have preached player development from the beginning, with that we'll get a better idea of how good our players can become and even raise their value on the trade market to THEN start making moves.
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Re: I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in. 

Post#60 » by 85Bears » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:51 pm

Direction is clear. It’s the same path that started last offseason which was a 2 year evaluation of current roster. Give Lauri, Zach, Dunn, Wendell, Coby, Gafford 2 seasons to see who is a legit player and who isn’t. Bring in vets to clear cap space for next offseason and go from there.

Zach. 25
Lauri. 23
Gafford 22
Wendell 21
Coby 20
Williams 19

Plus $60 million in space.

New regime must agree with this Pax plan and all agreed the coach is the issue. I expect moves at this deadline after new regime sees work ethic, playing ability in Donovan system, who can stay healthy.


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