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Lauri vs. Otto

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Who to keep/resign?

Otto
5
11%
Lauri
16
34%
Neither
21
45%
Both
5
11%
 
Total votes: 47

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Lauri vs. Otto 

Post#1 » by sco » Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:53 pm

I thought it would be fun to do another wrong-minded "vs" threads.

How do you see our future forward situation?

Otto is probably the most overlooked talent on the team. He's a very good 2-way player. He has the skills to do anything. Obviously, his missing ability is availability. But none of his injuries are debilitating ones. Supposedly he has had hip issues, but as far as I know that hasn't kept him out of games. His other issue is that WAS "Deng'd" him and hoped that just because he was paid like a 2nd option, he'd turn into one. That's not him, but IF HEALTHY (big IF), he's a great glue guy. He'll be a UFA next season, but if he plays healthy all season and returns to his WAS form, he may be our best option for a forward FA and he's young enough to not feel bad about a 4/$100M deal (again IF HE CAN STAY HEALTHY). In the new NBA, he could easily shift to PF, if we find a stud SF (or PWill becomes one).

Lauri defines the difference between a very good player and a player with a lot of potential to be very good. IMO, he's been on the cusp, but never taking that step to be anything more than a 3rd quartile starter. If he can stay healthy, make his 3's (especially over guards), that would be enough to bring him into the 2nd quartile. If he can improve his ball handling and defense a little, he could be a near-allstar. Most guys have taken that step after 3 years, but the combo of injuries and bad coaching has given him an excuse for not realizing his potential.

Barring Coby or Zach taking big strides, we'll need to look to one of the forward slots to find our #1 option. While we can dream PWill isn't becoming that guy in the next couple years, but he's a consideration about future pairing.

So who is your guy to bring back next year? Otto, Lauri, Neither, Both?
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Re: Lauri vs. Otto 

Post#2 » by R3AL1TY » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:24 pm

I think it's going to be a big assessment year for both players. One player will be judged by health more (Otto) while the other will be judged by performance more (Lauri). If Lauri's numbers is looking similar to last season while Otto is having a healthy season, I think Lauri will get traded. If Lauri is performing like his second season or better early on while Otto is either having some injury concerns again or having a healthy season with good numbers, I think they'll trade Otto by the deadline. But if Otto has a severe injury, it's obvious his trade value will be destroyed and the team will just move on without extending him.

But I won't mind keeping both if they meet their milestones since the team should improve significantly because of it.
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Re: Lauri vs. Otto 

Post#3 » by Evil_Headband » Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:51 pm

It is a good question. Fortunately there is a season's worth of watching them play (or seeing them injured) before they have to make the decision. I suspect AKME will keep an open mind. If Pat Williams shows promise, no way they keep both.
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Re: Lauri vs. Otto 

Post#4 » by League Circles » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:04 pm

At the moment, both would be not re-sign, but both could easily change to max or near max "must re-sign" status guys if they play well, up to their potential, all year and we do well, IF healthy virtually all year.
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Re: Lauri vs. Otto 

Post#5 » by ChettheJet » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:25 pm

I see Porter as the guy who solidifies the lineup, scores 10 points for 6 straight games then hits 30 then 6 more at 10., always passing and rebounding to contribute in all those games. He would be the guy to keep if they were set at the other 4 positions with very good players so he was the rudder of the ship. They aren't, everybody but Lavine is growing into their status and Zach needs to adjust to being able to let the others take more responsibility.

Lauri armed with confidence could be the perfect stretch 4 and the top 3 pt shooter on the team. Being in position when somebody else gets stopped by a double team and drain the 3. He has been able to drive to the basket, he's an average rebounder who doesn't need more strength just more technique on positioning and angles to move through the lane to get to the ball. He's got the upside if he starts playing that way.

In 2 years I would like to have Otto, right now I think Lauri is the better option.
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Re: Lauri vs. Otto 

Post#6 » by ZOMG » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:32 pm

It's been so long since we last saw Otto play a meaningful stretch of NBA basketball that people are starting to forget what he looked like defending on the perimeter, with his various chronic ailments. Hint: my mom could probably have blown past him.

Porter's days of defending NBA wings effectively are all but over. I played with a bum hip for a while, and defense is where it REALLY hurts you. Otto is one of those guys who's such a smart player, he's able to kind of hide his injuries on offense. But you can't do that on the other side of the ball. If you can't move laterally or change directions on the perimeter, every team in the League will scout that in 5 seconds.

I hope Porter is miraculously able to play more than 50 games, but I don't think that's very likely. Nagging injuries don't tend to get better when you approach 30 years of age.
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Re: Lauri vs. Otto 

Post#7 » by sco » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:36 pm

ZOMG wrote:It's been so long since we last saw Otto play a meaningful stretch of NBA basketball that people are starting to forget what he looked like defending on the perimeter, with his various chronic ailments. Hint: my mom could probably have blown past him.

Porter's days of defending NBA wings effectively are all but over. I played with a bum hip for a while, and defense is where it REALLY hurts you. Otto is one of those guys who's such a smart player, he's able to kind of hide his injuries on offense. But you can't do that on the other side of the ball. If you can't move laterally or change directions on the perimeter, every team in the League will scout that in 5 seconds.

I hope Porter is miraculously able to play more than 50 games, but I don't think that's very likely. Nagging injuries don't tend to get better when you approach 30 years of age.

The last couple years support you suppositions, but at 27, I'll be optimistic that he'll be able to play just fine through his hip, which really hasn't been his problem at all while he's played with us. None of his injuries, IIRC, are at all chronic. I think the Bulls said he came into the minicamp back down to his historical playing weight, and the highlights I saw, showed him looking pretty nimble.
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Re: Lauri vs. Otto 

Post#8 » by dougthonus » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:42 pm

ZOMG wrote:It's been so long since we last saw Otto play a meaningful stretch of NBA basketball that people are starting to forget what he looked like defending on the perimeter, with his various chronic ailments. Hint: my mom could probably have blown past him.

Porter's days of defending NBA wings effectively are all but over. I played with a bum hip for a while, and defense is where it REALLY hurts you. Otto is one of those guys who's such a smart player, he's able to kind of hide his injuries on offense. But you can't do that on the other side of the ball. If you can't move laterally or change directions on the perimeter, every team in the League will scout that in 5 seconds.

I hope Porter is miraculously able to play more than 50 games, but I don't think that's very likely. Nagging injuries don't tend to get better when you approach 30 years of age.


I think this is probably about right.

Maybe Porter's ailments won't be chronic and will get better, but I'd need to see some pretty strong evidence of that. I'm penciling him in to basically be worthless this season and if he surprises me then its all good. If his ailments end up not being chronic and a long layoff has allowed him to finally be healthy again, then I'd be pretty excited to have him.

As for Lauri, who knows. Lauri's probably a starting caliber player, but unless he shows you something special, you may not want to spend 20M a year on him. We'll see what he does, he's also in the show me state.
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Re: Lauri vs. Otto 

Post#9 » by Indomitable » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:47 pm

dougthonus wrote:
ZOMG wrote:It's been so long since we last saw Otto play a meaningful stretch of NBA basketball that people are starting to forget what he looked like defending on the perimeter, with his various chronic ailments. Hint: my mom could probably have blown past him.

Porter's days of defending NBA wings effectively are all but over. I played with a bum hip for a while, and defense is where it REALLY hurts you. Otto is one of those guys who's such a smart player, he's able to kind of hide his injuries on offense. But you can't do that on the other side of the ball. If you can't move laterally or change directions on the perimeter, every team in the League will scout that in 5 seconds.

I hope Porter is miraculously able to play more than 50 games, but I don't think that's very likely. Nagging injuries don't tend to get better when you approach 30 years of age.


I think this is probably about right.

Maybe Porter's ailments won't be chronic and will get better, but I'd need to see some pretty strong evidence of that. I'm penciling him in to basically be worthless this season and if he surprises me then its all good. If his ailments end up not being chronic and a long layoff has allowed him to finally be healthy again, then I'd be pretty excited to have him.

As for Lauri, who knows. Lauri's probably a starting caliber player, but unless he shows you something special, you may not want to spend 20M a year on him. We'll see what he does, he's also in the show me state.

I WISH we had Lauri in 2011. Today he is to limited. I would never give him 20 Million.
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Re: Lauri vs. Otto 

Post#10 » by ZOMG » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:48 pm

dougthonus wrote:
ZOMG wrote:It's been so long since we last saw Otto play a meaningful stretch of NBA basketball that people are starting to forget what he looked like defending on the perimeter, with his various chronic ailments. Hint: my mom could probably have blown past him.

Porter's days of defending NBA wings effectively are all but over. I played with a bum hip for a while, and defense is where it REALLY hurts you. Otto is one of those guys who's such a smart player, he's able to kind of hide his injuries on offense. But you can't do that on the other side of the ball. If you can't move laterally or change directions on the perimeter, every team in the League will scout that in 5 seconds.

I hope Porter is miraculously able to play more than 50 games, but I don't think that's very likely. Nagging injuries don't tend to get better when you approach 30 years of age.


I think this is probably about right.

Maybe Porter's ailments won't be chronic and will get better, but I'd need to see some pretty strong evidence of that. I'm penciling him in to basically be worthless this season and if he surprises me then its all good. If his ailments end up not being chronic and a long layoff has allowed him to finally be healthy again, then I'd be pretty excited to have him.

As for Lauri, who knows. Lauri's probably a starting caliber player, but unless he shows you something special, you may not want to spend 20M a year on him. We'll see what he does, he's also in the show me state.


From what I've read on Porter's hip even before he came to Chicago, it's the type where he might be able to play OK in stretches... but it inevitably "flares up" and takes a while to get better after that.
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Re: Lauri vs. Otto 

Post#11 » by chefo » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:50 pm

Bursitis in the hip is a b!tch. I know it because I started having it in my late thirties. There's no getting rid of it without a ton of rest and inactivity. Even anti-inflamatory meds don't do much. Having two little ones running around, mine's here to stay.

Makes you feel like you're 80 when you have it. You can still move, but forget about anything abrupt or it feels like somebody stabs you in the hip with a knife. You can sometimes go for a month or two symptom free, and then you just wake up and it's inflamed. God knows what you did to inflame it. Diet, or some movement, or whatever. Stretching doesn't fix it. Only cold helps for a bit.

It just sucks for Otto to have it at such a young age. I would not give him any meaningful money. The inflammation ailments like arthritis and bursitis just wreck your ability to stay healthy because among other things you always naturally overcompensate and end up injuring something else.
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Re: Lauri vs. Otto 

Post#12 » by Shill » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:52 pm

chefo wrote:Bursitis in the hip is a b!tch. I know it because I started having it in my late thirties. There's no getting rid of it without a ton of rest and inactivity. Even anti-inflamatory meds don't do much. Having two little ones running around, mine's here to stay.

Makes you feel like you're 80 when you have it. You can still move, but forget about anything abrupt or it feels like somebody stabs you in the hip with a knife. You can sometimes go for a month or two symptom free, and then you just wake up and it's inflamed. God knows what you did to inflame it. Diet, or some movement, or whatever. Stretching doesn't fix it. Only cold helps for a bit.

It just sucks for Otto to have it at such a young age. I would not give him any meaningful money. The inflammation ailments like arthritis and bursitis just wreck your ability to stay healthy because among other things you always naturally overcompensate and end up injuring something else.



I've had bursitis in my elbow and it was brutal.

Luckily it wasn't chronic.

I can't even imagine.
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Re: Lauri vs. Otto 

Post#13 » by Kurt Heimlich » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:55 pm

Lauri obviously has the more likely chance of being retained based on his age, better relative (albeit not great either) health projection plus RFA status.

I honestly dont know what to make of lauri at this point. Hes been less than durable and shown zero development. Blaming hoiberg/boylen is easy. So I guess hes got this year to prove if he has something else to offer. I dont love his player projection though. A passive stretch big who hasnt shown sustained elite shooting. I'm getting career frustrating player who shows glimpses of next level ability but cannot sustain vibes from lauri (not unlike niko).
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Re: Lauri vs. Otto 

Post#14 » by DorO » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:04 pm

Otto won’t get new deal from Bulls and for Lauri it depends on his game. With better overall game he has chance but rebounding, alertness, quickness and shooting must be better than last season.
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Re: Lauri vs. Otto 

Post#15 » by ArtMorte » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:48 pm

Otto has played 29 games for us while making about $40m in that time. I don't know what about that return on investment makes one think about re-signing him.
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Re: Lauri vs. Otto 

Post#16 » by Axl Rose » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:51 pm

At this point i say neither but my mind could change on Lauri. I'm pretty much over Otto and i praised his acquisition at one point - but it quickly soured once it became clear the man can't stay healthy and his hip issue is chronic.
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Re: Lauri vs. Otto 

Post#17 » by ImSlower » Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:26 am

If he excels for us this season, managing to stay healthy and be a difference maker on court, we may have a double-edged sword on our hands. The better he plays for us, the more likely it is the Bulls can't afford whatever his next contract looks like.
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Re: Lauri vs. Otto 

Post#18 » by Shill » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:24 pm

Right now, I lean toward neither.

We just drafted a young wing, and Otto seems to have chronic injury issues.

As for Lauri, he’s not particularly good at defending the four or the five.

That would be okay if he were an elite offense player, but he’s not.

Could he become that? Yes, but we’ve only seen it in flashes.
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Re: Lauri vs. Otto 

Post#19 » by sco » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:33 pm

I think it will be helpful over the season to see which guy Pwill plays better next to. It may also be the case that Pwill ends up looking like he isn't a guy who can start at either position...also a consideration.
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Re: Lauri vs. Otto 

Post#20 » by Indomitable » Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:57 am

sco wrote:
ZOMG wrote:It's been so long since we last saw Otto play a meaningful stretch of NBA basketball that people are starting to forget what he looked like defending on the perimeter, with his various chronic ailments. Hint: my mom could probably have blown past him.

Porter's days of defending NBA wings effectively are all but over. I played with a bum hip for a while, and defense is where it REALLY hurts you. Otto is one of those guys who's such a smart player, he's able to kind of hide his injuries on offense. But you can't do that on the other side of the ball. If you can't move laterally or change directions on the perimeter, every team in the League will scout that in 5 seconds.

I hope Porter is miraculously able to play more than 50 games, but I don't think that's very likely. Nagging injuries don't tend to get better when you approach 30 years of age.

The last couple years support you suppositions, but at 27, I'll be optimistic that he'll be able to play just fine through his hip, which really hasn't been his problem at all while he's played with us. None of his injuries, IIRC, are at all chronic. I think the Bulls said he came into the minicamp back down to his historical playing weight, and the highlights I saw, showed him looking pretty nimble.

I have not seen a picture of Otto since March.
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