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Way too early NBA draft thread 2021

Moderators: HomoSapien, Tommy Udo 6 , GimmeDat, dougthonus, DASMACKDOWN, Payt10, kulaz3000, fleet, RedBulls23, Ice Man, AshyLarrysDiaper

If we manage to get 3rd pick who do you draft?

Evan Mobley
16
14%
Jalen Suggs
69
58%
Terrence Clarke
1
1%
Jonathan Kuminga
10
8%
Ziaire Williams
1
1%
Usman Guruba
1
1%
Jalen Johnson
2
2%
Terrence Clarke
0
No votes
BJ Boston
2
2%
None of the Above
16
14%
 
Total votes: 118

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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1141 » by Am2626 » Sun May 2, 2021 5:17 am

AshyLarrysDiaper wrote:
Am2626 wrote:
AshyLarrysDiaper wrote:
This is all anecdotal. You could easily rattle off a list of 3 and 4 year players that washed out of the league. What’s the reason they failed? Too much college?

I think it’s safe to say college helps some guys and hurts others but since it’s virtually impossible to know who’s who, you leave it to the players to decide whether they want an unpaid internship before they join the league.


Did you hear what I said. End Amateurism. Elite prospects can make millions of dollars off their name. Let them sign shoe deals, get money off college jersey sales, video games that feature them, etc. That’s all good exposure for them as they get ready to be professional athletes. What college does is it weeds out the hype and exposes the flaws in prospects. It separates the guys that are the real deal. People shouldn’t make millions of dollars on hype and potential. They should make it on their ability.

The NBA is a private organization. They are under no obligation to lower their age limits. They have every right to do what they feel is best for their game. Drafting projects and spending millions of dollars to develop them and in many situations watch them blossom on another team isn’t in the team that drafted them best interest.



You’ve migrated from making the case that kids need college to learn life skills and “mature” to saying the NBA needs college to weed out the busts. That’s two different arguments. Can’t conflate them.

Fact is, there isn’t much (if any) evidence that college works out in the average player’s longterm interest, so let’s set that one aside. If there’s some analysis I’ve overlooked, feel free to share it.

As to whether the league needs college as an evaluation tool, I suspect NBA front offices would eventually get better at leveraging high school samples in their scouting. There’d be growing pains for sure. Less data is less data. But most of the world’s professional leagues do just fine without funneling 18 year olds into college for evaluation purposes. In fact, it seems most have decided that they sooner a prospect enters the professional ranks, the easier it is to see and shape their trajectory.

As for allowing kids to use their likeness, it’s a half measure. Just a peace offering from college power brokers hoping to delay the inevitable.


You have to agree that there is an incredible gap between high school basketball and the NBA. There is too big of a gap in competition for NBA scouts to properly evaluate how a high school star will project in the NBA. That player needs to perform at a more competitive stage to find out really how good he will be. That is why there have been so many high school to pro busts.

An 18 year old kid is far from being a finished product. I would say his next 4 years are extremely critical in what kind of professional career he ends up having. I never said that I was a proponent of college basketball for only one reason. It can serve many purposes and in my option does it better than any other Avenue (Ex: G League or Overseas).

Most athletes that dominate high school basketball aren’t going to be ready to compete from day one in the NBA. They just are not physically and mentally ready. I am personally not a fan of the G League. It will never provide the media stage that college basketball will provide and it isn’t about player development. It’s about teams and coaches pushing their agendas for their personal gain and winning games.

We can’t look at other professional sports when comparing it to basketball. Every sport is different. What works in a different sport may not work the same way in basketball.

I agree that there is a lot of things wrong with the NCAA. It is corrupt and backwards but ending Amatuerism will go a long way in terms of making things better.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1142 » by AshyLarrysDiaper » Sun May 2, 2021 3:02 pm

Am2626 wrote:
AshyLarrysDiaper wrote:
Am2626 wrote:
Did you hear what I said. End Amateurism. Elite prospects can make millions of dollars off their name. Let them sign shoe deals, get money off college jersey sales, video games that feature them, etc. That’s all good exposure for them as they get ready to be professional athletes. What college does is it weeds out the hype and exposes the flaws in prospects. It separates the guys that are the real deal. People shouldn’t make millions of dollars on hype and potential. They should make it on their ability.

The NBA is a private organization. They are under no obligation to lower their age limits. They have every right to do what they feel is best for their game. Drafting projects and spending millions of dollars to develop them and in many situations watch them blossom on another team isn’t in the team that drafted them best interest.



You’ve migrated from making the case that kids need college to learn life skills and “mature” to saying the NBA needs college to weed out the busts. That’s two different arguments. Can’t conflate them.

Fact is, there isn’t much (if any) evidence that college works out in the average player’s longterm interest, so let’s set that one aside. If there’s some analysis I’ve overlooked, feel free to share it.

As to whether the league needs college as an evaluation tool, I suspect NBA front offices would eventually get better at leveraging high school samples in their scouting. There’d be growing pains for sure. Less data is less data. But most of the world’s professional leagues do just fine without funneling 18 year olds into college for evaluation purposes. In fact, it seems most have decided that they sooner a prospect enters the professional ranks, the easier it is to see and shape their trajectory.

As for allowing kids to use their likeness, it’s a half measure. Just a peace offering from college power brokers hoping to delay the inevitable.


You have to agree that there is an incredible gap between high school basketball and the NBA. There is too big of a gap in competition for NBA scouts to properly evaluate how a high school star will project in the NBA. That player needs to perform at a more competitive stage to find out really how good he will be. That is why there have been so many high school to pro busts.

An 18 year old kid is far from being a finished product. I would say his next 4 years are extremely critical in what kind of professional career he ends up having. I never said that I was a proponent of college basketball for only one reason. It can serve many purposes and in my option does it better than any other Avenue (Ex: G League or Overseas).

Most athletes that dominate high school basketball aren’t going to be ready to compete from day one in the NBA. They just are not physically and mentally ready. I am personally not a fan of the G League. It will never provide the media stage that college basketball will provide and it isn’t about player development. It’s about teams and coaches pushing their agendas for their personal gain and winning games.

We can’t look at other professional sports when comparing it to basketball. Every sport is different. What works in a different sport may not work the same way in basketball.

I agree that there is a lot of things wrong with the NCAA. It is corrupt and backwards but ending Amatuerism will go a long way in terms of making things better.



The gap between HS and the NBA is too big for most but not for all. There are players drafted every year who would manage that leap just fine.

Is it difficult to know exactly who those kids m are coming straight out of high school? Sure. But part of that has to do with the fact NBA scouts aren’t allowed anywhere near them until they’re in college/overseas/g-league. In many many other sports the up-close evaluation begins far sooner. I never hear baseball whine about not having a one-and-done rule. Their scouts feel equipped to evaluate based on lower level play.

You’ll have to explain why other sports can’t be instructive here. Soccer, for example, is every bit as physical as basketball and the highest levels of that sport doesn’t impose an arbitrary age rule. Instead, they’ve developed multiple tiers of professional clubs which makes the leap into the man’s game far less jarring. You see that international basketball as well, but it’ll never happen here so long as the NCAA has a death grip.

Anyway, you and I both know this arrangement doesn’t have much time left. It’s so undeniably exploitative that it was bound to die one way or another.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1143 » by Am2626 » Sun May 2, 2021 4:06 pm

AshyLarrysDiaper wrote:
Am2626 wrote:
AshyLarrysDiaper wrote:

You’ve migrated from making the case that kids need college to learn life skills and “mature” to saying the NBA needs college to weed out the busts. That’s two different arguments. Can’t conflate them.

Fact is, there isn’t much (if any) evidence that college works out in the average player’s longterm interest, so let’s set that one aside. If there’s some analysis I’ve overlooked, feel free to share it.

As to whether the league needs college as an evaluation tool, I suspect NBA front offices would eventually get better at leveraging high school samples in their scouting. There’d be growing pains for sure. Less data is less data. But most of the world’s professional leagues do just fine without funneling 18 year olds into college for evaluation purposes. In fact, it seems most have decided that they sooner a prospect enters the professional ranks, the easier it is to see and shape their trajectory.

As for allowing kids to use their likeness, it’s a half measure. Just a peace offering from college power brokers hoping to delay the inevitable.


You have to agree that there is an incredible gap between high school basketball and the NBA. There is too big of a gap in competition for NBA scouts to properly evaluate how a high school star will project in the NBA. That player needs to perform at a more competitive stage to find out really how good he will be. That is why there have been so many high school to pro busts.

An 18 year old kid is far from being a finished product. I would say his next 4 years are extremely critical in what kind of professional career he ends up having. I never said that I was a proponent of college basketball for only one reason. It can serve many purposes and in my option does it better than any other Avenue (Ex: G League or Overseas).

Most athletes that dominate high school basketball aren’t going to be ready to compete from day one in the NBA. They just are not physically and mentally ready. I am personally not a fan of the G League. It will never provide the media stage that college basketball will provide and it isn’t about player development. It’s about teams and coaches pushing their agendas for their personal gain and winning games.

We can’t look at other professional sports when comparing it to basketball. Every sport is different. What works in a different sport may not work the same way in basketball.

I agree that there is a lot of things wrong with the NCAA. It is corrupt and backwards but ending Amatuerism will go a long way in terms of making things better.



The gap between HS and the NBA is too big for most but not for all. There are players drafted every year who would manage that leap just fine.

Is it difficult to know exactly who those kids m are coming straight out of high school? Sure. But part of that has to do with the fact NBA scouts aren’t allowed anywhere near them until they’re in college/overseas/g-league. In many many other sports the up-close evaluation begins far sooner. I never hear baseball whine about not having a one-and-done rule. Their scouts feel equipped to evaluate based on lower level play.

You’ll have to explain why other sports can’t be instructive here. Soccer, for example, is every bit as physical as basketball and the highest levels of that sport doesn’t impose an arbitrary age rule. Instead, they’ve developed multiple tiers of professional clubs which makes the leap into the man’s game far less jarring. You see that international basketball as well, but it’ll never happen here so long as the NCAA has a death grip.

Anyway, you and I both know this arrangement doesn’t have much time left. It’s so undeniably exploitative that it was bound to die one way or another.


What I don’t understand is in baseball and I think also in hockey a professional team can draft a player out of high school and that player can still go to college and maintain his college eligibility but that’s not possible in basketball. I don’t understand that double standard. Baseball doesn’t whine about a one and done rule because it doesn’t exist. There probably aren’t the same recruiting restrictions as well in baseball. The NCAA is a complete joke. Mark Emmert needs to be removed from his position.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1144 » by AshyLarrysDiaper » Sun May 2, 2021 4:51 pm

Am2626 wrote:
AshyLarrysDiaper wrote:
Am2626 wrote:
You have to agree that there is an incredible gap between high school basketball and the NBA. There is too big of a gap in competition for NBA scouts to properly evaluate how a high school star will project in the NBA. That player needs to perform at a more competitive stage to find out really how good he will be. That is why there have been so many high school to pro busts.

An 18 year old kid is far from being a finished product. I would say his next 4 years are extremely critical in what kind of professional career he ends up having. I never said that I was a proponent of college basketball for only one reason. It can serve many purposes and in my option does it better than any other Avenue (Ex: G League or Overseas).

Most athletes that dominate high school basketball aren’t going to be ready to compete from day one in the NBA. They just are not physically and mentally ready. I am personally not a fan of the G League. It will never provide the media stage that college basketball will provide and it isn’t about player development. It’s about teams and coaches pushing their agendas for their personal gain and winning games.

We can’t look at other professional sports when comparing it to basketball. Every sport is different. What works in a different sport may not work the same way in basketball.

I agree that there is a lot of things wrong with the NCAA. It is corrupt and backwards but ending Amatuerism will go a long way in terms of making things better.



The gap between HS and the NBA is too big for most but not for all. There are players drafted every year who would manage that leap just fine.

Is it difficult to know exactly who those kids m are coming straight out of high school? Sure. But part of that has to do with the fact NBA scouts aren’t allowed anywhere near them until they’re in college/overseas/g-league. In many many other sports the up-close evaluation begins far sooner. I never hear baseball whine about not having a one-and-done rule. Their scouts feel equipped to evaluate based on lower level play.

You’ll have to explain why other sports can’t be instructive here. Soccer, for example, is every bit as physical as basketball and the highest levels of that sport doesn’t impose an arbitrary age rule. Instead, they’ve developed multiple tiers of professional clubs which makes the leap into the man’s game far less jarring. You see that international basketball as well, but it’ll never happen here so long as the NCAA has a death grip.

Anyway, you and I both know this arrangement doesn’t have much time left. It’s so undeniably exploitative that it was bound to die one way or another.


What I don’t understand is in baseball and I think also in hockey a professional team can draft a player out of high school and that player can still go to college and maintain his college eligibility but that’s not possible in basketball. I don’t understand that double standard. Baseball doesn’t whine about a one and done rule because it doesn’t exist. There probably aren’t the same recruiting restrictions as well in baseball. The NCAA is a complete joke. Mark Emmert needs to be removed from his position.



I actually said baseball doesn't whine about not having a one and done rule.

I don't want to wander out of my depth since I'm not a baseball fan, but I believe draftees are allowed to go to college so they don't have to toil in the farm system if that's not what they want. To your earlier point, that's a tough life for many 18-year-olds, particularly if they're years away from getting called up, and college has its advantages as a developmental setting.

But they should have that choice. And honestly, I think much of the double standard around choices you can make in basketball vs baseball/hockey comes from:

a) March Madness rakes in TV dollars whereas televised college baseball & hockey don't, so the NCAA is more protective of its basketball players.
b) As a society we tolerate paternalism when it comes to black players more than we do white players.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1145 » by Leslie Forman » Tue May 4, 2021 11:28 pm

AshyLarrysDiaper wrote:b) As a society we tolerate paternalism when it comes to black players more than we do white players.

It's funny, the "American Dream" BS gets thrown around when some random uneducated immigrant with no money comes here and gets rich.

But a black kid from Englewood has an athletic talent worth millions and it's suddenly "woooaahhh buddy, are you sure you shouldn't go play for free for an old white man making several million dollars a year?"
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1147 » by Chicago-Bull-E » Thu May 6, 2021 5:46 pm

It seems less and less likely that 2022 will be a double draft.

Which means it will be weak, significantly weaker than 2021.

Another reason to hate the Vucevic deal, is the Bulls will likely keep their pick in 2022, which is a big heavy draft.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1148 » by SfBull » Thu May 6, 2021 8:35 pm

Chicago-Bull-E wrote:It seems less and less likely that 2022 will be a double draft.

Which means it will be weak, significantly weaker than 2021.

Another reason to hate the Vucevic deal, is the Bulls will likely keep their pick in 2022, which is a big heavy draft.

The. Bulls should find a way of getting a high draft pick.Perhaps shopping his best player.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1149 » by Almost Retired » Thu May 6, 2021 9:30 pm



Looks like Davion Mitchell will go off the board somewhere between 6 and 9. I figured he would. He's ready to step in and start on Day 1. I'd trade Lauri straight up for a chance to draft the kid. Davion is no passive beta role player. He gets after it every minute he's on the court....ESPECIALLY on the Defensive end. He would make a WORLD of difference on our squad. I'm so tired of one dimensional, half dimensional, and passive low BBIQ role players. Davion checks every box...defensively, offensively, intangibles.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1150 » by sco » Thu May 6, 2021 10:50 pm

Almost Retired wrote:


Looks like Davion Mitchell will go off the board somewhere between 6 and 9. I figured he would. He's ready to step in and start on Day 1. I'd trade Lauri straight up for a chance to draft the kid. Davion is no passive beta role player. He gets after it every minute he's on the court....ESPECIALLY on the Defensive end. He would make a WORLD of difference on our squad. I'm so tired of one dimensional, half dimensional, and passive low BBIQ role players. Davion checks every box...defensively, offensively, intangibles.

That statement is saying essentially that you'd offer nothing, but I'm guessing you meant "a lot". Would you trade Williams, because he's the only guy who has any value on the roster to nab a pick.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1151 » by SfBull » Fri May 7, 2021 12:09 am

sco wrote:
Almost Retired wrote:


Looks like Davion Mitchell will go off the board somewhere between 6 and 9. I figured he would. He's ready to step in and start on Day 1. I'd trade Lauri straight up for a chance to draft the kid. Davion is no passive beta role player. He gets after it every minute he's on the court....ESPECIALLY on the Defensive end. He would make a WORLD of difference on our squad. I'm so tired of one dimensional, half dimensional, and passive low BBIQ role players. Davion checks every box...defensively, offensively, intangibles.

That statement is saying essentially that you'd offer nothing, but I'm guessing you meant "a lot". Would you trade Williams, because he's the only guy who has any value on the roster to nab a pick.

I'd trade Williams for top 10 but I'm not sure some team would give up a chance for picking a good , perhaps great player in the draft for an unproven player like Pat.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1152 » by SfBull » Sun May 9, 2021 4:37 pm

Reading draft profiles makes me believe AK made a mistake giving our pick for
Vuc.This draft seems so be very strong for not having a frp.
A good deal in a wrong time.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1153 » by StunnerKO » Sun May 9, 2021 8:07 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=21


Read on Twitter
?s=21


https://youtu.be/GkQBsK-mpiM


Lets get him
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1154 » by Almost Retired » Sun May 9, 2021 9:23 pm

StunnerKO wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21


Read on Twitter
?s=21


https://youtu.be/GkQBsK-mpiM


Lets get him


He's small. Probably 6-0' and 170 pounds. I suppose if he's still on the Board when we pick in the 2nd round and Tre Mann and Isaiah Todd are off the Board.....
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1155 » by CoreyVillains » Mon May 10, 2021 12:32 pm

With every win we're obviously further from lottery luck and the potential to land either of these guys but regardless, I am a proud Davion Mitchell stan and I decided to put together a video of Davion's possessions on Cade from their matchup on 3/12. Cade still finished with an efficient 25 points for the game but there was a clear difference in the shots he was getting when guarded by Davion vs the rest of the Baylor defenders. I chose this game to highlight for Davion as I feel it is a good indicator for his defensive potential as a multi-position defender at the next level regardless of his lack of size.

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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1156 » by Am2626 » Mon May 10, 2021 3:53 pm

StunnerKO wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21


Read on Twitter
?s=21


https://youtu.be/GkQBsK-mpiM


Lets get him


Steph Curry played 3 years in college and Damian Lillard 4. This kid would be wise to come back for another year. Testing the draft waters is good but he’s going to find out that he is either not ready or just isn’t good enough.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1157 » by qianlong » Tue May 11, 2021 2:56 pm

sco wrote:
Almost Retired wrote:


Looks like Davion Mitchell will go off the board somewhere between 6 and 9. I figured he would. He's ready to step in and start on Day 1. I'd trade Lauri straight up for a chance to draft the kid. Davion is no passive beta role player. He gets after it every minute he's on the court....ESPECIALLY on the Defensive end. He would make a WORLD of difference on our squad. I'm so tired of one dimensional, half dimensional, and passive low BBIQ role players. Davion checks every box...defensively, offensively, intangibles.

That statement is saying essentially that you'd offer nothing, but I'm guessing you meant "a lot". Would you trade Williams, because he's the only guy who has any value on the roster to nab a pick.

I agree that Lauri today has no value due to this summer contract situation. I would be willing to work on something centered on White. With Zach not being a world beater defensively I think the team could benefit from a player like Mitchell.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1158 » by sco » Tue May 11, 2021 3:03 pm

qianlong wrote:
sco wrote:
Almost Retired wrote:
Looks like Davion Mitchell will go off the board somewhere between 6 and 9. I figured he would. He's ready to step in and start on Day 1. I'd trade Lauri straight up for a chance to draft the kid. Davion is no passive beta role player. He gets after it every minute he's on the court....ESPECIALLY on the Defensive end. He would make a WORLD of difference on our squad. I'm so tired of one dimensional, half dimensional, and passive low BBIQ role players. Davion checks every box...defensively, offensively, intangibles.

That statement is saying essentially that you'd offer nothing, but I'm guessing you meant "a lot". Would you trade Williams, because he's the only guy who has any value on the roster to nab a pick.

I agree that Lauri today has no value due to this summer contract situation. I would be willing to work on something centered on White. With Zach not being a world beater defensively I think the team could benefit from a player like Mitchell.

Pretty sure nobody is giving up a lotto pick for White. He hasn't shown enough to make teams think there's a lot of upside (or why would we consider trading him). Honestly, I'd trade White for a pick, even in the mid 20's.

I'm still pining for us to find a way to nab Isaiah Livers in the 2nd round. Like his UofM predecessor, Levert, before him, he dropped due to an injury, which IMO is our big opportunity.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1159 » by Almost Retired » Tue May 11, 2021 7:49 pm

sco wrote:
qianlong wrote:
sco wrote:That statement is saying essentially that you'd offer nothing, but I'm guessing you meant "a lot". Would you trade Williams, because he's the only guy who has any value on the roster to nab a pick.

I agree that Lauri today has no value due to this summer contract situation. I would be willing to work on something centered on White. With Zach not being a world beater defensively I think the team could benefit from a player like Mitchell.

Pretty sure nobody is giving up a lotto pick for White. He hasn't shown enough to make teams think there's a lot of upside (or why would we consider trading him). Honestly, I'd trade White for a pick, even in the mid 20's.

I'm still pining for us to find a way to nab Isaiah Livers in the 2nd round. Like his UofM predecessor, Levert, before him, he dropped due to an injury, which IMO is our big opportunity.


Admittedly I didn't watch a lot of Michigan games. But the ones I did watch I can't say that Livers stood out in any way, neither defensively or offensively. There are other 2nd Rounders with more upside. Tre Mann and Isaiah Todd to name two of them. i looked at 3 or 4 mocks. Most of them show Livers going at the very end of the 2nd Round. I'm not sure if Tre Mann will be there when we make our 2nd Round selection. But if he is we have to consider him. He was a McDonalds All American heading into college. He started slowly as a Freshman but really picked up his game this year. Decent shooter. Not a defensive stiff. He rebounds well for a guard. He's athletic enough, though not elite. He's only 20. He needs coaching but he's on an improvement trajectory.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1160 » by sco » Tue May 11, 2021 7:52 pm

Almost Retired wrote:
sco wrote:
qianlong wrote:I agree that Lauri today has no value due to this summer contract situation. I would be willing to work on something centered on White. With Zach not being a world beater defensively I think the team could benefit from a player like Mitchell.

Pretty sure nobody is giving up a lotto pick for White. He hasn't shown enough to make teams think there's a lot of upside (or why would we consider trading him). Honestly, I'd trade White for a pick, even in the mid 20's.

I'm still pining for us to find a way to nab Isaiah Livers in the 2nd round. Like his UofM predecessor, Levert, before him, he dropped due to an injury, which IMO is our big opportunity.


Admittedly I didn't watch a lot of Michigan games. But the ones I did watch I can't say that Livers stood out in any way, neither defensively or offensively. There are other 2nd Rounders with more upside. Tre Mann and Isaiah Todd to name two of them. i looked at 3 or 4 mocks. Most of them show Livers going at the very end of the 2nd Round. I'm not sure if Tre Mann will be there when we make our 2nd Round selection. But if he is we have to consider him. He was a McDonalds All American heading into college. He started slowly as a Freshman but really picked up his game this year. Decent shooter. Not a defensive stiff. He rebounds well for a guard. He's athletic enough, though not elite. He's only 20. He needs coaching but he's on an improvement trajectory.

Livers isn't a first options scorer, but he's a 3 level scorer, tough defender and good rebounder.
:clap:

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