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Way too early NBA draft thread 2021

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If we manage to get 3rd pick who do you draft?

Evan Mobley
17
13%
Jalen Suggs
83
61%
Terrence Clarke
1
1%
Jonathan Kuminga
10
7%
Ziaire Williams
1
1%
Usman Guruba
1
1%
Jalen Johnson
2
1%
Terrence Clarke
0
No votes
BJ Boston
3
2%
None of the Above
17
13%
 
Total votes: 135

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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1261 » by Am2626 » Mon May 31, 2021 3:35 am

GimmeDat wrote:
PlayerUp wrote:You have about as good of a chance at finding a gem in the G League than you do in the 2nd Round. Bulls haven't drafted a quality role player in the 2nd Round in a decade (Omer Asik). Don't put too much effort into worrying about who we take in the 2nd Round.


Daniel Gafford was a very good pickup.

Good team's maximize the margins. Just because we haven't drafted a lot of difference makers in the 2nd round lately doesn't mean there isn't value to be found.


I think Gafford’s success has more to do with Westbrook making him a better player than the ability of Gafford himself. If the Bulls bring in a good playmaking PG like Conley Jr. Gafford could have seen similar success in Chicago.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1262 » by DuckIII » Mon May 31, 2021 3:49 am

The distinction I’m making is between a fan and someone actually in the FO. The latter should not be dismissive of second round picks. They need to take them seriously and take the best they think they can based on legitimate analysis.

But as a fan I pay little attention. If they pan out it’s found gold.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1263 » by heir_jordan22 » Mon May 31, 2021 7:07 am

GarPax thought second round picks had 0 value. That's why they always traded them for cash. I personally think that they're idiots, so if they think 2nd round picks have no value, then the picks have value.

If you scout properly and actually rank the players instead of throwing darts at a board the way GarPax did, then your bound to get a good player every once in a while in the second round.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1264 » by League Circles » Tue Jun 1, 2021 1:41 am

What do people think we could get for Coby White, straight up trade, in this draft. Top ten pick possibly?
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1265 » by sco » Tue Jun 1, 2021 2:32 pm

League Circles wrote:What do people think we could get for Coby White, straight up trade, in this draft. Top ten pick possibly?

NFW. What team would want him? For what role?

Best case, someone has a capable starting PG who is a good distributor/defender who also needs a starting SG.

IMO his "value" given his skill/years left on rookie deal is a late teens/early 20's pick - maybe.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1266 » by Chicago-Bull-E » Tue Jun 1, 2021 2:58 pm

sco wrote:
League Circles wrote:What do people think we could get for Coby White, straight up trade, in this draft. Top ten pick possibly?

NFW. What team would want him? For what role?

Best case, someone has a capable starting PG who is a good distributor/defender who also needs a starting SG.

IMO his "value" given his skill/years left on rookie deal is a late teens/early 20's pick - maybe.


Yup, I'd have him in the 20-25 range.

If the Bulls have good intel they're getting Ball (not sure it's very realistic, but let's play that out), and a good wing prospect was available, you'd have to think about pulling the trigger. Kispert, JJ, or Zaire WIlliams falls there, I like the roster makeup a bit better. Those prospects are maligned/polarizing, but that's why they're available in the 20s (before someone tells me how much they hate one of those guys) This team needs talent at the 3 IMO.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1267 » by League Circles » Tue Jun 1, 2021 6:14 pm

Chicago-Bull-E wrote:
sco wrote:
League Circles wrote:What do people think we could get for Coby White, straight up trade, in this draft. Top ten pick possibly?

NFW. What team would want him? For what role?

Best case, someone has a capable starting PG who is a good distributor/defender who also needs a starting SG.

IMO his "value" given his skill/years left on rookie deal is a late teens/early 20's pick - maybe.


Yup, I'd have him in the 20-25 range.

If the Bulls have good intel they're getting Ball (not sure it's very realistic, but let's play that out), and a good wing prospect was available, you'd have to think about pulling the trigger. Kispert, JJ, or Zaire WIlliams falls there, I like the roster makeup a bit better. Those prospects are maligned/polarizing, but that's why they're available in the 20s (before someone tells me how much they hate one of those guys) This team needs talent at the 3 IMO.

Good God, so a 21 year old picked where he was projected by most mock drafts, who have shown a lot of flashes in 2 years, drops that far????? No wonder nba teams are run so poorly. Most of them chronically overrate draft picks. I understand why he might fall, but I gotta think he'll end up being better than most players drafted outside the top 10 or so.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1268 » by sco » Tue Jun 1, 2021 6:50 pm

League Circles wrote:
Chicago-Bull-E wrote:
sco wrote:NFW. What team would want him? For what role?

Best case, someone has a capable starting PG who is a good distributor/defender who also needs a starting SG.

IMO his "value" given his skill/years left on rookie deal is a late teens/early 20's pick - maybe.


Yup, I'd have him in the 20-25 range.

If the Bulls have good intel they're getting Ball (not sure it's very realistic, but let's play that out), and a good wing prospect was available, you'd have to think about pulling the trigger. Kispert, JJ, or Zaire WIlliams falls there, I like the roster makeup a bit better. Those prospects are maligned/polarizing, but that's why they're available in the 20s (before someone tells me how much they hate one of those guys) This team needs talent at the 3 IMO.

Good God, so a 21 year old picked where he was projected by most mock drafts, who have shown a lot of flashes in 2 years, drops that far????? No wonder nba teams are run so poorly. Most of them chronically overrate draft picks. I understand why he might fall, but I gotta think he'll end up being better than most players drafted outside the top 10 or so.

Your points are the key ones. It is easy and logical to assume that lotto picks retain some residual value based on their draft position and pre-NBA scouting - especially younger guys. No disagreement that Coby has shown flashes over 2 years.

That said, IMO, all pre-draft scouting and draft position should be heavily, heavily discounted by actual NBA performance. And while Coby has had decent games, if I were another GM, I would decide based on:

1) He seems to lack the ball handling and passing/vision to be considered a potentially top 15 PG.
2) He lacks the ability to finish at the rim to be considered a potentially top 15 SG.
3) He lacks the defensive ability to be a 2-way player

So that leaves me with "run of the mill" combo guard.

If it were my pick in the 20's, I would likely say "There's a good chance this guy isn't as good as Coby, but I'd rather take that chance than have a guy that's only as good as Coby is likely to be."
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1269 » by Chicago-Bull-E » Tue Jun 1, 2021 7:27 pm

sco wrote:
League Circles wrote:
Chicago-Bull-E wrote:
Yup, I'd have him in the 20-25 range.

If the Bulls have good intel they're getting Ball (not sure it's very realistic, but let's play that out), and a good wing prospect was available, you'd have to think about pulling the trigger. Kispert, JJ, or Zaire WIlliams falls there, I like the roster makeup a bit better. Those prospects are maligned/polarizing, but that's why they're available in the 20s (before someone tells me how much they hate one of those guys) This team needs talent at the 3 IMO.

Good God, so a 21 year old picked where he was projected by most mock drafts, who have shown a lot of flashes in 2 years, drops that far????? No wonder nba teams are run so poorly. Most of them chronically overrate draft picks. I understand why he might fall, but I gotta think he'll end up being better than most players drafted outside the top 10 or so.

Your points are the key ones. It is easy and logical to assume that lotto picks retain some residual value based on their draft position and pre-NBA scouting - especially younger guys. No disagreement that Coby has shown flashes over 2 years.

That said, IMO, all pre-draft scouting and draft position should be heavily, heavily discounted by actual NBA performance. And while Coby has had decent games, if I were another GM, I would decide based on:

1) He seems to lack the ball handling and passing/vision to be considered a potentially top 15 PG.
2) He lacks the ability to finish at the rim to be considered a potentially top 15 SG.
3) He lacks the defensive ability to be a 2-way player

So that leaves me with "run of the mill" combo guard.

If it were my pick in the 20's, I would likely say "There's a good chance this guy isn't as good as Coby, but I'd rather take that chance than have a guy that's only as good as Coby is likely to be."



To add, Coby has 2 more years of cost controlled contract. All rookies will have 4, that makes a decent enough difference for a few draft spots. 4 years of contract for this Coby is a little higher probably, 16-20.

His offensive numbers are all run of the mill. 42% fg and 36% 3ptfg are run of the mill scoring guard. His TS% is below league average. And these are his STRENGTHS. He's a doormat defensively, and his turnover to assist ratio isn't very good. So you're left with an average scorer who does little else. Those are a dime a dozen.

Not to say he can't get better, but he would need to in order to be taken seriously.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1270 » by heir_jordan22 » Wed Jun 2, 2021 7:38 am

League Circles wrote:What do people think we could get for Coby White, straight up trade, in this draft. Top ten pick possibly?

Hell no. He'll only have 2 years left on his rookie contract and he's pretty much shown that he's a bench scorer. I would guess just outside of the lottery at best.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1271 » by Hold That » Thu Jun 3, 2021 1:09 am

Coby whites value is probably somewhere between 12-18 pick range.. and if it’s not I’d much rather keep him. At worst he’s a Lou Williams off the bench if he learns to embrace that role full time. Jordan Clarkson,Lou Williams, Jamal Crawford all these guys do is one thing, which is score. None are known for defense so with Cobys ability to score .low ceiling, high floor guy.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1272 » by heir_jordan22 » Thu Jun 3, 2021 7:16 am

Cunningham or Suggs, and why?
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1273 » by PlayerUp » Sat Jun 5, 2021 4:45 pm

Hold That wrote:Coby whites value is probably somewhere between 12-18 pick range


He's worth a bit more than that. This draft is pretty lousy outside the Top 5.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1274 » by sco » Sat Jun 5, 2021 5:42 pm

PlayerUp wrote:
Hold That wrote:Coby whites value is probably somewhere between 12-18 pick range


He's worth a bit more than that. This draft is pretty lousy outside the Top 5.

Honestly, I'd do anything up to about 24
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1275 » by pipfan » Sat Jun 5, 2021 6:18 pm

I like Coby, but would trust the FO if they want to move him for a pick. Doubt it will happen
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1276 » by Almost Retired » Sat Jun 5, 2021 7:19 pm

heir_jordan22 wrote:Cunningham or Suggs, and why?


If I had the choice I'd have to pick Cade. Without getting deep into statistics I think Cade provides more flexibility. He's got more length. He could play PG or SF. Personally I'd play him at the "3" on our team and try Coby as a catch and shoot PG and third ball handler. Take the decision making out of Coby's hands and let Cade be the primary playmaker. A lineup of Zach, Coby, Cade, PAW and Vooch might be pretty strong offensively. We'd still lack a good on the ball defender at either guard spot, though Zach is looking better and better on the defensive end. But I would not want to rely on Zach too heavily on the defensive end. You want to preserve his energy for the offensive end because he is just so gifted offensively when he's on. Cade can become an above average defender. Cade is also a better shooter than Suggs at this stage. Cade is a real triple threat offensively. He would have to tighten his handles in the NBA. His assist to turnover ration was a negative for him last year.

I could make a good case for Suggs as well. But he'd have to play PG. He doesn't have the length to play SF. So that puts Coby on the bench as the 6th man. Suggs is a good on ball defender. And he's good at drawing fouls which is a weak spot of our team. He'd be a dynamic player to add next to Zach. That duo would be adequate or better defensively. And that would relegate PAW to the "3" unless TBJ can play his way into the starting lineup. I have no problem with Patrick at the "3" as long as he shows more willingness to be a meaningful part of the offense.

It's a real coin toss for us. But I think Cade is just a better addition with more potential offensively long term. But I'd be thrilled as hell if the Bulls got lucky and drafted either guy.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1277 » by heir_jordan22 » Sun Jun 6, 2021 3:56 am

Almost Retired wrote:
heir_jordan22 wrote:Cunningham or Suggs, and why?


If I had the choice I'd have to pick Cade. Without getting deep into statistics I think Cade provides more flexibility. He's got more length. He could play PG or SF. Personally I'd play him at the "3" on our team and try Coby as a catch and shoot PG and third ball handler. Take the decision making out of Coby's hands and let Cade be the primary playmaker. A lineup of Zach, Coby, Cade, PAW and Vooch might be pretty strong offensively. We'd still lack a good on the ball defender at either guard spot, though Zach is looking better and better on the defensive end. But I would not want to rely on Zach too heavily on the defensive end. You want to preserve his energy for the offensive end because he is just so gifted offensively when he's on. Cade can become an above average defender. Cade is also a better shooter than Suggs at this stage. Cade is a real triple threat offensively. He would have to tighten his handles in the NBA. His assist to turnover ration was a negative for him last year.

I could make a good case for Suggs as well. But he'd have to play PG. He doesn't have the length to play SF. So that puts Coby on the bench as the 6th man. Suggs is a good on ball defender. And he's good at drawing fouls which is a weak spot of our team. He'd be a dynamic player to add next to Zach. That duo would be adequate or better defensively. And that would relegate PAW to the "3" unless TBJ can play his way into the starting lineup. I have no problem with Patrick at the "3" as long as he shows more willingness to be a meaningful part of the offense.

It's a real coin toss for us. But I think Cade is just a better addition with more potential offensively long term. But I'd be thrilled as hell if the Bulls got lucky and drafted either guy.

I think this is a pretty good assessment. Two things that Suggs does much better than Cunningham right now are being a floor general and defending at the point of attack. I think Suggs is just a notch below Doncic and Ball as a playmaker. And he's not the best shooter coming out but I think his scoring potential is still 20+ppg.

Short-term I think Suggs is a better fit. I also think Coby is built to be a sixth man offensive spark and Williams is a 4th option starter. But it's has the potential to be one of the top scorers in the league.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1278 » by Leslie Forman » Sun Jun 6, 2021 9:46 pm

PlayerUp wrote:
Hold That wrote:Coby whites value is probably somewhere between 12-18 pick range


He's worth a bit more than that. This draft is pretty lousy outside the Top 5.

Potentially lousy players are far more desired in this league than proven lousy players.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1279 » by DuckIII » Mon Jun 7, 2021 1:38 am

Leslie Forman wrote:
PlayerUp wrote:
Hold That wrote:Coby whites value is probably somewhere between 12-18 pick range


He's worth a bit more than that. This draft is pretty lousy outside the Top 5.

Potentially lousy players are far more desired in this league than proven lousy players.


Additionally, this draft isn’t at all lousy outside the top 5. This is a deep draft pretty late into the first round.
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Re: Way too early NBA draft thread 2021 

Post#1280 » by Almost Retired » Mon Jun 7, 2021 4:06 am

DuckIII wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:
PlayerUp wrote:
He's worth a bit more than that. This draft is pretty lousy outside the Top 5.

Potentially lousy players are far more desired in this league than proven lousy players.


Additionally, this draft isn’t at all lousy outside the top 5. This is a deep draft pretty late into the first round.


I'd say even into the Top half of the Second Round. Guys that MIGHT be available in the 2nd Round according to some Mock Drafts: Johny Juzang, Joel Ayayi, Miles McBride, Kofi Cockburn, my personal favorite Isaiah Todd, Josh Christopher, Charles Bassey, Brandon Boston, Raiquan Gray, Herb Jones, Daishen Nix, RJ Nembhard, Greg Brown, Aaron Henry, David Duke, Rokas Jokunbaitis, Isaiah Mobley if he comes out, Ariel Hukporti as a stash prospect, Max Abmas, Juhann Begarin, Filip Petrusev, Isaiah Livers, Quentin Grimes. Not all these guys are going to make the leap and stick to become rotation players. But they merit serious evaluation prior to the Draft. I could see a player like Todd be a valuable rotation piece or starter after a couple years of development. He's got size, handles for his height, streaky shooting ability, a good motor. He's not a starter in Year 1. But by Year 3 he might challenge for a starting slot. It depends on who drafts him and what their development coaches can get out of him. I know I'd love to see the Bulls Draft him with 2nd Rounder if Tre Mann is off the table (and I expect he will be by late in the 1st Round)

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