Around the NBA: 2020-21 Season

[MrSparkle]

If that were true then he would have been traded at the draft

I mean that's when his value was at the lowest. I think they're going to pump up his value and then possibly trade him. Depends on what they think about him long term.

Value is higher when there are assets to trade. There’s a reason why most deals happen in the offseason. Teams want a guy when they can work him in for a whole season, training camp, etc.

If you pump him up, that means he’s doing well and you will want to re-sign him.

Lauri’s value was complete garbage. Pretty sure if a top-20 pick was offered, Bulls would’ve taken it, but no one’s giving up a cheap 4y prospect for an expiring RFA who wants to start, get touches and $20m salary.

Unless a team is 110% committed to a player, you are worse off dealing with an extension negotiation. An extension negotiation establishes mutual respect; nobody in their right mind would give Lauri 80/4 after last year, so I don’t see the benefit getting him on draft night - I imagine every team in the NBA will wait to see if he improves, let him test the market and properly evaluate if they should offer/match.

[cjbulls]

I mean that's when his value was at the lowest. I think they're going to pump up his value and then possibly trade him. Depends on what they think about him long term.

Value is higher when there are assets to trade. There’s a reason why most deals happen in the offseason. Teams want a guy when they can work him in for a whole season, training camp, etc.

If you pump him up, that means he’s doing well and you will want to re-sign him.

Lauri’s value was complete garbage. Pretty sure if a top-20 pick was offered, Bulls would’ve taken it, but no one’s giving up a cheap 4y prospect for an expiring RFA who wants to start, get touches and $20m salary.

Unless a team is 110% committed to a player, you are worse off dealing with an extension negotiation. An extension negotiation establishes mutual respect; nobody in their right mind would give Lauri 80/4 after last year, so I don’t see the benefit getting him on draft night - they can get him if he improves. Let him test the market and properly evaluate if they should match.

His name was originally mentioned in a trade up but the Bulls supposedly pulled it. I can all but guarantee Boston would have traded 14 for it. Kennard went for #19.

Teams like Boston can’t get him if he improves. They are over the cap. This lets them test him for a year, and pay him whatever over the cap on top of RFA matching.

[TheStig]

If that were true then he would have been traded at the draft

I mean that's when his value was at the lowest. I think they're going to pump up his value and then possibly trade him. Depends on what they think about him long term.

Value is higher when there are assets to trade. There’s a reason why most deals happen in the offseason. Teams want a guy when they can work him in for a whole season, training camp, etc.

If you pump him up, that means he’s doing well and you will want to re-sign him.

Again, it depends on if they view him as a long term piece.

And they just got there in the offseason. When was AK/ME/BD supposed to pump up his value?

[MrSparkle]

Value is higher when there are assets to trade. There’s a reason why most deals happen in the offseason. Teams want a guy when they can work him in for a whole season, training camp, etc.

If you pump him up, that means he’s doing well and you will want to re-sign him.

Lauri’s value was complete garbage. Pretty sure if a top-20 pick was offered, Bulls would’ve taken it, but no one’s giving up a cheap 4y prospect for an expiring RFA who wants to start, get touches and $20m salary.

Unless a team is 110% committed to a player, you are worse off dealing with an extension negotiation. An extension negotiation establishes mutual respect; nobody in their right mind would give Lauri 80/4 after last year, so I don’t see the benefit getting him on draft night - they can get him if he improves. Let him test the market and properly evaluate if they should match.

His name was originally mentioned in a trade up but the Bulls supposedly pulled it. I can all but guarantee Boston would have traded 14 for it. Kennard went for #19.

Teams like Boston can’t get him if he improves. They are over the cap. This lets them test him for a year, and pay him whatever over the cap on top of RFA matching.

Why can't they trade for him? They even have a $27m TPE from the Hayward trade, not to mention tons of trade-able salaries.

I highly doubt Danny Ainge was offering #14 Nesmith straight-up for Lauri. Lol - he was probably busy offering that pick and Romeo Langford for Harden, knowing his style.

And I don't know why Kennard keeps getting **** on. He has some creation abilities, shot 40% from the arc, blistering 90% FTs, averaged a respectable 16/4, can defend his position, and as opposed to 2 consecutive seasons of decline, he actually showed 2 consecutive seasons of drastic improvement.

[cjbulls]

Lauri’s value was complete garbage. Pretty sure if a top-20 pick was offered, Bulls would’ve taken it, but no one’s giving up a cheap 4y prospect for an expiring RFA who wants to start, get touches and $20m salary.

Unless a team is 110% committed to a player, you are worse off dealing with an extension negotiation. An extension negotiation establishes mutual respect; nobody in their right mind would give Lauri 80/4 after last year, so I don’t see the benefit getting him on draft night - they can get him if he improves. Let him test the market and properly evaluate if they should match.

His name was originally mentioned in a trade up but the Bulls supposedly pulled it. I can all but guarantee Boston would have traded 14 for it. Kennard went for #19.

Teams like Boston can’t get him if he improves. They are over the cap. This lets them test him for a year, and pay him whatever over the cap on top of RFA matching.

Why can't they trade for him? They even have a $27m TPE from the Hayward trade, not to mention tons of trade-able salaries.

Oh, you’re talking about mid season, sorry. Yes, but then they don’t have time to fully work him into their offense, understand his fit, etc. so the interest is more limited unless Lauri really steps up (at which point, the Bulls will want to keep him). Nor will they be picking that high again so the pick is worse.

The only way it could work is if Nesmith or Romeo really showed something, but neither is appetizing to me as a Bulls prospect right now.

[MGB8]

A lot of teams are going to have a lot of regret about these extensions. Christian Wood’s contract now looking like a steal. Ditto Gallo and Bogs. Heck, so are Thad Young and Sato.

[Andi Obst]

The Anunoby deal is a steal for the Raptors. He's worth that money even if he doesn't improve one bit. Also love the Derrick White extension. Kennard is a risk, but when healthy he'll be very valuable for the Clippers.

The Orlando extensions are a little tougher. Healthy Isaac is easily worth more than 4/80, but you're putting a lot of trust in his health after two bad injuries in a row. Maybe there are some injury protections for the Magic in that deal (like in Embiid's contract)? That would be enough for me to justify the contract. Fultz' new deal could go either way, but with the TO l at least don't hate it. They have him under contract through Cole Anthony's rookie deal and then probably decide who they view as the point guard of their future. They're locked in to a team which I don't think can be more than "competitive enough". That's probably okay for them considering their roster moves though.

[ZOMG]

At the end of the day giving 16 mil to Lauri should've been a total non-issue for the Bulls. Definitely not an overpay for a guy who averaged 19 and 9 in his second season.

Everyone keeps waving around the 20 mil price tag as if there's any proof that Lauri wanted that much. All he'd said was that he wanted to stay and pushed his agent to get an extension done. From his previous interviews, we know that he's not a big money guy.

If the Bulls really played hardball with their 11 million or whatever (remember, we have zero facts), they're even more stupid than I thought.

[ZOMG]

The Suns have claimed Frank Kaminsky off waivers, per Wiretap.

Waiting to hear he's signing for more than Lauri Markkanen.

[MGB8]

Has anyone been tracking what the impact of all these extensions has been on the number of teams that have cap room next year?

I think folks are still thinking that there are going to be a ton of teams with lots of cap room, but I can't really think of many - in large part due to free agency and these extensions. In fact, I think that the "big" FAs getting locked up is what triggered a lot of the extensions.

As far as I can tell, the teams with legit cap space next season are Bulls, Knicks, Thunder, Hornets, Spurs, and to a lesser extent, the Cavs (just under 80M accounted for, with no rookie deals expiring but little more that is sheddable and Drummond, Exum FAs).

While that's 6 teams with at least a max contract in space, that doesn't tell you the full picture. For example, the Spurs team, even with the overpaying of Derrick White, will have a ton of cap space - but that's because their top 4 "veteran" players - Aldridge, Derozan, Gay and Mills are all FAs.

The Hornets have space similar to the Bulls, but need to bring back DeVonte Graham - though that can probably be done in a way that allows them to maximize cap room due to a very small cap hold for him - and wouldn't have a starting center (Zeller is a FA).

So basically it will be the Knicks and Thunder with an ungodly amount of room, followed by the Bulls with a significant amount of room, and then the Spurs with lots of room but basically an empty roster outside of Murray, White, youngins Vassell, Walker and Johnson, and Poeltl, along with the Hornets... and I guess Cavs (but, seriously, Cleveland?).

[imagge]

Has anyone been tracking what the impact of all these extensions has been on the number of teams that have cap room next year?

I think folks are still thinking that there are going to be a ton of teams with lots of cap room, but I can't really think of many - in large part due to free agency and these extensions. In fact, I think that the "big" FAs getting locked up is what triggered a lot of the extensions.

As far as I can tell, the teams with legit cap space next season are Bulls, Knicks, Thunder, Hornets, Spurs, and to a lesser extent, the Cavs (just under 80M accounted for, with no rookie deals expiring but little more that is sheddable and Drummond, Exum FAs).

While that's 6 teams with at least a max contract in space, that doesn't tell you the full picture. For example, the Spurs team, even with the overpaying of Derrick White, will have a ton of cap space - but that's because their top 4 "veteran" players - Aldridge, Derozan, Gay and Mills are all FAs.

The Hornets have space similar to the Bulls, but need to bring back DeVonte Graham - though that can probably be done in a way that allows them to maximize cap room due to a very small cap hold for him - and wouldn't have a starting center (Zeller is a FA).

So basically it will be the Knicks and Thunder with an ungodly amount of room, followed by the Bulls with a significant amount of room, and then the Spurs with lots of room but basically an empty roster outside of Murray, White, youngins Vassell, Walker and Johnson, and Poeltl, along with the Hornets... and I guess Cavs (but, seriously, Cleveland?).

Most of these extensions were rookie extensions, so I thought they would not kick in until the year after next since most have their 5th year locked guaranteed last season?

[imagge]

Rookie extensions don't kick in until 22-23 season.....Scratch that they do kick in next season

[MGB8]

Has anyone been tracking what the impact of all these extensions has been on the number of teams that have cap room next year?

I think folks are still thinking that there are going to be a ton of teams with lots of cap room, but I can't really think of many - in large part due to free agency and these extensions. In fact, I think that the "big" FAs getting locked up is what triggered a lot of the extensions.

As far as I can tell, the teams with legit cap space next season are Bulls, Knicks, Thunder, Hornets, Spurs, and to a lesser extent, the Cavs (just under 80M accounted for, with no rookie deals expiring but little more that is sheddable and Drummond, Exum FAs).

While that's 6 teams with at least a max contract in space, that doesn't tell you the full picture. For example, the Spurs team, even with the overpaying of Derrick White, will have a ton of cap space - but that's because their top 4 "veteran" players - Aldridge, Derozan, Gay and Mills are all FAs.

The Hornets have space similar to the Bulls, but need to bring back DeVonte Graham - though that can probably be done in a way that allows them to maximize cap room due to a very small cap hold for him - and wouldn't have a starting center (Zeller is a FA).

So basically it will be the Knicks and Thunder with an ungodly amount of room, followed by the Bulls with a significant amount of room, and then the Spurs with lots of room but basically an empty roster outside of Murray, White, youngins Vassell, Walker and Johnson, and Poeltl, along with the Hornets... and I guess Cavs (but, seriously, Cleveland?).

Most of these extensions were rookie extensions, so I thought they would not kick in until the year after next since most have their 5th year locked guaranteed last season?

Derrick White was going to be a FA next season. So was OG Anunoby. Ditto Jonathan Isaac and Markell Fultz. Even Luke Kennard.

[cjbulls]

Read on Twitter

[cjbulls]

Has anyone been tracking what the impact of all these extensions has been on the number of teams that have cap room next year?

I think folks are still thinking that there are going to be a ton of teams with lots of cap room, but I can't really think of many - in large part due to free agency and these extensions. In fact, I think that the "big" FAs getting locked up is what triggered a lot of the extensions.

As far as I can tell, the teams with legit cap space next season are Bulls, Knicks, Thunder, Hornets, Spurs, and to a lesser extent, the Cavs (just under 80M accounted for, with no rookie deals expiring but little more that is sheddable and Drummond, Exum FAs).

While that's 6 teams with at least a max contract in space, that doesn't tell you the full picture. For example, the Spurs team, even with the overpaying of Derrick White, will have a ton of cap space - but that's because their top 4 "veteran" players - Aldridge, Derozan, Gay and Mills are all FAs.

The Hornets have space similar to the Bulls, but need to bring back DeVonte Graham - though that can probably be done in a way that allows them to maximize cap room due to a very small cap hold for him - and wouldn't have a starting center (Zeller is a FA).

So basically it will be the Knicks and Thunder with an ungodly amount of room, followed by the Bulls with a significant amount of room, and then the Spurs with lots of room but basically an empty roster outside of Murray, White, youngins Vassell, Walker and Johnson, and Poeltl, along with the Hornets... and I guess Cavs (but, seriously, Cleveland?).

This was my guesstimate of teams with $20M plus space based on a month old Athletic article and then some rough math to account for their signings this offseason.


Chicago
New York
Toronto
Miami
San Antonio
Cleveland
Charlotte
Dallas
OKC
Detroit
Sacramento
New Orleans

You are right that some of these teams have their own guys to sign. But since we put Lonzo and Graham and whoever into the FA list, we should put the team in as well. There are no clear re-signings with Charlotte having Ball and Rozier and New Orleans having 9 point guards, for example.

[Chi town]

A lot of teams are going to have a lot of regret about these extensions. Christian Wood’s contract now looking like a steal. Ditto Gallo and Bogs. Heck, so are Thad Young and Sato.

Wood is a bargain. I’d take him at 13M over Lauri.

[aramada]

The Athletic's article from this morning with 3 scouts asked to evaluate the Bulls' key protagonists is (unsurprisingly) showing how bad we are rated around the league:
Donovan - we don't know who he is without superstars. He will have to coach a lot more. He's definitely a big step up over Boylen, though
Zach - Talented scorer, not a #1 option on a good team. One scout says "soft, not a leader". One scout still believes he has it
White - Skeptical about his ability to take the step as a playmaker. One scout says he's just a scorer off the bench
Otto - "Got big, is it muscle?". A fine player but his big contract puts too much spotlight on him. Too injured to be reliable
Lauri - the usual narrative about not being used properly. One scout is anti-Lauri - says he/she watched him live multiple times and haven't seen it with him. All agree he has to make shots, but he may be soft mentally
WCJ - "still don't know what he is". They see some of his skills and character, but injuries and Boylen schemes hurt his development
Williams - has skills and athleticism but nothing elite. One scout was shocked he went #4 - don't see it with him
All agree to no playoffs, maybe play-in

My takeaway here is a lot of in-season development is needed and everyone is skeptical there will be a lot of wins to keep the confidence high. Donovan's schemes will be key but he may be limited in how much he can achieve with the current make up of the roster...
Staying pat is not a great look for the FO. I'm not sure placing that much hope on Coby making everyone better is right. They should have been aggressive in pursuing a vet playmaker like Paul or Rubio, who would have made the young guys' life easier

[ZOMG]

The Athletic's article from this morning with 3 scouts asked to evaluate the Bulls' key protagonists is (unsurprisingly) showing how bad we are rated around the league:
Donovan - we don't know who he is without superstars. He will have to coach a lot more. He's definitely a big step up over Boylen, though
Zach - Talented scorer, not a #1 option on a good team. One scout says "soft, not a leader". One scout still believes he has it
White - Skeptical about his ability to take the step as a playmaker. One scout says he's just a scorer off the bench
Otto - "Got big, is it muscle?". A fine player but his big contract puts too much spotlight on him. Too injured to be reliable
Lauri - the usual narrative about not being used properly. One scout is anti-Lauri - says he/she watched him live multiple times and haven't seen it with him. All agree he has to make shots, but he may be soft mentally
WCJ - "still don't know what he is". They see some of his skills and character, but injuries and Boylen schemes hurt his development
Williams - has skills and athleticism but nothing elite. One scout was shocked he went #4 - don't see it with him
All agree to no playoffs, maybe play-in

My takeaway here is a lot of in-season development is needed and everyone is skeptical there will be a lot of wins to keep the confidence high. Donovan's schemes will be key but he may be limited in how much he can achieve with the current make up of the roster...
Staying pat is not a great look for the FO. I'm not sure placing that much hope on Coby making everyone better is right. They should have been aggressive in pursuing a vet playmaker like Paul or Rubio, who would have made the young guys' life easier

Why should we believe anything these scouts say? I mean... they're just NBA professionals.

I've read it on this forum a million times that we should build around Coby, Zach is an All Star, Lauri is worthless, Williams is a great talent... etc.

[MrSparkle]

The Athletic's article from this morning with 3 scouts asked to evaluate the Bulls' key protagonists is (unsurprisingly) showing how bad we are rated around the league:
Donovan - we don't know who he is without superstars. He will have to coach a lot more. He's definitely a big step up over Boylen, though
Zach - Talented scorer, not a #1 option on a good team. One scout says "soft, not a leader". One scout still believes he has it
White - Skeptical about his ability to take the step as a playmaker. One scout says he's just a scorer off the bench
Otto - "Got big, is it muscle?". A fine player but his big contract puts too much spotlight on him. Too injured to be reliable
Lauri - the usual narrative about not being used properly. One scout is anti-Lauri - says he/she watched him live multiple times and haven't seen it with him. All agree he has to make shots, but he may be soft mentally
WCJ - "still don't know what he is". They see some of his skills and character, but injuries and Boylen schemes hurt his development
Williams - has skills and athleticism but nothing elite. One scout was shocked he went #4 - don't see it with him
All agree to no playoffs, maybe play-in

My takeaway here is a lot of in-season development is needed and everyone is skeptical there will be a lot of wins to keep the confidence high. Donovan's schemes will be key but he may be limited in how much he can achieve with the current make up of the roster...
Staying pat is not a great look for the FO. I'm not sure placing that much hope on Coby making everyone better is right. They should have been aggressive in pursuing a vet playmaker like Paul or Rubio, who would have made the young guys' life easier

Mostly fair. Hard to tell if 5y of total coaching ineptitude has jaded my view of good coaching, but Donovan does seem like a basketball god right now. I have zero problems with sets, rotations and his press conferences. Bit disingenuous to say he hasn’t proven himself without superstars. How many coaches keep a team relevant for 4 years after losing a top-2 player of the decade? Sorry but Westbrook was not a superstar, nor was old CP3, nor were pre-Pacers Oladipo and post-Pacers PG13 as they passed through. Every single player that went to Donovan improved under his coaching. Came in under-performing, came out playing great. The only question is if he’s good for development, why did Presti let him go? Was it to properly tank and give Billie a break, or did Presti have a basketball reason?

But I can’t disagree with any roster assessments. I also don’t see an elite superstar in Williams. I see elite flashes and potential, for sure. But he’s a project with a good floor, which is my personal favorite type of project (ie rookie Giannis). So far I like the draft, and PW was a good pick amongst good picks. The premise of "finding superstars" is preposterous.

Agreed with the premise that there are a bunch of unknowns and problems with this team. Makes sense since the last 2 years were a complete developmental and FO ****-show.

[Andi Obst]

A lot of teams are going to have a lot of regret about these extensions. Christian Wood’s contract now looking like a steal. Ditto Gallo and Bogs.

Agree on those 3 guys being on value deals, but honestly don't feel like there were too many bad deal given out this offseason. And the ones I consider to be bad (like Plumlee's contract with the Pistons) are mostly smaller deals, which makes them easier to move. Gobert at 41 mil hurts too, but I at least get why the Jazz did it.


I feel like people overreact to the crazy amounts of money these guys get when that's just how it is these days. Plus, especially with rookie extensions, people overestimate the impact of the extensions on the next offseason. Capholds are a thing. Toronto now only adds like 4 mil in salary for 21/22 by extending OG for example.