Image ImageImage Image

Zach Lavine-trade him now or part of the future? Voting is nearly 50/50. What would you do?

Moderators: HomoSapien, fleet, RedBulls23, Ice Man, AshyLarrysDiaper, Tommy Udo 6 , GimmeDat, dougthonus, Payt10, DASMACKDOWN, kulaz3000

What to do with Zach Lavine?

Keep him, he’s part of the core.
102
53%
Trade him, Williams is the only one who Bulls should keep.
89
47%
 
Total votes: 191

User avatar
Leslie Forman
General Manager
Posts: 9,299
And1: 4,928
Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Location: 1700 Center Dr, Ames, IA 50011

Re: Zach Lavine-trade him now or part of the future? Voting is nearly 50/50. What would you do? 

Post#381 » by Leslie Forman » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:11 pm

He is the same player as last year except he's shooting unsustainably well from 2 so far. Meanwhile the narrative has somehow gone from "trade him" to "max him" for scoring all these points for a team 24th in SRS right now.

I can only hope that the new regime is not quite as fickle.
jordanwilliams6
Junior
Posts: 298
And1: 260
Joined: Nov 01, 2018
 

Re: Zach Lavine-trade him now or part of the future? Voting is nearly 50/50. What would you do? 

Post#382 » by jordanwilliams6 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:17 pm

LateNight wrote:Personally, I like Zach and I’d like the keep him.

The Crowley rumor (link below) was that Zach offered a 3/76 extension this offseason and the Bulls turned it down. Not sure of thats true - but if so, it probably means they think he might have more value as a trade piece on a limited contract.

Otherwise, that seems like a great OK deal given his current production.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bulls/2021/1/11/22224978/bulls-trade-zach-lavine-or-ride-road-mediocrity

It's probably more to do with the fact that the FO is new and want to evaluate all of it's options during this season, rather than locking itself into a particular path. If they had committed to Zach, then they are shutting their options down.

With Zach's continued growth, my preferred path is to keep him long term and look to pair him with a second star through a trade or FA. Williams will be locked into his rookie deal for several years so he's also someone that is untouchable in my view. I'd be happy putting Coby, WCJ & Lauri all on the trade table with future picks to try and attain a second star. The one I'd be monitoring is Simmons. It's allows Zach to continue being a number one scorer but with Simmons covering a lot of Zach's weaknesses. Those two would be a dream pairing for me.

I don't know how we can possibly make it happen but a lineup of Coby/Zach/Simmons/Williams/Stretch defensive big is something I can only dream of.
User avatar
KissedByaRose1
Pro Prospect
Posts: 764
And1: 320
Joined: Feb 22, 2010

Re: Zach Lavine-trade him now or part of the future? Voting is nearly 50/50. What would you do? 

Post#383 » by KissedByaRose1 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:00 am

I now consider Zach to be part of the core. Lets build around him/Coby/Wendall and hope that he can be the #2 to PWills #1. Zach's our guy and i don't want him traded for anything short of a crazy high lottery pick at this point which i don't see happening.
DuckIII wrote: We can't out-Miami, Miami. But based on their roster, we can out-Chicago them.
WindyCityBorn
RealGM
Posts: 13,632
And1: 6,764
Joined: Jun 26, 2014
     

Re: Zach Lavine-trade him now or part of the future? Voting is nearly 50/50. What would you do? 

Post#384 » by WindyCityBorn » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:13 am

KissedByaRose1 wrote:I now consider Zach to be part of the core. Lets build around him/Coby/Wendall and hope that he can be the #2 to PWills #1. Zach's our guy and i don't want him traded for anything short of a crazy high lottery pick at this point which i don't see happening.


I would not him trade for a high lottery pick that would most likely would end up worse. I don’t think PWill will ever be a better scorer then Zach. Maybe better overall. Not putting Carter in the core. White I’m not sure. He isn’t a PG yet which hurts Zach.
User avatar
KissedByaRose1
Pro Prospect
Posts: 764
And1: 320
Joined: Feb 22, 2010

Re: Zach Lavine-trade him now or part of the future? Voting is nearly 50/50. What would you do? 

Post#385 » by KissedByaRose1 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:19 am

WindyCityBorn wrote:
KissedByaRose1 wrote:I now consider Zach to be part of the core. Lets build around him/Coby/Wendall and hope that he can be the #2 to PWills #1. Zach's our guy and i don't want him traded for anything short of a crazy high lottery pick at this point which i don't see happening.


I would not him trade for a high lottery pick that would most likely would end up worse. I don’t think PWill will ever be a better scorer then Zach. Maybe better overall. Not putting Carter in the core. White I’m not sure. He isn’t a PG yet which hurts Zach.


Agreed. Classic overreaction 10 games in but honestly short of #1 pick i think i'm hanging on to Zach. 25 year old who's got one more year of a cheap deal, constantly works to get better and most importantly actually wants to be here. Don't see any problems with paying him and then him coming into the start of the season out of shape/not prepared. The guy is just a worker. Would like to see him get to the line more/tighten up those handles but Lavine is awesome and we should appreciate him as fans.
DuckIII wrote: We can't out-Miami, Miami. But based on their roster, we can out-Chicago them.
Stratmaster
RealGM
Posts: 15,645
And1: 5,487
Joined: Oct 02, 2010
       

Re: Zach Lavine-trade him now or part of the future? Voting is nearly 50/50. What would you do? 

Post#386 » by Stratmaster » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:07 am

Leslie Forman wrote:He is the same player as last year except he's shooting unsustainably well from 2 so far. Meanwhile the narrative has somehow gone from "trade him" to "max him" for scoring all these points for a team 24th in SRS right now.

I can only hope that the new regime is not quite as fickle.
You were wrong about Zach last season, and you're still wrong now. Trying to find ways to diminish what he is doing looks silly.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
Leslie Forman
General Manager
Posts: 9,299
And1: 4,928
Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Location: 1700 Center Dr, Ames, IA 50011

Re: Zach Lavine-trade him now or part of the future? Voting is nearly 50/50. What would you do? 

Post#387 » by Leslie Forman » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:11 am

Stratmaster wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:He is the same player as last year except he's shooting unsustainably well from 2 so far. Meanwhile the narrative has somehow gone from "trade him" to "max him" for scoring all these points for a team 24th in SRS right now.

I can only hope that the new regime is not quite as fickle.
You were wrong about Zach last season, and you're still wrong now. Trying to find ways to diminish what he is doing looks silly.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Exactly what is he doing that someone like Kevin Martin didn't?

Would you give Jerami Grant a max contract too?
DorO
Junior
Posts: 360
And1: 150
Joined: Jan 22, 2018
 

Re: Zach Lavine-trade him now or part of the future? Voting is nearly 50/50. What would you do? 

Post#388 » by DorO » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:20 am

Leslie Forman wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:He is the same player as last year except he's shooting unsustainably well from 2 so far. Meanwhile the narrative has somehow gone from "trade him" to "max him" for scoring all these points for a team 24th in SRS right now.

I can only hope that the new regime is not quite as fickle.
You were wrong about Zach last season, and you're still wrong now. Trying to find ways to diminish what he is doing looks silly.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Exactly what is he doing that someone like Kevin Martin didn't?

Would you give Jerami Grant a max contract too?



Career 3p shooting:
Zach 37,5%
Grant 34,8%

No, why would you even ask such a stupid question.
WindyCityBorn
RealGM
Posts: 13,632
And1: 6,764
Joined: Jun 26, 2014
     

Re: Zach Lavine-trade him now or part of the future? Voting is nearly 50/50. What would you do? 

Post#389 » by WindyCityBorn » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:25 am

DorO wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:You were wrong about Zach last season, and you're still wrong now. Trying to find ways to diminish what he is doing looks silly.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Exactly what is he doing that someone like Kevin Martin didn't?

Would you give Jerami Grant a max contract too?



Career 3p shooting:
Zach 37,5%
Grant 34,8%

No, why would you even ask such a stupid question.


When someone’s argument is losing badly not much is left but this...
User avatar
Leslie Forman
General Manager
Posts: 9,299
And1: 4,928
Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Location: 1700 Center Dr, Ames, IA 50011

Re: Zach Lavine-trade him now or part of the future? Voting is nearly 50/50. What would you do? 

Post#390 » by Leslie Forman » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:38 am

DorO wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:You were wrong about Zach last season, and you're still wrong now. Trying to find ways to diminish what he is doing looks silly.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Exactly what is he doing that someone like Kevin Martin didn't?

Would you give Jerami Grant a max contract too?



Career 3p shooting:
Zach 37,5%
Grant 34,8%

No, why would you even ask such a stupid question.

Thank you for this rigorous statistical analysis. You've changed my mind.
DorO
Junior
Posts: 360
And1: 150
Joined: Jan 22, 2018
 

Re: Zach Lavine-trade him now or part of the future? Voting is nearly 50/50. What would you do? 

Post#391 » by DorO » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:44 am

Leslie Forman wrote:
DorO wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:Exactly what is he doing that someone like Kevin Martin didn't?

Would you give Jerami Grant a max contract too?



Career 3p shooting:
Zach 37,5%
Grant 34,8%

No, why would you even ask such a stupid question.

Thank you for this rigorous statistical analysis. You've changed my mind.


You’re welcome and I also saved you from bringing up all career stats.
Onibuh
Senior
Posts: 631
And1: 194
Joined: Jun 23, 2017
       

Re: Zach Lavine-trade him now or part of the future? Voting is nearly 50/50. What would you do? 

Post#392 » by Onibuh » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:59 am

gardenofsound wrote:
MisterRoy wrote:For the guys/gals who want to trade Zach and get a kings ransom for him, I am interested to know which teams you think are trade partners? Which assets will they be giving up?


Sent from somewhere you've never been.


I see New Orleans as actually being a really strong fit. They're loaded with Lakers and Bucks future picks. They may not be worth that much given how those teams both project with AD and Giannis having re-signed on longer term deals, but you could gamble on some of those later picks... That 2027 Milwaukee 1st could end up being huge.

They don't have a long term fit at SG yet, and honestly that's exactly the type of situation where LaVine would really thrive.
PG Ball (or Lewis, depending on how they approach RFA with Ball)
SG LaVine
SF Ingram
PF Williamson
C Adams

Memphis has some future picks and LaVine would be a great slot into that lineup.
PG Morant
SG LaVine
SF Brooks
PF JJJ
C Valanciunas

For both of the above teams, I think LaVine is a significant enough upgrade (and fits their age/prime optimization) to where they would have to strongly consider him as an option. He could be the difference between those teams (when healthy) not making the playoffs vs getting HCA in the first round, this year alone.

Lastly, you could argue (weakly) that OKC has too many future picks and will need to consolidate some of them. LaVine would theoretically fit well next to SGA. But they aren't really a contender by any stretch yet, so I don't see them as a viable partner.


If I am AKME, I'm talking to Zach's agent now and asking what Zach would really want?:
1. Stick it out in Chicago and get paid (max or near max).
2. Go to a team where he could elevate them into contention in the this and next year. Specifically bring up NOP and MEM as teams CHI would approach to gauge interest, but state that once the trade door gets opened, CHI will take best offer, regardless of the team.

There's always the third option, which can't be discussed between the parties: Zach gets traded away then comes back to Chicago in UFA.

To me, if there's transparency between the FO and Zach/agent, then that last option could be feasible if everyone sees the value in 2022.

_________________________________________________

I am a little bit torn on whether it makes sense to shop Zach at this point. It would really tear a hole in the sail of the team and could really be demoralizing if he were to be traded. Yeah, it's just business, but teams build bonds, and Zach is clearly the leader right now.

There could also be avenues to consolidate some of the Bulls' expiring contracts into a "bad" value contract. Like, looking at this coming offseason, there are several teams with heavy cap space that are going to be looking to spend, and a lot of marginal guys are going to get PAID... similar to 2016.

I'd rather the Bulls trade away OPJ and some of the other short term contracts for guys that are considered to be on a "bad" contracts plus picks. Guys like Wiggins, Draymond Green, Kevin Love, Blake Griffin, or even Tobias Harris.

For example, I could see mutual interest in a deal centered around Kevin Love + assets for Lauri+OPJ. Or OPJ+Sato for Tobias Harris and a young asset.

All of that said, if I'm LaVine, and I get equivalent contract offers from Chicago and, say, New Orleans (who projects to have a good amount of cap space in 2022)... I'm choosing New Orleans because, at least on its surface, it's the quickest way to a title and he'll be going into his prime. And Zach hasn't been as vocally loyal to Chicago as, say, Jimmy was (and, to be clear, I'm not going to revise history... I was on the Trade Jimmy bandwagon at the time).


you want to trade him to a contender and get 2-3 FRPs with the best chance of the pick not being #25 or later being 5 years in the future?
MisterRoy
Starter
Posts: 2,209
And1: 781
Joined: Jun 19, 2011
     

Re: Zach Lavine-trade him now or part of the future? Voting is nearly 50/50. What would you do? 

Post#393 » by MisterRoy » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:22 pm

Onibuh wrote:
gardenofsound wrote:
MisterRoy wrote:For the guys/gals who want to trade Zach and get a kings ransom for him, I am interested to know which teams you think are trade partners? Which assets will they be giving up?


Sent from somewhere you've never been.


I see New Orleans as actually being a really strong fit. They're loaded with Lakers and Bucks future picks. They may not be worth that much given how those teams both project with AD and Giannis having re-signed on longer term deals, but you could gamble on some of those later picks... That 2027 Milwaukee 1st could end up being huge.

They don't have a long term fit at SG yet, and honestly that's exactly the type of situation where LaVine would really thrive.
PG Ball (or Lewis, depending on how they approach RFA with Ball)
SG LaVine
SF Ingram
PF Williamson
C Adams

Memphis has some future picks and LaVine would be a great slot into that lineup.
PG Morant
SG LaVine
SF Brooks
PF JJJ
C Valanciunas

For both of the above teams, I think LaVine is a significant enough upgrade (and fits their age/prime optimization) to where they would have to strongly consider him as an option. He could be the difference between those teams (when healthy) not making the playoffs vs getting HCA in the first round, this year alone.

Lastly, you could argue (weakly) that OKC has too many future picks and will need to consolidate some of them. LaVine would theoretically fit well next to SGA. But they aren't really a contender by any stretch yet, so I don't see them as a viable partner.


If I am AKME, I'm talking to Zach's agent now and asking what Zach would really want?:
1. Stick it out in Chicago and get paid (max or near max).
2. Go to a team where he could elevate them into contention in the this and next year. Specifically bring up NOP and MEM as teams CHI would approach to gauge interest, but state that once the trade door gets opened, CHI will take best offer, regardless of the team.

There's always the third option, which can't be discussed between the parties: Zach gets traded away then comes back to Chicago in UFA.

To me, if there's transparency between the FO and Zach/agent, then that last option could be feasible if everyone sees the value in 2022.

_________________________________________________

I am a little bit torn on whether it makes sense to shop Zach at this point. It would really tear a hole in the sail of the team and could really be demoralizing if he were to be traded. Yeah, it's just business, but teams build bonds, and Zach is clearly the leader right now.

There could also be avenues to consolidate some of the Bulls' expiring contracts into a "bad" value contract. Like, looking at this coming offseason, there are several teams with heavy cap space that are going to be looking to spend, and a lot of marginal guys are going to get PAID... similar to 2016.

I'd rather the Bulls trade away OPJ and some of the other short term contracts for guys that are considered to be on a "bad" contracts plus picks. Guys like Wiggins, Draymond Green, Kevin Love, Blake Griffin, or even Tobias Harris.

For example, I could see mutual interest in a deal centered around Kevin Love + assets for Lauri+OPJ. Or OPJ+Sato for Tobias Harris and a young asset.

All of that said, if I'm LaVine, and I get equivalent contract offers from Chicago and, say, New Orleans (who projects to have a good amount of cap space in 2022)... I'm choosing New Orleans because, at least on its surface, it's the quickest way to a title and he'll be going into his prime. And Zach hasn't been as vocally loyal to Chicago as, say, Jimmy was (and, to be clear, I'm not going to revise history... I was on the Trade Jimmy bandwagon at the time).


you want to trade him to a contender and get 2-3 FRPs with the best chance of the pick not being #25 or later being 5 years in the future?

See, that's where my head is at. If we trade him to a contender, the picks we get are not going to replace Zach. The gamble is too great that they might suck in 3 years or 4 years for the pick to be higher in the lottery so we might get someone good. Might. Plus, we will suck for so long and not be fun to watch.

We know what we have in Zach. He makes our team better and has shown improvement so we know he is getting better. I don't think it wise to trade a sure thing for a gamble.


Sent from somewhere you've never been.
boozapalooza
Senior
Posts: 686
And1: 289
Joined: Jun 26, 2013

Re: Zach Lavine-trade him now or part of the future? Voting is nearly 50/50. What would you do? 

Post#394 » by boozapalooza » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:06 pm

With Harden going public with his trade demand, I’d
offer Zach and a couple future picks for Harden. Sell high on Zach’s hot streak and pick up a legit superstar who can help us bring in another star next offseason.
moorhosj
Sophomore
Posts: 213
And1: 216
Joined: Jun 19, 2018
 

Re: Zach Lavine-trade him now or part of the future? Voting is nearly 50/50. What would you do? 

Post#395 » by moorhosj » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:22 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:Exactly what is he doing that someone like Kevin Martin didn't?


Zach has higher per 36 rates in points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks than Kevin Martin ever had in his entire career.
Stratmaster
RealGM
Posts: 15,645
And1: 5,487
Joined: Oct 02, 2010
       

Re: Zach Lavine-trade him now or part of the future? Voting is nearly 50/50. What would you do? 

Post#396 » by Stratmaster » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:51 pm

WindyCityBorn wrote:
DorO wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:Exactly what is he doing that someone like Kevin Martin didn't?

Would you give Jerami Grant a max contract too?



Career 3p shooting:
Zach 37,5%
Grant 34,8%

No, why would you even ask such a stupid question.


When someone’s argument is losing badly not much is left but this...
Yep. The answer to Dora's question is "for attention". I won't give him any more. Was just surprised he is back on this again. You would think he could find a more defensible hot take.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app
troza
Junior
Posts: 337
And1: 93
Joined: Aug 19, 2011
   

Re: Zach Lavine-trade him now or part of the future? Voting is nearly 50/50. What would you do? 

Post#397 » by troza » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:57 pm

boozapalooza wrote:With Harden going public with his trade demand, I’d
offer Zach and a couple future picks for Harden. Sell high on Zach’s hot streak and pick up a legit superstar who can help us bring in another star next offseason.


I'm not sure the Bulls have a team that would please Harden and his wishes to be a contender. There is a need to add someone else to the mix. As far as I remember, he would have what he want (including keeping the style of play) on the Nets and 76ers.

But let's forget that. Let's imagine the Bulls decide to go for it. I would offer Zach and something to match salary and not picks for the start. Or even if they had interest on other player (except Williams), I would try to get some pics on that deal... seems unlikely, I know, but they are the ones that still want to be a good team and have a player that wants out. So, at the start we would be the ones demanding, I guess.

The problem is that Zach's value is still not that good. But I think that work is being done in case Harden or another superstar is available later in the year. Let's see if we finally start to be better positioned to get one of these players in the future because we have been out of it for a long long time.
Stratmaster
RealGM
Posts: 15,645
And1: 5,487
Joined: Oct 02, 2010
       

Re: Zach Lavine-trade him now or part of the future? Voting is nearly 50/50. What would you do? 

Post#398 » by Stratmaster » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:01 pm

boozapalooza wrote:With Harden going public with his trade demand, I’d
offer Zach and a couple future picks for Harden. Sell high on Zach’s hot streak and pick up a legit superstar who can help us bring in another star next offseason.
James Harden is 31. His next 2 years on his contract will likely be the worst deal in the NBA. He makes 44 mil next season and 47 mil in 22-23. And he is disgruntled and wants to be traded. He has had all kinds of talent around him through his prime and his team's have always underperformed.

Even at max Zach costs you 10 mil less and is 6 years younger. People are saying paying Zach 33 mil will handcuff the team from being able to pay another star. What will 47 mil do?

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app
Stratmaster
RealGM
Posts: 15,645
And1: 5,487
Joined: Oct 02, 2010
       

Re: Zach Lavine-trade him now or part of the future? Voting is nearly 50/50. What would you do? 

Post#399 » by Stratmaster » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:01 pm

moorhosj wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:Exactly what is he doing that someone like Kevin Martin didn't?


Zach has higher per 36 rates in points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks than Kevin Martin ever had in his entire career.
Yeah but other than that... lol

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app
ArtMorte
Rookie
Posts: 1,154
And1: 1,232
Joined: Jan 15, 2018
   

Re: Zach Lavine-trade him now or part of the future? Voting is nearly 50/50. What would you do? 

Post#400 » by ArtMorte » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:26 pm

Give Lavine the max. We're not going to attract a better player than him, if we're being honest here.

Return to Chicago Bulls