Lets talk Zach Lavine

[Hold That]

What we need to understand as a board and even as an organization is that 6’6 SG’s who have crazy athleticism and can hit the 3 will ALWAYS be in demand.

Zach was a talked about player in trade rumors last season, will be this season and likely next season if we are still trash and he’s on this team. On top of the fact that Zach is only 25, even if he was 30 he’d be in demand. With that said,there’s literally no rush to trade him until a deal comes along that we can’t pass up. As far as looking for a trade? That would be silly I’d prefer we wait sit back and catch a team in desperation trying to get over their “hump” of being a mediocre team and desperately wants to contend..

He’s the only player I’d advise against rushing into trading without a deal that knocks your socks off. He’s our best asset, the next best asset is our very own 2021 first round pick, and there’s a major drop off in “asset value” on this roster after that. So what I’m saying is if you trade Zach then you better get something damn good and you better get it right. We don’t have much to work with in the future outside of our own picks from our own season failures.

[TheSuzerain]

I think the very obvious tear down trade is Lavine and Thad or Sato to Golden State for Wiggins, the Minny pick, and 2 future GSW 1sts.

Pelicans also a sensible trade partner. Lavine for Redick and picks.

I prefer Golden State. There is going to be desperation there.

Wiggins is an unimaginably bad contract. I can't believe they took him. I'm not sure that even 3 first round picks would be enough to convince me to pay him that much money for that long.

Oh it is a horrendous contract. But we would be compensated very well for taking it back.

It's rare that a contract is so bad that you can get back legitimately great picks. This is an opportunity.

[TheSuzerain]

I think the very obvious tear down trade is Lavine and Thad or Sato to Golden State for Wiggins, the Minny pick, and 2 future GSW 1sts.

Pelicans also a sensible trade partner. Lavine for Redick and picks.

I prefer Golden State. There is going to be desperation there.

No way you take Wiggins. Take Oubre as an expiring. Lavine Curry Wiggins Draymond would be a playoff team.

You do take Wiggins of it gives us a warchest of rebuilding assets:
1. '21 MN 1st
2. '21 or '22 GSW 1st
3. '26 GSW
4. Random 2nd rounder

That is a realistic return IMO if we give them Lavine and take Wiggins albatross back. And those are great picks.

[Chi town]

I think the very obvious tear down trade is Lavine and Thad or Sato to Golden State for Wiggins, the Minny pick, and 2 future GSW 1sts.

Pelicans also a sensible trade partner. Lavine for Redick and picks.

I prefer Golden State. There is going to be desperation there.

No way you take Wiggins. Take Oubre as an expiring. Lavine Curry Wiggins Draymond would be a playoff team.

You do take Wiggins of it gives us a warchest of rebuilding assets:
1. '21 MN 1st
2. '21 or '22 GSW 1st
3. '26 GSW
4. Random 2nd rounder

That is a realistic return IMO if we give them Lavine and take Wiggins albatross back. And those are great picks.

Really? MIN pick will probably be 10-14. GSW pick 20ish. Our pick top 5.

[TheSuzerain]

No way you take Wiggins. Take Oubre as an expiring. Lavine Curry Wiggins Draymond would be a playoff team.

You do take Wiggins of it gives us a warchest of rebuilding assets:
1. '21 MN 1st
2. '21 or '22 GSW 1st
3. '26 GSW
4. Random 2nd rounder

That is a realistic return IMO if we give them Lavine and take Wiggins albatross back. And those are great picks.

Really? MIN pick will probably be 10-14. GSW pick 20ish. Our pick top 5.

Even with Lavine/Sato and without Wiggins, I think there's a good chance the GSW pick is 15ish.

MN pick very likely top 10.

[Chi town]

You do take Wiggins of it gives us a warchest of rebuilding assets:
1. '21 MN 1st
2. '21 or '22 GSW 1st
3. '26 GSW
4. Random 2nd rounder

That is a realistic return IMO if we give them Lavine and take Wiggins albatross back. And those are great picks.

MIN will
Make another trade to get into the playoffs. They don’t have a PF right now.

Really? MIN pick will probably be 10-14. GSW pick 20ish. Our pick top 5.

Even with Lavine/Sato and without Wiggins, I think there's a good chance the GSW pick is 15ish.

MN pick very likely top 10.

[dougthonus]

I think the very obvious tear down trade is Lavine and Thad or Sato to Golden State for Wiggins, the Minny pick, and 2 future GSW 1sts.

Pelicans also a sensible trade partner. Lavine for Redick and picks.

I prefer Golden State. There is going to be desperation there.

Would do that trade too.

[Am2626]

Curry is being exposed in Warriors. They would get him help to try makes playoffs. Lavine,Otto Porter,W.Carter for A.Wiggins, Minesotta frp 21 top 3 protected, K.Bazemore expiring. Minesotta would stil be in 5-10 range in 2021 draft. Wiggins gives you some scoring and defense on wing, we could flip Bazemore for second round pick, and have chance to pick twice in top 10. In White's draft i wanted Seyku in Carter's Shai, so this time if Cade or Suggs/Green are already taken we two off pick Kumminga/Scottie Barnes/Jalen Johnson.

This actually doesn’t sound bad. I can see Minnesota’s pick getting conveyed next year. Don’t really see Golden State making this move unless they get off to a bad start.

[ChicagoSportsFan21]

I think most realistic options should be Pelicans or Warriors to trade Lavine. A trade centered around Ball for the Pelicans would be what I would prefer. Another option is centered around the 2021 MIN pick with the Warriors. Thoughts?

[TheSuzerain]

Warriors blown out again.

[dice]

Not with the Bulls.

huh? he hasn't gotten better as a scorer since he left the bulls. per 100 poss.:'

29.4p on 57.7% ts (3.5% over league average) - last 3 seasons w/ bulls
28.2p on 57.8% ts (1.8% over) - since

zach lavine as a bull (excluding first season):

34.3p on 57.1% (0.9% over)

Ok. So in what way do those stats show Butler is as good a scorer as Lavine? That's 6 freaking points per 100 possessions difference.

because, uh...points isn't the be all and end all of being an effective scorer?

butler was 3.5 points higher than league average efficiency in his scoring years on the bulls. lavine has been a mere 0.9% higher. 3.5 is significantly better than 0.9. and 0.9 isn't particularly helpful to an offense. particularly if you're not on a bad team like the bulls. so while lavine is just fine as a #1 scorer when you're trying to drag a bad offense up to mediocrity, it's not an exciting prospect if you're trying to be a legitimate contender...particularly when scoring is his only desirable quality

you said that butler wasn't in even in the same league as lavine as a scorer. not only has he been in the same league...for 6 years now, but he's very comparable. depends on what your team needs

But my point is, before you start talking about trading a scorer like Lavine for a draft pick, be sure you understand what you are trading. Scorers like him are not a dime a dozen. You likely won't have another scorer like him for a long time.

true. but i don't judge players solely on their best quality. and it's very unwise to do so when you're talking about improving a bad team. it's not like the bulls are contenders who would lose a necessary scoring component if they deal lavine. the bulls need everything

I am not saying don't trade him. Or that he is untouchable. But you better get a haul back for him. If the biggest piece of that trade is a top 10 draft pick that is a crazy mistake.

re-signing zach lavine to a huge deal is the biggest mistake of all. and if the bulls aren't getting blown away by offers for lavine, it's because most other teams are wise to that

[Leslie Forman]

I don't think people here are gonna like what LaVine's value around the league really is. Would not be surprised if it is not a whole lot higher than what Mirotic's was.

[dice]

What we need to understand as a board and even as an organization is that 6’6 SG’s who have crazy athleticism and can hit the 3 will ALWAYS be in demand.

what we need to understand as a board is that the best asset on a terrible team is easy to over-value. because we want something to latch onto that provides hope. but the reality is that any team being led by zach lavine is pretty hopeless

Zach was a talked about player in trade rumors last season, will be this season and likely next season if we are still trash and he’s on this team. On top of the fact that Zach is only 25, even if he was 30 he’d be in demand. With that said,there’s literally no rush to trade him until a deal comes along that we can’t pass up.

most of the perceived value is in his current contract. every day he's not traded his trade value diminishes (it's BEEN diminishing since the 2019 offseason). unless he ups his game quickly

So what I’m saying is if you trade Zach then you better get something damn good and you better get it right

even if you get it wrong (you trade for prospects that don't pan out), you're not much worse off than you are now

[dice]

I don't think people here are gonna like what LaVine's value around the league really is. Would not be surprised if it is not a whole lot higher than what Mirotic's was.

the obvious comparison is jimmy butler. butler carried a bulls team to averageness and was dealt in the summer that he turned 28 w/ 2 years left on his contract. lavine has carried (?) a team to poorness, currently has 2 years left like butler did and is 2.5 years younger than butler was

so the question is whether the 2.5 years younger comes close to making up for jimmy obviously being the much better player. when it comes to the trade market, anyway. i can't see the bulls getting a comparable return to what they got for jimmy, but that deal is easy to use as a measuring stick

garpax obviously felt compelled to trade jimmy while he had value. questionable, but understandable given his age and what kind of money he would be due. AK SHOULD feel similarly about lavine even though age is not a significant factor

[Protein Shot]

What we need to understand as a board and even as an organization is that 6’6 SG’s who have crazy athleticism and can hit the 3 will ALWAYS be in demand.

Zach was a talked about player in trade rumors last season, will be this season and likely next season if we are still trash and he’s on this team. On top of the fact that Zach is only 25, even if he was 30 he’d be in demand. With that said,there’s literally no rush to trade him until a deal comes along that we can’t pass up. As far as looking for a trade? That would be silly I’d prefer we wait sit back and catch a team in desperation trying to get over their “hump” of being a mediocre team and desperately wants to contend..

He’s the only player I’d advise against rushing into trading without a deal that knocks your socks off. He’s our best asset, the next best asset is our very own 2021 first round pick, and there’s a major drop off in “asset value” on this roster after that. So what I’m saying is if you trade Zach then you better get something damn good and you better get it right. We don’t have much to work with in the future outside of our own picks from our own season failures.

None of that last part matters. If hes not trying to be here long term already then his value is declining with each passing year. If he doesnt want to stick around through the rebuild or build then hes going to leave for nothing and then you lost the asset you want to hang onto for nothing.

To get you have to give. If you think a team is giving you a bag for Valentine and others I got a bridge to sell you as well. Yeah you want to get the most value for him but losing him for nothing is far worse value than not getting full value for him. Come next July on the last year of his deal his value is half of what it is right now. Not cause he sucks because the acquiring team has no control beyond this year.

[erasmusmrr]

Also, Lavine soon making $35M-$40M per...

[dice]

Warriors blown out again.

paying $68 mil for oubre this season (luxury tax included) looking incredibly frivolous. oh to be that rich

[MrSparkle]

I don't think people here are gonna like what LaVine's value around the league really is. Would not be surprised if it is not a whole lot higher than what Mirotic's was.

Well, I don't know about that. Asik was $20m guaranteed with a waived physical, bizarre medical situation. And that FRP was mid-1st projected. That was a mediocre deal at the time, and actually quite awful in retrospect. NOP wasn't looking good, but at the same time they were betting against Anthony Davis and Jrue.

LaVine should atleast command a guaranteed top-10 pick. I'm pretty sure it could've gotten done this draft (especially with a bad contract ie Wiggins, Rozier, etc.), but the prospects weren't looking worth the risk.

I hope I'm not eating my words defending AK here, but I also feel like this upcoming NBA season was too much of an unknown to make any '21 FRP trades. He might've wanted to wait closer to the deadline to see what the top-10 tank-jobs are looking like.

Zach for Hornets' FRP and Rozier might be a swell deal in March, if they're below 15 wins. Ditto with the Knicks (Randle), Kings (Joseph & filler), etc. Definitely intrigued with the high-ceiling prospects this year. Fill out the roster with roleplaying vets in free agency if you can add two lotto talents this year. That would be a hell of a turn-around compared to maxing LaVine and tweaking the parts.

[Hold That]

What we need to understand as a board and even as an organization is that 6’6 SG’s who have crazy athleticism and can hit the 3 will ALWAYS be in demand.

Zach was a talked about player in trade rumors last season, will be this season and likely next season if we are still trash and he’s on this team. On top of the fact that Zach is only 25, even if he was 30 he’d be in demand. With that said,there’s literally no rush to trade him until a deal comes along that we can’t pass up. As far as looking for a trade? That would be silly I’d prefer we wait sit back and catch a team in desperation trying to get over their “hump” of being a mediocre team and desperately wants to contend..

He’s the only player I’d advise against rushing into trading without a deal that knocks your socks off. He’s our best asset, the next best asset is our very own 2021 first round pick, and there’s a major drop off in “asset value” on this roster after that. So what I’m saying is if you trade Zach then you better get something damn good and you better get it right. We don’t have much to work with in the future outside of our own picks from our own season failures.

None of that last part matters. If hes not trying to be here long term already then his value is declining with each passing year. If he doesnt want to stick around through the rebuild or build then hes going to leave for nothing and then you lost the asset you want to hang onto for nothing.

Show me where LaVine says he wants out? Show me even a rumor that LaVine secretly wants to be traded? Show me an article or anything where LaVine has stated he’s fed up with losing. You typed all that and made it sound as if Lavine has been expressing his displeasure with the Bulls. Lavine wants to be the top dog, that is what he has expressed. Whether I believe he can be is irrelevant. But what we do know is there aren’t many teams where Lavine can be the top dog and if there are I highly doubt they have interest in making Lavine their #1 option. I think it’s safe to say Lavine will be with us comfortably for the next two seasons without us having to worry about him demanding a trade. So no I don’t believe we have to “panic” trade him. I rather us take our time and sift through deals, even if it takes a year rather than operate as if we are on some invisible clock.

To get you have to give. If you think a team is giving you a bag for Valentine and others I got a bridge to sell you as well. Yeah you want to get the most value for him but losing him for nothing is far worse value than not getting full value for him. Come next July on the last year of his deal his value is half of what it is right now. Not cause he sucks because the acquiring team has no control beyond this year.

I agree in order to get you have to give. But you don’t start off with with your best asset if you don’t have too. People on this board want to put Lavine on the chopping block first when Coby,Lauri,WCJ and whoever else you want to put in not named Zach and Pwill should be priority first. Accumulate some late first rounders for the players I mentioned. If the best thing this regime can do is trade our best asset first and foremost then what makes them any different or more resourceful or creative than the next.

[Leslie Forman]

LaVine should atleast command a guaranteed top-10 pick.

Like I said,

I don't think people here are gonna like what LaVine's value around the league really is.

career net negative who does nothing but rack up points on awful teams =/= great trade value