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OT: Storming of the Capitol/Coup Attempt

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Re: OT: Storming of the Capitol/Coup Attempt 

Post#1161 » by League Circles » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:51 pm

Almost Retired wrote:
Ben Wilson25 wrote:
Almost Retired wrote:I'll believe in global warming when Al Gore divides his 28,000 sq ft mansion into 20 apartments and startes flying commercial.


Oh gotcha, you’re basing your opinion on Al Gore’s house and not the conclusion of every credible scientist who studies this for a living, decades of climate data, satellite imagery and current conditions on the ground. Cool.


Whether the climate is changing is a totally different question than whether man made activity is the cause of it. You can line up 1,000 scientists whose research is part of some government "study". What do you think their conclusions are going to be. I won't even get into the use of falsified temperature data and other "anomalies". Think a little deeper. Don't be a sheep. If man was the cause of climate change how did the climate of the earth change back and forth for millions of years before we evolved? The climate may be changing. It may be necessary for us to adapt to whatever change occurs as we have done for countless millenia. But we are not the cause of it and there is nothing we can do to halt it. Solar activity drives the climate. The only things on earth that have definitely achieved a short term changing of the climate have been enormous volcanic eruptions and the asteroid that landed off the Yucatan and which led to the death of the dinosaurs. Listen to what the politicians say and just assume the opposite and you'll be better off.

ALL activity, of any kind, affects climate change. There is no "IF". Learn about the 2nd and 3rd laws of thermodynamics.
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Re: OT: Storming of the Capitol/Coup Attempt 

Post#1162 » by Bulls69 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:04 pm

2018C3 wrote:
MGB8 wrote:
2018C3 wrote:
I have a mixed extended family, and have a relative through marriage who in the past spent time in jail. He and his wife both now work with inner city youth, and act as a positive influence and help young adults make the correct choices.


A think there are a few hundred (not necessarily inner-city raised) people held up in DC right now that could probably have used some of that guidance....


Definitely, I do not endorse the DC behavior at all. If it was up to me, I would have supported a much harsher force in preventing a single "rioter/ terrorist" from entering the White House. That was a scary situation, and I would have supported any force necessary to prevent the entry. Once the line was crossed, the people involved became a great danger.

Allowing this to happen, is disgusting.

Once you crossed that line a harsh response should have been given the fact you are trying to overturned a election is what a third world dictator does. The Capitol Hill is the crown jewelry of the United States I'm all for peaceful protesting no matter what group you belongs to but what happened on January 6th should have never happened.
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Re: OT: Storming of the Capitol/Coup Attempt 

Post#1163 » by League Circles » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:05 pm

DuckIII wrote:I don’t know if this matters to anyone at this point in the discussion, but POTUS does not have to be guilty of a crime to be impeached. There is a lot of discussion in the media, both liberal and conservative, about whether Trump’s words “incited” the insurrection. That is a legal question. I’ve spent some time this last week researching “incitement” jurisprudence and in my view, Trump did not as a legal matter “incite” the insurrection.

Everyone on CNN says he did incite it, most everyone on Fox says he did not. I don’t know what MSNBC or Newsmax says because I can’t control my gag reflex long enough to watch either network, but I think I can safely guess their respective positions.

This is a red herring though. The grounds for impeachment are far more nebulous and subjective than legal standards within the court system. Of the statements I have read, Liz Cheney has presented the basis for impeachment in the way most consistent with the historical and congressional treatment of the analysis which I will get to in a minute.

Congressionally established grounds for impeachment include “a broad variety of conduct by officers that is both serious and incompatible with the duties of the office.”

The legal standard for incitement is not wholly irrelevant because if you establish it, it strengthens the case. But in my studied view it does not apply. Nor is it necessary.

The basis for impeachment is not solely the insurrection and Trump’s role in it. Rather it includes deliberately and knowingly lying to the American public about election fraud. This is different than him filing lawsuits, which is peaceful, constitutional and the proper way to address these issues. I always agreed with McConnell’s statements that POTUS is completely within his rights to pursue his grievances through legal means.

But that is different than the accompanying rhetoric about “massive widespread fraud.” His lawsuits did not even allege fraud, yet this was his persistent public message to provoke outrage and inflame passions. This is calculated and incompatible with the purposes of the office because it seeks to undermine public trust in democracy.

Next piece of evidence is his multiple phone calls asking Georgia officials to select specific investigators willing to “find the fraud” and worse to “find” the exact amount of votes he needed to take the state, accompanied by threats to those officials to do this for him. That is inconsistent with the purposes of the office and not only undermines public trust in democracy, but in fact is a patent effort to directly and illegally overturn a presidential election behind the scenes. That is an attempted coup, albeit a fraudulent rather than violent one. But that didn’t work.

So the next phase was to pressure Mike Pence to do something that is illegal and unconstitutional, which was to refuse to accept and tally the certified election results. And on the day it happened, attempted to use duress against Pence by rallying his crowd around the need for Mike Pence to do this illegal thing. Que “kill Mike Pence” chants. Those were the next two steps taken to effect a non-violent coup to subvert the will of the people. Also an impeachable offense under the standard established by Congress nearly 50 years ago.

Then we have the insurrection itself. While there is little doubt Trump’s statements for months and on that day inflamed passions, it is highly unlikely that it constitutes incitement. Despite this, the insurrection itself is the focal point of impeachment and understandably so, but I hope they do not conflate legal incitement with impeachment.

Because the last basis for impeachment - conduct incompatible the duties of the office - is Trump’s conduct during and after the insurrection. Liz Cheney’s statement includes this and it should be a meaningful focal point of the process:

“The President could have immediately and forcefully intervened to stop the violence. He did not. There has never been a greater betrayal by a President of the United States of his office and his oath to the Constitution.“

This, to me, is the most easily proven and most obvious basis for impeachment. Even ignoring the multiple reports from inside the WH that Trump watched the insurrection with “delight” and that he was “confused” as to why his staff did not have the same reaction, we know he sat back for hours and took no action to stop it. And he continued to tweet threats (“this is what happens when you try to steal an election”). Which links back to all of his prior conduct in convincing his followers that no other choices remained to “save Democracy.” Ultimately, Biden and Trump’s legal team had to implore him to make a public statement and when he did it was with a wink and a nod.

Ignore whether he incited the insurrection. Collectively and individually the described acts are impeachable offenses. They constitute a months long, multi-pronged effort to undermine public faith in democracy without evidence, and ultimately to overturn the will of the people through unconstitutional means.

These actions are grossly incompatible with the weighty duties and obligations a sitting POTUS owes to this nation, and he should be impeached.

A+++ post. I've been beating around the bush trying to clumsily say similar things in recent days here and elsewhere. I fully agree and appreciate the legal legwork and insight. Shared with friends.
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Re: OT: Storming of the Capitol/Coup Attempt 

Post#1164 » by Red8911 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:46 pm

https://www.foxnews.com/media/twitter-silent-as-resurfaced-tweet-from-nancy-pelosi-declared-that-2016-election-was-hijacked.amp



“This tweet by @SpeakerPelosi from 5/7/17 is an illustration of how months after the 2016 election, leading Dems were still sowing doubt about the integrity of the election just as they did after FL 2000. This rhetoric paved the way for the other side to do the same," political commentator Yossi Gestetner wrote.”
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Re: OT: Storming of the Capitol/Coup Attempt 

Post#1165 » by Bulls69 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:49 pm

PlayerUp wrote:
rtblues wrote:What was the end-game in the storming of the Capital? Murder the opposition and declare a new government with DT as leader for life? Did the people taking part in this seriously believe this was viable "plan" that would succeed? While they did manage to murder a policeman, thankfully they didn't get any further.

In the end it looks more like they did it for the selfies, which ironically are now helping to identify and arrest the participants. Did they think that there simply wouldn't be any consequences for such actions and criminal offenses?

Now the bigger questions of complicity, planning and funding of the whole thing have emerged. Stay tuned...


I'm sure these people regret what they did. Were just there for another Trump event. They'll point fingers but ultimately they were the ones that opted to break through police barriers and charge congress. Clearly uneducated that not only are they on federal property but there is also something called covid-19 that could kill you if you get it.


This was not a spontaneous rally that got carry away these terrorists knew what they were doing they should be treated very harsh lengthy prison time and death penalty for the death of the cop if convicted. They brought pipe bombs and build a gallow to hang Mike Pence.
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Re: OT: Storming of the Capitol/Coup Attempt 

Post#1166 » by Ben Wilson25 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:50 pm

Almost Retired wrote:
Whether the climate is changing is a totally different question than whether man made activity is the cause of it. You can line up 1,000 scientists whose research is part of some government "study". What do you think their conclusions are going to be. I won't even get into the use of falsified temperature data and other "anomalies". Think a little deeper. Don't be a sheep.


If you were gravely ill would you go to the doctor or would you try to heal yourself because you’re thinking for yourself and doctors could be conflicted by profit motive? Don’t confuse independent thought with expertise.

Just for one minute imagine someone who goes to college for climatology. For 4 years they take classes on meteorology, physics, oceanography, math and how all these subjects relate to climate. They write papers, attend lectures, do field internships etc. when they graduate maybe they work their way up in the field eventually spending months at a time in places like Antarctica and Greenland gathering data and running models and simulations. Maybe the publish a paper which is vigorously peer reviewed. If you know anything about the scientific community next to making your own discovery, disproving someone else’s theory is what they love; it’s cutthroat.

There are thousands of people like this and it is their life’s work. Overwhelmingly they agree the planet is heating rapidly and human activity is to blame. But I’m supposed to take your opinion on it because you’re not a sheep?
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Re: OT: Storming of the Capitol/Coup Attempt 

Post#1167 » by Bullflip » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:51 pm

Red8911 wrote:https://www.foxnews.com/media/twitter-silent-as-resurfaced-tweet-from-nancy-pelosi-declared-that-2016-election-was-hijacked.amp

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“This tweet by @SpeakerPelosi from 5/7/17 is an illustration of how months after the 2016 election, leading Dems were still sowing doubt about the integrity of the election just as they did after FL 2000. This rhetoric paved the way for the other side to do the same," political commentator Yossi Gestetner wrote.”


The difference is in both cases, the Democratic candidate conceded so whatever Pelosi said didn't matter. Meanwhile you have the POTUS not only conceding, but claiming it was a hoax and spreading disinformation. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and wanted to see what evidence is brought up in the court of law, and there was none. Guiliani himself in a court of law said that they are not claiming fraud. They say fraud outside the court, because they know there will not be consequences. But inside the court of law, they know they cannot claim fraud, because they don't have evidence.
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Re: OT: Storming of the Capitol/Coup Attempt 

Post#1168 » by Almost Retired » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:59 pm

League Circles wrote:
Almost Retired wrote:
Ben Wilson25 wrote:
Oh gotcha, you’re basing your opinion on Al Gore’s house and not the conclusion of every credible scientist who studies this for a living, decades of climate data, satellite imagery and current conditions on the ground. Cool.


Whether the climate is changing is a totally different question than whether man made activity is the cause of it. You can line up 1,000 scientists whose research is part of some government "study". What do you think their conclusions are going to be. I won't even get into the use of falsified temperature data and other "anomalies". Think a little deeper. Don't be a sheep. If man was the cause of climate change how did the climate of the earth change back and forth for millions of years before we evolved? The climate may be changing. It may be necessary for us to adapt to whatever change occurs as we have done for countless millenia. But we are not the cause of it and there is nothing we can do to halt it. Solar activity drives the climate. The only things on earth that have definitely achieved a short term changing of the climate have been enormous volcanic eruptions and the asteroid that landed off the Yucatan and which led to the death of the dinosaurs. Listen to what the politicians say and just assume the opposite and you'll be better off.

ALL activity, of any kind, affects climate change. There is no "IF". Learn about the 2nd and 3rd laws of thermodynamics.


Oh, I better put less beans in my chilli.
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Re: OT: Storming of the Capitol/Coup Attempt 

Post#1169 » by League Circles » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:04 pm

Almost Retired wrote:
League Circles wrote:
Almost Retired wrote:
Whether the climate is changing is a totally different question than whether man made activity is the cause of it. You can line up 1,000 scientists whose research is part of some government "study". What do you think their conclusions are going to be. I won't even get into the use of falsified temperature data and other "anomalies". Think a little deeper. Don't be a sheep. If man was the cause of climate change how did the climate of the earth change back and forth for millions of years before we evolved? The climate may be changing. It may be necessary for us to adapt to whatever change occurs as we have done for countless millenia. But we are not the cause of it and there is nothing we can do to halt it. Solar activity drives the climate. The only things on earth that have definitely achieved a short term changing of the climate have been enormous volcanic eruptions and the asteroid that landed off the Yucatan and which led to the death of the dinosaurs. Listen to what the politicians say and just assume the opposite and you'll be better off.

ALL activity, of any kind, affects climate change. There is no "IF". Learn about the 2nd and 3rd laws of thermodynamics.


Oh, I better put less beans in my chilli.

Measuring component impact on climate change is virtually impossible, but yeah, cooking anything increases entropy which, all things being equal, increases temperature. The only things that could mitigate that have not been addressed in the mainstream to my knowledge (larger system size due to ozone depletion - plausible, and great emission of heat by radiation than absorption to and from other bodies in space - not as plausible IMO).

The point is, don't even suggest that it's possible that we're not contributing to climate change. It's like arguing that there is no gravitational law. It undermines a reasonable position that many of the (futile and costly) "solutions" proposed by some on the left are unwise.
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Re: OT: Storming of the Capitol/Coup Attempt 

Post#1170 » by Red8911 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:17 pm

rtblues wrote:What was the end-game in the storming of the Capital? Murder the opposition and declare a new government with DT as leader for life? Did the people taking part in this seriously believe this was viable "plan" that would succeed? While they did manage to murder a policeman, thankfully they didn't get any further.

In the end it looks more like they did it for the selfies, which ironically are now helping to identify and arrest the participants. Did they think that there simply wouldn't be any consequences for such actions and criminal offenses?

Now the bigger questions of complicity, planning and funding of the whole thing have emerged. Stay tuned...

What was the end game for all the BLM riots all over the country? They destroyed businesses, looted , caused chaos for what ? Did they gain anything ? There was no plan there, they were just angry.

The people that stormed the capital also did not have a plan. They went there to protest and they too were angry that Trump lost then of course things got out of hand. Violence was bound to happen that day. They didn’t go to over throw the government like the media suggests, that’s ridiculous. This happens all over the world especially over politics.

Also have to add that if the police and security have done their jobs at the capitol none of this would of happened. We wouldn’t even be talking about this right now. They basically gave them the freedom to go in so they did just that. There’s videos of the security guys taking selfie’s with them, opening doors for them to go in and even getting out of the way from the lines outside the building. This is 100 percent their fault, they should of been ready. If they were not one protester would even get close to entering the building.
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Re: OT: Storming of the Capitol/Coup Attempt 

Post#1171 » by Dresden » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:20 pm

Almost Retired wrote:
Dresden wrote:
2018C3 wrote:
You can hate him all you want, but to use these terms are foolish. He in fact did the exact opposite, and put Jews in the white house. Why use these terms?


Look up Steven Miller's bio- he's had more than a passing contact with far right groups...he may not be a Nazi, but he seems to be very comfortable with far right ideology.


Question: How many Democrats in Washington DC are "very comfortable" with far left ideology? Let's start with "The Squad" and work our way down from there.


I wouldn't call democratic socialism "far left". That would be something like Maoism, or communism. Last I checked, no one in congress was espousing those ideas.
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Re: OT: Storming of the Capitol/Coup Attempt 

Post#1172 » by Dresden » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:24 pm

moorhosj wrote:
PlayerUp wrote:As history has proven, presidents who leave office tend to do well afterwards. Trump will be just fine with small hiccups like this on the way. Besides, I doubt Trump plans to do anymore ventures in liberal states. He'll focus on Florida and Texas, the #2 and #4 highest GDP earning states.


Our history has never included a former president who was a developer, so I’m not sure it’s Apple to apples comparison. Even if he decides to avoid “liberal state” he’s going to find out that the cities (even ones in Florida and Texas) with all the wealth don’t like him too much either.


Borrowing MJ's idea about how "republicans buy shoes, too", in this case, democrats play golf, stay at hotels, and purchase many of the other goods that Trump or Ivanka peddle. So losing half your market of course is going to hurt him financially. He may make some of that up by starting new ventures aimed at his base. But I suppose that with the amount of fund raising that's been able to do since losing the election, he won't be hurting that badly. Still, I could see the Trump empire being reduced in size quite a bit over the coming decade.

Because it's all about the brand, isn't it? And his brand has taken a beating.
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Re: OT: Storming of the Capitol/Coup Attempt 

Post#1173 » by Dresden » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:29 pm

Almost Retired wrote:Whether the climate is changing is a totally different question than whether man made activity is the cause of it. You can line up 1,000 scientists whose research is part of some government "study". What do you think their conclusions are going to be. I won't even get into the use of falsified temperature data and other "anomalies". Think a little deeper. Don't be a sheep. If man was the cause of climate change how did the climate of the earth change back and forth for millions of years before we evolved? The climate may be changing. It may be necessary for us to adapt to whatever change occurs as we have done for countless millenia. But we are not the cause of it and there is nothing we can do to halt it. Solar activity drives the climate. The only things on earth that have definitely achieved a short term changing of the climate have been enormous volcanic eruptions and the asteroid that landed off the Yucatan and which led to the death of the dinosaurs. Listen to what the politicians say and just assume the opposite and you'll be better off.


No one is saying climate hasn't changed before. but to say we are not the cause of this particular change in climate is to not look at the evidence. I don't need a scientist to tell me that. All I need to see are the graphs that show the increase in CO2 in the atmosphere, and how that correlates with the start of the industrial revolution, and the great increase in fossil fuel usage. Unless of course, you don't believe greenhouse gases can cause the climate to change, which you seem to doubt. That's a huge hole in your argument right there though.
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Re: OT: Storming of the Capitol/Coup Attempt 

Post#1174 » by Ice Man » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:36 pm

Red8911 wrote:What was the end game for all the BLM riots all over the country?


The endgame for the BLM movement was to enact new laws and procedures. In contrast, the endgame for the Capitol "event," to use a euphemism, was to overturn an election.

That is not to excuse the many who used the BLM movement as cover to loot or to have some fun provoking the police. They don't deserve any public sympathy or support, and I will not give it to them.
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Re: OT: Storming of the Capitol/Coup Attempt 

Post#1175 » by Dresden » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:36 pm

DuckIII wrote:I don’t know if this matters to anyone at this point in the discussion, but POTUS does not have to be guilty of a crime to be impeached. There is a lot of discussion in the media, both liberal and conservative, about whether Trump’s words “incited” the insurrection. That is a legal question. I’ve spent some time this last week researching “incitement” jurisprudence and in my view, Trump did not as a legal matter “incite” the insurrection.

Everyone on CNN says he did incite it, most everyone on Fox says he did not. I don’t know what MSNBC or Newsmax says because I can’t control my gag reflex long enough to watch either network, but I think I can safely guess their respective positions.

This is a red herring though. The grounds for impeachment are far more nebulous and subjective than legal standards within the court system. Of the statements I have read, Liz Cheney has presented the basis for impeachment in the way most consistent with the historical and congressional treatment of the analysis which I will get to in a minute.

Congressionally established grounds for impeachment include “a broad variety of conduct by officers that is both serious and incompatible with the duties of the office.”

The legal standard for incitement is not wholly irrelevant because if you establish it, it strengthens the case. But in my studied view it does not apply. Nor is it necessary.

The basis for impeachment is not solely the insurrection and Trump’s role in it. Rather it includes deliberately and knowingly lying to the American public about election fraud. This is different than him filing lawsuits, which is peaceful, constitutional and the proper way to address these issues. I always agreed with McConnell’s statements that POTUS is completely within his rights to pursue his grievances through legal means.

But that is different than the accompanying rhetoric about “massive widespread fraud.” His lawsuits did not even allege fraud, yet this was his persistent public message to provoke outrage and inflame passions. This is calculated and incompatible with the purposes of the office because it seeks to undermine public trust in democracy.

Next piece of evidence is his multiple phone calls asking Georgia officials to select specific investigators willing to “find the fraud” and worse to “find” the exact amount of votes he needed to take the state, accompanied by threats to those officials to do this for him. That is inconsistent with the purposes of the office and not only undermines public trust in democracy, but in fact is a patent effort to directly and illegally overturn a presidential election behind the scenes. That is an attempted coup, albeit a fraudulent rather than violent one. But that didn’t work.

So the next phase was to pressure Mike Pence to do something that is illegal and unconstitutional, which was to refuse to accept and tally the certified election results. And on the day it happened, attempted to use duress against Pence by rallying his crowd around the need for Mike Pence to do this illegal thing. Que “kill Mike Pence” chants. Those were the next two steps taken to effect a non-violent coup to subvert the will of the people. Also an impeachable offense under the standard established by Congress nearly 50 years ago.

Then we have the insurrection itself. While there is little doubt Trump’s statements for months and on that day inflamed passions, it is highly unlikely that it constitutes incitement. Despite this, the insurrection itself is the focal point of impeachment and understandably so, but I hope they do not conflate legal incitement with impeachment.

Because the last basis for impeachment - conduct incompatible the duties of the office - is Trump’s conduct during and after the insurrection. Liz Cheney’s statement includes this and it should be a meaningful focal point of the process:

“The President could have immediately and forcefully intervened to stop the violence. He did not. There has never been a greater betrayal by a President of the United States of his office and his oath to the Constitution.“

This, to me, is the most easily proven and most obvious basis for impeachment. Even ignoring the multiple reports from inside the WH that Trump watched the insurrection with “delight” and that he was “confused” as to why his staff did not have the same reaction, we know he sat back for hours and took no action to stop it. And he continued to tweet threats (“this is what happens when you try to steal an election”). Which links back to all of his prior conduct in convincing his followers that no other choices remained to “save Democracy.” Ultimately, Biden and Trump’s legal team had to implore him to make a public statement and when he did it was with a wink and a nod.

Ignore whether he incited the insurrection. Collectively and individually the described acts are impeachable offenses. They constitute a months long, multi-pronged effort to undermine public faith in democracy without evidence, and ultimately to overturn the will of the people through unconstitutional means.

These actions are grossly incompatible with the weighty duties and obligations a sitting POTUS owes to this nation, and he should be impeached.


Thank you Duck, for that analysis. I think the points you made on what he can be impeached for are well laid out and accurate. Any one of those was shameful and not in line with his duties as president, and taken together, they add up to a gross dereliction of duty and conduct unbecoming of his office. You can look at how Pence has acted during this whole thing as a model for how Trump should have behaved, although he also should have done more to quell the gibberish about election fraud. But he generally put the rule of law first, which Trump did not.

The phone calls he made to GA officials were very damning I thought. As were the calls he made to other state officials, demanding they somehow change the vote. That could easily be construed as extortion or attempt at voting fraud itself I would think.
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Re: OT: Storming of the Capitol/Coup Attempt 

Post#1176 » by Dresden » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:40 pm

Red8911 wrote:https://www.foxnews.com/media/twitter-silent-as-resurfaced-tweet-from-nancy-pelosi-declared-that-2016-election-was-hijacked.amp



“This tweet by @SpeakerPelosi from 5/7/17 is an illustration of how months after the 2016 election, leading Dems were still sowing doubt about the integrity of the election just as they did after FL 2000. This rhetoric paved the way for the other side to do the same," political commentator Yossi Gestetner wrote.”


You have to admit that when one side wins the popular vote, but loses the election, there is bound to be some grumbling about the process being unfair. The last time a non incumbent GOP won the popular vote in an election was in 1988, George HW Bush.
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Re: OT: Storming of the Capitol/Coup Attempt 

Post#1177 » by Dresden » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:43 pm

Almost Retired wrote:
League Circles wrote:
Almost Retired wrote:
Whether the climate is changing is a totally different question than whether man made activity is the cause of it. You can line up 1,000 scientists whose research is part of some government "study". What do you think their conclusions are going to be. I won't even get into the use of falsified temperature data and other "anomalies". Think a little deeper. Don't be a sheep. If man was the cause of climate change how did the climate of the earth change back and forth for millions of years before we evolved? The climate may be changing. It may be necessary for us to adapt to whatever change occurs as we have done for countless millenia. But we are not the cause of it and there is nothing we can do to halt it. Solar activity drives the climate. The only things on earth that have definitely achieved a short term changing of the climate have been enormous volcanic eruptions and the asteroid that landed off the Yucatan and which led to the death of the dinosaurs. Listen to what the politicians say and just assume the opposite and you'll be better off.

ALL activity, of any kind, affects climate change. There is no "IF". Learn about the 2nd and 3rd laws of thermodynamics.


Oh, I better put less beans in my chilli.


And eat less meat! Farting and burping livestock is actually a significant source of greenhouse gases.
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Re: OT: Storming of the Capitol/Coup Attempt 

Post#1178 » by Dresden » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:48 pm

Red8911 wrote:
rtblues wrote:What was the end-game in the storming of the Capital? Murder the opposition and declare a new government with DT as leader for life? Did the people taking part in this seriously believe this was viable "plan" that would succeed? While they did manage to murder a policeman, thankfully they didn't get any further.

In the end it looks more like they did it for the selfies, which ironically are now helping to identify and arrest the participants. Did they think that there simply wouldn't be any consequences for such actions and criminal offenses?

Now the bigger questions of complicity, planning and funding of the whole thing have emerged. Stay tuned...

What was the end game for all the BLM riots all over the country? They destroyed businesses, looted , caused chaos for what ? Did they gain anything ? There was no plan there, they were just angry.

The people that stormed the capital also did not have a plan. They went there to protest and they too were angry that Trump lost then of course things got out of hand. Violence was bound to happen that day. They didn’t go to over throw the government like the media suggests, that’s ridiculous. This happens all over the world especially over politics.

Also have to add that if the police and security have done their jobs at the capitol none of this would of happened. We wouldn’t even be talking about this right now. They basically gave them the freedom to go in so they did just that. There’s videos of the security guys taking selfie’s with them, opening doors for them to go in and even getting out of the way from the lines outside the building. This is 100 percent their fault, they should of been ready. If they were not one protester would even get close to entering the building.


I'll keep going to keep going back to the point on this that the BLM riots were about real things- black people being basically murdered by cops. that's something to legitimately be upset about, and demonstrate about. The capitol riots, OTH, were only based on the unfounded and unproven assumption that the election was stolen. And these lies were spread by the president himself, as well as many member of congress. And these same people were encouraging the mobs, even saying things like "let's go kick some ass", or "let's have trial by combat". That's why it's such a serious matter- those at the highest positions of authority in our country are guilty or perpetuating a massive lie that may have far reaching impacts on our democracy.
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Re: OT: Storming of the Capitol/Coup Attempt 

Post#1179 » by Jimako10 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:01 pm

Read on Twitter


Uh oh. Somebody isn't happy.
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Re: OT: Storming of the Capitol/Coup Attempt 

Post#1180 » by Fantastik_Goat » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:11 pm

Dresden wrote:
Red8911 wrote:
rtblues wrote:What was the end-game in the storming of the Capital? Murder the opposition and declare a new government with DT as leader for life? Did the people taking part in this seriously believe this was viable "plan" that would succeed? While they did manage to murder a policeman, thankfully they didn't get any further.

In the end it looks more like they did it for the selfies, which ironically are now helping to identify and arrest the participants. Did they think that there simply wouldn't be any consequences for such actions and criminal offenses?

Now the bigger questions of complicity, planning and funding of the whole thing have emerged. Stay tuned...

What was the end game for all the BLM riots all over the country? They destroyed businesses, looted , caused chaos for what ? Did they gain anything ? There was no plan there, they were just angry.

The people that stormed the capital also did not have a plan. They went there to protest and they too were angry that Trump lost then of course things got out of hand. Violence was bound to happen that day. They didn’t go to over throw the government like the media suggests, that’s ridiculous. This happens all over the world especially over politics.

Also have to add that if the police and security have done their jobs at the capitol none of this would of happened. We wouldn’t even be talking about this right now. They basically gave them the freedom to go in so they did just that. There’s videos of the security guys taking selfie’s with them, opening doors for them to go in and even getting out of the way from the lines outside the building. This is 100 percent their fault, they should of been ready. If they were not one protester would even get close to entering the building.


I'll keep going to keep going back to the point on this that the BLM riots were about real things- black people being basically murdered by cops. that's something to legitimately be upset about, and demonstrate about. The capitol riots, OTH, were only based on the unfounded and unproven assumption that the election was stolen. And these lies were spread by the president himself, as well as many member of congress. And these same people were encouraging the mobs, even saying things like "let's go kick some ass", or "let's have trial by combat". That's why it's such a serious matter- those at the highest positions of authority in our country are guilty or perpetuating a massive lie that may have far reaching impacts on our democracy.


I think Trump has brought up some very valid points about voter fraud in this country. I think a commission should be set up to investigate each of his accusations of voter fraud.

First we must investigate the rig the outcomes of the 2004 2005 Emmys

Second you must investigate how Ted Cruz stole the Iowa caucuses

Third the 2016 presidential election was rigged to have Trump lose the popular vote yet win the electoral college. (Oop! Already had a commission run by trump loyalists that found nothing)

Fourth the 2020 election how is it possible that Trump got 46.1% of the vote in 2016 and then got almost the exact number in 20 20 46.9%.

It’s like if the story of The Boy Who Cried Wolf was a parable about how if you keep crying wolf eventually a whole bunch of people will believe you.

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