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GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2

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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#41 » by Butler4thewin » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:06 am

RSP83 wrote:He's calm like a vet, and probably already one of the league's better defender. How can Bulls fans not get excited that he's still 19, already has an NBA body, big hands, and seem to have no problem playing in the NBA as a starter. Who knows how good he's going to become, I mean big jumps in development like what happened to Giannis, Kawhi, Jimmy is also mental, BBall IQ, and hardwork, and this is difficult to predict. Worse comes to worst this is already Patrick's floor. It's good, he certainly has all the raw qualities of high potential 4th pick, but he's still a long way from justifying his draft position and reaching his ceiling.

i think physicaly he will be stronger faster and better in every aspect in 3 seasons and wont be in his true prime untill 28ish so we are lucky if he continues to improve
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#42 » by PlayerUp » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:59 am

Butler4thewin wrote:
RSP83 wrote:He's calm like a vet, and probably already one of the league's better defender. How can Bulls fans not get excited that he's still 19, already has an NBA body, big hands, and seem to have no problem playing in the NBA as a starter. Who knows how good he's going to become, I mean big jumps in development like what happened to Giannis, Kawhi, Jimmy is also mental, BBall IQ, and hardwork, and this is difficult to predict. Worse comes to worst this is already Patrick's floor. It's good, he certainly has all the raw qualities of high potential 4th pick, but he's still a long way from justifying his draft position and reaching his ceiling.

i think physicaly he will be stronger faster and better in every aspect in 3 seasons and wont be in his true prime untill 28ish so we are lucky if he continues to improve


These type of players mature later because there isn't anything specifically unique about their game that makes them excel now and as they develop they become complete all around skilled threats. Patrick Williams without a doubt has that ceiling.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#43 » by The Force. » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:33 am

Pat's very solid. I don't necessarily see a future all-star/volume scorer yet, but I think he can be a rich man's OG Anunoby. Basically one of the better 3D wings playing the coveted 3/4 position.

Now if he ever improves his handle and footwork, lookout.

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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#44 » by Butler4thewin » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:14 am

PlayerUp wrote:
Butler4thewin wrote:
RSP83 wrote:He's calm like a vet, and probably already one of the league's better defender. How can Bulls fans not get excited that he's still 19, already has an NBA body, big hands, and seem to have no problem playing in the NBA as a starter. Who knows how good he's going to become, I mean big jumps in development like what happened to Giannis, Kawhi, Jimmy is also mental, BBall IQ, and hardwork, and this is difficult to predict. Worse comes to worst this is already Patrick's floor. It's good, he certainly has all the raw qualities of high potential 4th pick, but he's still a long way from justifying his draft position and reaching his ceiling.

i think physicaly he will be stronger faster and better in every aspect in 3 seasons and wont be in his true prime untill 28ish so we are lucky if he continues to improve


These type of players mature later because there isn't anything specifically unique about their game that makes them excel now and as they develop they become complete all around skilled threats. Patrick Williams without a doubt has that ceiling.

the one thing i notice about him that really makes me think he can be a offensive force later on is his consistent shooting from 3pt range he seems to have that allready locked into his bag and the rest will be the areas that we all know can be massively improved upon by players while shooting is the one thats just not very often done successfully
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#45 » by kulaz3000 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:24 am

The Force. wrote:Pat's very solid. I don't necessarily see a future all-star/volume scorer yet, but I think he can be a rich man's OG Anunoby. Basically one of the better 3D wings playing the coveted 3/4 position.

Now if he ever improves his handle and footwork, lookout.

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He is already a solid 3D player, but yes, for him to take a step, he needs to improve his handles and footwork. And eventually add a post game to his offense, then we are talking about a very dangerous player.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#46 » by CjayC » Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:52 am

I know he's had some real tough covers early on, but at the moment I'm more impressed with his offense and Team D, than his Man D. Kind of a surprise for me personally. Not to say his man D hasn't been passable, but the shooting and Team D are usually some of the harder things to nail down.

I was kind of expecting a typical raw offensive player that can't buy a bucket(Don't get me wrong he still has a ways to go), but a solid athletic defender, but it's been a bit of the opposite. To already be scoring efficiently in his role as a 5th option/ release valve kind of player is pretty immense. He seems very smart, I've got no doubt he'll improve in the areas needed to advance his game.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#47 » by Michael Jackson » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:56 pm

I just hope AK gets a little more leash after this with his picks instead of a bunch (not all) calling for his head after drafting Pat. I thought it was an OK pick personally but honestly didn’t like anyone in this draft, and currently (which can change) the class looks pretty good. Still Williams looks like the right pick at 4.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#48 » by ChiefILL53 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:30 pm

VolumePoster wrote:I was ticked when they drafted Williams. I didn't see special athleticism or production at Florida. I said before the draft, repeatedly, that Lamelo Ball is a basketball genius; that's who I wanted us to draft, almost regardless of cost.

That said, I'm coming around on Project Pat. The fourth quarter defense on Lebron was superb. Deflections, steals, forced shots. Lebron was hitting stupidly difficult shots in the first half but a generational player will do that...to literally anyone. That "and-1" is an offensive foul if Pat falls down, because it was absolutely on offensive foul. I like his touch, strength, ability to get vertical off one or two legs. He's laterally much quicker than the quadriceps-crowd would have you believe. He may not have any individually special athletic traits, but the combination of traits is rare. Most of all, the kid is serious and focused. He's going to be a valuable NBA player for a long time.

That said, I have concerns. He does not show aggressiveness in any facet of the game...yet. His shot is glacially-slow...for now. He does not attack close outs by getting to the rim and drawing fouls...yet. He also lacks an iso game, which you need if you are to achieve stardom.

So...cautiously optimistic? That's where I am right now. Regardless he seems like a really good kid, and I'm pulling for him.
And+1 for the project pat nickname. Which is what I will refer to him as going forward

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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#49 » by Clocian » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:56 pm

Michael Jackson wrote:I just hope AK gets a little more leash after this with his picks instead of a bunch (not all) calling for his head after drafting Pat. I thought it was an OK pick personally but honestly didn’t like anyone in this draft, and currently (which can change) the class looks pretty good. Still Williams looks like the right pick at 4.


Was just thinking about this this morning. I remember dudes were losing their absolute mind that we picked pat at 4. Not me, I've been a pat supporter since day 1, you can check the history :D
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#50 » by ATRAIN53 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:21 pm

Interesting to read the nbadraft.net stuff now a month now into the Pat Will era-

I like his calm demeanor and the fact he seems like he's just trying to fit in now.

I can see why they wrote this:

There are question marks about his want to as a scorer, and his ceiling as a scorer at the next level … Can he be a 15+ point scorer, does he have the desire to be a bucket getter? … Does not seem to have the instinct to be a high level scorer.

… Could really flourish if he developed an alpha dog mentality and leadership …


I think that will comes with some success, but he does seem to be a silent leader type.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#51 » by FriedRise » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:59 pm

P36, he's so far averaging 14 points, 5 rebounds, and 1 assist, steal, and block on 47/46/86 shooting.

He can definitely assert himself more offensively because his ballhandling is good enough to not turn the ball over and his passing is sweet enough to make a play for others if the defense collapses. He's also so big and strong that if he attacks the basket more, he should be able to easily absorb contact and go to the line more. Jimmy eventually figured that out and became our 20ppg #1 option. I think Pat can be in the same trajectory. He's also been so efficient shooting the 3s and the midrange and he has a solid repertoire of moves going to the basket (that one-handed push shot / floater stands out in particular). He's turned down a couple of open corner catch and shoot 3s that I thought he should've taken, but I think it's a result of thinking too much about making the right play.

Defensively, he's been tasked guarding Giannis, LeBron, and Kawhi in the first three weeks of his career, and I thought he stood his own. He's gotten a lot of compliments from some of these guys, and I don't think they hand those out just willingly for anybody. So that must've been cool.

In the starting lineup, he's more or less the fourth option after Zach, Coby, and Lauri, and maybe even fifth after Wendell. It would be nice to tweak the rotations a bit to get him some playing time with the veterans when Zach or Coby is sitting, so he can be featured more as a second option.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#52 » by Leslie Forman » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:28 pm

FriedRise wrote:He can definitely assert himself more offensively because his ballhandling is good enough to not turn the ball over and his passing is sweet enough to make a play for others if the defense collapses. He's also so big and strong that if he attacks the basket more, he should be able to easily absorb contact and go to the line more. Jimmy eventually figured that out and became our 20ppg #1 option. I think Pat can be in the same trajectory. He's also been so efficient shooting the 3s and the midrange and he has a solid repertoire of moves going to the basket (that one-handed push shot / floater stands out in particular). He's turned down a couple of open corner catch and shoot 3s that I thought he should've taken, but I think it's a result of thinking too much about making the right play.

It's unlikely he will ever be quite the penetration spammer that Jimmy became. Jimmy is…really weird as a player in 2021. A really underrated lateral/burst athlete, a poor outside shooter, and absolutely hell bent on proving people he could be a primary ballhandler. We may not see many (any?) more Jimmys in the NBA ever again.

Pat, however, will likely be a way better shooter than Jimmy ever was. He doesn't have a Ball brother form, he doesn't hesitate, and the numbers obviously are there - 84%FT in college, 86%FT so far in the pros (low volume, I know).

I think his shot chart is going to resemble someone like PG more, and that would be a lofty but semi-feasible goal for him offensively. But he's also already made some passes that I'm not sure anybody else on this team except maybe Satoransky would even try. So who knows. For all we know he could be a point forward in five years.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#53 » by Clocian » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:05 am

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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#54 » by DroseReturnChi » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:13 am

FriedRise wrote:In the starting lineup, he's more or less the fourth option after Zach, Coby, and Lauri, and maybe even fifth after Wendell. It would be nice to tweak the rotations a bit to get him some playing time with the veterans when Zach or Coby is sitting, so he can be featured more as a second option.


This is why you need to trade Zach/Coby or even both for Williams. These guys are taking shots from everyone but my concern is they are impeding rookie development when hes barely taking over 10 shots even in great shooting games.
Just from 10 games alone with near 50/40/90 shootting, he should be featured minimum as a number 2 in a perennial lottery team.

Kawhi/Butler would have been scrubs if they werent given 40minute leash and green light.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#55 » by gardenofsound » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:41 am

DroseReturnChi wrote:
FriedRise wrote:In the starting lineup, he's more or less the fourth option after Zach, Coby, and Lauri, and maybe even fifth after Wendell. It would be nice to tweak the rotations a bit to get him some playing time with the veterans when Zach or Coby is sitting, so he can be featured more as a second option.


This is why you need to trade Zach/Coby or even both for Williams. These guys are taking shots from everyone but my concern is they are impeding rookie development when hes barely taking over 10 shots even in great shooting games.
Just from 10 games alone with near 50/40/90 shootting, he should be featured minimum as a number 2 in a perennial lottery team.

Kawhi/Butler would have been scrubs if they werent given 40minute leash and green light.


Kawhi and Jimmy didn't get big minutes their rookie years. Or even their sophomore years... and both came in as upperclassmen. So that argument has no base.

Pat is Pat. He's not Jimmy or Kawhi. I think he's in a perfect position right now to develop, and rushing him into a featured roll could easily backfire.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#56 » by Repeat 3-peat » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:02 am

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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#57 » by Senor Chang » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:22 am

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anyone else staring hard at their hands?
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#58 » by kulaz3000 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:16 am

Senor Chang wrote:
Repeat 3-peat wrote:
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anyone else staring hard at their hands?


Yep, that's the first thing I did!

Pat's hands are definitely bigger, but Leonards hands are on another level. Besides that, their bodies are quite similar. Long arms (again, Leonard has a much bigger wingspan), but they have thick strong lower bodies as well.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#59 » by rtblues » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:34 am

Eleven games, no training camp, shortened preseason,19 yrs old, the youngest American player drafted, didn't start in college, learning a new system, team, and league...

Patience folks, patience. You can see it all coming.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#60 » by dougthonus » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:15 pm

rtblues wrote:Eleven games, no training camp, shortened preseason,19 yrs old, the youngest American player drafted, didn't start in college, learning a new system, team, and league...

Patience folks, patience. You can see it all coming.


The only question now to me is "good" or "great" with Pat. Worst case, looks like you have a versatile, strong defender, that can knock down open 3s, finish, and hit mid ranges shots. Adding shot creation / passing would make him a superstar potential type guy, granted, those are the toughest two things you can ask someone to add, so I don't view it as overly likely, but he's probably a minimum 15M per year guy with only experience and no new skills.
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