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GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2

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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#641 » by sco » Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:33 pm

I can't tell if PWill is slow laterally or it is just rookie lack of anticipation. I agree that it probably makes sense to have PWill play PF next season and try to nab a 2-way SF.

I don't get the frustration with his offense. Before the trade he was playing alongside one allstar in Zach and 3 marginal starting talents. With Vuc, you now have 2 guys who should be getting near 20 shots a game in the starting line-up. I just think there is more pressure to feed Zach and Vuc. Despite us wanting to see him shoot more, his role on offense SHOULD be our 5th option...that means shoot when you are wide open, on fast breaks and off broken plays. He shouldn't be averaging 10 shots a game anymore...more like 6.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#642 » by ChettheJet » Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:52 pm

I guess I see it differently. I do think part of it is Billy's fault for telling him his role is to spread the floor hence he gets to a spot behind the line as the ball crosses the half court. But when he is in that position and it's where he should be as a play develops I'm not seeing Zach ever look for him, maybe Vuc doesn't realize he can shoot the ball, Satoransky doesn't keep track of him which you would think would be part of being the PG. The games where they have moved the ball and cut to the basket PW has been involved, contributing and outstanding. For whatever reason they just do not run plays for him so if he doesn't have a part in a play other than spread the floor, what's he supposed to do? I think it's up to Billy to run plays to get PW involved in the offense

On defense I see him as a SF, I don't think very many teams take their future PF and have him guarding an all start PG like Russell which he was doing more often than not last night. On ball PW seems like a solid defender, he stays square up on his man and doesn't fall off of him. He's a good help defender off the ball coming from the weak side. He doesn't switch well on screens all the time, but here's a news flash, nobody on the Bulls is very good at coming over the top of screens to stay with the ball. I think art of that is stuck with the drop back method that got Carter in trouble so often.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#643 » by coldfish » Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:18 pm

I would again suggest that people watch Pat off ball. He had an entry pass to Vuc last night and the play is to pass and cut. He had the lane and he just gently walked through it. If he had cut hard, it was an easy layup. This wasn't deferring or offensive set up or confusion. There was a play for him, he knew it and he just lightly jogged through it.

People are making waaaaaaay too many excuses for him. A lot of this is basic stuff that he should be doing and it has nothing to do with coaching or teammates. My only complaint about coaching is that BD has given him too long of a leash, IMHO.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#644 » by JimmyButler21 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:41 am

Last 2 games:
53 minutes, 2 points, 4 rebounds, 1 assist, 4 steals, 1 block, 4 turnovers
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#645 » by DASMACKDOWN » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:55 am

Id rather not play Pat at all if Billy Donovan is hands off and Pat is just reserved to stand in a corner.

Put him in a backup role, but him in the G league for games all I care. But right now they are training him to be a player that is our worst nightmare. You know who im talking about
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#646 » by Clocian » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:57 am

Disappointing couple games. Playing too passive now. He's gonna need to put in that work this summer, and coaches need to tell him too attack. As Stacey said, I'd rather him shoot and miss then not shoot at all, .especially since when he does shoot, they're not bad shots
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#647 » by GoBlue72391 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:57 am

coldfish wrote:I would again suggest that people watch Pat off ball. He had an entry pass to Vuc last night and the play is to pass and cut. He had the lane and he just gently walked through it. If he had cut hard, it was an easy layup. This wasn't deferring or offensive set up or confusion. There was a play for him, he knew it and he just lightly jogged through it.

People are making waaaaaaay too many excuses for him. A lot of this is basic stuff that he should be doing and it has nothing to do with coaching or teammates. My only complaint about coaching is that BD has given him too long of a leash, IMHO.
Even Stacey called him out on it, yelling "run, run!" while the entire team started running after scooping up a lose ball except for PWill who literally walked. Not jogged, walked. Not an isolated incident.

That combined with his overall passivity and his whole "I don't care" shtick he says in press conferences is alarming yet the fan base eats it up. It's not cute, it's not cool, these are **** red flags.

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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#648 » by Repeat 3-peat » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:00 am

PW has been completely pathetic.
Take the red pill.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#649 » by Jcool0 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:18 am

Not liking this answer

Read on Twitter
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#650 » by DASMACKDOWN » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:21 am

The problem is two fold. He really hasnt played with another gear. Its 100% based on how the offense has flowed that game.

Even when you watch his best games of the season, its still the same gear. He has played exactly the same way as the first game of the year.

But right now there has been zero urgency to get out of that gear. Not by him. Not by the coaching staff. So where he thinks he is being a good teammate, he just looks like a bum out there.

Rookies normally go through a slump or rookie wall where they cant buy a basket or have a prolonged struggle. People cant even say Pat has even hit it because he is so low volume and usage to even tell.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#651 » by GoBlue72391 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:25 am

Jcool0 wrote:Not liking this answer

Read on Twitter
The age excuse is such a cop out. Newsflash, like 80% of rookies are 19 year old one and dones, PWill is not special in that regard, and plenty of 19 year old rookies have shown way more than him.

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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#652 » by Sougaiki » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:46 pm

He has the mindset of a 3rd stringer and somehow he seems to be happy to jog to the corner. Compare Theis to Williams and ignore the age. People with the right will and motor want to get the offensive board and find ways to score or help the team even without plays made up for them. Age and playing time is just a cheap excuse.

He needs a mentor to push him the right way as in a coach to tell him its not enough what u are showing. Can someone call Thibs please. Donovan seems the wrong coach to push him out of his comfort zone. With the motor of Theis he would be something. He has the talent and body but not the will to be something special otherwise he wouldnt take those jogs, half hearted tries to get boards etc.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#653 » by DuckIII » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:59 pm

GoBlue72391 wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:Not liking this answer

Read on Twitter
The age excuse is such a cop out. Newsflash, like 80% of rookies are 19 year old one and dones, PWill is not special in that regard, and plenty of 19 year old rookies have shown way more than him.

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It’s not a cop out. It’s reality and plenty of one and done rookies develop more slowly.

However, what is a cop out is BD’s red herring about people expecting him to take over games. No Bulls fan that I have read here expects Williams to “take over games.” But it would be nice to know, without looking to a box score for proof, that he even played in the last three games.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#654 » by Ice Man » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:59 pm

DASMACKDOWN wrote:You know who im talking about


Bogans? Lauri?
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#655 » by MrSparkle » Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:34 pm

Glancing at the season log, he’s roughly played 15 good games, 10 mediocre, 20 bad (more serviceable games than net negatives IMO). This recent stretch is probably his worst string of games. I hope it’s rookie brain fog.

Hate making excuses, but the travel schedule has been compressed since the break. It is without a doubt the busiest stretch of competitive games he’s ever played in his life.

It doesn’t help a ‘system player’ rookie when the veteran hierarchy is struggling all over, and the system looks like a mess on either end.

But yeah — the fringe 0/0/0 nights need to be addressed personally. “Hey youngin- you’re much better than that.”
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#656 » by JohnnyTapwater » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:18 pm

Play your role - cool - but don't play like a role player if that makes sense.

Wake up kid.
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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#657 » by Stratmaster » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:27 pm

GoBlue72391 wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:Not liking this answer

Read on Twitter
The age excuse is such a cop out. Newsflash, like 80% of rookies are 19 year old one and dones, PWill is not special in that regard, and plenty of 19 year old rookies have shown way more than him.

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AND... isn't it easier to play 4 games in 5 days at 19 than at 26... or... 34?

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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#658 » by Stratmaster » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:31 pm

MrSparkle wrote:Glancing at the season log, he’s roughly played 15 good games, 10 mediocre, 20 bad (more serviceable games than net negatives IMO). This recent stretch is probably his worst string of games. I hope it’s rookie brain fog.

Hate making excuses, but the travel schedule has been compressed since the break. It is without a doubt the busiest stretch of competitive games he’s ever played in his life.

It doesn’t help a ‘system player’ rookie when the veteran hierarchy is struggling all over, and the system looks like a mess on either end.

But yeah — the fringe 0/0/0 nights need to be addressed personally. “Hey youngin- you’re much better than that.”
So I expect if that is the excuse for the 19 year old you allow the same leeway for 26 and 34 year olds who are playing more minutes and shouldering more responsibility?

Basically, no one on any team should be expected to play well right now?

Edit: PWill should be playing 20 mpg off the bench. I am not down on the rook. I am down in what the coach is doing to him.

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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#659 » by sco » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:45 pm

Stratmaster wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:Glancing at the season log, he’s roughly played 15 good games, 10 mediocre, 20 bad (more serviceable games than net negatives IMO). This recent stretch is probably his worst string of games. I hope it’s rookie brain fog.

Hate making excuses, but the travel schedule has been compressed since the break. It is without a doubt the busiest stretch of competitive games he’s ever played in his life.

It doesn’t help a ‘system player’ rookie when the veteran hierarchy is struggling all over, and the system looks like a mess on either end.

But yeah — the fringe 0/0/0 nights need to be addressed personally. “Hey youngin- you’re much better than that.”
So I expect if that is the excuse for the 19 year old you allow the same leeway for 26 and 34 year olds who are playing more minutes and shouldering more responsibility?

Basically, no one on any team should be expected to play well right now?

Edit: PWill should be playing 20 mpg off the bench. I am not down on the rook. I am down in what the coach is doing to him.

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Re: GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2 

Post#660 » by MrSparkle » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:45 pm

Stratmaster wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:Glancing at the season log, he’s roughly played 15 good games, 10 mediocre, 20 bad (more serviceable games than net negatives IMO). This recent stretch is probably his worst string of games. I hope it’s rookie brain fog.

Hate making excuses, but the travel schedule has been compressed since the break. It is without a doubt the busiest stretch of competitive games he’s ever played in his life.

It doesn’t help a ‘system player’ rookie when the veteran hierarchy is struggling all over, and the system looks like a mess on either end.

But yeah — the fringe 0/0/0 nights need to be addressed personally. “Hey youngin- you’re much better than that.”
So I expect if that is the excuse for the 19 year old you allow the same leeway for 26 and 34 year olds who are playing more minutes and shouldering more responsibility?

Basically, no one on any team should be expected to play well right now?

Edit: PWill should be playing 20 mpg off the bench. I am not down on the rook. I am down in what the coach is doing to him.

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Well, it comes back to a challenging set of options. You can demote Pat, but after the dust settles, I'm not sure we're in a better place.

IMO you put Troy Brown in the line-up and it might be a 1-2 game honey-moon before settling into reality. He is a negative TS Added player who's actually been shooting better than ever as a Bull, which makes his small sample 3P shooting more an outlier. I'm not sure he is very disciplined on and off the ball, he's simply fighting hard for minutes in a new opportunity. He's also the youngest addition to the team coming off a major regression in WAS, so I can see more reasons to involve him slowly than throwing him ahead of our entire farm of lotto picks. The spacing is still going to be bad, and we're still gonna have a very vulnerable defense, so long you start Vuc with another big.

Starting Arci is a last-ditch effort tossed around, but we are talking about a 9 PER player who looks alright in limited minutes, top of the 2nd and bottom of the 3rd quarter / deep reserve type. Do we go small at SF with Sato?

Starting Lauri, is an idea that simply isn't going to work.. and there are politics at this point. I think mutual side know his time is up in Chicago, not fully invested in incorporating him. This guy can try hard but gets murdered on the boards and switches, and playing him at SF just seems like a video game solution (though it did look fine that one game).

IMO you can move Pat to the bench like we moved Coby, but I'm not necessarily sure it helps the team nor him, in the long-run.

I think the best way to help Pat is giving him more minutes at PF in a small line-up. Our best line-ups for the year involved combinations of Temple/Sato/Zach/Thad and Pat. The very worst ones have typically been big line-ups, with Coby at PG and Pat at SF; ball handling and defense take a huge hit. After the trade added 2 starting caliber centers and moved our starting caliber C to PF, we have a "too-many-starting-centers" problem. It is the worst problem to have, in the NBA. As such, unfortunately the 20/21 roster is doomed. As sad as it is, Temple might be our last chance/Obi-Won; he'd be the one guy I'd clearly start over Pat. I doubt he comes back to his early season form.

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