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PG: Bulls Clipped

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Re: PG: Bulls Clipped 

Post#201 » by FranchisePlayer » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:56 pm

PaKii94 wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:
WindyCityBorn wrote:If we get 20 ppg 40 percent on 3s Lauri back we are gonna win a lot of games.

Lauri's lack of defense and motor not being around to hurt the team is a big reason why the team is playing better but ain't nobody wanna hear that…


you are providing some great material to bring up later :)


Insane stuff. The team supposedly plays better defense without Markkanen, yet the Clippers scored 130 points. :crazy:
MeloRoseNoah wrote:Comparing Markkanen the Euro soft bum to Eddy Curry Shaq Jr is an understatement and a drastic overvaluation of this Euro bust.
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Re: PG: Bulls Clipped 

Post#202 » by Stratmaster » Mon Jan 11, 2021 3:59 pm

RSP83 wrote:
Bullflip wrote:
RSP83 wrote:Overall, I'm amazed how different our team look now compare to last year. And we really only add Patrick Williams and Garrett Temple, who are like the 5th and 8th player in the pecking order. The last few years must have been a bigger disaster than I thought.


Just shows how bad Boylen really was.


and what a nonsense was that High School coaching philosophy, trying to teach this team how to "walk" before this team can "run". This is the freakin' same group.


Boylen if he had a presser today: "I am proud of how the kids have stepped up and it just shows that all the development work we did with them last season has paid off. Tell Donovan I said he is welcome."
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Re: PG: Bulls Clipped 

Post#203 » by VolumePoster » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:05 pm

FranchisePlayer wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:Lauri's lack of defense and motor not being around to hurt the team is a big reason why the team is playing better but ain't nobody wanna hear that…


you are providing some great material to bring up later :)


Insane stuff. The team supposedly plays better defense without Markkanen, yet the Clippers scored 130 points. :crazy:


This will be very interesting to follow up on. In the modern perimeter oriented league how valuable is rim protection (wcj) vs a big with somewhat better feet (lauri)? We’ve been getting killed by wcj sagging way into the paint.

Will be interesting to see.
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Re: PG: Bulls Clipped 

Post#204 » by coldfish » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:26 pm

RSP83 wrote:
Bullflip wrote:
RSP83 wrote:Overall, I'm amazed how different our team look now compare to last year. And we really only add Patrick Williams and Garrett Temple, who are like the 5th and 8th player in the pecking order. The last few years must have been a bigger disaster than I thought.


Just shows how bad Boylen really was.


and what a nonsense was that High School coaching philosophy, trying to teach this team how to "walk" before this team can "run". This is the freakin' same group.


In hindsight, what Boylen did was set up and extremely simple offensive system with the intent of teaching it and then adding complexity. It was so simple that opposing defenses figured it out almost immediately, making it so that it never worked, which prevented the team from every moving on from step 1.

This was noted weeks ago but what BD did was install a normal NBA offense and then told the team "figure it out". To their credit and his, they have. There is still work to be done but the team is much more difficult to defend than last year.
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Re: PG: Bulls Clipped 

Post#205 » by FranchisePlayer » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:27 pm

VolumePoster wrote:
FranchisePlayer wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:
you are providing some great material to bring up later :)


Insane stuff. The team supposedly plays better defense without Markkanen, yet the Clippers scored 130 points. :crazy:


This will be very interesting to follow up on. In the modern perimeter oriented league how valuable is rim protection (wcj) vs a big with somewhat better feet (lauri)? We’ve been getting killed by wcj sagging way into the paint.

Will be interesting to see.


Indeed. In the games Markkanen's been out, teams have scored 107, 130, 126, 108, 108, 128, 117 and 130 against us. 119,5 on average. Based on numbers, that's not good defense at all. Heck, we managed to shoot 47 out of 77 and STILL found a way to lose.

Offensive numbers are somewhat blurring the vision of how well the team is actually doing. I see a lot of talk of moral losses, refs sucking etc. but our record is what it is and the reality is there are still many things to improve on, is Markkanen on the court or not.

Part of reality is too that the team is much better than last season and credit for that goes to Donovan. Glad the days and threads of complimenting Boylen are gone.
MeloRoseNoah wrote:Comparing Markkanen the Euro soft bum to Eddy Curry Shaq Jr is an understatement and a drastic overvaluation of this Euro bust.
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Re: PG: Bulls Clipped 

Post#206 » by Leslie Forman » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:45 pm

FranchisePlayer wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:Lauri's lack of defense and motor not being around to hurt the team is a big reason why the team is playing better but ain't nobody wanna hear that…


you are providing some great material to bring up later :)


Insane stuff. The team supposedly plays better defense without Markkanen, yet the Clippers scored 130 points. :crazy:

I don't care what the numbers say this early in the season, things will regress/progress to the mean. But by the eye test, there are fewer "WTF was that" defensive possessions. And with Lauri, they were outrebounded 3 out of 4 times. Without Lauri, they have now outrebounded the competition 5 out of 7 times.

But if everybody here wants to tell me I'm just way off base and that the absence of Lauri is actually helping the offense, well…I won't argue with you there, since I think he's a negative player on both ends.
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Re: PG: Bulls Clipped 

Post#207 » by Butler4thewin » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:52 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:
FranchisePlayer wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:
you are providing some great material to bring up later :)


Insane stuff. The team supposedly plays better defense without Markkanen, yet the Clippers scored 130 points. :crazy:

I don't care what the numbers say this early in the season, things will regress/progress to the mean. But by the eye test, there are fewer "WTF was that" defensive possessions. And with Lauri, they were outrebounded 3 out of 4 times. Without Lauri, they have now outrebounded the competition 5 out of 7 times.

But if everybody here wants to tell me I'm just way off base and that the absence of Lauri is actually helping the offense, well…I won't argue with you there, since I think he's a negative player on both ends.

lets wait and see let him come back healthy and give us a 3 week stretch and we should have a good idea by then
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Re: PG: Bulls Clipped 

Post#208 » by Bullstuff » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:52 pm

Threekola wrote:
FriedRise wrote:
Read on Twitter


Cowley’s such a troll. Context matters bruh.


LOL! He can't be serious.


THB he does have a point though, although being 'somewhat' provocative. Zach is a very good player on the verge of being great or elite. Had he made the huge last shots vs both LA teams and we'd be talking elite.
He's in a good place though and it just feels like the whole team is getting better and better. Once the team takes that small but difficult step, that will probably take Zach over to elite.
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Re: PG: Bulls Clipped 

Post#209 » by madvillian » Mon Jan 11, 2021 4:59 pm

Bulls 27th in eFG against, 17th in defensive rebound rate, 26th in opponent's FT rate and 17th in forcing TO. Can't be a decent team until a couple of these stats improve. Near the bottom in FT rate and eFG given up while mediocre in forcing TO and getting the rebound is...pretty much why teams are scoring 120+ on the regular.
dumbell78 wrote:Random comment....Mikal Bridges stroke is dripping right now in summer league. Carry on.


I'll go ahead and make a sig bet that Mikal is better by RPM this year than Zach.
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Re: PG: Bulls Clipped 

Post#210 » by DroseReturnChi » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:04 pm

FranchisePlayer wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:
Leslie Forman wrote:Lauri's lack of defense and motor not being around to hurt the team is a big reason why the team is playing better but ain't nobody wanna hear that…


you are providing some great material to bring up later :)


Insane stuff. The team supposedly plays better defense without Markkanen, yet the Clippers scored 130 points. :crazy:


my boy leslie is a fortune teller. he will keep betting the bulls under because his crystal ball tells Bulls will plummet to a 150 pt defensive rating while Lauri as the main rim protector. Gotta waive bust Lauri before he implodes.

Being honest, hated Lauri's stupid extension talk would want to see him fail, lock him up for MLE but deal falling apart AK is to blame.
God told Derrick to rise, so Derrick Rose.
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Re: PG: Bulls Clipped 

Post#211 » by Magic beans » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:12 pm

Bullstuff wrote:
Threekola wrote:
FriedRise wrote:
Read on Twitter


Cowley’s such a troll. Context matters bruh.


LOL! He can't be serious.


THB he does have a point though, although being 'somewhat' provocative. Zach is a very good player on the verge of being great or elite. Had he made the huge last shots vs both LA teams and we'd be talking elite.
He's in a good place though and it just feels like the whole team is getting better and better. Once the team takes that small but difficult step, that will probably take Zach over to elite.


Agreed Zach was awesome in both games. He always seems to perform in LA. Can’t help but think if we had a full rotation we win both.
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Re: PG: Bulls Clipped 

Post#212 » by Stratmaster » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:13 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:
FranchisePlayer wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:
you are providing some great material to bring up later :)


Insane stuff. The team supposedly plays better defense without Markkanen, yet the Clippers scored 130 points. :crazy:

I don't care what the numbers say this early in the season, things will regress/progress to the mean. But by the eye test, there are fewer "WTF was that" defensive possessions. And with Lauri, they were outrebounded 3 out of 4 times. Without Lauri, they have now outrebounded the competition 5 out of 7 times.

But if everybody here wants to tell me I'm just way off base and that the absence of Lauri is actually helping the offense, well…I won't argue with you there, since I think he's a negative player on both ends.
The thing that makes me most hopeful that Lauri will somehow become a quality starter is the fact that you are so forcefully lobbying against him.

Can you post about Coby and Carter being horrible again too?

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Re: PG: Bulls Clipped 

Post#213 » by FranchisePlayer » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:16 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:
FranchisePlayer wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:
you are providing some great material to bring up later :)


Insane stuff. The team supposedly plays better defense without Markkanen, yet the Clippers scored 130 points. :crazy:

I don't care what the numbers say this early in the season, things will regress/progress to the mean. But by the eye test, there are fewer "WTF was that" defensive possessions. And with Lauri, they were outrebounded 3 out of 4 times. Without Lauri, they have now outrebounded the competition 5 out of 7 times.

But if everybody here wants to tell me I'm just way off base and that the absence of Lauri is actually helping the offense, well…I won't argue with you there, since I think he's a negative player on both ends.


If your argument is based on what "will" happen in the near future you're walking on pretty thin ice, man. "I don't care what the numbers say" isn't exactly helping to create a constructive discussion, either.

My eye test and numbers tell me the Bulls defense sucked mucho yesterday. They gave up 108 points in 3 quarters!! Your eye test might lie, but the numbers won't. Number of rebounds indicating they'd be better off in defense without Lauri?! You cannot be serious.
MeloRoseNoah wrote:Comparing Markkanen the Euro soft bum to Eddy Curry Shaq Jr is an understatement and a drastic overvaluation of this Euro bust.
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Re: PG: Bulls Clipped 

Post#214 » by GoBlue72391 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:16 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:
FranchisePlayer wrote:
PaKii94 wrote:
you are providing some great material to bring up later :)


Insane stuff. The team supposedly plays better defense without Markkanen, yet the Clippers scored 130 points. :crazy:

I don't care what the numbers say this early in the season, things will regress/progress to the mean. But by the eye test, there are fewer "WTF was that" defensive possessions. And with Lauri, they were outrebounded 3 out of 4 times. Without Lauri, they have now outrebounded the competition 5 out of 7 times.

But if everybody here wants to tell me I'm just way off base and that the absence of Lauri is actually helping the offense, well…I won't argue with you there, since I think he's a negative player on both ends.
In other words: I am biased and have an agenda.

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Re: PG: Bulls Clipped 

Post#215 » by Leslie Forman » Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:31 pm

Stratmaster wrote:The thing that makes me most hopeful that Lauri will somehow become a quality starter is the fact that you are so forcefully lobbying against him.

Can you post about Coby and Carter being horrible again too?

Well I think Pat Williams has legit All-NBA type potential and is the only guy here who I'm confident will still be on this roster in three years, so…sorry about the disaster of a career he's about to have, everybody!

I just find it really funny how Lauri's the next Dirk again after…let's see here…106 minutes of…let me check my notes…-15.2 NetRtg play. And oh yeah, the team playing just plain better basketball with him out.

If he just sits out the season, he should be some hybrid of LeBron/Shaq/Steph by around May.
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Re: PG: Bulls Clipped 

Post#216 » by PaKii94 » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:07 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:
Stratmaster wrote:The thing that makes me most hopeful that Lauri will somehow become a quality starter is the fact that you are so forcefully lobbying against him.

Can you post about Coby and Carter being horrible again too?

Well I think Pat Williams has legit All-NBA type potential and is the only guy here who I'm confident will still be on this roster in three years, so…sorry about the disaster of a career he's about to have, everybody!

I just find it really funny how Lauri's the next Dirk again after…let's see here…106 minutes of…let me check my notes…-15.2 NetRtg play. And oh yeah, the team playing just plain better basketball with him out.

If he just sits out the season, he should be some hybrid of LeBron/Shaq/Steph by around May.


Did you in your notes mention somewhere that the disclaimer of small sample size also applies to Lauri?

Or do you only note negative things for Lauri without context?
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Re: PG: Bulls Clipped 

Post#217 » by Leslie Forman » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:30 pm

PaKii94 wrote:Did you in your notes mention somewhere that the disclaimer of small sample size also applies to Lauri?

Or do you only note negative things for Lauri without context?

Bro…there's a freakin 174 game sample size for Lauri I'm basing my opinion on.
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Re: PG: Bulls Clipped 

Post#218 » by Indomitable » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:28 pm

MrFortune3 wrote:
Indomitable wrote:
MrFortune3 wrote:
Billy is a really good coach and he seems to really like coaching Zach.

Boylen and Fred were truly bad.


Bad but Fred had the worst possible fit of a roster for his coaching style.

Fred was a con man and Boylen was a buffoon.
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Re: PG: Bulls Clipped 

Post#219 » by Indomitable » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:32 pm

coldfish wrote:
RSP83 wrote:
Bullflip wrote:
Just shows how bad Boylen really was.


and what a nonsense was that High School coaching philosophy, trying to teach this team how to "walk" before this team can "run". This is the freakin' same group.


In hindsight, what Boylen did was set up and extremely simple offensive system with the intent of teaching it and then adding complexity. It was so simple that opposing defenses figured it out almost immediately, making it so that it never worked, which prevented the team from every moving on from step 1.

This was noted weeks ago but what BD did was install a normal NBA offense and then told the team "figure it out". To their credit and his, they have. There is still work to be done but the team is much more difficult to defend than last year.

Competence matters
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Re: PG: Bulls Clipped 

Post#220 » by kodo » Mon Jan 11, 2021 7:41 pm

Bullstuff wrote:
Threekola wrote:
FriedRise wrote:
Read on Twitter


Cowley’s such a troll. Context matters bruh.


LOL! He can't be serious.


THB he does have a point though, although being 'somewhat' provocative. Zach is a very good player on the verge of being great or elite. Had he made the huge last shots vs both LA teams and we'd be talking elite.
He's in a good place though and it just feels like the whole team is getting better and better. Once the team takes that small but difficult step, that will probably take Zach over to elite.


Expecting Lavine to single handedly win games vs championship teams is putting the bar higher than for HOF superstars.

In 18-19, Lebron led his team to a 37 win record. The champions that year were the Raps, and Lebron lost both games to them easily by 10-20 points. He didn't even get his team to within one possession to attempt a game winner.

Similarly in 04, Kobe led his team without Shaq to only 34 wins. His "empty stats" were basically the same as what Lavine's doing now, 27/5/6, and on lower efficiency (56% vs Lavine's 60%).

Winning games against championship contending teams still requires a minimum of talent on your roster, even if the leader is as good as Lebron or Bryant.

Lavine is doing beyond fine for a non all-star 25 year old who makes the same money as Bogdanovic.

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