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Nets trade fallout - who needs to do what

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Nets trade fallout - who needs to do what 

Post#1 » by MGB8 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:53 pm

Now that there's a new "big 3" in the Brooklyn, what, if any, counter-moves are other Eastern Contenders going to need to do?

IMO, while the Bucks probably shouldn't blow more future assets on improving their starting group, they need to improve their depth.
And while Bobby Portis has been doing an admirable job for them 12/8 on 56% FG, 41% from 3 - 19.2 PER, 63% TS... they do need at least one guy with legit size behind Brook.

Similarly, while they have room to carry Thanisis to appease Giannis, I don't see any room for scrubs Jaylen Adams and potential developmental player Sam Merrill. DJ Wilson had flashes suggesting he was developing last season... he doesn't look improved so far - they might be better eating his 4.5M expiring - could always stretch-waive - and replace with one of the many more productive available 4/5s out there.

IMO, the Bucks should cut the fat, and try to bring in Iman Shumpert before Brooklyn does, just to have one more defensive guard who is passable offensively to throw at Harden and Kyrie - and if not Shumpert, Brandon Knight or even kicking the tires on Courtney Lee. They should also bring in Noah Vonleh to replace DJ Wilson (nothing linking Vonleh to the Nets, at least not yet), and very possibly a Dedmond or O'Quinn, or even Mahinmi, for true size help.

The Sixers are also in a bit of a tough spot. They were playing elite defense early on, but with the COVID disruptions, it is not clear what they have now. On the one hand, Shake Milton looks like he is continuing to develop, and it looks like they did really well with Maxey. On the other, Thybulle has started out poorly, and Danny Green has been hit and miss.

Still, do they offer Danny Green, Thybulle, Maxey and a few 1st round picks to Washington for Beal? Or does that just mess things up and rob them of any non Simmons defensive ability on the perimeter? I kind of think the Sixers need to stand pat, as frustrating as that may end up being for them. For a second they looked like the best team in the league, and while they have their own injury and health issues, it wouldn't take much for Brooklyn to be a much weaker team.

The Celtics... no Kemba has been the limiting factor on them. He's now practicing with them - so we'll see what they look like when he gets back. Certainly Jaylen Brown looks like he's taken a pretty big leap forward. This is another team with serious depth issues, though (if the starters are Walker-Smart-Brown-Tatum-Thompson, then beyond Teague and sort of Theis, maybe the rookie Pritchard - who is a competent reserve.

I think Ainge needs to stop being stingy and make a a couple moves to seriously improve their depth. This is not a "fill out the deeper bench" situation - I wouldn't be comfortable with my 6-8 spots, especially with the Celtics players injury histories. However, they don't have a lot of salaries that are tradable - the bulk of their money is tied up in Kemba, Tatum, Brown, and then Thompson at 9M. So they can't trade for a big salary absent something like moving Kemba (and picks) for Beal (which, honestly, is something they should think about. That said, Malik Beasley at 13.3M would be doable, as would Terrance Ross at 13.5M. Derrick Rose at 7.7M would be interesting, too, and so would Josh Jackson at 4.8M.


As for the Heat, Bradley Beal would be the obvious target for them, and doable at "only" 28.8M - but they still would have to do either Dragic or Iggy dirty to match salaries - and they should be trying to retain Dragic for firepower purposes - especially since Herro would likely have to go out in the trade.

Still, I'd call up Washington and offer Herro and 2-3 future 1sts or whatever + Iggy (whatever needs to be done so that he's tradeable) + Leonard (ditto) to bring in Beal. Herro is a really nice player, but he's not as good as Beal - and if they want to contend, they need Beal-Butler-Bam type firepower.
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Re: Nets trade fallout - who needs to do what 

Post#2 » by sllubwoc » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:38 pm

If Kyrie was on the table and willing to play...what if the Bulls offered a package centered around Coby White and Markkanen. Would the Nets say no? Would we be crazy to give those guys up? I'm just dreaming about a situation where Kyrie Irving and Zach Lavine are your 2 guards. We'd be a scary team to go up against.
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Re: Nets trade fallout - who needs to do what 

Post#3 » by RSP83 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:41 pm

sllubwoc wrote:If Kyrie was on the table and willing to play...what if the Bulls offered a package centered around Coby White and Markkanen. Would the Nets say no? Would we be crazy to give those guys up? I'm just dreaming about a situation where Kyrie Irving and Zach Lavine are your 2 guards. We'd be a scary team to go up against.


Kyrie's mental worries me. And the gain with signing Kyrie is not worth it.
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Re: Nets trade fallout - who needs to do what 

Post#4 » by coldfish » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:53 pm

Random fallout observation:

These teams trading for a boatload of picks and swaps are going to find that their value really isn't that high and by having more of them, you actually hurt their value. Once you have a critical mass of young players, they all look bad. Unless some of them turn into top picks, these teams are going to turn these draft picks into dross. No one likes to trade down for picks, either because no one wants to have that many young guys.
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Re: Nets trade fallout - who needs to do what 

Post#5 » by sco » Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:55 pm

I'm thinking we should see what the asking price is for Wall and Boogie in HOU and Drummond in CLE.

Depending on the deal, Otto, Lauri and Wendell should be considered.
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Re: Nets trade fallout - who needs to do what 

Post#6 » by troza » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:07 pm

First of all the teams will need to see if these Nets work out fine with all the questions surrounding their best players:
- What is up with Irving?
- Is Durant able to get close to the form he was pre-injury when there were talks that he could be the best player in the NBA or will he not be able to reach that level?
- Will Harden be back into shape?

And about their chemistry and effectiveness on the field.

Then... Giannis signed an extension that should make the Bucks to not press the panic button and doing bad trades (like the Cavs did in 09/10). They should keep looking to improve what they have... as they should be already doing because they are behing the Lakers and the Clippers and they have title aspirations.

76ers and Celtics are good and young. I'm one that thinks that it is unlikely for the Heat to repeat what they did last year anyway.

So, the team I can see doing a big move first is the Heat. Young players, some of them with probably their biggest value of the career due to the last year's playoffs... but I have a feeling that they will wait and see if these Nets are looking like a real threat.



Finally... what will the Nets do after this. That's also a big question mark.
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Re: Nets trade fallout - who needs to do what 

Post#7 » by Little Nathan » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:07 pm

sco wrote:I'm thinking we should see what the asking price is for Wall and Boogie in HOU and Drummond in CLE.


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Re: Nets trade fallout - who needs to do what 

Post#8 » by Dresden » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:26 pm

coldfish wrote:Random fallout observation:

These teams trading for a boatload of picks and swaps are going to find that their value really isn't that high and by having more of them, you actually hurt their value. Once you have a critical mass of young players, they all look bad. Unless some of them turn into top picks, these teams are going to turn these draft picks into dross. No one likes to trade down for picks, either because no one wants to have that many young guys.


Although Boston did pretty well, turning their picks into Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum, two cornerstones they can build a team around for a decade. And despite how long it took, PHI did get Embiid and Simmons, who have at least made them relevant and a perennial playoff team again.
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Re: Nets trade fallout - who needs to do what 

Post#9 » by coldfish » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:31 pm

Dresden wrote:
coldfish wrote:Random fallout observation:

These teams trading for a boatload of picks and swaps are going to find that their value really isn't that high and by having more of them, you actually hurt their value. Once you have a critical mass of young players, they all look bad. Unless some of them turn into top picks, these teams are going to turn these draft picks into dross. No one likes to trade down for picks, either because no one wants to have that many young guys.


Although Boston did pretty well, turning their picks into Jaylen Brown (#3) and Jason Tatum (#3), two cornerstones they can build a team around for a decade. And despite how long it took, PHI did get Embiid (#3) and Simmons (#1), who have at least made them relevant and a perennial playoff team again.
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Re: Nets trade fallout - who needs to do what 

Post#10 » by BigJimFinn » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:12 pm

sllubwoc wrote:If Kyrie was on the table and willing to play...what if the Bulls offered a package centered around Coby White and Markkanen. Would the Nets say no? Would we be crazy to give those guys up? I'm just dreaming about a situation where Kyrie Irving and Zach Lavine are your 2 guards. We'd be a scary team to go up against.


That is not a trade the Nets would do. IF they look to trade Kyrie, and I believe sooner or later they have to, they would need two starters who are plus defenders, and one of them should be a reliable secondary ballhandler. That is ... not Lauri and Coby, who might make sense as a Dinwiddie replacement and 6th man scorer, but that is a different trade concept.

As for Kyrie + Zach backcourt, you would need an elite rim protector and two versatile wing defenders to make a sustainable lineup. So... Patrick Williams and two new guys, and you might have a winner!
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Re: Nets trade fallout - who needs to do what 

Post#11 » by MrSparkle » Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:38 pm

I'd keep a pulse on Simmons (LaVine, Thad/Otto + sweetener) - make him a full-time PF, play him with 4 shooters. 24yo all-star locked into 2025. Solves all the "creation" woes. Defends any spot. Donovan might get another notch out of him.

You have to take the chance on a buy low like that. His PER is at a career low, but he's a 3x all-star. His shooting is a problem, but the answer is to not pair him with a traditional low-post center.

Only catch is Morey. No way he takes the LaVine bait.
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Re: Nets trade fallout - who needs to do what 

Post#12 » by sllubwoc » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:14 pm

BigJimFinn wrote:
sllubwoc wrote:If Kyrie was on the table and willing to play...what if the Bulls offered a package centered around Coby White and Markkanen. Would the Nets say no? Would we be crazy to give those guys up? I'm just dreaming about a situation where Kyrie Irving and Zach Lavine are your 2 guards. We'd be a scary team to go up against.


That is not a trade the Nets would do. IF they look to trade Kyrie, and I believe sooner or later they have to, they would need two starters who are plus defenders, and one of them should be a reliable secondary ballhandler. That is ... not Lauri and Coby, who might make sense as a Dinwiddie replacement and 6th man scorer, but that is a different trade concept.

As for Kyrie + Zach backcourt, you would need an elite rim protector and two versatile wing defenders to make a sustainable lineup. So... Patrick Williams and two new guys, and you might have a winner!


Otto Porter isn't horrible and Carter is still young but I agree. I don't know if the Nets do it. Just an idea for a very fun back court.
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Re: Nets trade fallout - who needs to do what 

Post#13 » by dougthonus » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:20 pm

coldfish wrote:Random fallout observation:

These teams trading for a boatload of picks and swaps are going to find that their value really isn't that high and by having more of them, you actually hurt their value. Once you have a critical mass of young players, they all look bad. Unless some of them turn into top picks, these teams are going to turn these draft picks into dross. No one likes to trade down for picks, either because no one wants to have that many young guys.


OKC has:
2021: Houston (protected 1-4)
2024: Houston (protected 1-4)
2024: LAC's (unprotected)
2025: Swap rights with Houston (protected 1-10) or LAC (unprotected)
2026: Philly (protected 1-6) then (1-4), (1-4)
2026: Houston (protected 1-4)
2026: LAC

I could see any or all of those being very valuable and lotto picks. The Houston picks all have at least protection against the super elite areas of the draft, but it wouldn't surprise you if you got a bunch of #7s or #8s out of those. Who knows where the Clippers will be in 3-4 years, but it wouldn't surprise you if the answer is bad. Same with Philly.

I'd be surprised if they don't get at least 2-3 mid lotto picks out of that haul which is a huge, huge boon pending on the draft quality in the particular year and their draft acumen.

They also have tons of picks that project to be mid/late picks that they can use to pick up minor players, grease the wheels, move up a few spots etc.. I agree those won't project out to be great picks, but could still help.

The Pelicans are more dicey, but you wouldn't be shocked if LeBron falls off before one of their Lakers picks comes due and it ends up lottery. Giannis signing his supermax may stop those Milwaukee picks from being great, but boy it looked liked they might have hit the super lottery for a minute before he signed and he still may demand a trade or leave before they all come due.

The Nets cast has tons and tons of risk long term, I'd expect a couple of those Houston picks from Booklyn to pan out. Kyrie's flaky, Durant may not hold up so well post achilles, and who knows about Harden, he looks completely out of shape now, but he may resolve that. It wouldn't be surprising if that team falls apart though.

There is definitely risk with all of these trades for the teams that made them, but I don't know what the Thunder, Pelicans, or Rockets really risked in the process. Seems like good moves for all of them.
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Re: Nets trade fallout - who needs to do what 

Post#14 » by Indomitable » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:03 pm

The Celtics should trade for Jarret Allen. This would make them much tougher on defense.
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Re: Nets trade fallout - who needs to do what 

Post#15 » by Indomitable » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:05 pm

sco wrote:I'm thinking we should see what the asking price is for Wall and Boogie in HOU and Drummond in CLE.

Depending on the deal, Otto, Lauri and Wendell should be considered.

It is not 2014. This does not help you at all.

coldfish wrote:
Dresden wrote:
coldfish wrote:Random fallout observation:

These teams trading for a boatload of picks and swaps are going to find that their value really isn't that high and by having more of them, you actually hurt their value. Once you have a critical mass of young players, they all look bad. Unless some of them turn into top picks, these teams are going to turn these draft picks into dross. No one likes to trade down for picks, either because no one wants to have that many young guys.


Although Boston did pretty well, turning their picks into Jaylen Brown (#3) and Jason Tatum (#3), two cornerstones they can build a team around for a decade. And despite how long it took, PHI did get Embiid (#3) and Simmons (#1), who have at least made them relevant and a perennial playoff team again.

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Re: Nets trade fallout - who needs to do what 

Post#16 » by sco » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:09 pm

Indomitable wrote:
sco wrote:I'm thinking we should see what the asking price is for Wall and Boogie in HOU and Drummond in CLE.

Depending on the deal, Otto, Lauri and Wendell should be considered.

It is not 2014. This does not help you at all.

How much do you think they'd actually cost us...as you say it's not 2014. We have a bunch of cap space and few guys better than Wall. Drummond and Boogie are expirings, but we could see how they fit before committing anything. We're unlikely to resign Otto or Lauri, so we're risking little.
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Re: Nets trade fallout - who needs to do what 

Post#17 » by Indomitable » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:13 pm

sco wrote:
Indomitable wrote:
sco wrote:I'm thinking we should see what the asking price is for Wall and Boogie in HOU and Drummond in CLE.

Depending on the deal, Otto, Lauri and Wendell should be considered.

It is not 2014. This does not help you at all.

How much do you think they'd actually cost us...as you say it's not 2014. We have a bunch of cap space and few guys better than Wall. Drummond and Boogie are expirings, but we could see how they fit before committing anything. We're unlikely to resign Otto or Lauri, so we're risking little.

I do not really like Drummond, Boogie, or Wall. Get me somebody who is young or versatile.

Tell me how any of these players help you. Drummond is not worth the contract he will demand. Boogie and Wall are no longer stars. Plus you are willing to pay Wall 41,43, 45 million over the next 3 seasons. This is just not smart. He will be 31, 32, and 33. How does this help the Bulls to build.
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Re: Nets trade fallout - who needs to do what 

Post#18 » by sco » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:18 pm

Indomitable wrote:
sco wrote:
Indomitable wrote:It is not 2014. This does not help you at all.

How much do you think they'd actually cost us...as you say it's not 2014. We have a bunch of cap space and few guys better than Wall. Drummond and Boogie are expirings, but we could see how they fit before committing anything. We're unlikely to resign Otto or Lauri, so we're risking little.

I do not really like Drummond, Boogie, or Wall. Get me somebody who is young or versatile.

Tell me how any of these players help you. Drummond is not worth the contract he will demand. Boogie and Wall are no longer stars. Plus you are willing to pay Wall 41 million over the next 3 seasons. This is not good asset management.

The Bulls need to get lucky on buy-low scenarios. Wall and Boogie are 30, and depending on health (which is the big if), could return to near allstar form. In terms of the cap space, I just don't see a better likely target to spend that on (again assuming Wall is healthy).
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Re: Nets trade fallout - who needs to do what 

Post#19 » by Butler4thewin » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:29 pm

sco wrote:I'm thinking we should see what the asking price is for Wall and Boogie in HOU and Drummond in CLE.

Depending on the deal, Otto, Lauri and Wendell should be considered.

i like that except no lauri we allready invested alot of time in him need to see how he pans out this season....otto wcj 2022 1st for wall and boogie would make things interesting as **** in the east with all our shooters
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Re: Nets trade fallout - who needs to do what 

Post#20 » by Butler4thewin » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:33 pm

sco wrote:
Indomitable wrote:
sco wrote:How much do you think they'd actually cost us...as you say it's not 2014. We have a bunch of cap space and few guys better than Wall. Drummond and Boogie are expirings, but we could see how they fit before committing anything. We're unlikely to resign Otto or Lauri, so we're risking little.

I do not really like Drummond, Boogie, or Wall. Get me somebody who is young or versatile.

Tell me how any of these players help you. Drummond is not worth the contract he will demand. Boogie and Wall are no longer stars. Plus you are willing to pay Wall 41 million over the next 3 seasons. This is not good asset management.

The Bulls need to get lucky on buy-low scenarios. Wall and Boogie are 30, and depending on health (which is the big if), could return to near allstar form. In terms of the cap space, I just don't see a better likely target to spend that on (again assuming Wall is healthy).

i like wall i think he will definitely be worth the trade and boogie is alot more level headed now with how things went for him ......i think we get those 2 and only give up wcj and otto plus a first and we could legitimately fight the nets for a chance to play for a title

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