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Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks)

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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1181 » by dougthonus » Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:44 pm

TheJordanRule wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
TheJordanRule wrote:Aim higher at which player? Lonzo is available. I don't see a Donovan Mitchell or Jamal Murray equivalent widely available out there on the open market.


He's available at a price that likely vastly exceeds his talent and only if we shed players that are of similar caliber.


You tellin' me there's a much better upgrade out there that we're ignoring? I would love to have a better option.


No. I'm telling you that it is 50/50 whether Ball is an upgrade at all, and if he is an upgrade then it isn't a meaningful one, particularly based on the pricetag and other players you would need to let go to sign him.

So who's your alternative? Bring up the big name equivalent to Mitchell or Murray, who also happens to be available. I'll cheer for that move transpiring same as you.


I'm not convinced Ball improves this team at all compared to the cost of letting Sato/Lauri go and paying him enough that you can't chase anyone in 2022 FA.

And what's with this "similar caliber" stuff? Coby is a tier below Lonzo right now and for the next 2-3 years minimum. Your view seems to be from the 19-20 season. Last summer, Lonzo and Coby were basically even. Lonzo couldn't score and Coby couldn't defend. The situation has changed. Lonzo's brought his game up to be a legit two way starter on the floor. Lonzo can pass and limit turnovers. Coby can't do either of those things. Lonzo can play good defense. Coby can't and probably never will. And this year, the most crucial change happened-- Lonzo's scoring on greater efficiency, with a slightly better field goal percentage and a much better three ball.


I agree that Lonzo is better than Coby defensively. Offensively, I'm not really sure that's true. At the cost both in dollars and renouncing other players, I don't think the overall roster is upgraded by acquiring him in the scenarios that I see as reasonable.

You may tell me that you expect Coby, a former #6 pick in the NBA draft, to eventually catch up to Lonzo and surpass him. That's a wonderful expectation. Coby, with his straight line speed and potential as a scorer, is an impressive prospective. But Vooch is 30. Do do we really have time to wait around and see if Coby gets it together?


In the end, I think I just feel a lot less confident in Lonzo than you. Theoretically, I agree with why the Bulls would consider a win now move. I just don't think Lonzo is a win now move. I don't think the team is any better _at all_ after signing him and renouncing Lauri/Sato to do so.
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1182 » by sco » Fri Apr 2, 2021 6:36 pm

dougthonus wrote:
TheJordanRule wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
He's available at a price that likely vastly exceeds his talent and only if we shed players that are of similar caliber.


You tellin' me there's a much better upgrade out there that we're ignoring? I would love to have a better option.


No. I'm telling you that it is 50/50 whether Ball is an upgrade at all, and if he is an upgrade then it isn't a meaningful one, particularly based on the pricetag and other players you would need to let go to sign him.

So who's your alternative? Bring up the big name equivalent to Mitchell or Murray, who also happens to be available. I'll cheer for that move transpiring same as you.


I'm not convinced Ball improves this team at all compared to the cost of letting Sato/Lauri go and paying him enough that you can't chase anyone in 2022 FA.

And what's with this "similar caliber" stuff? Coby is a tier below Lonzo right now and for the next 2-3 years minimum. Your view seems to be from the 19-20 season. Last summer, Lonzo and Coby were basically even. Lonzo couldn't score and Coby couldn't defend. The situation has changed. Lonzo's brought his game up to be a legit two way starter on the floor. Lonzo can pass and limit turnovers. Coby can't do either of those things. Lonzo can play good defense. Coby can't and probably never will. And this year, the most crucial change happened-- Lonzo's scoring on greater efficiency, with a slightly better field goal percentage and a much better three ball.


I agree that Lonzo is better than Coby defensively. Offensively, I'm not really sure that's true. At the cost both in dollars and renouncing other players, I don't think the overall roster is upgraded by acquiring him in the scenarios that I see as reasonable.

You may tell me that you expect Coby, a former #6 pick in the NBA draft, to eventually catch up to Lonzo and surpass him. That's a wonderful expectation. Coby, with his straight line speed and potential as a scorer, is an impressive prospective. But Vooch is 30. Do do we really have time to wait around and see if Coby gets it together?


In the end, I think I just feel a lot less confident in Lonzo than you. Theoretically, I agree with why the Bulls would consider a win now move. I just don't think Lonzo is a win now move. I don't think the team is any better _at all_ after signing him and renouncing Lauri/Sato to do so.

Yeah, I'm coming around on Sato...he's been decent as a starter: 10ppg 6.1ast 2.7rb 1.3 st 2.1 to's shooting 52% and 35% from 3.

I like Ball's defense more, but, like most decisions it comes down to opportunity cost of signing Ball vs. our alternatives.
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1183 » by Chi town » Fri Apr 2, 2021 7:31 pm

You don’t sign Lonzo for who he is. You sign him for who he will be. If he keeps getting marginally better for a couple more seasons you are looking at a Luol Deng level winning player that is the perfect fit for the modern NBA.

Is he hurt? Just avoiding injury because he doesn’t want to play in Nola?
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1184 » by StunnerKO » Mon Apr 5, 2021 3:06 am

Read on Twitter
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1185 » by fleet » Mon Apr 5, 2021 3:17 am

sco wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
TheJordanRule wrote:
You tellin' me there's a much better upgrade out there that we're ignoring? I would love to have a better option.


No. I'm telling you that it is 50/50 whether Ball is an upgrade at all, and if he is an upgrade then it isn't a meaningful one, particularly based on the pricetag and other players you would need to let go to sign him.

So who's your alternative? Bring up the big name equivalent to Mitchell or Murray, who also happens to be available. I'll cheer for that move transpiring same as you.


I'm not convinced Ball improves this team at all compared to the cost of letting Sato/Lauri go and paying him enough that you can't chase anyone in 2022 FA.

And what's with this "similar caliber" stuff? Coby is a tier below Lonzo right now and for the next 2-3 years minimum. Your view seems to be from the 19-20 season. Last summer, Lonzo and Coby were basically even. Lonzo couldn't score and Coby couldn't defend. The situation has changed. Lonzo's brought his game up to be a legit two way starter on the floor. Lonzo can pass and limit turnovers. Coby can't do either of those things. Lonzo can play good defense. Coby can't and probably never will. And this year, the most crucial change happened-- Lonzo's scoring on greater efficiency, with a slightly better field goal percentage and a much better three ball.


I agree that Lonzo is better than Coby defensively. Offensively, I'm not really sure that's true. At the cost both in dollars and renouncing other players, I don't think the overall roster is upgraded by acquiring him in the scenarios that I see as reasonable.

You may tell me that you expect Coby, a former #6 pick in the NBA draft, to eventually catch up to Lonzo and surpass him. That's a wonderful expectation. Coby, with his straight line speed and potential as a scorer, is an impressive prospective. But Vooch is 30. Do do we really have time to wait around and see if Coby gets it together?


In the end, I think I just feel a lot less confident in Lonzo than you. Theoretically, I agree with why the Bulls would consider a win now move. I just don't think Lonzo is a win now move. I don't think the team is any better _at all_ after signing him and renouncing Lauri/Sato to do so.

Yeah, I'm coming around on Sato...he's been decent as a starter: 10ppg 6.1ast 2.7rb 1.3 st 2.1 to's shooting 52% and 35% from 3.

I like Ball's defense more, but, like most decisions it comes down to opportunity cost of signing Ball vs. our alternatives.

You can come around on Sato, but we’re also talking about a player 7 years younger with more upside to tap.
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1186 » by WindyCityBorn » Mon Apr 5, 2021 4:32 am

StunnerKO wrote:
Read on Twitter
?s=21


Target #1 for sure. I’d renounce Sato(who I would love to keep as a backup) and Lauri for him.
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1187 » by Chi town » Mon Apr 5, 2021 4:51 am

Nice game. It was the Rockets keep in mind.
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1188 » by ZOMG » Mon Apr 5, 2021 6:25 am

You think Lonzo will happily be the 3rd option in Chicago, with the ball out of his hands?
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1189 » by WindyCityBorn » Mon Apr 5, 2021 7:39 am

ZOMG wrote:You think Lonzo will happily be the 3rd option in Chicago, with the ball out of his hands?


Sato runs our offense. Why would Lonzo’s role be any different? We have pretty strong indication that Chicago is one of his preferred destinations so yeah I think he would be fine with it.
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1190 » by Hugi Mancura » Mon Apr 5, 2021 12:14 pm

Will Bulls offer more than Knicks and does Lonzo have to accept Bulls offer over Knicks offer if Bulls offer is higher?

Lonzo's goal was to put Bulls and Knicks to a bidding war for him, but I think he prefers Knicks. So if those offers are even near each other I think he will choose Knicks.

Lonzo is better at his age than Lavine was and he can help team win tight games on both ends of the floor. He can still grow and would be growing with PWill, Lavine and others. Off course he carries the same threat as all the young players that he has reached his maximum.

But would I lose Lauri and Sato for hope to get him? I don't think Lonzo will sign with Bulls if he gets offer from Knicks and I do believe he will get one.
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1191 » by sco » Mon Apr 5, 2021 12:49 pm

Hugi Mancura wrote:Will Bulls offer more than Knicks and does Lonzo have to accept Bulls offer over Knicks offer if Bulls offer is higher?

Lonzo's goal was to put Bulls and Knicks to a bidding war for him, but I think he prefers Knicks. So if those offers are even near each other I think he will choose Knicks.

Lonzo is better at his age than Lavine was and he can help team win tight games on both ends of the floor. He can still grow and would be growing with PWill, Lavine and others. Off course he carries the same threat as all the young players that he has reached his maximum.

But would I lose Lauri and Sato for hope to get him? I don't think Lonzo will sign with Bulls if he gets offer from Knicks and I do believe he will get one.

The only reason I think Ball may choose the Bulls over the Knicks is that Quickly is a baller (despite the fact Thib's religion doesn't allow for starting rooks) and (money being equal - which IMO is goals #1-3 for Ball) he might go for the Bulls who have no PG's (assuming Sato is gone). Lauri is gone no matter what, we can only hope to nab a 2nd rounder for the courtesy of a S&T.
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