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Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks)

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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1141 » by Clocian » Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:32 pm

fleet wrote:
StunnerKO wrote:
Read on Twitter
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It is going to be a matter of roster preference then. The money offered will likely be the same. The Knicks do seem to have their **** together more at this point.


Haven't really paid attention to other teams who are interested in Lonzo, are the Knicks one of them?
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1142 » by kodo » Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:39 am

It's pretty clear Lonzo wants out, I think the deciding factor isn't Lonzo it's what NO wants for a S&T and which team is actually willing to give that up for a FA. If the rumor was true that Pels wanted a young prospect and a good 1st rounder, yeah no thanks.
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1143 » by dougthonus » Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:17 am

kodo wrote:It's pretty clear Lonzo wants out, I think the deciding factor isn't Lonzo it's what NO wants for a S&T and which team is actually willing to give that up for a FA. If the rumor was true that Pels wanted a young prospect and a good 1st rounder, yeah no thanks.


It's a tricky situation for the Bulls, because to bid with cap room they'd have to make undesirable roster moves (I think probably cut Thad/Sato/renounce Lauri but maybe not all three). If you cut Thad/Sato then don't get Lonzo you really hosed yourself big time, so you then put yourself in tremendous jeopardy.
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1144 » by Wingy » Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:59 am

kodo wrote:It's pretty clear Lonzo wants out, I think the deciding factor isn't Lonzo it's what NO wants for a S&T and which team is actually willing to give that up for a FA. If the rumor was true that Pels wanted a young prospect and a good 1st rounder, yeah no thanks.


I don't know...if he really does want out, I think NO would have a tough time playing hardball. As we all know, Ball's from a unique situation, and I don't think he'd be afraid to buck the system, threaten to sit out - and then actually do it.

Before anything got ugly, I'm sure he'd let it be known he doesn't want to be there, and at that point it's in everyone's best interest to try to make something happen. Playing chicken w/one of Lavar Ball's sons isn't the same as your average player.
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1145 » by DASMACKDOWN » Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:11 am

The thing is, Lonzo also realizes New Orleans doesnt need him. He is more of a luxury.

They have decided to run the offense thru Zion and secondarily BI and its working out extremely well for them. Zion is avg 33.5 in the last 4 that Lonzo has missed. They are 3-1
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1146 » by FriedRise » Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:21 am

If Lonzo makes it public that he wants out, that should shift the leverage to his side regardless of his contract status; the Pels will have no other option but to let him walk. He can get an offer sheet from us, the Knicks, some other team - maybe take the highest one if there's a bidding war going on - and the Pels will just not match.

You don't keep around a player when he doesn't wanna be there. Teams usually end up trading players for 50c on the dollar when it's made it known to the public that said players want to be traded. If they're star, you might make them wait a little longer until you get a really good haul but you'll risk making the whole situation toxic (Harden). When you're the team, you want these things to be handled internally so you don't lose your leverage and can get more value back your way. But the moment the news hits the media, you have no other choice but to take what you can get.
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1147 » by StunnerKO » Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:32 pm

Shoot they kept Eric Gordon from going to Phx lmao
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1148 » by sco » Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:05 pm

dougthonus wrote:
kodo wrote:It's pretty clear Lonzo wants out, I think the deciding factor isn't Lonzo it's what NO wants for a S&T and which team is actually willing to give that up for a FA. If the rumor was true that Pels wanted a young prospect and a good 1st rounder, yeah no thanks.


It's a tricky situation for the Bulls, because to bid with cap room they'd have to make undesirable roster moves (I think probably cut Thad/Sato/renounce Lauri but maybe not all three). If you cut Thad/Sato then don't get Lonzo you really hosed yourself big time, so you then put yourself in tremendous jeopardy.

Renouncing Lauri strikes me as a no-brainer. Also, shouldn't they be able to trade Sato for a second rounder pretty easily? I'd let Lauri go regardless of Ball...that money is better spent elsewhere. Sato is a little trickier, but if we're not sold on him as our starting PG, how big of a risk is it really because if we don't get ball, we'll go after somebody else. Surely, Sato could fetch us a 2nd round pick. Honestly, I'd try to package Sato and White to nab a late 1st.
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1149 » by dougthonus » Mon Mar 29, 2021 1:14 pm

sco wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
kodo wrote:It's pretty clear Lonzo wants out, I think the deciding factor isn't Lonzo it's what NO wants for a S&T and which team is actually willing to give that up for a FA. If the rumor was true that Pels wanted a young prospect and a good 1st rounder, yeah no thanks.


It's a tricky situation for the Bulls, because to bid with cap room they'd have to make undesirable roster moves (I think probably cut Thad/Sato/renounce Lauri but maybe not all three). If you cut Thad/Sato then don't get Lonzo you really hosed yourself big time, so you then put yourself in tremendous jeopardy.

Renouncing Lauri strikes me as a no-brainer. Also, shouldn't they be able to trade Sato for a second rounder pretty easily? I'd let Lauri go regardless of Ball...that money is better spent elsewhere. Sato is a little trickier, but if we're not sold on him as our starting PG, how big of a risk is it really because if we don't get ball, we'll go after somebody else. Surely, Sato could fetch us a 2nd round pick. Honestly, I'd try to package Sato and White to nab a late 1st.


It's Sato/Thad that is tricky for the most part.

Lauri they can always QO him then renounce the QO, so there isn't much risk.
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1150 » by Darius Miles Davis » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:28 pm

dougthonus wrote:
sco wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
It's a tricky situation for the Bulls, because to bid with cap room they'd have to make undesirable roster moves (I think probably cut Thad/Sato/renounce Lauri but maybe not all three). If you cut Thad/Sato then don't get Lonzo you really hosed yourself big time, so you then put yourself in tremendous jeopardy.

Renouncing Lauri strikes me as a no-brainer. Also, shouldn't they be able to trade Sato for a second rounder pretty easily? I'd let Lauri go regardless of Ball...that money is better spent elsewhere. Sato is a little trickier, but if we're not sold on him as our starting PG, how big of a risk is it really because if we don't get ball, we'll go after somebody else. Surely, Sato could fetch us a 2nd round pick. Honestly, I'd try to package Sato and White to nab a late 1st.


It's Sato/Thad that is tricky for the most part.

Lauri they can always QO him then renounce the QO, so there isn't much risk.


It would seem that there would be other options for clearing cap room. Renouncing Lauri would probably have to happen. Maybe renouncing Sato but not Thad. We could potentially stretch Aminu. I don't think stretching Aminu would have huge ramifications for us (3.4 million or so on the books each of the next three years, dead money), as we are shaping up to be an above-the-cap team in 2022-23 and 2023-24 (if not this next year) with Zach's likely extension. That would clear 6.8 million, whereas cutting Thad outright would only net us around 8.2 million extra cap room, as he is entitled to 6 million of his 14.2 salary next year if we don't bring him back.

I'm guessing someone in the league might want to take a flier on Troy Brown for free, which could potentially clear 5.2 million if need be. I would prefer to keep him if possible.

So, as a summary, to obtain Lonzo, I think I would probably be ready to renounce Lauri and Sato and stretch Aminu if that's what it took.

Meanwhile, I'd also be curious what people think are sign and trade scenarios that would actually appeal to the Pelicans. If Lonzo wants out, I think Coby would be pretty good return. It would require adding quite a bit more salary to satisfy the salary cap ingoing/outgoing rules, but we do have some more expiring salaries in Aminu and Brown.

Getting Lonzo is tricky, but doable.
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1151 » by Darius Miles Davis » Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:32 pm

...
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1152 » by R3AL1TY » Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:23 pm

imagge wrote:
R3AL1TY wrote:After the move for Vucevic, the Lonzo sweepstakes is over for the Bulls. They will probably shift gears with an older vet now.


KC on the podcast said S&T for lonzo is very much alive

I see the Knicks overbidding for him.
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1153 » by TheFinishSniper » Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:28 pm

R3AL1TY wrote:
imagge wrote:
R3AL1TY wrote:After the move for Vucevic, the Lonzo sweepstakes is over for the Bulls. They will probably shift gears with an older vet now.


KC on the podcast said S&T for lonzo is very much alive

I see the Knicks overbidding for him.

Bulls should put offer in FA for him. If Knicks offer more good for them. But overpaying him aint my interest.
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1154 » by Axl Rose » Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:31 pm

The Knicks will probably offer him a max deal.
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1155 » by dougthonus » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:32 am

Darius Miles Davis wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
sco wrote:Renouncing Lauri strikes me as a no-brainer. Also, shouldn't they be able to trade Sato for a second rounder pretty easily? I'd let Lauri go regardless of Ball...that money is better spent elsewhere. Sato is a little trickier, but if we're not sold on him as our starting PG, how big of a risk is it really because if we don't get ball, we'll go after somebody else. Surely, Sato could fetch us a 2nd round pick. Honestly, I'd try to package Sato and White to nab a late 1st.


It's Sato/Thad that is tricky for the most part.

Lauri they can always QO him then renounce the QO, so there isn't much risk.


It would seem that there would be other options for clearing cap room. Renouncing Lauri would probably have to happen. Maybe renouncing Sato but not Thad. We could potentially stretch Aminu. I don't think stretching Aminu would have huge ramifications for us (3.4 million or so on the books each of the next three years, dead money), as we are shaping up to be an above-the-cap team in 2022-23 and 2023-24 (if not this next year) with Zach's likely extension. That would clear 6.8 million, whereas cutting Thad outright would only net us around 8.2 million extra cap room, as he is entitled to 6 million of his 14.2 salary next year if we don't bring him back.

I'm guessing someone in the league might want to take a flier on Troy Brown for free, which could potentially clear 5.2 million if need be. I would prefer to keep him if possible.

So, as a summary, to obtain Lonzo, I think I would probably be ready to renounce Lauri and Sato and stretch Aminu if that's what it took.

Meanwhile, I'd also be curious what people think are sign and trade scenarios that would actually appeal to the Pelicans. If Lonzo wants out, I think Coby would be pretty good return. It would require adding quite a bit more salary to satisfy the salary cap ingoing/outgoing rules, but we do have some more expiring salaries in Aminu and Brown.

Getting Lonzo is tricky, but doable.


I think at the time I ran the numbers I didn't even have those other guys on there because that trade may not have been made yet. Need to go back and check it all out again.
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1156 » by gobullschi » Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:58 am

S&T: Lonzo Ball (4 - Year - 92 Million) for Coby White + Al-Farouq Aminu + Ryan Arcidiacano
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1157 » by TheStig » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:43 am

I think there is a sign and trade to be made here. I think they'll end up keeping Lauri and adding Ball. Something like Sato, Thad/Aminu, Coby and 2 2nds for Ball.
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1158 » by jnrjr79 » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:31 am

dougthonus wrote:
sco wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
It's a tricky situation for the Bulls, because to bid with cap room they'd have to make undesirable roster moves (I think probably cut Thad/Sato/renounce Lauri but maybe not all three). If you cut Thad/Sato then don't get Lonzo you really hosed yourself big time, so you then put yourself in tremendous jeopardy.

Renouncing Lauri strikes me as a no-brainer. Also, shouldn't they be able to trade Sato for a second rounder pretty easily? I'd let Lauri go regardless of Ball...that money is better spent elsewhere. Sato is a little trickier, but if we're not sold on him as our starting PG, how big of a risk is it really because if we don't get ball, we'll go after somebody else. Surely, Sato could fetch us a 2nd round pick. Honestly, I'd try to package Sato and White to nab a late 1st.


It's Sato/Thad that is tricky for the most part.

Lauri they can always QO him then renounce the QO, so there isn't much risk.


My guess is they’ll S&T to resolve the cap issues, but I read an analysis yesterday that said there’d be about $21M in cap space by letting Lauri and Sato walk, but picking up Thad’s option.
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1159 » by dougthonus » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:24 pm

Weird to me people are so much higher on Ball than Coby that they want to pay him 3x as much and give up other assets. I don't think Ball moves the needle much at all. He's playing with two great players now and their team sucks and they don't run him at PG.
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Re: Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks) 

Post#1160 » by Ice Man » Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:39 pm

dougthonus wrote:Weird to me people are so much higher on Ball than Coby that they want to pay him 3x as much and give up other assets. I don't think Ball moves the needle much at all. He's playing with two great players now and their team sucks and they don't run him at PG.


Yeah, my general rule is that if a guy is the 3rd best player on a losing team, how much value does he really bring? One positive for Lonzo, though, is that he took his game forward this year. He's not so old that he couldn't do that again, and if he so, then he truly would be worth a major contract.

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