Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks)

[sco]

There’s threads for Ball so I’ll make it quick. I don’t care what the Pels did. He’s a point guard. Even if I did, it’s not a red flag because he’ll be playing with Lavine who will have the ball a lot anyway. He’s got great size, defense, and would be a vision/passing upgrade. He’s shown he has an excellent attitude and strong work ethic to improve.

And he fits the timeline.

The issue to me is not whether he’s a fit. He is. The issue is that we still probably won’t get him.

Moving this over to the Lonzo thread.

The issue to you is he is not a fit because of what the Pels did is fine. The issue to me that he was awful when playing as a traditional PG and has found success in a SG role means he's unlikely to solve our problem of having a PG.

I'm not really sure that we really need a PG with Zach/Vuc in here as much though as we need good 3/D players. Maybe one other guy with a good handle that can create his own shot would be valuable, but Vuc/Zach can run enough offense. I think Lonzo might be fine, but I don't think we're great when Coby has a good game because he's a good PG in those good games. We're good in those games because we have a quality 3rd option to generate their own shots and knock down threes and maybe Lonzo could do that, but I don't trust him all that much in that role either.

Either way, with all that said, I'll go back to my other statement of Lonzo/Schroeder are probably the best options that exist, so what else can you do. I hate everything we've done so far with this new FO and the more I think about it the more I hate it, but oh well, such is life.

Yeah, I expect that neither will end-up a viable option due to $. Watching the Knicks (my 2nd team), I've warmed to Payton or Rose as our best options for next season. Either is an upgrade to Coby (who I like as our 2nd unit SG).

[Tetlak]

Elfrid Payton is certainly not an upgrade to anyone, but I think Rose is a realistic option. I can see him going back to NY almost assuredly though.

[Tetlak]

As for Lonzo himself, yes, it is true his offensive role has been massively reduced this season. He certainly is capable of handling the ball more, but we'd be fooling ourselves if we expect too much from him. He simply doesn't have an all around offensive game - he has less in his bag than Sato to be completely honest, but he has more upside...just not as an allstar level player.

I doubt we'd be able to get him at a price that makes sense.

[FriedRise]

As long as Thibs is still coaching, would DRose play for anyone else?

[Hold That]

Lonzo would be a viable 3rd and even a luxury 4th option on an aspiring championship team. I feel like people crap on acquiring players if they aren’t obvious 1st or 2nd options. First and second options aren’t really available through trades and if they are you’re paying premium. With that said you still have the fill out the roster. I’m 100% on board for adding on a playmaking two way player. Ball has always been a no brainer on this team even at 20mil per. He’s one of the safer bets at his age if you’re throwing that amount of money at him. He’s young, defends, great work ethic and above average court vision.

[Wingy]

I can't speak to it, but wondering how many folks here say Ball's a good defender based on watching a decent sample size of games? Wonder how many are simply regurgitating it based on what they hear? I keep going back to the stuff from Pelicans fans (my post on page 60)...

"There are still people who talk about him like he's this PG savant and a lockdown defender, when neither of those things are close to true."

"The lock down defender narrative is by far way more egregious that PG savant. He constantly gets cooked, fouls, and never gets set to jam a ballhandler."

Then stuff like this. This is a response to a video that someone posted...talking about making Lonzo more effective...seemed to be in a nutshell eventually saying he needs to be out of the new 3/D role:

"You dont build a scheme around an average to below average player - to make him the best he can possibly be. You do that for stars. I mean, I am sure there are ways we can make Adams look much better, but you dont make that a priority.

He has failed in numerous opportunities, in different roles. And if he showed ability to be as great as this guy thinks he can be in those moments when he was playing other ways, a coach would bend over backwards to design a team around him. But I guarantee you he will never be the player this guy seems to think he can be and the blame will always be on someone else. Like there is some great talent underneath it all and there is a conspiracy to hold him back"

I mean...we are going beserk on this board for what sounds almost word for word like the guard version of Lauri Markkanen.

[chefo]

I can't speak to it, but wondering how many folks here say Ball's a good defender based on watching a decent sample size of games? Wonder how many are simply regurgitating it based on what they hear? I keep going back to the stuff from Pelicans fans (my post on page 60)...

"There are still people who talk about him like he's this PG savant and a lockdown defender, when neither of those things are close to true."

"The lock down defender narrative is by far way more egregious that PG savant. He constantly gets cooked, fouls, and never gets set to jam a ballhandler."

Then stuff like this. This is a response to a video that someone posted...talking about making Lonzo more effective...seemed to be in a nutshell eventually saying he needs to be out of the new 3/D role:

"You dont build a scheme around an average to below average player - to make him the best he can possibly be. You do that for stars. I mean, I am sure there are ways we can make Adams look much better, but you dont make that a priority.

He has failed in numerous opportunities, in different roles. And if he showed ability to be as great as this guy thinks he can be in those moments when he was playing other ways, a coach would bend over backwards to design a team around him. But I guarantee you he will never be the player this guy seems to think he can be and the blame will always be on someone else. Like there is some great talent underneath it all and there is a conspiracy to hold him back"

I mean...we are going beserk on this board for what sounds almost word for word like the guard version of Lauri Markkanen.

Lauri is a better player than Lonzo... yep, heard it here first. Lauri has one, truly redeeming quality--when he scores, he does it an elite efficiency, mostly because this year he finally had the epiphany that he's 7 feet tall and can score inside at will against guys half a foot shorter than him. So, he's a big who can score at 75% at the rim and shoot 40% from 3 on high volume. That guy has shown that he can be an above-average starter, it's a question how and when he gets there.

Four years in, and Lonzo is still more hype than substance. Dude is a replacement-level player if there ever was one. He's not particularly good at anything--not running a team (tried that, didn't work), shooting, defense (that good defender thing is Youtube hype, not 82-game reality, and that's backed by the numbers--he's not quick enough or strong enough to be a lockdown defender), he gets 1st option touches to get you 4th option numbers (he's the anti-Lauri in that regard); he can't drive and break the D.

So what again is he good at apart from hiring agents that are superb at pumping him up and making him a social media star? The guy has not had one good season so far in the NBA. Lauri at least had soph Lauri.

Lonzo is much more the WCJ of PGs, which explains why NOLA wants him gone, and especially at his "fair market" value, which is simply his agent trying to create anchoring bias in teams. Dude is probably worth Sato money, but repeat that $20M number enough times and all it takes is only guy to buy the hype for it to become true.

[Michael Jackson]

I can't speak to it, but wondering how many folks here say Ball's a good defender based on watching a decent sample size of games? Wonder how many are simply regurgitating it based on what they hear? I keep going back to the stuff from Pelicans fans (my post on page 60)...

"There are still people who talk about him like he's this PG savant and a lockdown defender, when neither of those things are close to true."

"The lock down defender narrative is by far way more egregious that PG savant. He constantly gets cooked, fouls, and never gets set to jam a ballhandler."

Then stuff like this. This is a response to a video that someone posted...talking about making Lonzo more effective...seemed to be in a nutshell eventually saying he needs to be out of the new 3/D role:

"You dont build a scheme around an average to below average player - to make him the best he can possibly be. You do that for stars. I mean, I am sure there are ways we can make Adams look much better, but you dont make that a priority.

He has failed in numerous opportunities, in different roles. And if he showed ability to be as great as this guy thinks he can be in those moments when he was playing other ways, a coach would bend over backwards to design a team around him. But I guarantee you he will never be the player this guy seems to think he can be and the blame will always be on someone else. Like there is some great talent underneath it all and there is a conspiracy to hold him back"

I mean...we are going beserk on this board for what sounds almost word for word like the guard version of Lauri Markkanen.

Lauri is a better player than Lonzo... yep, heard it here first. Lauri has one, truly redeeming quality--when he scores, he does it an elite efficiency, mostly because this year he finally had the epiphany that he's 7 feet tall and can score inside at will against guys half a foot shorter than him. So, he's a big who can score at 75% at the rim and shoot 40% from 3 on high volume. That guy has shown that he can be an above-average starter, it's a question how and when he gets there.

Four years in, and Lonzo is still more hype than substance. Dude is a replacement-level player if there ever was one. He's not particularly good at anything--not running a team (tried that, didn't work), shooting, defense (that good defender thing is Youtube hype, not 82-game reality, and that's backed by the numbers--he's not quick enough or strong enough to be a lockdown defender), he gets 1st option touches to get you 4th option numbers (he's the anti-Lauri in that regard); he can't drive and break the D.

So what again is he good at apart from hiring agents that are superb at pumping him up and making him a social media star? The guy has not had one good season so far in the NBA. Lauri at least had soph Lauri.

Lonzo is much more the WCJ of PGs, which explains why NOLA wants him gone, and especially at his "fair market" value, which is simply his agent trying to create anchoring bias in teams. Dude is probably worth Sato money, but repeat that $20M number enough times and all it takes is only guy to buy the hype for it to become true.

Agreed. I am not a big Lauri fan but Ball is really just OK. he doesn't change much for this team. he isn't the missing piece that is suddenly going tp get it. He is not his brother and I guess we all knew that, and actually thought LaMelo was worse than he was because of Lonzo. I'm not saying he isn't worth adding, he would be fine enough on the team but he is not changing anything. He might be only option available for upgrade and we will end up with him, but Lauri still has higher upside than Zo to me. The Ball "unlocks" the Bulls has been snake oil. Make no mistake I am not clamoring for Rose to come back here but I would guess if healthy which is a big if he could have more productivity than Ball with this team. I wouldn't be all pissed if Ball came here but I wouldn't have high expectations either. If LaMelo forces his way here though because Lonzo is here that might change my opinion LOL.

[TheJordanRule]

I've been on the Lonzo train for a while but his absolutely piss poor ability to stay healthy is really giving me second thoughts. We can't have a starting PG who consistently misses 25 percent of the season or more each year. It's a detriment to the team and doesn't inspire confidence in the post season either. At this point, even though I like Lonzo's potential as a pure PG, I'm out on a big payday for Lonzo. Give him a "Prove It" contract or let someone else take the gamble and suffer through all of his nicks and bruises.