Billy Donovan

[Leslie Forman]

Is this the beginning of the Matt Nagy-ing of Donovan in this town? Because it kinda feels like it.

[ZOMG]

IMO, Billy is definitely better than Jimbo but who isn't?

Billy is a good offensive coach but terrible at defensive schemes and has no clue on how to change things up when they aren't going your way. How can you watch over and over and over and over again that Hawks run the same plays for an Oop or an easy floater for Trae but we didn't adjust even once.

Billy should have atleast tried trapping Young right after halfcourt (like they did with Lavine) and break their rhythm. Yeah they might make a basket or 2 but like Nate did, rather see someone else beat us than the star player (Lavine/Trae).

This is like how many times Billy has been outcoached by the other team???? His rotations are also in question many times than not. If anything I rather put defensive players next to Lavine and Vuc and go from there. Coby and Lauri might score a few but they will give up a TON on the other end so what is the point???

What people don't seem to understand is that Vuc in particular NEEDS offensive players around him. He's not a guy who just creates points out of thin air.

He needs spacing. He needs movement (with the D having to pay attention to several dangerous scorers at once).

This notion that all you have to do is surround Zach and Vuc with Kris Dunn types is ridiculous.

Ideally, we'd surround them with players who are both good/great scorers AND defenders. But in the NBA, those people tend to be called stars. And they're f**king expensive.

Zach and Vuc are both 2nd bananas. You don't "surround" these guys with players whose only job is to fill the holes in their games. The holes are just too big.

[FranchisePlayer]

IMO, Billy is definitely better than Jimbo but who isn't?

Billy is a good offensive coach but terrible at defensive schemes and has no clue on how to change things up when they aren't going your way. How can you watch over and over and over and over again that Hawks run the same plays for an Oop or an easy floater for Trae but we didn't adjust even once.

Billy should have atleast tried trapping Young right after halfcourt (like they did with Lavine) and break their rhythm. Yeah they might make a basket or 2 but like Nate did, rather see someone else beat us than the star player (Lavine/Trae).

This is like how many times Billy has been outcoached by the other team???? His rotations are also in question many times than not. If anything I rather put defensive players next to Lavine and Vuc and go from there. Coby and Lauri might score a few but they will give up a TON on the other end so what is the point???

What people don't seem to understand is that Vuc in particular NEEDS offensive players around him. He's not a guy who just creates points out of thin air.

He needs spacing. He needs movement (with the D having to pay attention to several dangerous scorers at once).

This notion that all you have to do is surround Zach and Vuc with Kris Dunn types is ridiculous.

Ideally, we'd surround them with players who are both good/great scorers AND defenders. But in the NBA, those people tend to be called stars. And they're f**king expensive.

Zach and Vuc are both 2nd bananas. You don't "surround" these guys with players whose only job is to fill the holes in their games. The holes are just too big.

You beat me to it. This whole idea that let WineCola play offense for 35+ mins. a game, surround them with 3 stone-handed defenders and you're good to go? Absurd. But since many thought in PG Lavine's 50 points should've been enough, he didn't have help, so I guess many buy that idea...

[coldfish]

I watched the game last night but haven't had a chance to post.

I have defended BD frequently this year. At times, I have said that his in game coaching has not been conducive to winning but I get it if he is trying to use this as a teaching year. With the trade, its obvious that winning is the priority and as such the emperor might not have clothing.

There are a few basic things you should do as a coach trying to win a game:
- When the other team knows your defense and is blatantly exploiting a flaw (the drop D on PnR), you have to change it up. Hell, telling defenders to go under the pick would have been better than what happened last night. Atlanta knew exactly where every defender would be and was creating a mini 2 on 1 break against the big man defender. If the guy went to the ball handler, it was a lob. If he stood back, they took a 5 footer. It was murderous.

- No one should ever get away with trapping a ballhandler with multiple defenders at half court. That stuff gets snuffed out when gets get around 11 years old. The play is simple. Your biggest guy runs to the top of the key, catches a pass off the trap and starts a mini break. If the team doesn't execute that play immediately, you call a timeout and disabuse them of any other notion.

I won't even get into some of the personnel decisions. Purely from a tactical standpoint, BD got owned last night which is not the first time it has happened this year. He seems to have absolutely no plan B and has not practiced against traps, zones or other simplistic defenses.

This is really not good. While he may sound better than Boylen when being interviewed, I'm really starting to wonder about him.

[MrSparkle]

You guys are reminding me of the Pau Gasol season. It was never a Thibs issue; it was personnel. Sometimes (well, often in the Bulls' case) there just isn't a combination on your roster that's going to accomplish everything you want (score baskets efficiently and stop star scorers).

Donovan is the first coach since Thibodeau who coaches to maximize his personnel. He had 4 wildly different rosters in OKC and each one had a top-10 defense each year. He's got a 5-year track record.

Late news: this roster was hilariously bad until Mar. 25th. Now, it's got some good parts, but it's still not equipped to defend elite offensive stars. Yeah we've lost some games in a frustrating way since then... but we got lit up by Trae, Booker, Curry and the Jazz. All whilst Coby and Lauri verge on playing for Cam Payne QO offers instead of 7th pick extensions.

There are 4 seasoned defenders on this team: Sato, Theis, Thad and Temple. Thad is now playing out of his strong defensive position (C), so you can strike him off the list; he's volatile defending forwards. Temple is out. That leaves Sato and Theis, and the pair combined for 1 made FG in last game. Patrick is of course a capable defender, but very on and off.

Was it a frustrating loss? Sure. But this whole thread just seems to be a distraction. The depth chart is still a mess; who wants 4 big men (who should arguably play full-time center) in their rotation? This is a coach who played small at PF and a defensive anchor. There are going to have be off-season moves. Until then, there are going to be games where posting up at 3 positions works (basically lotto teams), games where Coby and Lauri play like hot trash... but I guarantee that until a crew of two-way wing-forwards is brought in, this defense is going to be real swiss-cheese. It's the same thing I've been saying for years. Without elite 3D wings, you're pretty much at the mercy of the other team's shooting ability (and luck, on the given night). Only combinations of the Iguodalas, Butlers, Crowders, Mikals, Thybulles, Greens, Kawhis, etc. can suffocate playmakers.

Everyone keeps pointing out Boylen's defensive success with "this roster." I remember a brief stretch where Dunn and Wendell would start together and indeed combine for a strong defensive. For about 20 mpg. And guess what? We're all glad they're gone, because being able to stay healthy, make an open jump-shot, and catch a ball go a long way.

On the bright side, you've got a pair capable of scoring 75 points. I'm not counting on Temple, but if he comes back to shore up SF, he'd be a minor boost. Theis needs to play more than Lauri. Coby and Lauri need to make baskets.

[MrSparkle]

I watched the game last night but haven't had a chance to post.

I have defended BD frequently this year. At times, I have said that his in game coaching has not been conducive to winning but I get it if he is trying to use this as a teaching year. With the trade, its obvious that winning is the priority and as such the emperor might not have clothing.

There are a few basic things you should do as a coach trying to win a game:
- When the other team knows your defense and is blatantly exploiting a flaw (the drop D on PnR), you have to change it up. Hell, telling defenders to go under the pick would have been better than what happened last night. Atlanta knew exactly where every defender would be and was creating a mini 2 on 1 break against the big man defender. If the guy went to the ball handler, it was a lob. If he stood back, they took a 5 footer. It was murderous.

- No one should ever get away with trapping a ballhandler with multiple defenders at half court. That stuff gets snuffed out when gets get around 11 years old. The play is simple. Your biggest guy runs to the top of the key, catches a pass off the trap and starts a mini break. If the team doesn't execute that play immediately, you call a timeout and disabuse them of any other notion.

I won't even get into some of the personnel decisions. Purely from a tactical standpoint, BD got owned last night which is not the first time it has happened this year. He seems to have absolutely no plan B and has not practiced against traps, zones or other simplistic defenses.

This is really not good. While he may sound better than Boylen when being interviewed, I'm really starting to wonder about him.

Ok - but don't you think this has something to do with Vucevic/Lauri/Zach/Coby on the defensive end, and Trae/Gallinari/Bogdanovic on the other? It's a complete recipe for a PnR nightmare.

I re-watched the highlights of the 2nd half, and pretty much every bucket was either Zach/Coby reaching into no man's land and giving up way too much space on the screen; Lauri or Vuc being way late on their challenges; Lauri getting beat in iso very blatantly. And in the end, when his shot is on, Trae is simply the most electric offensive PG in the league. He's got as crafty if not better vision than Curry, Irving and Lillard.

It's just a very easy combination of players to exploit on the defensive end. I really don't know what scheme he can make, short of icing Lauri and Coby for the rest of the season and introducing Javonte and Troy into full-time roles, and the potential expense of losing about 25 ppg and probably hampering the offense due to spacing.

The real tragedy is not having a PG who can exploit Trae (on his defensive end).

[coldfish]

I watched the game last night but haven't had a chance to post.

I have defended BD frequently this year. At times, I have said that his in game coaching has not been conducive to winning but I get it if he is trying to use this as a teaching year. With the trade, its obvious that winning is the priority and as such the emperor might not have clothing.

There are a few basic things you should do as a coach trying to win a game:
- When the other team knows your defense and is blatantly exploiting a flaw (the drop D on PnR), you have to change it up. Hell, telling defenders to go under the pick would have been better than what happened last night. Atlanta knew exactly where every defender would be and was creating a mini 2 on 1 break against the big man defender. If the guy went to the ball handler, it was a lob. If he stood back, they took a 5 footer. It was murderous.

- No one should ever get away with trapping a ballhandler with multiple defenders at half court. That stuff gets snuffed out when gets get around 11 years old. The play is simple. Your biggest guy runs to the top of the key, catches a pass off the trap and starts a mini break. If the team doesn't execute that play immediately, you call a timeout and disabuse them of any other notion.

I won't even get into some of the personnel decisions. Purely from a tactical standpoint, BD got owned last night which is not the first time it has happened this year. He seems to have absolutely no plan B and has not practiced against traps, zones or other simplistic defenses.

This is really not good. While he may sound better than Boylen when being interviewed, I'm really starting to wonder about him.

Ok - but don't you think this has something to do with Vucevic/Lauri/Zach/Coby on the defensive end, and Trae/Gallinari/Bogdanovic on the other? It's a complete recipe for a PnR nightmare.

I re-watched the highlights of the 2nd half, and pretty much every bucket was either Zach/Coby reaching into no man's land and giving up way too much space on the screen; Lauri or Vuc being way late on their challenges; Lauri getting beat in iso very blatantly.

It's just a very easy combination of players to exploit on the defensive end. I really don't know what scheme he can make, short of icing Lauri and Coby for the rest of the season and introducing Javonte and Troy into full-time roles, and the potential expense of losing about 25 ppg and probably hampering the offense due to spacing.

Like I said, go under the pick. Its actually pretty natural for a bad defender as they have to be taught to fight over the top of it. The Bulls could also run a zone, which would complicate the hell out of the reads. Anyone who has played a little ball can run a 2-3 zone.

I separate out the issues with the players from BD. There are always going to be complaints about playing time or this guy not getting enough shots. That's just noise. Just tactically, I have seen virtually no in game or game to game defensive tactical adjustments by the Bulls all year. Its starting to get worrisome. Its one thing if you try a bunch of stuff and none of it works. You can blame the players then. If you don't try anything . . .

[kingkirk]

I watched the game last night but haven't had a chance to post.

I have defended BD frequently this year. At times, I have said that his in game coaching has not been conducive to winning but I get it if he is trying to use this as a teaching year. With the trade, its obvious that winning is the priority and as such the emperor might not have clothing.

There are a few basic things you should do as a coach trying to win a game:
- When the other team knows your defense and is blatantly exploiting a flaw (the drop D on PnR), you have to change it up. Hell, telling defenders to go under the pick would have been better than what happened last night. Atlanta knew exactly where every defender would be and was creating a mini 2 on 1 break against the big man defender. If the guy went to the ball handler, it was a lob. If he stood back, they took a 5 footer. It was murderous.

- No one should ever get away with trapping a ballhandler with multiple defenders at half court. That stuff gets snuffed out when gets get around 11 years old. The play is simple. Your biggest guy runs to the top of the key, catches a pass off the trap and starts a mini break. If the team doesn't execute that play immediately, you call a timeout and disabuse them of any other notion.

I won't even get into some of the personnel decisions. Purely from a tactical standpoint, BD got owned last night which is not the first time it has happened this year. He seems to have absolutely no plan B and has not practiced against traps, zones or other simplistic defenses.

This is really not good. While he may sound better than Boylen when being interviewed, I'm really starting to wonder about him.

On the bold, the really concerning thing about this is the Bulls have been fantastic in generating offense on the short roll this season.

The Hawks were sending Thad Young's man (Soloman Hill) to double Zach as soon as he crossed halfcourt.

Despite this, Young barely plays down the stretch, instead Donovan goes to a Vucevic-Markkanen pairing, one that has absolutely no chance of stopping a Trae PNR, something that was killing the Bulls all game, and continued so as he had Coby in the game, too.

This was a really bad coaching performance from Donovan.

McMillian reacted and adjusted, Donovan didn't.

[TSS]

Like Coldfish I also have serious doubt about the coaching. I don't think this PnR issue is about the personnel. The whole scheme is flawed - at least the way Bulls execute it. For drop coverage to work it cannot be only a scheme of the two defenders in that particular PnR. There has to be help coming from other positions to counter the 2 on 1 on the big defender - Bulls never have.

Only other options are you have a perimeter defender that is able to beat the screen more often that not - and these guys are not many, if they exist at all. And most certainly they do not exist in Bulls roster.
Or you could have 8 foot Lavine playing the big spot who would be tall and agile enough to cover both the pg and the rolling big.

PnR is one of the hardest plays in basketball to defend when executed well. It is impossible to take all options away but there is plenty of different things you can do to try and make it harder. Big can aggressively hedge, we can switch screen, we can continue with drop coverage but bring help defender to take away the roll and let the big actually cover the pg shot and rotate the next guy for that corner dude. We can go to zone as Coldfish mentioned.

My problem is that we have played more than half of the season and when Bulls pick their poison, they continue to go to that 10 gallon tank which says "certain death" time after time. It is almost like Bulls only try to win the game on one end of the floor.

[MrSparkle]

I watched the game last night but haven't had a chance to post.

I have defended BD frequently this year. At times, I have said that his in game coaching has not been conducive to winning but I get it if he is trying to use this as a teaching year. With the trade, its obvious that winning is the priority and as such the emperor might not have clothing.

There are a few basic things you should do as a coach trying to win a game:
- When the other team knows your defense and is blatantly exploiting a flaw (the drop D on PnR), you have to change it up. Hell, telling defenders to go under the pick would have been better than what happened last night. Atlanta knew exactly where every defender would be and was creating a mini 2 on 1 break against the big man defender. If the guy went to the ball handler, it was a lob. If he stood back, they took a 5 footer. It was murderous.

- No one should ever get away with trapping a ballhandler with multiple defenders at half court. That stuff gets snuffed out when gets get around 11 years old. The play is simple. Your biggest guy runs to the top of the key, catches a pass off the trap and starts a mini break. If the team doesn't execute that play immediately, you call a timeout and disabuse them of any other notion.

I won't even get into some of the personnel decisions. Purely from a tactical standpoint, BD got owned last night which is not the first time it has happened this year. He seems to have absolutely no plan B and has not practiced against traps, zones or other simplistic defenses.

This is really not good. While he may sound better than Boylen when being interviewed, I'm really starting to wonder about him.

Ok - but don't you think this has something to do with Vucevic/Lauri/Zach/Coby on the defensive end, and Trae/Gallinari/Bogdanovic on the other? It's a complete recipe for a PnR nightmare.

I re-watched the highlights of the 2nd half, and pretty much every bucket was either Zach/Coby reaching into no man's land and giving up way too much space on the screen; Lauri or Vuc being way late on their challenges; Lauri getting beat in iso very blatantly.

It's just a very easy combination of players to exploit on the defensive end. I really don't know what scheme he can make, short of icing Lauri and Coby for the rest of the season and introducing Javonte and Troy into full-time roles, and the potential expense of losing about 25 ppg and probably hampering the offense due to spacing.

Like I said, go under the pick. Its actually pretty natural for a bad defender as they have to be taught to fight over the top of it. The Bulls could also run a zone, which would complicate the hell out of the reads. Anyone who has played a little ball can run a 2-3 zone.

I separate out the issues with the players from BD. There are always going to be complaints about playing time or this guy not getting enough shots. That's just noise. Just tactically, I have seen virtually no in game or game to game defensive tactical adjustments by the Bulls all year. Its starting to get worrisome. Its one thing if you try a bunch of stuff and none of it works. You can blame the players then. If you don't try anything . . .

I'm honestly not sure what's a better way to treat the pick. All I know is that most of what I see from the good, well-run teams, i.e. Lakers and Spurs, is they fight over the pick. But it's different when you have guys like Caruso, Green and Howard dropping.

But I'm having a hard time imagining this team running the 2-3 zone, especially against line-up combinations featuring Trae, Gallo, Bogdan, Lou W. and Huerter. Do we really want to see our t-rex plodders recovering to the 3P line against those guys? The only thing the Bulls defense had going for it, was that these 3P snipers combined for a 26% 3P night.

These aren't the Hawks of last year. 8:50 just about sums up the outcome of alternate coverage:

Watch on YouTube

[MrSparkle]

I will agree that a few of those big blown leads could've been won with some Nick Nurse 'bag of tricks' coaching.

He'd probably also get thrown out of several games, out of sheer frustration with his farm players and the referees. And our record would still be 22-29, if not 21-32 ala the Raptors.

It'd be neat to see Patrick, Coby and Lauri under a year of Thibodeau regimen. Curious if the latter two would sink or swim.

But let's be honest; if you replaced them with Royce O'Neale, Cameron Payne and Crowder ... we'd probably have a noticeable better record. The Bulls farm (not even including the guys traded out), they've drifted between complete incompetence to brief stretches of hope. PW very often has 1 bad half to match every good one.

So again, the idea has to be for Patrick (hopefully) to develop a lot over the off-season, and replacements for the other two. Then I'll be more harsh on defensive schemes and blowing games we held considerable leads.

[coldfish]

Ok - but don't you think this has something to do with Vucevic/Lauri/Zach/Coby on the defensive end, and Trae/Gallinari/Bogdanovic on the other? It's a complete recipe for a PnR nightmare.

I re-watched the highlights of the 2nd half, and pretty much every bucket was either Zach/Coby reaching into no man's land and giving up way too much space on the screen; Lauri or Vuc being way late on their challenges; Lauri getting beat in iso very blatantly.

It's just a very easy combination of players to exploit on the defensive end. I really don't know what scheme he can make, short of icing Lauri and Coby for the rest of the season and introducing Javonte and Troy into full-time roles, and the potential expense of losing about 25 ppg and probably hampering the offense due to spacing.

Like I said, go under the pick. Its actually pretty natural for a bad defender as they have to be taught to fight over the top of it. The Bulls could also run a zone, which would complicate the hell out of the reads. Anyone who has played a little ball can run a 2-3 zone.

I separate out the issues with the players from BD. There are always going to be complaints about playing time or this guy not getting enough shots. That's just noise. Just tactically, I have seen virtually no in game or game to game defensive tactical adjustments by the Bulls all year. Its starting to get worrisome. Its one thing if you try a bunch of stuff and none of it works. You can blame the players then. If you don't try anything . . .

I'm honestly not sure what's a better way to treat the pick. All I know is that most of what I see from the good, well-run teams, i.e. Lakers and Spurs, is they fight over the pick. But it's different when you have guys like Caruso, Green and Howard dropping.

But I'm having a hard time imagining this team running the 2-3 zone, especially against line-up combinations featuring Trae, Gallo, Bogdan, Lou W. and Huerter. Do we really want to see our t-rex plodders recovering to the 3P line against those guys? The only thing the Bulls defense had going for it, was that these 3P snipers combined for a 26% 3P night.

These aren't the Hawks of last year. 8:50 just about sums up the outcome of alternate coverage:

Watch on YouTube

I'm trying to come up with an analogy.

The changeup in baseball is probably the easiest pitch to hit out of the park. You are intentionally throwing it slower, with not a lot of movement, down the middle of the plate. It works quite frequently and lots of pitchers use it because when its not expected, the hitter doesn't adjust quick enough.

A zone defense should be used as a changeup, not as a base defense. Same as going under the pick and maybe even blitzing the ball handler.

The fact that the Hawks knew the defense was giving them a massive advantage. Switching things around is a pretty fundamental coaching tactic.

Would BD benefit from better defenders? Of course. There are things that are within his control that can help things though.

That gets to another criticism. OK, the first 30 thousand times Coby and others see a pick can be thought of as a learning experience. That said, if you are developing them at some point you should see them jump up on picks and get in front of ball handlers. Even if its inconsistently. Either the Bulls have some of the dumbest human beings on the planet or the Bulls aren't teaching too well.

[kingkirk]

After watching back every PNR possession from the Hawks, something further to which I thought was really good from McMillan — and maybe they already do this to get Trae open against any opponent — but they set a lot of double screens, some of which were out quite high.

Against a drop defense, and specifically against the Bulls who have someone like Coby, who just might be in the bottom five percentile of defenders and IQ players, stuff like that is going to murder a drop coverage.

The Bulls can’t switch to a more aggressive scheme because Vucevic can’t play that way. And we’ve also seen this team get owned the minute the defense gets in rotation, something that is far more likely to happen in a more aggressive scheme.

Donovan is running because, frankly, it’s probably the easiest and most basic PNR coverage, but some of these guys can’t even get that right.

Donovan deserves criticism of his rotations and lineups, but some of this stuff on defense really comes back to the players, and specifically those who were drafted at No. 7 in recent drafts...

[Wingy]

There are 4 seasoned defenders on this team: Sato, Theis, Thad and Temple. Thad is now playing out of his strong defensive position (C), so you can strike him off the list; he's volatile defending forwards. Temple is out. That leaves Sato and Theis, and the pair combined for 1 made FG in last game. Patrick is of course a capable defender, but very on and off.

...

Theis needs to play more than Lauri.

Agree that personnel is always going to be a limiting factor on this particular squad. However, I feel like you’re giving Billy a giant free pass for it.

One of the main premises of your post is that Billy’s maximizing said personnel. You then highlight how Thad’s defensive effectiveness has been cut down playing away from the C spot. With Vuc here, I think it’s also fair to say Thad gets to “hub” it less often with the ball in Vuc’s hands so often. It seems like this was going to be a fairly obvious result of the Thad/Vuc pairing, but that’s what BD went with...closer to minimizing the guy who had been our 2nd most effective player up until the trade. Of course it’s not just about Thad, but starting Theis or Lauri each has its own independent merits.

You also noted Theis should play more, and BD barely played him last game. In a game where we’re getting absolutely shredded in the paint, he sits his best overall big man defender and rim protector the entire 3rd quarter. The scoreboard flipped 15 points before Theis got another run to start the 4th. It was too late by then, with the momentum completely shifted.

Despite the fact that I absolutely can’t stand him, it would’ve made sense to give Val a try once Zach started getting trapped, and it was clear everyone else went into a turtle shell. Billy (sadly) let Val lead lineups in multiple games during the west coast swing, so not sure why he wouldn’t give him a shot to even play in what’s theoretically a good situation for his skill set - at an advantage after a pass out from the trap.

These are just a few examples where I don’t see Billy maximizing what we have. He didn’t adjust tactically - that’s been spelled out a lot by others. Then if he wasn’t going to do that - he also failed to try different combos of players whose strengths might mitigate our ineffectiveness.

We do have weaknesses that even the best coaching won’t mask in the long haul, but he coached horribly that game, plain and simple.

[Ice Man]

Just tactically, I have seen virtually no in game or game to game defensive tactical adjustments by the Bulls all year. Its starting to get worrisome. Its one thing if you try a bunch of stuff and none of it works. You can blame the players then. If you don't try anything . . .

You haven't seen it because Billy hasn't done it. Ever. I guess I could defend BD if the Bulls make the playoffs and all of a sudden he's throwing out successful innovations. I would then say "Well Billy chooses to keep his tactical powder dry during the regular season, this costs us a couple of games but makes us more dangerous in the playoffs, because everything he does is a surprise." Until then, though, my suspicion is that he's simply not good at making adjustments.

[MrSparkle]

There are 4 seasoned defenders on this team: Sato, Theis, Thad and Temple. Thad is now playing out of his strong defensive position (C), so you can strike him off the list; he's volatile defending forwards. Temple is out. That leaves Sato and Theis, and the pair combined for 1 made FG in last game. Patrick is of course a capable defender, but very on and off.

...

Theis needs to play more than Lauri.

Agree that personnel is always going to be a limiting factor on this particular squad. However, I feel like you’re giving Billy a giant free pass for it.

One of the main premises of your post is that Billy’s maximizing said personnel. You then highlight how Thad’s defensive effectiveness has been cut down playing away from the C spot. With Vuc here, I think it’s also fair to say Thad gets to “hub” it less often with the ball in Vuc’s hands so often. It seems like this was going to be a fairly obvious result of the Thad/Vuc pairing, but that’s what BD went with...closer to minimizing the guy who had been our 2nd most effective player up until the trade. Of course it’s not just about Thad, but starting Theis or Lauri each has its own independent merits.

You also noted Theis should play more, and BD barely played him last game. In a game where we’re getting absolutely shredded in the paint, he sits his best overall big man defender and rim protector the entire 3rd quarter. The scoreboard flipped 15 points before Theis got another run to start the 4th. It was too late by then, with the momentum completely shifted.

Despite the fact that I absolutely can’t stand him, it would’ve made sense to give Val a try once Zach started getting trapped, and it was clear everyone else went into a turtle shell. Billy (sadly) let Val lead lineups in multiple games during the west coast swing, so not sure why he wouldn’t give him a shot to even play in what’s theoretically a good situation for his skill set - at an advantage after a pass out from the trap.

These are just a few examples where I don’t see Billy maximizing what we have. He didn’t adjust tactically - that’s been spelled out a lot by others. Then if he wasn’t going to do that - he also failed to try different combos of players whose strengths might mitigate our ineffectiveness.

We do have weaknesses that even the best coaching won’t mask in the long haul, but he coached horribly that game, plain and simple.

Well, he sure hasn’t maximized this personnel... but it has been less than 10 games, with a mostly upward trend. Last night was probably the worst game since the GS game, and Bulls did control the lead until the bottom of the 4th. The whole game seemed like an outlier, as Zach got hot and everybody else besides Vuc decided to take the night off.

I’m not sure why Theis played 11 min., though. I imagined it had something to do with missing the TOR game, or practice. Just makes no sense otherwise; he’s been a 25 mpg guy, and Lauri was playing as badly as he could.

[MGB8]

My bigger concern with Billy right now is rotations.

The Bull are in a highly compressed stretch right now. We know that fatigue impacts players, especially on back to backs but also when they simply don’t have time to recover.

That means you have to start going pretty deep into a rotation to reduce minutes, especially if you don’t plan on resting players.

But against Atlanta, 2nd night of a back to back, Billy only went 9 deep. No Archi, no Val, no Javonte Green or Aminu. None of those guys are world beaters, but all have their moments. Especially if you have a game where there is a stretch and the normal rotation just isn’t keeping up - using fresh legs to press a bit on defense, run on offense can swing momentum. Not a hockey sub, but maybe two guys mixed in with others to see if that helps.

But even outside those circumstances, you have to adjust to the schedule.

[MGB8]

Just tactically, I have seen virtually no in game or game to game defensive tactical adjustments by the Bulls all year. Its starting to get worrisome. Its one thing if you try a bunch of stuff and none of it works. You can blame the players then. If you don't try anything . . .

You haven't seen it because Billy hasn't done it. Ever. I guess I could defend BD if the Bulls make the playoffs and all of a sudden he's throwing out successful innovations. I would then say "Well Billy chooses to keep his tactical powder dry during the regular season, this costs us a couple of games but makes us more dangerous in the playoffs, because everything he does is a surprise." Until then, though, my suspicion is that he's simply not good at making adjustments.

There are other, fairly experienced, folks on the coaching staff, though. It may be a philosophy thing.

[coldfish]

Just tactically, I have seen virtually no in game or game to game defensive tactical adjustments by the Bulls all year. Its starting to get worrisome. Its one thing if you try a bunch of stuff and none of it works. You can blame the players then. If you don't try anything . . .

You haven't seen it because Billy hasn't done it. Ever. I guess I could defend BD if the Bulls make the playoffs and all of a sudden he's throwing out successful innovations. I would then say "Well Billy chooses to keep his tactical powder dry during the regular season, this costs us a couple of games but makes us more dangerous in the playoffs, because everything he does is a surprise." Until then, though, my suspicion is that he's simply not good at making adjustments.

There are other, fairly experienced, folks on the coaching staff, though. It may be a philosophy thing.

That's the general impression I get. Really, really low end coaches know different ways to defend the pick and roll or can coach a zone defense. Its not like BD is unaware of these things. He has made the decision not to vary his defensive scheme at all, which has to be a philosophical thing.

I don't agree with it but I'd love to hear his rationale.

[MrSparkle]

Like I said, go under the pick. Its actually pretty natural for a bad defender as they have to be taught to fight over the top of it. The Bulls could also run a zone, which would complicate the hell out of the reads. Anyone who has played a little ball can run a 2-3 zone.

I separate out the issues with the players from BD. There are always going to be complaints about playing time or this guy not getting enough shots. That's just noise. Just tactically, I have seen virtually no in game or game to game defensive tactical adjustments by the Bulls all year. Its starting to get worrisome. Its one thing if you try a bunch of stuff and none of it works. You can blame the players then. If you don't try anything . . .

I'm honestly not sure what's a better way to treat the pick. All I know is that most of what I see from the good, well-run teams, i.e. Lakers and Spurs, is they fight over the pick. But it's different when you have guys like Caruso, Green and Howard dropping.

But I'm having a hard time imagining this team running the 2-3 zone, especially against line-up combinations featuring Trae, Gallo, Bogdan, Lou W. and Huerter. Do we really want to see our t-rex plodders recovering to the 3P line against those guys? The only thing the Bulls defense had going for it, was that these 3P snipers combined for a 26% 3P night.

These aren't the Hawks of last year. 8:50 just about sums up the outcome of alternate coverage:

Watch on YouTube

I'm trying to come up with an analogy.

The changeup in baseball is probably the easiest pitch to hit out of the park. You are intentionally throwing it slower, with not a lot of movement, down the middle of the plate. It works quite frequently and lots of pitchers use it because when its not expected, the hitter doesn't adjust quick enough.

A zone defense should be used as a changeup, not as a base defense. Same as going under the pick and maybe even blitzing the ball handler.

The fact that the Hawks knew the defense was giving them a massive advantage. Switching things around is a pretty fundamental coaching tactic.

Would BD benefit from better defenders? Of course. There are things that are within his control that can help things though.

That gets to another criticism. OK, the first 30 thousand times Coby and others see a pick can be thought of as a learning experience. That said, if you are developing them at some point you should see them jump up on picks and get in front of ball handlers. Even if its inconsistently. Either the Bulls have some of the dumbest human beings on the planet or the Bulls aren't teaching too well.

That’s fair. If it happens in a playoff series and we lose, I’ll agree.

I don’t think they’re the dumbest humans, but Coby and Lauri do make me wonder. They seem to have the awareness and reaction time of a child at the playground. Their inability to read the court on and off-the-ball is basically as bad as the worst players’ we’ve had in the last 7 years; and we’ve had a lot. The only difference is they have shooting skill, and it seems they genuinely “want” to improve and do the right thing (whereas guys like Marquis, Felicio, Jerian, Snell didn’t really express a desire to compete).

IMO it just comes back to them thinking they’re better than they are. Coby is Anfernee Simons, a 24th pick. Lauri is Simonovic, a 2nd round pick.

When I see Theis alongside Lauri, it is eye-opening seeing two guys with similar profiles and athleticism. It’s like watching a landscaping company and Chicago union construction work at the same time. Lauri sure takes his time patching that pot-hole. Theis is actually working.

Coby on the other hand has energy, but he’s like a little pinball completely out of control. The amount of times he eagerly jumps *way* out of position on defense is comical.

And I get it - Billy doesn’t have to play them. But I don’t like the idea of icing 7 picks on rookie salaries who need(ed) to be developed, evaluated and traded or resigned to an accurate deal. But they do provide 30 ppg on nights their shots fall. And they will improve over the years. But I do see the end coming for both in CHI, unless their trade market is totally dead.

And the defense ought to dramatically improve once their rotation minutes are replaced next year.