Bulls net ratings

[CobyWhite0]

I think becoming a playoff should first goal. We most likely aren’t going from bottom to contender by hoping lottery Gods favor us. We become a respectable playoff team without accumulating a bunch bad contracts the next step is to poach another team’s star in free agency or trade. I think that is possible. That’s how works in the NBA now unfortunately. Waiting around 3 or 4 for players that aren’t on team yet plus Williams to make us respectable sounds like Hell. All young teams do is lose. That isn’t what AK did in Denver so hopefully he doesn’t do it here.

How are you going to get the star? They're pairing up. Lavine is not the level of star who is going to attract a superstar?

I don't know. I mean he's a top 10 scorer and not a douchebag. Plus we're a big market. I could see that being a draw for someone. He has a personal relationship with KAT, so that could be something eventually. I actually think our best bet is to market him as a guy you'd want to team-up with. Perhaps getting into the All-Star game will help sell that.

I forgot the rest of your post lol. What about KAT for WCJ, Lauri, Thad and 2021-23-25 picks? (Though I think you send out Felicio - Hutch - Arch/Kornet instead of Thad, trade still works)

https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2021/02/13/nba-rumors-chicago-bulls-minnesota-timberwolves-trade-karl-anthony-towns

This Bulls-Timberwolves trade is centered around Karl-Anthony Towns

The Chicago Bulls have been near the bottom of the Eastern Conference for years now. This forced them to make a change at head coach and Billy Donovan was selected as the next man for the job. There could be plenty of other changes on the move and it could be sending away either Lauri Markkanen or Zach LaVine.

The Bulls have added some talent in the draft over the years in the form of Coby White and Patrick Williams. They will be around for the long run and now it is up to the front office to decide which star, if either, they are going to keep.

If Zach LaVine is the one, then it would make sense to add another impact big. That is exactly what Karl-Anthony Towns is. He is now in his sixth season in the league. Towns is averaging 22.6 points and 11.7 rebounds over the course of his career. He is a 39.7% career three-point shooter as well.

Karl-Anthony Towns is a big man who can stretch the floor on the offensive end. Lauri Markannen is the same type of player but not on the same level. Towns could be that other star that the Bulls need to speed up the rebuilding process. It would not be a small return but Chicago would benefit greatly from teaming LaVine with Towns.

[TheFinishSniper]

Wolves will never accept that trade. No matter how many picks unprotected we offer.

[WindyCityBorn]

Wolves will never accept that trade. No matter how many picks unprotected we offer.

Why? Based on some of the takes here if they were smart they should trade Towns and live in the lottery forever.

[TheFinishSniper]

Wolves will never accept that trade. No matter how many picks unprotected we offer.

Why? Based on some of the takes here if they were smart they should trade Towns and live in the lottery forever.

Wolves are disaster as franchise. They have no leadership at all. Taking picks is easy but doing anything with them is issue. Franchise like Wolves will turn off any amount of picks for this reason. They are aware how bad they are so rebuild is not on menu.

[CobyWhite0]

I'm not sure MIN can say no to this if Towns wants out:

Bulls - KAT, Rubio, Vanderbilt

Wolves - WCJ, Lauri, Arch, Otto, unprotected 1st in 2021, 2023, 2025. Plus unprotected swap options for 2022 and 2024.

With our current poor record, a few of those unprotected could be very high in the lottery. MIN isn't going to get that from most teams, 5 straight unprotected?

KAT, Thad, Gafford
PWill, Thad, Vanderbilt, KAT
Temple, Val, Sato, PWill, Vanderbilt
LaVine, Coby, Sato
Rubio, Coby, Sato, Lavine

I'll take that to the playoffs if we make that trade tomorrow. Everyone plays at least 2 positions, some 3. Plenty of offense, plenty of 3 and D. Plenty of PG types who can handle most SF on D sometimes.

Eh, I can dream, I"m just a little over-medicated lol

[sco]

I think we waited too long to move Lauri and Wendell. There was a time both were viewed exceedingly favorably around the league, but we all knew their limitations. We may want to consider moving Coby while we can. I don't think his value is nearly as high as Lauri and Wendell's were, but he doesn't strike me as a guy that we couldn't easily replace on the free-agent market. Guy's like Conley, Schroeder, Fournier, Oladipo, Ball, Dinwiddie, etc. can all replace (if not exceed) his production.

Given their injuries last season, it was almost impossible to have moved them. Best case is to hope Lauri comes back and returns to form before the deadline, and get what you can get. Carter may not need to be moved because he's probably more realistic about his market value, and might be extendable in the 5/$50 million range, which is a deal I'd do. Otherwise, we just sign a FA C in the offseason.

[TheStig]

I think becoming a playoff should first goal. We most likely aren’t going from bottom to contender by hoping lottery Gods favor us. We become a respectable playoff team without accumulating a bunch bad contracts the next step is to poach another team’s star in free agency or trade. I think that is possible. That’s how works in the NBA now unfortunately. Waiting around 3 or 4 for players that aren’t on team yet plus Williams to make us respectable sounds like Hell. All young teams do is lose. That isn’t what AK did in Denver so hopefully he doesn’t do it here.

How are you going to get the star? They're pairing up. Lavine is not the level of star who is going to attract a superstar.

I just don't think the base is good enough. I think Lavine is a really good player but when you're paying him 40 mill a year, you're on the clock and we've got nothing going on. It sucks to start over again but there is a reason GarPax are out.

The assets are really bare on this team outside of Lavine, our 1st and whatever Pwill is worth. You got to move Lavine, maximize our picks the next couple of years and restock the cuppard with what you get for Lavine. That would be my move. With the crazy offers of multiple 1st, swaps and some young guy, I think you can get a good haul from a desperate team. I consider Lavine up their with Holiday and look what he got.

Like Homosapien mentioned his status is rising. He and KAT are close and Beal gave him high praise after we last played plus he has ties to Donovan. I think we should try be respectable team again without overspending before resorting to the somewhat lazy and generally failing tank approach, but if you disagree that’s fine. We have been trying tank since Jordan retired and hasn’t worked. It took 1.7 when weren’t trying to lose to make legit contender again. And again Denver did not build their team tanking. I think AK was brought here to build a team without being trash like that.

Oh great, you pick the one star I absolutely dislike. I couldn't watch the Bulls with that primadonna. He doesn't care, doesn't care to play D and disappeared against the Rockets in the playoffs. Capella absolutely destroyed him on both ends. He's the most overrated star in the league. Sorry about the rant.

I think that Zach is a really good player. But the rest of the team is not respectable. You're going to have late lotto or late teens picks with Zach here and going to have to result to signing or trading for vets to make a playoff push. That is exactly what GarPax did and failed at. And we're trying to do it with their crumbling core of Coby, Lauri and Carter.

I also don't think we've tanked since MJ. We tanked at first with Krause and hit bad luck. A couple of bad drafts and Jwill's accident. These past couple of years, they were signing vets and trying get the team in the playoffs and failing. They weren't tanking. They legit thought they could make the playoffs.

Time to start fresh and let the GM do his thing. I feel they have to start fresh. And Zach will give us a jump start. Getting rid of him will allow us to maximize our pick and bring in some good picks or young players. Let's face it, the cuppard is empty outside of Lavine, our 1st this year (meh pick at the moment) and whatever Pwill will be.

[TheStig]

Wolves will never accept that trade. No matter how many picks unprotected we offer.

Why? Based on some of the takes here if they were smart they should trade Towns and live in the lottery forever.

Why do they need to trade Towns to live in the lottery forever? Since they've had him they've drafted 1, 11, 20 (jimmy year), 7 and 5. And they're sitting at the worst record in the league. He's doing a fine job of making sure his stats look nice and having no impact on winning games.

[TheStig]

I think becoming a playoff should first goal. We most likely aren’t going from bottom to contender by hoping lottery Gods favor us. We become a respectable playoff team without accumulating a bunch bad contracts the next step is to poach another team’s star in free agency or trade. I think that is possible. That’s how works in the NBA now unfortunately. Waiting around 3 or 4 for players that aren’t on team yet plus Williams to make us respectable sounds like Hell. All young teams do is lose. That isn’t what AK did in Denver so hopefully he doesn’t do it here.

How are you going to get the star? They're pairing up. Lavine is not the level of star who is going to attract a superstar?

I don't know. I mean he's a top 10 scorer and not a douchebag. Plus we're a big market. I could see that being a draw for someone. He has a personal relationship with KAT, so that could be something eventually. I actually think our best bet is to market him as a guy you'd want to team-up with. Perhaps getting into the All-Star game will help sell that.

HS, that's a great plan. Then after next year, when he's tired of losing, he can go sign somewhere else with another star!

I know every NBA star dreams of playing in the freezing cold and having a great young center like Carter as their 3rd piece.

I think this team needs a complete rebuild. There are no real assets outside of Lavine, our currently middling 1st and whatever Pwill is. How are you going to trade for KAT *vommits in my mouth*? Porter, Carter, Lauri and 2 1sts is easily beat.

[Chi town]

Also, a 40% FG guard with 11.2 PER isn't trade bait whatsoever.

If you're trading for Coby White, you're trading on him based on his potential, not what he currently is. That said, I'm not sure if anyone would be willing to trade anything of note for that potential.

So again, looking forward 2-3 years; do you think Coby is going to stay a nervous ball-handling wreck shooting sub-40%? Do you think a team is going to offer a significant asset for him with these current stats? I say 'no' to both. I think he's worth holding unless some other team wants to overpay for him. If Coby is able to command $15m+ RFA offer in 2 years, that means he improved past his abhorrent shooting %s (for a shooter). And for that guy? Sure, I don't care if he's starting or 6th man, I want him on my team, cause everybody can use a 3P sniper. Especially if he can handle the rock and generate 5 APG too.

I think Jason Terry is a realistic goal for Coby White. Still, for us, I'm also not convinced his peak is going to be worth the 4-5 years of time and investment to get peak Coby White when you can likely get someone who will be comparable in the FA market.

Modern Jason Terry is a great comp for Coby.

Completely agree that the investment is what is most painful. I think what can change that is him moving into a secondary playmaker and more time off ball in C+S. He becomes a better player and helps the team alot more in that role.

[Chi town]

I think what is becoming clear...
- Zach is an elite #1 option on offense and a fringe franchise player due to his lack of D and turnovers... both of which he has improved on. If he continues to improve he is a top 15 player
- Coby needs to be an off ball shooter/scorer... 4th option
- Lauri is an efficient 3rd option and an advantage at the 5... His D, rebounding, and impact isn't worth more than 3rd option money
- Bulls needs 2 way players and a passing playmaker in the worst way
- BillyD is coaching for development not wins. If he was coaching for wins I think we would be above .500 despite all the injuries

[Stratmaster]

I never said he sucked. Not once. But if you need an example of that in the NBA, it's Russell Westbrook.

I believe a Lavine max is 5/190 isn't it? I believe another option would be to extend him at the max (4/150 starting with 2021/22 season)

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LOL, when Russ signed his current deal on 19 Sept 2017, he was coming off an MVP season where he led the league in scoring and PER and Ast% and VORP... and averaged a triple-double just for the hell of it. I'm pretty sure all 30 NBA GMs would have done the same thing, especially considering how healthy he had been until that point in his career.

The problem with Russ - that won't be there with Zach - is that he was was 30 when his current deal started (2018-19), and he'll be 34 when it expires. If we gave Zach a five year deal next summer, he'll only be 27 when he signs it and he'll turn 32 right before it expires. With the way he can shoot, I think it's fairly likely that his game will age much, much better than Westbrook's.

FTR, Zach can't be extended this summer for anything more than 4 years, $94 million (starting after Zach expires next summer, 2022). We could, theoretically, use cap space this summer and renegotiate his salary and give him a huge raise starting next season (the "why Pippen couldn't renegotiate rule). But we all know that's not happening.

So... there is an option to sign him for 4 years 150mil using cap space. Correct?

I never said anything about Westbrook. Or his age.

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[Stratmaster]

I never said he sucked. Not once. But if you need an example of that in the NBA, it's Russell Westbrook.

I believe a Lavine max is 5/190 isn't it? I believe another option would be to extend him at the max (4/150 starting with 2021/22 season)

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That is correct for this year but the cap will continue to rise.

Why would he take a 4/150 here? We're not a good team. He's got to be tired of losing and some playoff team will offer him that. If you keep Zach, it's on the 5/200 deal.

Was just curious. Every time I see someone talk about him, the price tag seems to go up 10 million.

What playoff team do you think will offer him 4/150?

My only point was there are other ways the 2 side can work out a deal if both sides want it to happen.

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[Stratmaster]

We can make the moves to become a playoff team. We are real starting PG and couple of other moves away(getting rid of some the players that live on the injured list for guys that can play a full season). It’s not like we aren’t competitive. People will feel pretty bad if he goes to a “good” team and those empty stats become elite stats while we are still digging lotto balls. I hope AK goes ham after this evaluation season starting with the trade deadline.

I think becoming a playoff should first goal. We most likely aren’t going from bottom to contender by hoping lottery Gods favor us. We become a respectable playoff team without accumulating a bunch bad contracts the next step is to poach another team’s star in free agency or trade. I think that is possible. That’s how works in the NBA now unfortunately. Waiting around 3 or 4 for players that aren’t on team yet plus Williams to make us respectable sounds like Hell. All young teams do is lose. That isn’t what AK did in Denver so hopefully he doesn’t do it here.

How are you going to get the star? They're pairing up. Lavine is not the level of star who is going to attract a superstar.

I just don't think the base is good enough. I think Lavine is a really good player but when you're paying him 40 mill a year, you're on the clock and we've got nothing going on. It sucks to start over again but there is a reason GarPax are out.

The assets are really bare on this team outside of Lavine, our 1st and whatever Pwill is worth. You got to move Lavine, maximize our picks the next couple of years and restock the cuppard with what you get for Lavine. That would be my move. With the crazy offers of multiple 1st, swaps and some young guy, I think you can get a good haul from a desperate team. I consider Lavine up their with Holiday and look what he got.

What do you base your claim that Lavine isn't the type of player another star will pair up with on? Other players in the league seem to like him and love his game.

What player in the league has said they don't want to play alongside Lavine?

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[CobyWhite0]

I believe a Lavine max is 5/190 isn't it? I believe another option would be to extend him at the max (4/150 starting with 2021/22 season)

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LOL, when Russ signed his current deal on 19 Sept 2017, he was coming off an MVP season where he led the league in scoring and PER and Ast% and VORP... and averaged a triple-double just for the hell of it. I'm pretty sure all 30 NBA GMs would have done the same thing, especially considering how healthy he had been until that point in his career.

The problem with Russ - that won't be there with Zach - is that he was was 30 when his current deal started (2018-19), and he'll be 34 when it expires. If we gave Zach a five year deal next summer, he'll only be 27 when he signs it and he'll turn 32 right before it expires. With the way he can shoot, I think it's fairly likely that his game will age much, much better than Westbrook's.

FTR, Zach can't be extended this summer for anything more than 4 years, $94 million (starting after Zach expires next summer, 2022). We could, theoretically, use cap space this summer and renegotiate his salary and give him a huge raise starting next season (the "why Pippen couldn't renegotiate rule). But we all know that's not happening.

So... there is an option to sign him for 4 years 150mil using cap space. Correct?

I never said anything about Westbrook. Or his age.

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Yeah we can do 4/150, just not this summer, we'd have to wait until he hits free agency next summer.

And sorry, I know you didn't say anything about Russ, I was replying to TheStig's comment about Westbrook,

"I never said he sucked. Not once. But if you need an example of that in the NBA, it's Russell Westbrook."

Sorry I don't know why his quote didn't show up in my post.

[Stratmaster]

LOL, when Russ signed his current deal on 19 Sept 2017, he was coming off an MVP season where he led the league in scoring and PER and Ast% and VORP... and averaged a triple-double just for the hell of it. I'm pretty sure all 30 NBA GMs would have done the same thing, especially considering how healthy he had been until that point in his career.

The problem with Russ - that won't be there with Zach - is that he was was 30 when his current deal started (2018-19), and he'll be 34 when it expires. If we gave Zach a five year deal next summer, he'll only be 27 when he signs it and he'll turn 32 right before it expires. With the way he can shoot, I think it's fairly likely that his game will age much, much better than Westbrook's.

FTR, Zach can't be extended this summer for anything more than 4 years, $94 million (starting after Zach expires next summer, 2022). We could, theoretically, use cap space this summer and renegotiate his salary and give him a huge raise starting next season (the "why Pippen couldn't renegotiate rule). But we all know that's not happening.

So... there is an option to sign him for 4 years 150mil using cap space. Correct?

I never said anything about Westbrook. Or his age.

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Yeah we can do 4/150, just not this summer, we'd have to wait until he hits free agency next summer.

And sorry, I know you didn't say anything about Russ, I was replying to TheStig's comment about Westbrook,

"I never said he sucked. Not once. But if you need an example of that in the NBA, it's Russell Westbrook."

Sorry I don't know why his quote didn't show up in my post.

No worries. I was just confused too lol

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[TheStig]

I think becoming a playoff should first goal. We most likely aren’t going from bottom to contender by hoping lottery Gods favor us. We become a respectable playoff team without accumulating a bunch bad contracts the next step is to poach another team’s star in free agency or trade. I think that is possible. That’s how works in the NBA now unfortunately. Waiting around 3 or 4 for players that aren’t on team yet plus Williams to make us respectable sounds like Hell. All young teams do is lose. That isn’t what AK did in Denver so hopefully he doesn’t do it here.

How are you going to get the star? They're pairing up. Lavine is not the level of star who is going to attract a superstar.

I just don't think the base is good enough. I think Lavine is a really good player but when you're paying him 40 mill a year, you're on the clock and we've got nothing going on. It sucks to start over again but there is a reason GarPax are out.

The assets are really bare on this team outside of Lavine, our 1st and whatever Pwill is worth. You got to move Lavine, maximize our picks the next couple of years and restock the cuppard with what you get for Lavine. That would be my move. With the crazy offers of multiple 1st, swaps and some young guy, I think you can get a good haul from a desperate team. I consider Lavine up their with Holiday and look what he got.

What do you base your claim that Lavine isn't the type of player another star will pair up with on? Other players in the league seem to like him and love his game.

What player in the league has said they don't want to play alongside Lavine?

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Lavine isn't a superstar. He's not on the Team USA or even all star groups that meet with these guys. When guys team up, it's superstars like Kyrie and KD, Kawhai and PG, Lebron and AD, etc. He's not in that circle.

[TheStig]

So... there is an option to sign him for 4 years 150mil using cap space. Correct?

I never said anything about Westbrook. Or his age.

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Yeah we can do 4/150, just not this summer, we'd have to wait until he hits free agency next summer.

And sorry, I know you didn't say anything about Russ, I was replying to TheStig's comment about Westbrook,

"I never said he sucked. Not once. But if you need an example of that in the NBA, it's Russell Westbrook."

Sorry I don't know why his quote didn't show up in my post.

No worries. I was just confused too lol

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You can offer him anything you'd like..... a min to a max. Doesn't mean he takes it. he will be an unrestricted free agent. When there is a team with max cap space offering him the max, why does he stay here? He's never won anything. Wouldn't you think he'd want to go somewhere he can make the playoffs.

[TheStig]

LOL, when Russ signed his current deal on 19 Sept 2017, he was coming off an MVP season where he led the league in scoring and PER and Ast% and VORP... and averaged a triple-double just for the hell of it. I'm pretty sure all 30 NBA GMs would have done the same thing, especially considering how healthy he had been until that point in his career.

The problem with Russ - that won't be there with Zach - is that he was was 30 when his current deal started (2018-19), and he'll be 34 when it expires. If we gave Zach a five year deal next summer, he'll only be 27 when he signs it and he'll turn 32 right before it expires. With the way he can shoot, I think it's fairly likely that his game will age much, much better than Westbrook's.

FTR, Zach can't be extended this summer for anything more than 4 years, $94 million (starting after Zach expires next summer, 2022). We could, theoretically, use cap space this summer and renegotiate his salary and give him a huge raise starting next season (the "why Pippen couldn't renegotiate rule). But we all know that's not happening.

So... there is an option to sign him for 4 years 150mil using cap space. Correct?

I never said anything about Westbrook. Or his age.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Yeah we can do 4/150, just not this summer, we'd have to wait until he hits free agency next summer.

And sorry, I know you didn't say anything about Russ, I was replying to TheStig's comment about Westbrook,

"I never said he sucked. Not once. But if you need an example of that in the NBA, it's Russell Westbrook."

Sorry I don't know why his quote didn't show up in my post.

Someone had mentioned that you couldn't suck and get 40 mill a year. Westbrook could barely get his team to the playoffs and padded stats. He hasn't suffered any injuries and makes a fortune. He can't play with anyone else. Guys get overpaid.

[WindyCityBorn]

So... there is an option to sign him for 4 years 150mil using cap space. Correct?

I never said anything about Westbrook. Or his age.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

Yeah we can do 4/150, just not this summer, we'd have to wait until he hits free agency next summer.

And sorry, I know you didn't say anything about Russ, I was replying to TheStig's comment about Westbrook,

"I never said he sucked. Not once. But if you need an example of that in the NBA, it's Russell Westbrook."

Sorry I don't know why his quote didn't show up in my post.

Someone had mentioned that you couldn't suck and get 40 mill a year. Westbrook could barely get his team to the playoffs and padded stats. He hasn't suffered any injuries and makes a fortune. He can't play with anyone else. Guys get overpaid.

Westbrook has suffered lots injuries. Nothing career altering like Rose, but has had knees surgeries and he is definitely not the athlete he used to be. Not saying that has anything to with stat padding style of play.

Question. Do you think Phoenix regrets giving Booker his contract now?